AR and Kiss Players... again...

[len0x]

It's a known fact that Kiss players cannot properly display DivX/XviD videos which are playing fine on PC. While I was searching for more info about it I came across the following problems:

- Kiss players have issues with playing less than DVD resolutions (i.e. resized)
- Kiss players doesn't compensate for non-square pixels on TV
- Kiss players are not properly stretching widescreen videos
- Kiss players cannot display full screen video on 16:9 screens

Last one is my observation while I was playing with Kiss 1000. I couldn't get the player not to stretch the width by 1.33 and therefore display full screen on my widescreen monitor. It looked like I always have to have anamorphic encode, but what to do if source is not anamorphic? Make it anamorphic anyway ?

Actually what I'm asking owners of Kiss players is:
- are all those issues still exists in some players with currrent firmware?
- does video has less issues on 4:3 TV, rather then 16:9?
- how ppl are doing the rips for their standalones?

As I'm doing solutions which are supposed to work on standalones I'm interested in solving all sorts of issues standalones have atm.

[goofer456]

I receive my KISS dp-1000 tomorrow. Will check some encodes I made with AutoGK 0.8 and report back.

[len0x]

thanks, goofer456.

Anyone else? I can't believe noone has Kiss players...

[goofer456]

Originally posted by len0x
thanks, goofer456.

Anyone else? I can't believe noone has Kiss players...

Received the DP-1000 just 5 minutes ago. Will report back asap. Sorry for the delay.

[goofer456]

After getting the kids in bed I finally had some time to play around:)

2 CD encodes (1400 KB) work like a charm! I burn 3 encodes on one DVD and see almost now difference with an orginal DVD. Burn't in subs work also great. I use the included Xvid build by the way

1 CD encode (700Kb) with xvid is nice but give some marcoblocks with action scenes.

So far I am very happy with the combo AutoGK and Kiss Dp-1000!;):)

Len0x: Please advise if you want me to check with specific settings.

[goofer456]

Originally posted by len0x
Actually what I'm asking owners of Kiss players is:
- are all those issues still exists in some players with currrent firmware?
- does video has less issues on 4:3 TV, rather then 16:9?
- how ppl are doing the rips for their standalones?

As I'm doing solutions which are supposed to work on standalones I'm interested in solving all sorts of issues standalones have atm.

*bump*

@len0x: See previous post

[len0x]

a couple of questions:

- do you use 4:3 or 16:9 TV for output ?
- do you see slight horizontal stretching of the image (probably due to the fact that pixels on TV are not squares like on monitors)

[goofer456]

Hi Len0x,

Thanks for taking the time to react on my post.

Originally posted by len0x
a couple of questions:

- do you use 4:3 or 16:9 TV for output ?

I use 16:9


- do you see slight horizontal stretching of the image (probably due to the fact that pixels on TV are not squares like on monitors)

Yes, although I can fix this with the TV itself which results in loosing part of the subtitles (outside of the screen)

I also encountered some slight stuttering with an encode with a width of 700+ (forget the exact width). I now encode with a fixed width of 576 which works great.

It seems that the existing KiSS players lack the horse power to cope with high-res encodes.

[len0x]

Originally posted by goofer456
I use 16:9


Oh, so you have ability to stretch the image on TV itself ? Coz I don't and all 1.85AR encodes look like 2.35AR :(

[goofer456]

Originally posted by len0x
Oh, so you have ability to stretch the image on TV itself ? Coz I don't and all 1.85AR encodes look like 2.35AR :(

Yup. I have the following "modes" on my tv (philips):

4:3
16:9
16:9 subtitles (handy when the subtitles don't show completly)
Superzoom

With Superzoom the image is very streched in some cases. My wife always thinks here favorite actors have become "fat" :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I think a fairly obvious question needs to be asked!

What image pixel frame sizes are the encodes you guys have used?

Cheers

[goofer456]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I think a fairly obvious question needs to be asked!

What image pixel frame sizes are the encodes you guys have used?

Cheers

Sorry if I look like a complete n00b:

Do you mean the resolution of the enncode? If so than the answer is that I encode @ 576 fixed width and AutoGK selects 306 for the height. So 576x306. I have other encodes with different sizes however.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by goofer456
Sorry if I look like a complete n00b:

Do you mean the resolution of the enncode? If so than the answer is that I encode @ 576 fixed width and AutoGK selects 306 for the height. So 576x306. I have other encodes with different sizes however. Yes, that's what I meant!

