Nero Recode 2 released!

[Saiya-Jin]

Finally it's here! :D
To get the whole "major update" thing, you have to download all 4 packages. And there quite a bit of new features too.

http://www.nero.com/en/632028719687858.html

[amorfeusz]

I was hoping to use Nero Digital to make high quality DVD backups onto DVD-R, but it seems that you can't have more than one audio track :(

I'm not too familiar with the MP4 container, but I assume that it can hold multiple audio streams ...so it's just not implemented in Nero Recode2 ?

Depending on what turns up in a few hours (testing on Pirates of the Carribean), I might have to stick with GKnot for multiple audio track backups.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I found a link to the Nero6 update packs, including Recode2 here: -

http://www.nero.com/en/nero-up.php

Cheers

[Stux]

Originally posted by amorfeusz
I'm not too familiar with the MP4 container, but I assume that it can hold multiple audio streams ...so it's just not implemented in Nero Recode2 ?


I'm not sure if Nero can play them, but 3ivx D4 4.5 lets you create MP4s with multiple audio tracks, and play them. In fact you should be able to add a 2nd audio track to a nero encoded MP4.

Just not sure if Nero will let you play both tracks

[The Edge]

Complete change log:-




New features Nero Burning ROM / Nero Express 6.3.0.0

Unlimited MP3 encoding and OGG vorbis encoding/decoding (only for US customers and requires online registration within 90 days)
Significant usability improvements
AMD64bit support
Hyperthreading support

New features NeroVision Express 2.1.0.0

DVD-VR import
Export to DV camera
Improved capture quality and hardware support
Powerful Undo/Redo function
Choose between 1-Pass and 2-Pass encoding
Default template for new project
DVR-MS (Windows XP Media Center Edition file format) support for Win XP SP1
New filters/effects
- Invert Color
- Multiply pixel
- Gamma correction
- Edges detection
- Emboss
- Enhance details
- Enhance edges
- Enhance focus
- Light edges
- Shift edges
- Soften filter
Splitting function for slideshows with a large number of pictures
Half-D1 resolution for DVD supported
AMD64bit support

New features Recode 2.0.0.0

1:1 DVD to DVD Copy with original menu
Remake a DVD from one or multiple DVD movies
Convert DVDs in amazing quality to Nero Digital while using the Nero Digital profile templates
Fit the Nero Digital files to DVD, CD or custom size
5.1 channel audio support
Unique Watch-while-you-Burn mode
Burn-at-once technology
Quick and advanced analysis model
AMD64bit support

New features Showtime 1.5.0.0

AB Bookmark repeat
Added time search feature (direct input of the target time to jump)
Subtitle and chapter support for Nero Digital
All player features available through right-click
Double-click on display changes to full screen
Double-click on full screen changes to normal window
IFO and DAT files playback support
Powerful post-processing for Nero Digital available
New image settings for film effects
Dynamic Noise Control (DNC) for CD/DVD during playback
AMD64bit support

New features InCD 4.1.0.0

DVD-RAM support
DVD-RW quick format
Significant performance improvements on high-speed media

New features BackItUp 1.2.0.0

On-the-fly compression/recording (Compression can be done without using any temporary storage of hard disc while burning on CD/DVD)
Hot plugging of recorders
Support for HD-Burn recorder
Read-me file on every disc to tell the backup name, disc number and backup information file location
Significant usability improvements
AMD64bit support

What's the story with the Ogg plugin?
Why does one have to register for it?


Edge

[plazz2000]

Hi,

Maybe someone can help me out here, in Recode2 there are 3 options:

Copy Entire DVD to DVD
Remake DVD
Copy DVD to NeroDigital

The first two open Ok for me, but when I click on the third one I get two error messages. The first says that Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding is unavailable and I should install the Multichannel plugin.

The next says that Dolby Digital 2 channel decoding is unavailable and that I should install the DVD-Video plugin, or Nero 6 Ultra Edition.

I have both the DVD Video plugin and Nero6 Ultra installed, but I still can't use the Nero Digital encoder.

John.

[ookzDVD]

Due on my limited download bandwidth.

I'm really minimalize, so I really want to download the only necessary file to enable the Recode 2 : DVDR backup and NeroDigital.

Is that possible only download the upgrade pack #2 ?

Or should I download the upgrade pack #1 also ?

I hope people with LARGE bandwidth can help me to find out these.

Thank you.

[ThePanther]

Has anyone experienced any problems where Recode 2 restarts the machine in mid conversion. DVD -> MP4.

I have tried 4 different DVD, a number of times, and each time (at random places) the machine will reset.

I have reinstalled XP Pro on a seperate partition to ensure that it was not related to anything I have installed.

It still happens on the clean installation.

Any Ideas ?

[ThePanther]

Have tried transcoding DVD 2 DVD and that seems to work 100%, no reseting.

[bond]

hm, it seems that recode2 has some bugs :(

the following things were reported:
- asks for the dvd/mpeg-2 plugin
- asks for the mulichannel plugin
- asks for neroapi
- problems with ND encoding (in the end and in the middle of the conversion)

than its to mention that the ND developers dont recommend the usage of their Qpel and GMC implementation (i hope they will work on Qpel at least :D )

ookzDVD,
i merged your thread with this one as it is not necessary to start a new thread for every question that might arrise in the beginning

[McoreD]

Can anybody please confirm Recode2 can convert a DVD to MPEG4 with 5.1 Channel Audio, so I can burn it to a CD?
The changle log does say it supports DVD to MPEG4, also it says in another place Recode2 support 5.1 Channal Audio support, but those two are not mentioned together.

Thanks.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by bond
hm, it seems that recode2 has some bugs :(

the following things were reported:
- asks for the dvd/mpeg-2 plugin
- asks for the mulichannel plugin
- asks for neroapi
- problems with ND encoding (in the end and in the middle of the conversion)


I think Nero developers has realized that and now all links to update pack2 on German/Japan/Us servers removed.

And i could not d/l buggy version. I feel very lucky.:D.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by McoreD
Can anybody please confirm Recode2 can convert a DVD to MPEG4 with 5.1 Channel Audio, so I can burn it to a CD?
The changle log does say it supports DVD to MPEG4, also it says in another place Recode2 support 5.1 Channal Audio support, but those two are not mentioned together.

Thanks.

Look here for all your doubts:http://www.doom9.org/nerodigital.htm

[Teegedeck]

Originally posted by bond
than its to mention that the ND developers dont recommend the usage of their Qpel and GMC implementation (i hope they will work on Qpel at least :D )
JohnV from HA states that:
[...]because ND developers mean, that if users want to have faster encoding, then these should be disabled. But, if someone wants to use the features nevertheless, they do not recommend against it.

