@DanniDin - BeSweetGUI bug with AAC

[filewalker]

Hi DanniDin,

there is bug regarding AAC in the BeSweetGUIv.0.7b2.

Please read this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67824&perpage=20&pagenumber=2) for detailed info about this bug.

Conclusion:
If "MP4(AAC)" is selected in the Output dropdownlist of the BeSweetGUIv.0.7b2, the GUI shows an .aac extension as Output location, although there should be ".mp4" extension instead.

(in Oagmachine it works as it should...providing an .mp4 file.)

Thanks in advance! :)

Cu filewalker

[Tuning]

I still feel its because wrong file name is given to besweet and hence, while encoding the wrong extension file is generated. Similarly I thnk *.mp3 can be made in besweet,instead of mp4; if output is given as
-core(-input blah.ac3 -output blah.mp3 ) bsn()...etc.

Is this was the problem ?

[LigH]

How many times did we discuss that:

A filename extension doesn't mean anything.

It's just worth a little bit for registering an application with it, for filtering or sorting directory entries ... and very very far below all that, maybe for guessing a file's content.

So if you feel that the filename extension shall be ".mp4" instend of ".aac", well - simply rename it afterwards; and tell us in detail why you think that one extension may be more exact than the other one.
__

In fact, I think that the extension ".aac" is much more specific than the extension ".mp4", because MP4 (MPEG Version 4) is a huge standard, covering some video and several audio encoding algorithms, as well as a file format specification - *.mp4-Files may contain anything inside that standard, e.g. starting with a single video or audio stream. *.aac in contrast is obviously an audio file with AAC compression, but definitely no video - and therefore more specific.

Just like the other usual differences:
(more general:) MPA is any MPEG Audio;
(more specific:) MP2 is MPEG Audio Layer 2.

(more general:) MPG is any MPEG compatible file;
(more specific:) M2V is MPEG2 Video, M1P would be an MPEG1 program stream (video and probably other streams, e.g. audio) but is very rarely used.

...
If any application imports AAC audio files only if they use the extension *.mp4, you may blame more its programmer for using bad file masks in the "File open" dialogs, but less the authors of applications which use more specific extensions to aid the user.

The only exception I may find here is, if the transcoding output is wrapped inside an MP4 container format, instead of being a pure (elementary) AAC stream. If that is the case, then *.mp4 is indeed more correct.

[filewalker]

So if you feel that the filename extension shall be ".mp4" instend of ".aac", well - simply rename it afterwards; and tell us in detail why you think that one extension may be more exact than the other one.

What I understand from this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67824) bond said that only renaming isn't a good idea...beacuse MP4 keeps headers inside, raw AAC not.
In my opinion it's confusing because with BeSweetGUI we get an .aac file that is in reality an .mp4 file.
AFAIK AAC means raw AAC without headers (except adts aac).

So it's confusing, because I (and the average user) want to mux e.g. a HE AAC file with MKVMerge, but should I tick there the "AAC = HE AAC" option (which should be done with raw AAC, but not with MP4 files)?

If you say that just renaming solves this discussion, ok then I know to handle this confusing issue...but, believe me, some other user is coming soon and'll ask the same question again.


Besides, I think that it's just a little thing to correct this extension issue for DanniDin, I hope so, at least...


Cu filewalker

[Tuning]

@LigH and all

We must consider the context here. Its BeSweet GUI only. BeSweet GUI is using BSN and Nero encoding plugins. The latter produces spec compilant Mp4 files only in default condition. So with out changing the encoder options BeSweetGUI is now producing *.aac files with ADTS header. So its not a perfect aac file. So it's confusing, because I (and the average user) want to mux e.g. a HE AAC file with MKVMerge, but should I tick there the "AAC = HE AAC" option (which should be done with raw AAC, but not with MP4 files)?

More than this some players, for instance winamp(5.0) in default accepts only *.aac file. If you have no mp4plugin then mp4 files cannot be played. This condition is same if the mp4 was a renamed to aac.

So what we are trying to establish is, the extension should not be changed as of now. If we anyway want to change, then we will use ivan&menno or foobar etc.

On other hand if it is required to be sure to use *.aac files, then it must be of original raw stream and not as renamed mp4 with ADTS header.

[bond]

DanniDin, to avoid misunderstandings i post the exact bug report once again here:

normally the nero encoder will always output a .mp4 file, no matter what options the user ticks in the nero codec interface
if the user ticks the "export iso 13818-7 aac track" additionally to the .mp4 file an .aac file gets output (so to say the user than has a .mp4 and an .aac file)

in oagmachine it works fine: a mp4 gets output always. if the iso option is also ticked, additionally an .aac file gets produced too (as it should be)

whereas if the iso option is not ticked latest besweetgui outputs a .mp4 file renamed to .aac, which is wrong as i write in my next post (as it seems to force the .aac extension on the output). when i tick iso, i only get an .aac file with filesize 0

plz make besweetgui behave like oagmachine and all problems are gone!


btw: it is also good to remove the plugin path setting from besweet gui, as dspguru did in oagmachine

[bond]

Originally posted by LigH
A filename extension doesn't mean anything.ligh, plz stop confusing newbies with "theoretical, scientific" discussions!!!

of course an extension means something, cause all correct tools expect a specific content to be stored in a file with a specific file extension!

so to say:
no, its not a good idea to change file extensions as you like!!!