This tell me that your encode has an 'frame sise' aspect ratio of 1.88:1 (which is very close to what your 16:9 (or 1.77:1) TV likes - 16 divided by 9 equals 1.77:1).

Now, is your 576x306 encode all image/picture. Or do you have some black mattes above and below the picture as well?

Cheers

[goofer456]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Yes, that's what I meant!

This tell me that your encode has an 'frame sise' aspect ratio of 1.88:1 (which is very close to what your 16:9 (or 1.77:1) TV likes - 16 divided by 9 equals 1.77:1).

Now, is your 576x306 encode all image/picture. Or do you have some black mattes above and below the picture as well?

Cheers

Yes, the encodos do not have black borders above/below the image, but are full picture.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by goofer456
Complete picture. That's OK then!

Things start getting a little more confusing when say, an 2.35:1 picture is 'overlaid' onto an 1.77:1 background. And even more confusing when say, an anamorphic 2.35:1 picture is 'overlaid' onto an 1.77:1 anamorphic 1.77:1 background!

What happens when you spin a 2.35:1 cropped and resized encode. Do you have any of these?

If not I will put some examples on my WebSite!

Cheers

[goofer456]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
That's OK then!

Things start getting a little more confusing when say, an 2.35:1 picture is 'overlaid' onto an 1.77:1 background. And even more confusing when say, an anamorphic 2.35:1 picture is 'overlaid' onto an 1.77:1 anamorphic 1.77:1 background!

What happens when you spin a 2.35:1 cropped and resized encode. Do you have any of these?

If not I will put some examples on my WebSite!

Cheers

I don't have any 2.35:1 cropped and resized encode. If you can provide me with a dl link I will be happy to test it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by goofer456
I don't have any 2.35:1 cropped and resized encode. If you can provide me with a dl link I will be happy to test it. OK I've added some encodes to my WebSite (www.SeeMoreDigital.net) and navigate to 'Area 51 - Test Encodes'

Please note that the encodes that contain more than 414,720 pixels (ie 05 and 07) will work on an stand-alone player!

Cheers

EDIT: You might be lucky encode 05 should play

[goofer456]

Will try it when I get home from work this evening.

[len0x]

Originally posted by goofer456
Yup. I have the following "modes" on my tv (philips):

4:3
16:9


I might be loosing you here. Kiss 1000 ignores output AR setting for divx/xvid. So it can be corrected only on TV. I do have those modes on mine as well, but:

1) say you have 4:3 divx
say you have TV in 4:3 mode
Everything plays ok
2) now switch TV into 16:9 mode and you will see that it will stretch picture horizontally: no-go here.

3) say you have 16:9 divx
say you have TV in 4:3 mode
I can see everything perfect apart from the fact that I have black borders left and right (well, 4:3 mode)

4) switch TV into 16:9 and it only stretches image horizontally, leaving vertical resolution intact which results in flat distorted image...

So how do you manage to play widescreen videos full screen with perfect AR is beyong my understanding :)
(unless your TV has only vertical stretch, which obviously can fix the problem)

P.S. do you have auto-stretch enabled in Kiss setup ? which firmware are you running?

P.P.S. this problem was actually admitted by Kiss guys themselves...

[goofer456]

Originally posted by len0x
I might be loosing you here. Kiss 1000 ignores output AR setting for divx/xvid. So it can be corrected only on TV. I do have those modes on mine as well, but:

1) say you have 4:3 divx
say you have TV in 4:3 mode
Everything plays ok
2) now switch TV into 16:9 mode and you will see that it will stretch picture horizontally: no-go here.

3) say you have 16:9 divx
say you have TV in 4:3 mode
I can see everything perfect apart from the fact that I have black borders left and right (well, 4:3 mode)

4) switch TV into 16:9 and it only stretches image horizontally, leaving vertical resolution intact which results in flat distorted image...

So how do you manage to play widescreen videos full screen with perfect AR is beyong my understanding :)
(unless your TV has only vertical stretch, which obviously can fix the problem)

P.S. do you have auto-stretch enabled in Kiss setup ? which firmware are you running?

P.P.S. this problem was actually admitted by Kiss guys themselves...

Ok my misunderstanding (again I am relatively a n00b to this matter)

The "modes" on my TV and the results are exactly as you describe them. Sorry if I was unclear.

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by len0x

3) say you have 16:9 divx
say you have TV in 4:3 mode
I can see everything perfect apart from the fact that I have black borders left and right (well, 4:3 mode)

4) switch TV into 16:9 and it only stretches image horizontally, leaving vertical resolution intact which results in flat distorted image...