[Jaques]

Well, I was able to get it and I'd like to say that it's a very nice codec, but I'll have to do some more experimenting with it as my results looked very nice on some parts, but very blocky on what seemed to be the brighter parts. Maybe it was qpel? I used what I would use on xvid, wide search (or the equivalent), Mpeg, qpel, and bframes at ~840kbps. Oh, it was encoding at ~60fps on my AXP2400+ with a gig of XMS3200, very nice as xvid only gives me about 6fps.

[lighty]

@bond

I had a same problem here when upgrading from older version.
You simply have to deinstall older version completely, manualy delete folders that remained and clean registry from all Ahead and Nero entries. Then restart, install new Recode2 and/or Nero and it will work flawlessly.

I just finished first encoding so I can vouch this method works.


The reason why this version might have been removed from Ahead server is because it seems that Recode2 could be installed without any serial and as a standalone product. At least that's what some users reported.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by lighty
The reason why this version might have been removed from Ahead server is because it seems that Recode2 could be installed without any serial and as a standalone product. At least that's what some users reported. Yes, I was going to ask about this myself.

I downloaded Nero and Nero VisionExpress last night and was able to obtain direct access to Nero Recode2 without entering a serial. I just assumed it was a 'trial' thing!

However I noticed that certain functions were missing, like 6Ch AAC and GMC.

Also, the encodes won't work on my Xcard at all. Which makes me wonder if Ahead ever tested their software with this card!

Cheers

[JohnV]

Well.. qpel can reduce quality. At least you should have enough bits to spare for it. It could be safer to encode without qpel, unless you want to experiment and/or use higher bitrates.

[Doom9]

qpel also has a very distinctive motion effect on the video.. not everybody likes it.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I been playing with Recode2 some more today, however the following notice keeps appearing: -

"Due to patent license restrictions, Dolby Digital 5.1 channel decoding is not available. This feature can be added by installing the Multi-channel Plug-in."

I don't know about some of you guys but I find Nero's website confusing at the best of times. I could not find any info about such an plug-in or are some features missing from the demo version?

Cheers

[Doom9]

smd: seems you need a valid nero license for some functions.. I was never asked to buy any plugins.. nero showtime even plays my DVDs, and I do have 6ch AAC output and GMC as you can see from the guides.

[sotsog]

Try the following:

1. uninstall nerovision
2. restart
3. install the update package
4. restart

WOrks now for me, got the same messeges ("buy the plugin") before.

Sotsog

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Doom9
smd: seems you need a valid nero license for some functions.. I was never asked to buy any plugins.. nero showtime even plays my DVDs, and I do have 6ch AAC output and GMC as you can see from the guides. Thanks Doom9, I suspected as much!

It was while playing a vob file in 'ShowTime' that the Multi-channel Plug-in notice appeared!

I wonder if this is why the GMC selection tab was greyed out as well?

I also wonder why Nero doesn't simply state in their notice that Dolby Digital isn't available in the promo version!

Cheers

[Tuning]

Originally posted by lighty
The reason why this version might have been removed from Ahead server is because it seems that Recode2 could be installed without any serial and as a standalone product. At least that's what some users reported.

Now again available on ahead servers!. Just started downloading. So I don't know is there any changes.

btw, file name is same.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by Tuning
Now again available on ahead servers!. Just started downloading. So I don't know is there any changes.

btw, file name is same.

Actually it mainly fixes the "internal error" message you get at the end of the encoding in the initial release.

This new version should be fine, so gentlemen start you engine and let's recode a few DVDs :)

-- bobololo.

[Doom9]

I wonder if this is why the GMC selection tab was greyed out as well?You do have the unrestricted profile selected, don't you? Profiles actually limit your choice. I don't know which profile limits you to what but there might be some that won't allow everything. Though it shouldn't have any influence on the audio part.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have another update.

I've been able to install Recode2 totally on it's own - ie without Nero 6.3.0.0 being installed!

However when the application was initially launched, a notice appeared informing me that the application will expire after a certain number of days, if a serial is not purchased.

But.... what the hey, it works. Which is a little strange because I thought Nero6 and Recode2 were supposed to be 'joined at the hip'!

I still have no 6Ch surround sound though so I guess I'll have to purchase a serial at some time. Which I don't particular want to do because I don't use their burner software anymore!

But having said all of that, if the application can't generate MP4 container files that are suitable for my Xcard, Recode2 is going to be pretty pointless for me anyway!

Cheers

[riggits]

I tried to encode a DVD to NeroDigital, and was told that NeroAPI wasn't present. Also, even though the program started, I couldn't select my DVD. This is a Nero-specific problem, and I think it's because the piracy prevention is not working. The software phones home when I install it.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital


But having said all of that, if the application can't generate MP4 container files that are suitable for my Xcard, Recode2 is going to be pretty pointless for me anyway!


Do you have a rough idea of the capabilities of your card ? Maybe can you share a mp4 file that runs on your card and explain how you created it ? How do you play the mp4 file on your card ? I guess you have some custom software player ?

Basically, MP4 files generated by ND are supposed to be strictly ISO compliant. Obviously it may has bugs and in this case we'll fix that.

[ThePanther]

Guys,

Is anyone experiencing problems with encoding from DVD (Ripped) to Nero Digital, where you machine resets while encoding.

[Destron]

Originally posted by ThePanther
Has anyone experienced any problems where Recode 2 restarts the machine in mid conversion. DVD -> MP4.
Any Ideas ?

Try checking your CPU temperature.

Destron

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
Do you have a rough idea of the capabilities of your card ? Maybe can you share a mp4 file that runs on your card and explain how you created it ? How do you play the mp4 file on your card ? I guess you have some custom software player ?

Basically, MP4 files generated by ND are supposed to be strictly ISO compliant. Obviously it may has bugs and in this case we'll fix that.

Well the Xcard is able to play pretty much everything you can throw at it - everything without Qpel and Hpel that is!

I've been able to create MP4 compliant encodes using Sorenson Squeeze 3.5, QuickTimePro. I've also been able create Mpeg4 video streams with DivX, 6Ch AAC audio streams using BeSweet and by using various tools posted on the forum, process, and slip them into an MP4 container.

The Xcard it's self does not require any specialist software, filters, codecs etc to play MP4 container encodes (or Mpeg4 DivX, XviD, Mp3, AAC, AC3 in an AVI container).