So if you feel that the filename extension shall be ".mp4" instend of ".aac", well - simply rename it afterwardsno!!! absolut nonsense!

an .aac file can not be renamed to an .mp4 file!!! these are not the same files! the .aac stream is the raw data with adts header, which gets packed into the .mp4 container (its like packing a .mp3 stream in .avi and than renaming the .avi back to .mp3 - absolut nonsense) period, everyone who renames an .aac to .mp4 or the other way round will get a f*ed up results. its like renaming a .ogg file to .mp3 and than claiming that no tool can handle it anymore...

you can rename apples .m4a files to .mp4 as these are the same files and apples itunes simply renames normal .mp4 files to .m4a to tell a player (namely itunes) that this is an audio only file

but file extensions are not only there to make it possible to link to a specific player...

so to sum it up:
dont ever rename .aac files to .mp4 or the other way round, if you want to extract the aac data, or put it in the mp4 container, use the great ivan&menno (http://home.wanadoo.nl/~w.speek/ivan&menno.htm) tool (based on mp4creator)
period

tuning, plz make clear in the aac faq in big letters/as first question to everyone that simple renaming from .aac to .mp4 isnt possible!

[bobsc]

Originally posted by bond
btw: it is also good to remove the plugin path setting from besweet gui, as dspguru did in oagmachine
Why?

[bond]

Originally posted by bobsc
Why? cause it doesnt work!
read more here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66924)

[bobsc]

Originally posted by bond
cause it doesnt work!
But, can this be fixed.

[bond]

you will have to bug the author of nencoder (on which bsn is based) i guess

Originally posted by DSPguru
well, the only flexibilty you can get from the "-path" feature, is that it helps you avoiding moving the "aac.dll" file from the nero plugin folder, but as for the aacenc32.dll & neroipp.dll, you must have those files in the BeSweet folder or alternatively at windows/system.
--
since "-path" feature is practicly useless, i decided to remove it from OagMachine v0.1

[bobsc]

Originally posted by bond
you will have to bug the author of nencoder (on which bsn is based) i guess
Well foobar works fine with the nero plugin(based on nencode).

[LigH]

Well, well - sorry for confusing. Obviously this is a topic where I did not read enough details.

Could someone please summarize: Which files writes the Nero encoder by default, which may it write additionally? Now I have three file types to choose from (pure AAC; ADTS AAC; AAC inside MP4) - and the more I read this thread, the more I get confused! :confused:

[bond]

the nero encoder always outputs an aac-in-mp4 file!
when ticking the "export iso" option it additionally outputs an aac-with-adts-header too (so you than have two files: a .mp4 and a .aac)

[DanniDin]

Fixed in 0.7b3 (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/BeSweetGUIv0.7b3.zip) :)

[filewalker]

:)
Coool!...Thanks for your update!


Btw. Is it intenionally, that AAC(Output type) in "Step2" in BeSweetWizard v0.2 b1 is greyed out?

Again...Thanks! :)


Cu filewalker

[bond]

thanks a lot dannidin :)

two more things:
plz make the "show config dialog" option ticked by default as only with this the users can choose their encoding settings
and plz remove the "set plugin path" as it is useless as dspguru also already mentioned and also already removed from oagmachine

[LigH]

By the way - DSPguru: I think I once found a "BeSweetGUI 0.6 release" at your "stable" page; currently, there is "BeSweet 0.6b61". I doubt that this is intentional - but more or less cosmetical...

[bobsc]

Originally posted by bond
plz make the "show config dialog" option ticked by default as only with this the users can choose their encoding settings
Just edit DD-Profiles -bsn( -6chnew -config ) and -bsn( -2ch -config ).

[bond]

i of course know how to set it, the thing is newbies might not know it ;)

[DanniDin]

Sorry for the Long Delay!

Here is 0.7b4 (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/BeSweetGUIv0.7b4.zip) :)

New:

- BeSweet: "Big-Endian PCM" Checkbox is Unchecked by Default for .pcm/.wav File Types.

- Azid: Updated -s Switch for Azid v1.9

"-s surround" -> "-s dpl"
"-s surround2" -> "-s dplii"

- AAC/MP4: "Show Config Dialog" Option is Now Checked by Default (Thanks bond)
- AAC/MP4: "Removed "Set Plugin Path" (Thanks bond)


@filewalker:

The AAC(Output Type) in "Step2" in BeSweetWizard v0.2 b1 is Greyed Out Because it Doesn't Work Yet ;)


Enjoy :)

[bond]

Originally posted by DanniDin
- AAC/MP4: "Show Config Dialog" Option is Now Checked by Default (Thanks bond)its not ticked here :(

[bobsc]

Originally posted by bond
its not ticked here :(
It's ticked here if you use the included DD-Profiles and select MP4 (AAC) Output.
I think it would be better to edit the DD-Profiles that comes with BeSweetv1.5b25.

[DanniDin]

@bond:

It'll Be Be Ticked if:

You Choose "MP4 (AAC)" Output from the "BeSweet" Screen

or

Click On the "AAC/MP4" Frame in the "DTS / AAC / MP4" Frame.



All the Settings are Saved in the Profiles So You Have to Choose/Change Outputs in Order to Load the Default for "MP4 (AAC)" and Update the CheckBox.