All 16:9 TVs i have seen have another mode wich stretches horizontally + vertically for such a case.
There must be something, how would you otherwise look a non-anamorphic DVD or a tv transmission (widescreen) ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi len0x,

You are describing the exact same symptoms that my Sigma Xcard suffers from.

It seems bloody ridiculous that when you set the players to 16:9 TV output, and spin an anamorphic encode, the image is not displayed correctly - even after forcing your TV to 16:9.

With the Xcard you have to press the up/down arrows on the remote control to obtain the correct aspect ratio - I guess there's some kind of manual override for the Kiss player!

If my theory about this Kiss player is correct, it should display the following PAL encode type correctly, when the player is set to 16:9: -

04 - PAR=2.35.1 FAR=640x272 (or 2.35.1) Mattes cropped

Which is not much fun if you are into encodes that have more pixels

Interestingly, when you set the player to 4:3 TV output the following PAL encode types, should appear at the correct aspect ratio on your 16:9 TV: -

01 - PAR=2.35.1 FAR=720x576 (or 1.25.1) Anamorphic Frame inc Mattes
06 - PAR=2.35.1 FAR=768x432 (or 1.77.1) Mattes cropped

Sigmas excuse with the Xcard is. When the player is set to 16:9 TV output, it's waiting for an '16:9 flagging signal' in the encode to pass onto the encoder chip and then onto the TV. Which is fine in theory but none existent in practise. As even XviD's most recent encoder (which supports AR flagging) does not work either!

Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
All 16:9 TVs i have seen have another mode wich stretches horizontally + vertically for such a case.
There must be something, how would you otherwise look a non-anamorphic DVD or a tv transmission (widescreen) ? Personally I don't mind so much using the TV's remote to stretch the picture horizontally. But definitely not vertically as well!

Doing this introduces too many visible horizontal lines and defeats the object of having a 16:9 TV output option in the first place!

Cheers

[Zhnujm]

Theres no other way if you have a non-anamorphic letterboxed source i think.
No DVD-Payer that i have seen resizes such a source vertically, not to speak from a tv transmission.
There are som DivX-player that do that for AVI files, but not all.

[len0x]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
All 16:9 TVs i have seen have another mode wich stretches horizontally + vertically for such a case.
There must be something, how would you otherwise look a non-anamorphic DVD or a tv transmission (widescreen) ?

dunno about TV transmission, but my DVD player takes care of everything else...

P.S. My TV is rather 16:9 LCD/TV screen...

[len0x]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital

With the Xcard you have to press the up/down arrows on the remote control to obtain the correct aspect ratio - I guess there's some kind of manual override for the Kiss player!


Well Kiss doesn't have that, but my LiteOn player does.
I'll get to play more with kiss next week again...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
Theres no other way if you have a non-anamorphic letterboxed source i think.
No DVD-Payer that i have seen resizes such a source vertically, not to speak from a tv transmission.
There are som DivX-player that do that for AVI files, but not all. Eeeh gods. If this really is the case it's very poor oversight on behalf of the manufacturers!

There must be quite a few Kiss players owners with 16:9 TV's, who might want to generate high bitrate Mpeg4 DivX/XviD anamorphic 720x480/576 encodes onto an DVD~R/RW (I know I would and do now) But can't do this because their players don't provide them a proper 16:9 TV output option......... That's just pants!

Cheers

[Zhnujm]

@len0x:
Seems this problem is fixed with the new 2.8 firmware for the kiss players, i just read it in some forum.

@SeeMoreDigital:
The oposite is true, if you have an anamorphic avi its ok if the player does no stretching, otherwise the anamorphic avi gets strechted again by the player because no player can read ar settings in avi files (it so with my elta 8883 after the firmware update).
Only if you have non-anamorphic files this would be an advantage because the players can resize better better than the TV.

I find this very annoying, everytime i want to look an anamorphic avi i have to switch the player to 4:3 letterbox.
I would prefer it would do it like len0x describes. Or an option in the setup would be best for both worlds. :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Zhnujm,

Just to confirm. What aspect ratio TV do you have 4:3 or 16:9?