If Recode2 is ISO compliant, then you're right, the encodes should play... but they don't!

Cheers

[sarahjh69]

I do have a serial and I still can't select
5:1 sound.......oh well, never mind.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by sarahjh69
I do have a serial and I still can't select
5:1 sound.......oh well, never mind. Well I'm still totally bemused as to why it's able to work without Nero 6.3.0.0!

I've just tried again to generate an encode that my Xcard will like but still no joy!

It's a good job I've got a short music video DVD I'm able to use for testing purposes.

Cheers

EDIT: Yep, it would seem that despite selecting, Simple profile (QuickTime Compatibility). 'Half Pixel' (pel) coding still makes it's way into the encode.

I may be wrong but I don't think this is QuickTime or ISO compatible if you are unable to turn the sodding thing off!

[sarahjh69]

no, 5:1 does work, it was my fault.....
I had entered the serial in nero burning rom
then used nero digital....without ever trying nerovision express.
when I tried Nerovision express, it said demo mode and I
had to enter the serial again.
After entering the serial in Nerovision express, nero digital
would allow me to use dolby 5:1............

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by sarahjh69
no, 5:1 does work, it was my fault.....
I had entered the serial in nero burning rom
then used nero digital....without ever trying nerovision express.
when I tried Nerovision express, it said demo mode and I
had to enter the serial again.
After entering the serial in Nerovision express, nero digital
would allow me to use dolby 5:1............ That's interesting. As of yet I have not run Nero VisionExpress.

I wonder how long I will be able to use Recode2 if I don't run VisionExpress!

Can VisionExpress be purchased separately from Nero?

Cheers

[Stux]

Halfpel (pixel) motion is part of the MPEG-4 Simple Profile

[ThePanther]

Originally posted by Destron
Try checking your CPU temperature.

Destron

Temperature is fine.... max 69oC

[GravuTrad]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
That's interesting. As of yet I have not run Nero VisionExpress.

I wonder how long I will be able to use Recode2 if I don't run VisionExpress!

Can VisionExpress be purchased separately from Nero?

Cheers

Yes, Nerovision express can be purchased separately (pack 2 of nero suite) like the Nero Media Player, what's why sarahjh69 has could have nero recode with dolby 5.1...
You can have it without Nero burning rom...

And the nerodigital codec is great.

[Longinus]

DVD to MP4 opinion.

Nero Recode 2 is VERY, VERY FAST. It gives me about 50 fps.
For the quality, it's nice. Not VERY nice, but nice. One thing I noticied is that post-processing is NOT turned -on by default in the codec, when I play in Media Player Classic (In Nero player, it's prob. on). If I turn on the post-processing filters, the quality improves to nice. Without it, it's very bad. And the codec doesn't seem to be able to save the preferences... reseting the settings every run.

I didn't test it a lot, just used the regular options (plus selected dual pass instead of single)... They all worked fine. I need to test a little bit more, using the advanced stuff... maybe quality can improve more (taking more time to render, of course)..

But I have to tell you.... the speedddddd..... it's so nicee. =D

[SurfDrifter]

Is it possible to use the codec for other uses, besides DVD conversion?

I was hoping to use it with After effects, but i couldn't see the codec in the pulldown list...

[Tuning]

Originally posted by SurfDrifter
Is it possible to use the codec for other uses, besides DVD conversion?
I was hoping to use it with After effects, but i couldn't see the codec in the pulldown list...
This is not possible untill ahead developers decide to make a vfw version.

[Baalthazaar]

Originally posted by ThePanther
Temperature is fine.... max 69oC

If your processor is actually running at those temps during encodes then your problem is definately heat. Even if you have a motherboard with a poor temp sensor I've never heard of one off by more than 10oC and there's no way you'll make it through a full encode even if we assume your temps are inflated. Go and download prime95 and see if you can run it consistently without errors/crashes. If not, you likely have a heat problem.

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

You could also test with Sandra or some other CPU intensive app, looping 3DMark'01 for a few hours for instance. I'd recommend Prime95, however, because it will report errors if it doesn't crash immediately.

[McoreD]

Originally posted by plazz2000
Hi,

Maybe someone can help me out here, in Recode2 there are 3 options:

Copy Entire DVD to DVD
Remake DVD
Copy DVD to NeroDigital
etc...
John.

Hi there,

I had the exact problem. Uninstalling, Deleting the reg keys, Installing and Restarting didn't help me either.

Go to Start Smart and click the big NERO button. Click serial numbers and delete all the previous version keys. Then start Nero Burning ROM and it will ask for the key. Now insert your 6.3.0.0 key and everything will work fine after that.

[DarkDudae]

I uninstalled NeVideo.ax to try decode a ND video using FFDSHOW and CoreAAC, and well, CoreAAC opens the audio perfectly. However, I can´t manage to ffdshow opens the vídeo (configuring it to open any MPEG-4 video). Maybe it is problem of the container?

About the quality... it is not a wonder... but it is really easy, and fast to use.

Regards

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Stux
Halfpel (pixel) motion is part of the MPEG-4 Simple Profile Thanks for the clarification.

Well, that's confused me even more now. Assuming that QuickTime Pro uses Halfpel as default in their encodes. Why is it their files play fine with the Xcard and Recode2's don't?

Cheers

EDIT: I'm wondering if it might be something to do with the AAC audio. Up to this morning I just used Nero's ShowTime to see if the encodes worked. However, I found earlier today that despite WMP9 being able to play both the audio and video streams of a Recode2 encode (slide bar dosn't work though). MPC (v6.4.7.2) can only play the video stream. The following 'Warning' appears: -

Stream 1

Media Type 0:
--------------------------
AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {4134504D-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 0
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 20

WAVEFORMATEX:
wFormatTag: 0x0000
nChannels: 2
nSamplesPerSec: 48000
nAvgBytesPerSec: 0
nBlockAlign: 0
wBitsPerSample: 0
cbSize: 2 (extra bytes)

I guess Recode2 does not like the Core AAC DS filter I've installed. When everything else does!

I wonder if Recode2 will allow me to generate a 'Video only' encode from my DVD source. If my Xcard can cope with just the video stream encode, then I think it's fair to assume the problem is with the audio!

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
WAVEFORMATEX:
wFormatTag: 0x0000
nChannels: 2
nSamplesPerSec: 48000
nAvgBytesPerSec: 0
nBlockAlign: 0
wBitsPerSample: 0
cbSize: 2 (extra bytes)

I guess Recode2 does not like the Core AAC DS filter I've installed. When everything else does!


