FairUse (XviD) Oversize problem

[DaMan]

Tried searching for similar problem and came up with Zone (Frame#/Weight/Modifiers) secondary entry such as [1/(16.00)/K] for contributing to huge XviD encodes (2-3GB range). The problem is when I invoke XviD 1st Pass within FU, I tried to both manually removed the secondary entry as well as clicking on Load Defaults button, but it always reappears, hence I think I am ending up with hugh XviD files. I checked my XviD encodes through VirtualDub Mod and it's showing 2500-4000 kbps range everytime, which are not my targeted bitrate.

My desire is only for a simple single pass, 700-800MB target bitrate. With respect to XviD, it does not matter which Profile @ Level I chose, I always get big files in the GB range. This does not hold true however if I were to chose DivX, so what am I doing wrong.

Thanks in advance for any suggestion. By the way, UMP has a private message from me regarding this problem.

-DaMan:(

[DaMan]

FairUse version I was using was 0.34d. I just learned that 0.35 came out and after a short test, I am still getting the same oversize problem. Per VirtualDub on ~4 minutes HK movie clip, I have the following.

Frame size: 464x336, 29.97 fps
Length: 6894 frames
FourCC Code: XviD MPEG4 codec
Key frames: 122
Data rate: 2762 kbps

My FU XviD profile for this test was

XviD Default option: Single Pass/@unrestricted/700MB. Toggling XviD setting back and forth, I am still seeing secondary Zone reappearing no matter what I do.

-DaMan

[Wolfman]

I dont want to call this software a piece of **** BUT it completely tries to automate the video resolution but then allow encodings without audio and oversized. Where are the instructions?? if it wants to be easy to use then it should set up the 1st and 2nd pass automatically. Zones..1st pass.. 2nd pass.. who knows? Its a frickin mystery tour! Come on, only the beta testers were telepathic, not the rest of us.

[UMP]

Originally posted by Wolfman
I dont want to call this software a piece of ****
Well, so don't do it. If you don't like the tool, I'm not the one asking you to use it. I only would expect you to respect people's work. Thanks.

Let's now talk about the oversizing issue. What FU does with each XviD pass :
1. it takes the user set encoding settings from "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FairUse Wizard\Profiles\XviD 1st pass"
2. it creates two zones for easy credits encoding :
Zone0 : Start frame 0, weight 1
Zone1 : Start frame 1, quant 16, Force KeyFrame
These infos are taken from "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FairUse Wizard\Profiles\XviD 1st/2nd pass - Forced"
3. if end credits are set, the credits start frame number is assigned to Zone1 start frame. If no end credits are set, the Zone1 start frame is set to (video frames count + 1).

So DaMan, could you please tell me what's the value in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\GNU\XviD\zone1_frame" after an oversized encoding ?

Thank you,

ump

[Wolfman]

Maybe I was overzealous. But as far as I can see there are no instructions?. Also the email contact on the home webpage is disabled.
Thus unable to contact the author. Also I was using the older version.

[UMP]

I have to acknowledge these is no tutorial yet, at least not in english. The "basic" use is I think trivial, but obviously I'll have to write some kind of detailed instructions.

That said, I did a seach on Doom9 forums with the terms "xvid oversized" and it appears that several (not FU related) threads are mentioning this issue about XivD 1.0 beta 3 (seems to be ok with beta 2 through).

I finally found this :

About use of Packed Bitstream in 2-pass encodings:

If you use that, you will get an oversized file. What I do to avoid that, is to activate packed bitstream only in the second pass.
The fact is that FU has "Packed Bitstream" enabled for both passes.
I never had oversized encodings myself, but it would be very nice if DaMan would agree to test this : disable "Packed Bitstream" from the first pass and post some feedback here.

Thanks,

ump

[DaMan]

First of, great piece of software, I've tried virtually all DVD to AVI software out there and must say FU is top on my list. Reporting bugs is the least I can do to repay development effort goes into wonderful program. With respect to tutorial, there's flash file on the FU's website showing exactly what needs to get done.