Cheers

[Zhnujm]

Its a 16:9 TV.
OK, if you have a 4:3 TV, an anamorphic avi would be a problem because the player can not reduce the height and add black borders as it does with an anamorphic dvd source.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
Its a 16:9 TV.
OK, if you have a 4:3 TV, an anamorphic avi would be a problem because the player can not reduce the height and add black borders as it does with an anamorphic dvd source. OK, have you tried this: -

Generate an PAL 720x576 anamorphic encode from an PAL 'widescreen DVD' source which has a PAR of 2.35:1. And generate an NTSC 720x480 anamorphic encode from an NTSC 'widescreen DVD' source which also has a PAR of 2.35:1. (I have PAL and NTSC versions of the same 2.35:1 PAR DVD movie).

Set your Kiss player to 4:3 TV out (like you are doing now) and view the encodes on your 16:9 TV.

When playing back both encodes make a mark with a piece of tape (or something similar), where the mattes appear.

I think you will find that the mattes will appear in different positions. If this is the case then the 4:3 TV output to a 16:9 TV theory does not work.... it's a compromise solution!

Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I dont have a Kiss/Sigma based player anymore, i have an elta 8883 (MediaTek based) now. But it was the same with my elta 8882 (Sigma).

If you set the player to 4:3 the avi is displayed as it is, only PAR correction is done (so you have to resize the source a little bit anyway, only cropping does not work).
non-anamorphic avi: TV in "Zoom Mode" - fills the screen horizontally and stretches vertically
anamorphic avi: TV in "Widescreen Mode" - fills the screen horizontally, vertical size already fits

If the player is set to 16:9 the avi gets vertically stretched to make it "pseudo" anamorphic. Works good if your file is not anamorphic, but if it is already anamorphic you get a double stretched file.... :rolleyes:
non-anamorphic avi: TV in "Widescreen Mode" - fills the screen horizontally, vertical size already fits (because of player resizing)
anamorphic avi: not possible


I have not checked if PAL/NTSC makes a difference, but i compared the output from the original dvd with the avi file and it was the same.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well I think it was/is still very poor of the manufactures not to let 16:9 TV owners select 16:9 TV output on their players when wanting to watch an anamorphic Mpeg4 DivX/XviD 720x480/576 anamorphic encodes!

As everytime you want to spin a widescreen PAL or NTSC DVD you have to flick the TV output to 16:9 and then back again to 4:3 for an anamorphic Mpeg4 DivX/XviD encode!

How does your elta 8883 cope?

And I forgot to ask. Are there and DVD/Mpeg4 combo standalones that have an DV-I output connector (I seem to remember that one of the old Elta's did)?

Cheers

[manono]

Hi-

Are there and DVD/Mpeg4 combo standalones that have an DV-I output connector

Yes, there are a couple (maybe 3 or 4 now). I have one. But as far as I know, the ones out now all use the Sigma Designs first generation chip (8500?).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by manono
Hi-

Are there and DVD/Mpeg4 combo standalones that have an DV-I output connector

Yes, there are a couple (maybe 3 or 4 now). I have one. But as far as I know, the ones out now all use the Sigma Designs first generation chip (8500?). Now that's interesting, as I'm thinking of adding a DV-I output connector to my Sigma Xcard (at some time).

Do you know if there are any web links showing photo's of the circuit board(s)/internal workings?

Cheers

[manono]

Hi SMD-

I don't know if this will help or not. Here's a review with a pic of the circuit board of the model I have:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0%2C3998%2Ca=45897%2C00.asp

Here are some pics of a similar model by Momitsu:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/videodevices/momitsuv880/momitsuv880_pictures.html

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
...As everytime you want to spin a widescreen PAL or NTSC DVD you have to flick the TV output to 16:9 and then back again to 4:3 for an anamorphic Mpeg4 DivX/XviD encode!...
.

At least the 8883 can switch this with a few button clicks, not as the 8882 - stop the movie, open the tray, then go to setup and change it. :rolleyes:
Main probem is the non-existing ar setting in avi files, the player can only guess whats right. As long as theres no support for different containers or ar setting in avi files nothing will change.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
At least the 8883 can switch this with a few button clicks, not as the 8882 - stop the movie, open the tray, then go to setup and change it. :rolleyes:
Main probem is the non-existing ar setting in avi files, the player can only guess whats right. As long as theres no support for different containers or ar setting in avi files nothing will change. Yes, it sounds a lot easier but still a pain though!

I wonder if you could do me a favour. On my WebSite (www.SeeMoreDigital.net), in Area 51, I have some short NTSC 'Aspect Ratio Test Encodes'. Could you view then on your 16:9 TV (setting your player(s) to both 4:3 and 16:9 TV output) and post which ones appear at the correct aspect ratio!