Ahead people decided to use another wFormat tag than anybody else until now. Nic selected 0x00FF for his 'crappy beta' AAC filter, and since then anybody else, including the 3ivX people, were using the same one.

BTW, i wonder what wFormat tag alexnoe will use for his AAC-in-AVI implementation, and how mayn different wFormat tags will pop-up as there is no 'official' tag defined from the MPAA ;) .... confusion and frustration of the users are guaranteed, this shit really should never had happened, at least an 'official' GUID for playback on DShow should have been defined by them....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Ahh! Thanks Christian,

I think we are getting nearer to the heart of the problem. Maybe the Xcard does not like this wFormatTag either!

Why is everything like this so difficult to standardise?

Maybe everybody on the Doom9 forum should get together to create our own official "Unofficial A/V Regulative Association" or UAVRA!

Joking apart, it might not be such a stupid idea!

What do you think?

Cheers

EDIT: I forgot to ask. What AAC filter are people using in order to listen to the Recode2 audio stream with MPC?

[McoreD]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I found earlier today that despite WMP9 being able to play both the audio and video streams of a Recode2 encode (slide bar dosn't work though).

However subtitles won't work in Windows Media Player if I not wrong.
Subtitles worked for me only in Nero ShowTime. QuickTime didn't show either. Can anybody please confirm?

[bond]

the subs nero puts into .mp4 are not mpeg-4 spec compliant and will only be shown in their own players

edit: and did i already say that i hate it if progs steal extensions :devil:

[Doom9]

the subs nero puts into .mp4 are not mpeg-4 spec compliant and will only be shown in their own players
Same goes for the chapter information.

and did i already say that i hate it if progs steal extensions I'm with you on that.. all my media files are now labelled "Nero ShowTime Files" and I'm not particularly fond of any player but WMP and MPC. At least ShowTime also plays DVDs but I wished I were asked if I really wanted to make those changes.

[bobololo]

I'd like to bring some clarifications about ND mp4 files, Subtitles and Chapters support as it seems to generate much discussions, lack of understanding, etc. I hope this could enlight you on the way it is done and why.

Basically, the mpeg-4 standard doesn't specify a way to handle subtitles and chapters. That is to say the notion of movie subtitles and chapters doesn't exist in the standard. From that assumption, there is no reason to say subtiltes or chapters are ISO compliant or not since there is no spec for this.

However mpeg-4 is a very rich standard and provide several tools one can use to implement the support of subtitles and chapters. For the subtitles, we can have :

- 2D BIFS
- Streaming Text Format (14496-17)
- private data

The first approach (2D BIFS) consists in the use of the complex mpeg-4 system layer to describe a presentation composed of multiple objects (audio stream, video stream, 2D bitmap, etc.). In the absolute this should be the best way to implement subtitles. However, due to its complexity it would involve a lot of work for us which simply means more delay before the release ! Beside this constraint, we were also faced to the fact that such complex system management would become a real headache on embedded platforms (ie standalones) were resource are extrexemly limited. Therefore a fast adoption of MP4 format in this area. Just imagine us telling standalone manufacturers : to support MP4 it's quite easy, just read the 1000 pages of mpeg-4 BIFS system standard, then make it fit in your 16 kB of memory and you'll get it ! You'll understand that solution was not reasonable for us and that's why we prefer in our first stage to not use this implementation. But in futur evolutions, the addition of new features like menus, interactivity, and with the spreading of more powerful chips, we may seriously consider this solution.

The second solution "Streaming Text Format" is a new part of the standard not approved yet. It uses text data rather than bitmap for the subtitles and relies on the previous system layer. Considering subtitles in DVD are bitmap it would require some OCR process. In conclusion this solution is even harder to implement (imagine bitmap to unicode conversion for chinese or arabic language !). So we coulnd't choose this way.

And finaly the last solution uses mp4 file user data to store our info. Since the mp4 file provides private data space, we simply put our compressed data here. These user data must be discarded by decoders that don't know how to handle them so that shouldn't hurt.
This was the best compromise we found and basically this doesn't differ much from other system like vobsub which stores data in a file beside.

For the chapter list, we applied the same recipe since there was no really other mean to achieve this.

I hope this clarify a little bit things and help you to understand why these choice were done.

And last but not least, for those who are concerned about ND MP4 files support on their standalone, be sure we're making much efforts in promoting ISO MP4 support in standalones. Discussions are on the way and hopefuly mp4 support will come quite soon.

[Longinus]

MPC (v6.4.7.2) can only play the video stream. The following 'Warning' appears: -

I guess Recode2 does not like the Core AAC DS filter I've installed. When everything else does!


Get the newest CoreAAC DS filter....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Longinus
Get the newest CoreAAC DS filter.... I thought I had the newest version. But it turns out it wasn't!

It turns out that v1.0b8 does the trick.

Thanks

[unixfs]

Originally posted by bobololo

And last but not least, for those who are concerned about ND MP4 files support on their standalone, be sure we're making much efforts in promoting ISO MP4 support in standalones. Discussions are on the way and hopefuly mp4 support will come quite soon.

Good, but in the meantime I want to use my standalone without buying
another one.
I tried to remux the MP4 file to avi,
but it seems that neither ffdshow nor ffvfw can decode the video stream.
Arent XVID and LAVC compatible with Nero's MP4V?

Since Nero is already able to encode to mp3, why doesn't Recode
give the option to encode to mp3 or wav or to embed the original AC3? Or to mux to AVI?

Quality and speed seem to be good; I like the product, but
the current limitations make it unusable for me;
I'll stick to xvid until ND can generate AVI files.

Thanks.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
And last but not least, for those who are concerned about ND MP4 files support on their standalone, be sure we're making much efforts in promoting ISO MP4 support in standalones. Discussions are on the way and hopefully mp4 support will come quite soon. Are you able to clarify which standalone manufacturers you will be talking too please?

Many people with standalones will be relieved to know!

Cheers

[bobololo]

Originally posted by unixfs
Good, but in the meantime I want to use my standalone without buying
another one.

Your standalone could receive a firmware update to allow this support.


I tried to remux the MP4 file to avi,
but it seems that neither ffdshow nor ffvfw can decode the video stream.
Arent XVID and LAVC compatible with Nero's MP4V?


Quite strange, AFAIK our mpeg-4 video stream should be decoded correctly with libavcodec (ffmpeg). Several people reported me they succeeded doing that. What do you get exactly ? Maybe it's just a FOURCC issue ?