Okay, enough drama, let's get to the meat of this problem.

@UMP, the registry value zone1_frame for 1st and 2nd, Forced or not is 1.
By the way, I reverted back to Koepi XviD Build 24062003 to test, same problem. Also, I tried a different DVDtoAVI application with no oversized problem.

I did what you asked but only for 1st pass since I am only interested in a single pass and the problem I am afraid is still there. here's what VirtualDub-Mod reports:

Clip: 2:48 min:sec
Filesize: 60 MB
Pack bitstream: unchecked

Frame size: 464x336, 29.970 fps
Length: 5041 frames
FourCC code XviD MPEG-4 codec
Data rate: 2940 kbps (WOW! where did this bitrate come from?)

Hope this helps UMP,

-DaMan

[UMP]

@UMP, the registry value zone1_frame for 1st and 2nd, Forced or not is 1.It seems you took this value from "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FairUse Wizard\Profiles\...", I was asking for the key "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\GNU\XviD\zone1_frame"

I reverted back to Koepi XviD Build 24062003 to test, same problemTo use the system codec you have to uncheck the "Use internal XviD codec" option.

Cheers,

ump

[DaMan]

Registry value is '332b9'

I have since reinstall XviD 1.0 beta3 and with option use internal xvid unchecked and re-test, VDM still reports 2459 kbps data rate.

Thanks UMP for your prompt attention.

-DaMan

[Koepi]

Originally posted by UMP
I finally found this :


The fact is that FU has "Packed Bitstream" enabled for both passes.
Thanks,

ump

Since XviD-1.0-* packed bitstream is working correctly. It had some troubles in very old dev-api-3 builds.

So that's not the problem.

Regards
Koepi

[GolovachLena]

Originally posted by Koepi
Since XviD-1.0-* packed bitstream is working correctly. It had some troubles in very old dev-api-3 builds.


But, possibly, not every related software does actually know, that Xvid's working correctly with this :) If packed bitstream feature according to your own words is similar or even identical to those that Divx is using, why then ffdshow can't handle properly xvid' movies and surely can divx'?

[Koepi]

Golo:

use the search function, this has been answered gazillion of times: DivX can just use 1 consecutive bframe max. - do the same with xvid and ffdshow decodes it just fine.

...wondering why today I find so many nag questions,

Koepi

[GolovachLena]

Ok, but which solution should i prefer: set 1 consecutive b-frame in Xvid or turn packed bitstream off?

[Koepi]

That's asking for "what's best" (another forum rules violation):

I can't tell you, honestly. You have to test and judge the resulting quality for yourself.

Regards
Koepi

[UMP]

To come back to the oversize issue, here is a test build (http://fairuse.free.fr/Release/private/fu-manual-config.zip) that does not set any codec setting automatically.

So DaMan please give it a try but remember to load the defaults first, then set any desired setting directly in the codec dialog for each pass.

Thank you for your help,

ump

[DaMan]

FU Testing : Manual Config Build.

Frame size: 464x336, Single Pass

Default 700 kbps (XviD) Internal Codec: VDM reports 687kbps - 12 kbps off
Default 700 kbps (XviD) External Codec: VDM reports 658kbps - 42 kbps off
Default 1000kbps (XviD) Internal Codec: VDM reports 996kbps - 04 kbps off
Default 1000kbps (XviD) External Codec: VDM reports 968kbps - 32 kbps off

It's working. Also, I am now able to see Koepi's XviD Status encoding bar graphs which was all a blank gray screen before.

I only tested video and not audio. I would expect a/v sync as with other builds.

I can live with small discrepancy in different data rates between Internal and External codecs as outlined above. Per VDM, it appears using FU Internal codec yields closer to target bitrate. The question is how will the future build of FU address my problem?

For now I am keeping the Manual Config Build.

Thanks UMP for your dedication.