I'm interested to learn which ones will appear at the correct aspect ratio compared to my player!

Originally posted by manono
I don't know if this will help or not. Here's a review with a pic of the circuit board of the model I have:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_ar...=45897%2C00.asp

Here are some pics of a similar model by Momitsu:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/vide...0_pictures.html

Cheers Hey, thanks for the links. Very interesting that they're for Sigma based players, especially as earlier today Sigma informed me that adding such a connector 'would not be possible' with the Xcard!

But I reckon it's worth a go!

Many thanks guys. Cheers

[Zhnujm]

I can only check encoding 1,2,3,4,7 because of the resolution.

So the results are:

Player set to 4:3
1+2 - correct aspect ratio, tv set to "widescreen"
3+4 - correct aspect ratio, tv set to "zoom"
7 - picture is a little bit higher than 1+2+3+4, tv set to widescreen

Player set to 16:9, tv to "widescreen"
1 - picture gets letterboxed to the left+right, creating a 4:3 display on the 16:9 screen, and the picture is much to high
2 - picture much to high
3 - picture gets letterboxed to the left+right, creating a 4:3 display on the 16:9 screen, correct aspect ratio
4 - correct aspect ratio
7 - picture much to high

I think this "letterboxing" the left and right side is supposed to be a feature, its used whenever full pal or ntsc lines (576/480) are used, seems the player thinks that these resolution are always full frames (without black bars) and should be displayed as 4:3 on tv.
I think different :D, but avi files without cropped bars are not very common.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thank you very much Zhnujm, for taking the time and trouble to do this. I hope my slow up link connection did not frustrate you too much?

Your '4:3 and 16:9 TV output' results are exactly what I expected!

However, I do think that encode 07 with 4:3 TV output and 04 with 16:9 TV output, should in-fact display the correct aspect ratio ie the same as the source!

I find it very strange that your player could not spin encodes 05 and 06 and as neither exceed an image pixel frame size totalling more than 414,270 pixels!

I suspected that a standalone player might not like encodes 5 and 6, as the pixel width was 864 pixels. But I had hoped encodes 5a and 6a, with pixel width of 848, would have worked, because they don't exceed a pixel width of 854. (And a pixel size of 854x480 equates to a 'true 16:9 frame'). That said, non of the encodes exceed 414,720 pixels, which is the decoder chips limit!

Strange too, that 'all' the encodes work with the Xcard!

Over the weekend I hope to add some PAL 'Aspect Ratio Encodes'. That is if I ever get my PAL DVD version of StarWars 1 back!

Thanks very much again.

Cheers

[Zhnujm]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
However, I do think that encode 07 with 4:3 TV output and 04 with 16:9 TV output, should in-fact display the correct aspect ratio ie the same as the source!


Well, the difference is not very big, i would say. Exactly it seems the height of encoding 4 with 16:9 is between the height of encoding 1+2+3+4 in 4:3 and encoding 7 in 4:3.

For the resolution i think theres a simple line of code in the firmware like this:
if (x>720) {
printf("resolution not supported")
goto end
} :D

[Atlantis]

Ok, I’m confused a little; I just purchased a Kiss DP-1500s. I also have a LiteOn and want to stretch the image as I want. If not, how can I watch 640 x 272 encodes, on my widescreen TV in anamorphic mode? I don’t want to use the zoom of my TV because it sucks. I just have to stretch the picture vertically a little. (by the player)

[len0x]

The only player I know that can do vertical stretch is LiteOn.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Atlantis
Ok, I’m confused a little; I just purchased a Kiss DP-1500s. I also have a LiteOn and want to stretch the image as I want. If not, how can I watch 640 x 272 encodes, on my widescreen TV in anamorphic mode? I don’t want to use the zoom of my TV because it sucks. I just have to stretch the picture vertically a little. (by the player) Just to make matters clear...

If you have generated your .AVI encode without any form of PAR or DAR correction and have cropped away the black mattes and resized the image. An encode with an pixel frame size of 640x272 has an aspect ratio of approx 2.35:1.

If this is the case. You now have a "square pixel" encode, not an "anamorphic" encode.

That said... I'm alarmed that such an encode can't be replayed correctly and viewed via a 16:9 TV.

I presume both the Kiss and LiteOn players have an option to select the, "TV output shape" (ie: 4:3 or 16:9)?

It sounds daft but when spinning your Mpeg4 .AVI's, have you tried selecting an 4:3 TV output shape?