Since Nero is already able to encode to mp3, why doesn't Recode
give the option to encode to mp3 or wav or to embed the original AC3? Or to mux to AVI?

Quality and speed seem to be good; I like the product, but
the current limitations make it unusable for me;
I'll stick to xvid until ND can generate AVI files.

Thanks.

Well this are some marketing strategies I won't discuss here. However I've just an inquiry. Suppose you get mp4 support on your standalone, considering mp4 provides subtitles, chapters, he-aac, asp, menus, and support for future h.264 codec. Is there any good reasons to get stick with AVI ?

[Doom9]

Is there any good reasons to get stick with AVI ?With a vfw codec (even Microsoft is offering one), you can use all the AVI editing tools on the market. It will take years for another container to ever get the same kind of support. If you're into video editing these days there's just no way around AVI. Editing anything else is cumbersome (okay, we do have VDubMod which supports OGM and Matroska so at least there we have some flexibility, but it's far from all the tools that support just AVI).

[unixfs]

Originally posted by bobololo
Your standalone could receive a firmware update to allow this support.



I hope it, but I won't believe it until I see it.
My player is an el-cheapest Nortek NDVX 100, based on ESS Vibrato I chipset.


Quite strange, AFAIK our mpeg-4 video stream should be decoded correctly with libavcodec (ffmpeg). Several people reported me they succeeded doing that. What do you get exactly ? Maybe it's just a FOURCC issue ?


I changed both in VDUBMod and in Avichange, but no version of
VD could decode the content.
My ffvfw is a build dated 20032810.


Well this are some marketing strategies I won't discuss here. However I've just an inquiry. Suppose you get mp4 support on your standalone, considering mp4 provides subtitles, chapters, he-aac, asp, menus, and support for future h.264 codec. Is there any good reasons to get stick with AVI ?

None. I'd switch immediately to ND.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Doom9 With a vfw codec (even Microsoft is offering one), you can use all the AVI editing tools on the market. ... this is, until you get hold of an AVI with Vorbis or AAC inside. Its maybe possible to hack this stuff into AVI using special programs like avi-mux GUI, nandub or vdubmod, but there is no way to support a VBR audio stream via the ACM API, so any normal video editor will just fail on these kind of files, and AVIs 'great wide spread editing support' is pointless ....

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
...Suppose you get mp4 support on your standalone, considering mp4 provides subtitles, chapters, he-aac, asp, menus, and support for future h.264 codec. Is there any good reasons to get stick with AVI ? Talking about supporting subtitles, chapters, menus etc is one thing. But as you've said yourself "the mpeg-4 standard doesn't specify a way to handle subtitles and chapters" so handling menu's is probably not specified too!

As you may already be aware, bond (one of our moderators) has been working on how to create a menu (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66583). I think it would make sense to adopt some kind of a standard that would work for both software and hardware player users!

Also bearing in mind that the Sigma Xcard is the only current way of decoding MP4 container files, you may find it helpful to obtain one of these cards to test with your product.

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
so handling menu's is probably not specified too!
As you may already be aware, bond (one of our moderators) has been working on how to create a menu (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66583).mp4 files produced with my mp4menu are 100% compliant to the mpeg-4 systems standard (which allows already the creation of subtitles, chapters and menus in mp4 as mp4menu already prooves)

Originally posted by bobololo
The first approach (2D BIFS) consists in the use of the complex mpeg-4 system layer to describe a presentation composed of multiple objects (audio stream, video stream, 2D bitmap, etc.). In the absolute this should be the best way to implement subtitles. However, due to its complexity it would involve a lot of work for us which simply means more delay before the release ! Beside this constraint, we were also faced to the fact that such complex system management would become a real headache on embedded platforms (ie standalones) were resource are extrexemly limited. Therefore a fast adoption of MP4 format in this area. Just imagine us telling standalone manufacturers : to support MP4 it's quite easy, just read the 1000 pages of mpeg-4 BIFS system standard, then make it fit in your 16 kB of memory and you'll get it !yes mpeg-4 systems is quite complex as it offers much more than only chapters, menus aso...

but just because it offers much possibilities it doesnt mean that decoding needs much processor power at least thats what jeanlf from gpac/enst said. according to him the decoding of such content should be already possible on existing standalones cpu wise


it somehow seems to me that developers are just to lazy to implement the big mpeg-4 systems standard in their products and prefer hacking own easier standards into mp4 (yes i know private data is allowed blabla...) :p
they simply fear to touch bifs...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
mp4 files produced with my mp4menu are 100% compliant to the mpeg-4 systems standard (which allows already the creation of subtitles, chapters and menus in mp4 as mp4menu already prooves)... Well that's good to know.

Lets hope the guys at Nero will adopt your 100% compliant approach and maybe even adopt your application in some way!

Keep up the excellent work. Cheers

[riggits]

(edit: I am UNABLE to preview the video in Recode2, nor can I watch my encodes in the ShowTime. NeroDigital movies only work in QuickTime, which doesn't even post-filter the video, so it looks like pure $hit. Reinstallation after elimination of all registry entries of Nero didn't fix the problem.)


does anybody know how to display the video part of a NeroDigital-encoded movie?? I encoded my video using Recode2, and got an MP4 file which won't play in anything other than QuickTime.
I tried Nero's own ShowTime, and it plays the audio fine but won't recognize the video part at all. The option Preferences->Video->"Hide video window" is unselected. Here are the errors from my other video players:
WMP 6.4: "Unable to download an appropriate decompressor. (Error=80040200)
No combination of filters could be found to render the stream. (Error=80040218)"

WMP 9: just plays audio, but no video.

Media Player Classic 6.4: cannot render any of the streams (the error messages are huge, and there are many of them)

WinAmp 5: only plays audio

.. anybody know what might be wrong here??
It's possible that I just don't have the NeroDigital decoder installed, but wouldn't that be included in the brand new ShowTime??

(edit2: I installed Nero (the full retail package) on another computer, and ShowTime plays the video, kinda. The thing is, it looks like it's only playing the keyframes - nothing in between. Also, no post-filtering is going on. My other media players hang upon trying to open the NeroDigital files. I have no idea what's up, and Nero's support site contains nothing remotely relevant)

[Doom9]

... this is, until you get hold of an AVI with Vorbis or AAC inside. Its maybe possible to hack this stuff into AVI using special programs like avi-mux GUI, nandub or vdubmod, but there is no way to support a VBR audio stream via the ACM API, so any normal video editor will just fail on these kind of files, and AVIs 'great wide spread editing support' is pointless ....I'm fully aware of that, yet the video world is centered around just that format. We're in the lucky position to be able to choose, but if you're working with an NLE tool, AVI is basically your only shot. And if you want to change AVI's domination I believe you have to get the Adobes and Uleads of this world to start using something else because that's where the money is.