DaMan

[UMP]

Also, I am now able to see Koepi's XviD Status encoding bar graphs which was all a blank gray screen before.While disabling automatic codec setup I could see this issue after hitting "load defaults", so I fixed this too :)

I only tested video and not audio. I would expect a/v sync as with other builds.There should be no issue about a/v sync. The codec configuration doesn't affect this.

The question is how will the future build of FU address my problem?And the answer is : since I can't reproduce this behavious myself, would you agree to do some further testing ? ;)

If so, I'd like you to enable the following options (after loading defaults) and retry the same encoding (of course on the same video) :

Profile@Level : AS @ L5
Adaptive quantization : ON
Max consecutive BVOPs : 1
Trellis quantization : ON

ump

[DaMan]

After the successful short video test, I proceed to full dvd encoding. Came back 4 hours later and saw audio decoding error. I am now left with .avi and .ac3 file. UMP, what programs do you recommend decoding ac3 and mux them together? BeSweet and AviMux? Little worry now regarding a/v sync after the fact.

Regarding further testing...happy to do it. Here's the result of 1 chapter per below profile

Profile@Level : AS @ L5
Adaptive quantization : ON
Max consecutive BVOPs : 1
Trellis quantization : ON
.

I got the same audio error as the last full dvd encode:

The error says 'The DVD could not be converted. Error: unable to transcode the audio', so I am again left with .avi and .ac3.

VDM:
Video frame: 640x464
Data rate: 694 kbps

...Not sure what you would like to see as result of this test.

DaMan

[UMP]

...Not sure what you would like to see as result of this test.I'd like to see what causes FU to generate oversized files in your case. The next step would be to add a zone1 with quant=16, modifier=Keyframe starting at (max range+1), since this is exactly what the regular FU build would do.

What audio settings are you using (MP3 or OGG, how many tracks, what's the bitrate) ?

ump

EDIT : please make sure you copy the Manual Config Build to the FairUse install folder before using it, since some local DLLs are needed for audio conversion. This is the only way I could reproduce the behaviour you describe.

[DaMan]

Hi UMP,

Adding a zone1 with quant=16, modifier=Keyframe starting at max range+1 with the following profile...

Profile@Level : AS @ L5
Adaptive quantization : ON
Max consecutive BVOPs : 1
Trellis quantization : ON

The result is 365 kbps of 1250 kbps target, so no oversized, but way undersized. By the way, disregard my previous post regarding audio decoding error.

Also tried Default Profile with zone 1:

The result is 367 kbps of 700 kbps target, so again way undersized.

Final test with Default Profile without zone 1:

The result is 1237 kbps of 1250 kbps targetl.

Conclusion is something within the zone settings that either an under/over achiever.

If further testing continues till resolution, do you feel we need to take this offline?
It appears I am the only one (quite surprised) who's having this problem and I don't want to take additional Doom9's bandwidth.

Thanks...DaMan

[GolovachLena]

Originally posted by Koepi

I can't tell you, honestly. You have to test and judge the resulting quality for yourself.


Yeah, i've been testing this whole week-end and almost all the time gone to the recyclebin because packed bitstream DOESN'T WORK. Tested on two different sources. At least, doesn't work as i expected. When i set this feature on and set number of b-frames to 1, the resulting movie can't be played correctly even with DivX 5.1.1 decoder - it's jerky and all the things you already know. I could send you a sample if i wasn't sure it's useless.
Have no idea what more i should read to force this f...g feature work properly. Usually i set it off, but it's on by default and i could eventually forget about it. May be you should think twice bout intefrace instead of constant teaching me forum rules :angry:

[Koepi]

Well, use DivX then if XviD doesn't satisfy you at all and you're so hurt in your feelings by a default setting (which isn't even _my_ suggestion - Isibaar himself made that default, so you can be sure it won't be switched off that soon).

It's only a problem for a few people - and those people affected know how to remove a "x" in a dialog control. Others start drawing angry smiles though :P ;)

Koepi

[GolovachLena]

If a non-working, obviously buggy default feature is a problem just for few people i could easily take my words back and not bother you anymore, thanks for the rest.