Cheers

[len0x]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
That said... I'm alarmed that such an encode can't be replayed correctly and viewed via a 16:9 TV.
I presume both the Kiss and LiteOn players have an option to select the, "TV output shape" (ie: 4:3 or 16:9)?


Hey, I thought you are here long enough to know that usually only Mediatek based players can display widescreen material on 16:9 TV properly. :) I mean ESS chip cannot do that. Sigma-based can sometimes if manually adjusted (like in LiteOn), but all Kiss players are known to have problems with wide screen playback. And moreover in my exprience 16:9/4:3 setting on those (ESS/Sigma) players is not working for AVIs. (only setting TV to 4:3 helps, but you will have black bars on all four sides.)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by len0x
Hey, I thought you are here long enough to know that usually only Mediatek based players can display widescreen material on 16:9 TV properly. :) I mean ESS chip cannot do that. Sigma-based can sometimes if manually adjusted (like in LiteOn), but all Kiss players are known to have problems with wide screen playback. And moreover in my exprience 16:9/4:3 setting on those (ESS/Sigma) players is not working for AVIs. (only setting TV to 4:3 helps, but you will have black bars on all four sides.) I guess I was hoping that both ESS and Sigma had released revised firmware to get around this problem by now!

No wonder there are so many pissed off stand-alone player users. It's really an unforgivable situation which has got to be damaging stand-alone player sales!


Cheers

[Zhnujm]

The Sigma players i have seen (elta 8882,hiteker 920,yamakawa 365) also support stretching to widescreen if you set the player to 16:9.
Did not know that it is different with kiss players.

[manono]

Yeah, my Sigma player (Bravo D1) plays everything with proper AR on my widescreen also. This is the first I've heard of such a problem with Sigma based players. Perhaps Atlantis still has his outputting for 4:3 TVs.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I also have to confirm that my Sigma Xcard can also display "square pixelled" encodes correctly on both my 16:9 TV's...

That said, my device is not an stand-alone player!


Cheers

[len0x]

Originally posted by manono
Yeah, my Sigma player (Bravo D1)

Btw, this seems to be a nice brand. I'm awaiting D3 model that's gonna be based on sigma 8620 chip (the only problem is - its not gonna be available outside of US, so I will have so smuggle it from there somehow :)). Unfortunately Sigma screwed all manufactures - players on that chip were supposed to be out in spring, but still not here...

P.S. back to Kiss issue - I had played with Kiss 1000 and couln't make to work with widescreen TV.

[len0x]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
No wonder there are so many pissed off stand-alone player users. It's really an unforgivable situation which has got to be damaging stand-alone player sales!


Not enough I guess. For instance in real life I don't know anyone who has a widescreen TV (apart from me :D, although its rather multipurpose LCD panel than pure TV). So I think whoever can afford buying nice big widescreen TVs do not bother with MPEG4 and just buys DVDs... That's probably the reason that hi-end manufacturers have not adopted it yet... (its still pretty low-end market - proof is that almost none of MPEG4 enabled players have DVI output for instance).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, you're right about Mpeg4 enabled stand-alones and the DVI output!

I'm also rather surprised that there are very few Mpeg2/DVD players with this output connector. And no DSS amplifiers, AFAIK...

With regard to 16:9 TV's, just about everybody I know has one of these now (most of whom are not interested in encoding), especially since the birth of FreeView (the UK's DVB-T service). Even my parents and my wifes parents have one!

The thing that upsets me most about 16:9 TV set owners, is their inability to set them up properly. If it's one thing I can't stand is watching an obvious 4:3 image, expanded to 16:9.


Cheers

[Atlantis]

Man, I should have checked this first on the net before buying my kiss player! :(

[manono]

Hi-

I'm awaiting D3 model that's gonna be based on sigma 8620 chip

Me too. And then the other day I saw this:

http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=MIJ&sc=JSR&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDG

And that one really got my blood racing. :) It's coming out in Japan right now (if they're to be believed), and out in the US next month (if they're to be believed). It's got a boatload of features for around $300 USD. So maybe the new gen Sigma standalones are coming very soon. At the moment, Vinc. (makers of the Bravo series) say only that they hope to get theirs out before the end of the year.

[len0x]

Originally posted by manono
Me too. And then the other day I saw this:


Saw that as well. Lucky US and Japanese markets, coz its not gonna be available in Europe either. Tell us if you get it. I really need to invent some scheme to avoid customs charge when shipping :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

It's about time some players appeared with Sigma's new EM8620 chip-set...

Put me down for one (with an option for two more)!


Cheers