[unixfs]

If Ahead is serious about establishing
a standard format, they should provide at least some editing/cutting/merging
tool for MP4 files, maybe in the form of an extension of VdubMod.
There isn't anything like this in the packages released sunday.

What (commercial) software can edit MOV files? Will they be able to edit ND's MP4s?

[Doom9]

What (commercial) software can edit MOV files? Will they be able to edit ND's MP4s?Quicktime pro certainly. And QT can edit ND files provided that you use the simple profile (which amongst other limitations seriously limits the bitrate and resolution to areas that are not interesting for us).

[Stux]

Originally posted by Doom9
Quicktime pro certainly. And QT can edit ND files provided that you use the simple profile (which amongst other limitations seriously limits the bitrate and resolution to areas that are not interesting for us).

Well, Simple Profile is actually the set of tools you can use in the encode (half pel etc), where as the levels are the bitrate/resolution.

So you can use an undefined level of Simple Profile and still edit with QT

For example Simple Profile @ Level 3 or Level 2 is still Simple Profile

Of course, some levels prevent the use of some tools, so for example, SP@Level 0 prevents the use of ac prediction and adaptive quantization at the same time (iirc)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by riggits
...I am UNABLE to preview the video in Recode2.. I suspect that's part of the reason why I can't play NeroDigital movies.)

Hi! does anybody know how to display the video part of a NeroDigital-encoded movie Well your encodes should certainly play using ShowTime (and WMP9). Maybe you should reinstall Recode2 and try generating some new encodes!

As far as MPC goes. After you've established that your Recode2 encodes play using ShowTime you will need to make sure you've got the newest version of the COREaac DirectShow filter installed. Or you won't be able to listen to the audio - like what happened to me!

Also, you could try playing your encodes using an up to date version of QuickTime.

Cheers

[unixfs]

You can use VLC, which doesn't use dshow codecs and is much lighter.
www.videolan.net

[ThePanther]

Destron & Baalthazaar

Thanks guys for your help, my processor running idle was at 55oC and when running prime95 went up to 75oC extremely quickly. The reason I think is that my case was an old case where the CPU was located almost behind the PSU.

I went out today bought myself a new case, 2 system fans and a new CoolMaster Aero 7+ CPU Fan.

CPU now running at 36-37oC when idle and when running prime95, with Torture test with "In-Place large FFTs (maximum heat etc), the CPU only gets up to 43-44oC.

Nero Digital encode with no problems, no machine resets.

Again guys, thanks a million I would never have checked the CPU Temp.
:)

[KitKat]

So, I'm looking for the following checkbox to uncheck it but can't find it anywhere:

[x] Associate Nero Showtime with all file extensions known to mankind


So what am I supposed to do now? Re-associate by hand all 8341 media types? And mind you, if I ever do that, it'll only be "weak" asociations, the kind that you can't configure, only revert back to what they were "originally" (i.e. Showtime...!!) :mad:

[Jaques]

Originally posted by ThePanther
Thanks guys for your help, my processor running idle was at 55oC and when running prime95 went up to 75oC extremely quickly. The reason I think is that my case was an old case where the CPU was located almost behind the PSU.
Christ! You're lucky that 75oC didn't kill it. Hadn't you ever noticed stability problems before?

[ookzDVD]

@forum,

C'mon let's talk about the result!
Anyone have tried the DVD -> NeroDigital (1CD) ?
How is the result anyway ?

[Jaques]

It looks to me about as good as xvid, but much faster.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@forum,

C'mon let's talk about the result!
Anyone have tried the DVD -> NeroDigital (1CD) ?
How is the result anyway ?

I would say its in between DivX and XviD. The detail level is some what better than DivX but not comparable with XviD. (Bcoz XviD preserves high detail :))
Though the bitrate was above 1500k, hence i think at lower bitrate ND will suffer.

I'm still XviD fan!

[ThePanther]

Originally posted by Jaques
Christ! You're lucky that 75oC didn't kill it. Hadn't you ever noticed stability problems before?

No, hever had them, even when enoding to DivX, only seem'd to happen then encoding using Nero Digital.

[bond]

Originally posted by Tuning
Considering speed, even with most settings I could get around 1.5X realtime encoding a 24 fps movie in pass1 and 1X in pass2.(P4-1.4Ghz)beaware when comparing speed with other codecs, that most people use divx5/xvid with avs and mpeg2dec3, mpeg2dec3 isnt really a fast mpeg-2 decoder, the one from recode seems to be much faster...

[bobololo]

Originally posted by bond
beaware when comparing speed with other codecs, that most people use divx5/xvid with avs and mpeg2dec3, mpeg2dec3 isnt really a fast mpeg-2 decoder, the one from recode seems to be much faster...

Also, don't forget that the (HE-)AAC audio is encoded in the same time ;)

Anyway, even recode mpeg-2 decoder is much faster than mpeg2dec3 (which can't be considered as a slow decoder), realize that we're speaking about 5x to 10x (or should I say 500% to 1000% ;) faster for the complete encoding (not a couple of percent).

[gino25]

Is there a possibiliti to use mpeg-2 decoder (of nero recode) in avisyneth?

[riggits]

I finally got a NeroDigital encode to work!! unfortunately it hasn't worked since that time, but the quality was superb. I would say it retained considerably more detail than DivX 5.1.1 with similar settings, even though the speed was practically identical (Recode2 vs. Dr. DivX 1.04)
I wish there was a way to make my movies play every time, reliably.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by riggits
...I wish there was a way to make my movies play every time, reliably. Why, what's happening?

That said, people like us experiment with different encoding applications will, at some time, experience instability problems!

If you are suffering such problems, it may be time for you to format your PC and reinstall the applications you like best.... It's surprising what a difference it can make.

Cheers

[Tuning]

Originally posted by bond
beaware when comparing speed with other codecs, that most people use divx5/xvid with avs and mpeg2dec3, mpeg2dec3 isnt really a fast mpeg-2 decoder, the one from recode seems to be much faster...

&
Originally posted by bobololo
Also, don't forget that the (HE-)AAC audio is encoded in the same time ;)

Anyway, even recode mpeg-2 decoder is much faster than mpeg2dec3 (which can't be considered as a slow decoder), realize that we're speaking about 5x to 10x (or should I say 500% to 1000% ;) faster for the complete encoding (not a couple of percent).

pardon me, bond and bobololo. What I posted resulted a childish post.

Edited to correct it.
Thanks.

[ToiletDuck]

Is there a way to split the files once created? I made one to go onto two disk and can't find out how to split them

[bond]

Originally posted by ToiletDuck
Is there a way to split the files once created? I made one to go onto two disk and can't find out how to split them that isnt possible atm

[Jaques]

Originally posted by ToiletDuck
Is there a way to split the files once created? I made one to go onto two disk and can't find out how to split them

For now you're just going to have to set the start and end point to get the size you want, that's the only way I can see how to split it.

[Ishan]

there's a simple way to do a 2CD encode. Just encode half of the chapters as 1CD THEN the other half as 1CD. TDADAAAA u got ur 2CD encode :)

[chilledoutuk]

Ok everyone seems to be talking a lot on this thread but not saying very much.

Let me start something firstly people say you cant to a 2 cd rip well that’s tripe.

All you have to do is this

- select the title you want to encode then add it twice to the encode field.
- Then select the first encode and click on start/end

- in the windows that pops up simply click on the end frame chapter pull down and select a chapter close to the middle(IE if 24 chapters chapter 12) and click ok.

- now select the second title and then again click on start/end when the window appears select the next chapter (i.e. 13) as the start frame and click ok (if you want you can remove most of the credits here as well to save space by adjusting the end frame).

- Now adjust the bitrate of each title until the predicted filesize is as close to the media capacity as possible.

Now setup the rest of the settings as you normally would.

you can of course not use chapters and just find a scene change and adjust the end of the first encode and the start of the second to that.

Now For A major advantage for MP4 over AVI
=====================================

Now we all should know that the majority of 16:9 pal DVDs are 720x576 and that it is simple stretched to correct aspect by specification in the ifo's or the mpeg2 itself.
Well it seems MP4 has inherited this ability and Nero can implement it. This means the same widescreen res as DVDs. (from my tests quality is improved)

Its simple just disable resize in the video settings it will now create a 720x576 (minus any cropping) encode that plays back in perfect aspect.

[chilledoutuk]

hey man ur reading my mind but i made it simple for them.

definetly try the 576 verticle res out it will decrease fps but thats to be expected with higher res's

[Stux]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
Now For A major advantage for MP4 over AVI
=====================================

Now we all should know that the majority of 16:9 pal DVDs are 720x576 and that it is simple stretched to correct aspect by specification in the ifo's or the mpeg2 itself.
Well it seems MP4 has inherited this ability and Nero can implement it. This means the same widescreen res as DVDs. (from my tests quality is improved)

Its simple just disable resize in the video settings it will now create a 720x576 (minus any cropping) encode that plays back in perfect aspect.

3ivx D4 4.5 implemented this. The good news is the decoder will work with any other MP4 which uses PAR encoding. And yes full resolution anamorphic encodes do look very nice

[ookzDVD]

@forum,

Da*n, it's been a week and I've not got the Nero Encode 2 to work :(
It seems Nero needs new DirectX 9.0a or above :(
hmmmmmm.....

[snowcrash]

Originally posted by KitKat
So, I'm looking for the following checkbox to uncheck it but can't find it anywhere:

[x] Associate Nero Showtime with all file extensions known to mankind


So what am I supposed to do now? Re-associate by hand all 8341 media types? And mind you, if I ever do that, it'll only be "weak" asociations, the kind that you can't configure, only revert back to what they were "originally" (i.e. Showtime...!!) :mad:

I've been looking for this too with no luck. Showtime has taken over all my video file extensions. There is no way to install Recode without also installing this awful Showtime app. How annoying.

[ToiletDuck]

do most of you encode movies at full size? I usually resize and crop them.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by snowcrash
I've been looking for this too with no luck. Showtime has taken over all my video file extensions. There is no way to install Recode without also installing this awful Showtime app. How annoying.
If you are using Media Player Classic then you have to worry no more!.

Go -> options -> formats -> autoplay -> select video -> Apply.

This restores MPC's monopoly over video files!. btw, the icons will not be changed, but double clicking will open in MPC.

Long live MPC! :D

[Jaques]

Originally posted by ToiletDuck
do most of you encode movies at full size? I usually resize and crop them.

No, I alway's crop, no sense in hard coding black bars.

Oh, and long live MPC!:D

[Teegedeck]

These days, with highly efficient (...) audio and video codecs, more and more material doesn't need downsizing.

Long live MPC!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Stux
3ivx D4 4.5 implemented this. The good news is the decoder will work with any other MP4 which uses PAR encoding. And yes full resolution anamorphic encodes do look very nice I affraid can't get this function to work properly!

I would be most grateful if an PAL 720x576 anamorphic test clip could be posted either here on Doom9 or on the 3viX web site.

Cheers

EDIT: Long live Xcard. Oh, and MPC

[gino25]

I' ve ask but noboby reply

It' s possible to use mpeg2decoder of nero digital in avisynth, instead og mpeg2dec3?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I just thought I would confirm my findings so far about generating MP4 container files that work in hardware.

I decided to encoded the same 50 second source file 3 times. First with Sorenson Squeeze 3.5 and again with QuickTime Pro 6.4: -

The Sorenson Squeeze 3.5 results are as follows: -

For the first encode I used - 2pass Mpeg4 video @ 1000kbps and AAC audio at 128kbps.
The encode played OK using both Sigma/XMediaPlayer and Sigma/JovePlayer.

For the second encode I used - 2pass Mpeg4 video only @ 1000kbps.
The encode played OK using both Sigma/XMediaPlayer and Sigma/JovePlayer.

For the third encode I used - AAC audio only @ 128kbps.
The encode played OK using Sigma/JovePlayer. But not at all with Sigma/XMediaPlayer


The QuickTime Pro 6.4 results are as follows: -

For the first encode I used - 1pass Mpeg4 video @ 998kbps and AAC audio at 128kbps.
The encode played OK using Sigma/JovePlayer. But not at all with Sigma/XMediaPlayer

For the second encode I used - 1pass Mpeg4 video only @ 998kbps.
The encode played OK using Sigma/JovePlayer. But not at all with Sigma/XMediaPlayer

For the third encode I used - AAC audio only @ 128kbps.
The encode played OK using Sigma/JovePlayer. But not at all with Sigma/XMediaPlayer

Again Recode2 encodes do not work at all. Ahead/Nero developers, please take note!

If it's this difficult to get MP4 container files to work with just one hardware manufacturers chipset. What is going to happen when MP4 container upgrades become available to 'standalone' player users?

If there are other people out there who are able to post short MP4 container encodes, please do so so I can test them in hardware too!

Cheers

[bobololo]

Originally posted by gino25
I' ve ask but noboby reply

It' s possible to use mpeg2decoder of nero digital in avisynth, instead og mpeg2dec3?

I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's possible to connect the video source to the nero decoder filter. So using a DirectShowSource() you may exploit the mpeg2 decoder. Someone will have to try.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I just thought I would confirm my findings so far about generating MP4 container files that work in hardware.

[...]

Again Recode2 encodes do not work at all. Ahead/Nero developers, please take note!



Did you try an encode without the b-frame ? We've been reported about an "optional" missing atom (ctts) in our mp4 file when b-frame are present. Actually it's mandatory, but most players handle this without problems you should play ND files with quicktime for instance.

This issue is fixed and will come in the next update.

Beside this missing atom, our file is normaly compliant with the standard (those guys from 3ivx could tell you about it, they dissected our files ;)) and we don't have any idea of what could explain your problem. Maybe can you submit a short file to Sigma Designs so they can have a look and say more easily what's going wrong ? It would be more efficient than us trying to reverse engineer they player to track out the problem.

[chilledoutuk]

ok heres a short clip encoded I with recode at 720x576 anamorphic 16:9. V nice me thinks

Here (http://www.aoul98.dsl.pipex.com/toy.mp4)

[temporance]

Found some more compliance issues with chilledoutuk's sample. [I can't get recode to work for myself]:

- the ES_ID in the ES descriptors is not 0
- the OD track is not the same duration as the movie

Also there is some mysterious private data in the file -- "ndrm". Could this possibly be "Nero Digital Rights Managem......." ???

[chilledoutuk]

erm what u trying to play it back with if your having problems then i sugest you try video lan as that plays everthing.

The private data is for chapters and subtitles as someone from the nero team has mentioned this.

[calinb]

Originally posted by riggits
I would say it retained considerably more detail than DivX 5.1.1 with similar settings, even though the speed was practically identical (Recode2 vs. Dr. DivX 1.04)I believe I found a problem with mv files in Dr. DivX. Even though mv files are supposed to be disabled in slow and slowest, they apparently are not (reported in Dr. DivX forum). One workaround is to deny read privileges on the mv file. If you encode that way, you'll likely find the Dr. DivX quality improves signficiantly, but the encode times also increase because you've blocked the mv file usage.

[bullitB]

Another PAR Test Encode (http://thegoods.ath.cx/~hmason/Attack-of-the-Clones-Trailer.mp4), if anyone was looking for it. This one has the dimensions set in the container, so it plays back at the right size in QuickTime.

[temporance]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
erm what u trying to play it back with if your having problems then i sugest you try video lan as that plays everthing.

The private data is for chapters and subtitles as someone from the nero team has mentioned this. I can play it back fine - it's one of the most compliant .mp4's I've seen. I'm really just nit-picking.

It looks like two atoms are contained in the private data of your file (unprintable chars shown as spaces:

"chpl Chapter 1"
"ndrm "

[vinkes]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@forum,

C'mon let's talk about the result!
Anyone have tried the DVD -> NeroDigital (1CD) ?
How is the result anyway ?

I tried nero digital last night, I couldn't get it to install properly at first, but after installing nero ultra 6.0 again it worked. anyways, speed is very high, on my athlon xp 2300mhz. I got 45 fps with a resolution of 576x416.
I tried jackie brown aiming at 1380mb. Quality is pretty good, but not xvid, it looks more like divx 5.1.1. I also did a xvid encode, which looks much better. Both xvid and nero digital had about the same filesize, but on nd I noticed much more musquito noise but no really moving macroblocks.
conclusion: although visual quality and compression isn't as good as divx 5.1 or xvid, it's speed makes up a lot and it's very noob-friendly.

[bond]

i also seem to have some issues with nd:
- first of all i have to say again and again: why the hell is there no vob/d2v/avi/avs input possible in recode2? :(
- i have some artifacts when i enable b-frame. its for example especially visible on faces
- it seems nd is not using the mediatypes other mpeg-4 implementations use (coreaac already had to add the special nero mediatype to be able to play nero aac files), which seems to can result in incompatibility with other mpeg-4 dshow filters who dont explicitely know them!
- i cant get the nd decoder filter to work properly
first it seems to resize the movie to 1:1 sometimes (i of course disabled the ar feature)
second it seems that the decoder only wants to display subs in showtime

- some people reported hardware playback problems, dunno exactly what the reason is (i guess its the unsupported 4cc)

Originally posted by temporance
it's one of the most compliant .mp4's I've seenyup, but remember that subs and chapters in recode2 are not mpeg-4 spec compliant!

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
Did you try an encode without the b-frame ? We've been reported about an "optional" missing atom (ctts) in our mp4 file when b-frame are present. Actually it's mandatory, but most players handle this without problems you should play ND files with quicktime for instance. Yep, the settings you mention are the ones I've been using from the start, I'm afraid

Originally posted by bobololo
This issue is fixed and will come in the next update.
Beside this missing atom, our file is normaly compliant with the standard (those guys from 3ivx could tell you about it, they dissected our files ) and we don't have any idea of what could explain your problem. Well at least you recognise that there is a problem! Unfortunately, I'm stuck in a catch 22 situation. As at the moment I have not purchased a copy of Nero6/Recode2 (just Nero5.5 that came with a burner drive). So I feel a bit cheeky complaining about it.

That said, this is a product that I have been waiting to arrive for quite some time, so I would like to continue testing Recode2, with a view to purchase once the bugs are ironed out!

Originally posted by bobololo
Maybe can you submit a short file to Sigma Designs so they can have a look and say more easily what's going wrong ? It would be more efficient than us trying to reverse engineer they player to track out the problem.I've already sent encodes to both Sigma and JovePlayer. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of it.

Many thanks

[menno]

Originally posted by temporance
- the ES_ID in the ES descriptors is not 0
What's the problem with that? The standard explicitly forbids the usage of 0 for ES_ID.

Menno

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bullitB
Another PAR Test Encode (http://thegoods.ath.cx/~hmason/Attack-of-the-Clones-Trailer.mp4), if anyone was looking for it. This one has the dimensions set in the container, so it plays back at the right size in QuickTime. This is another weird one for me!

The encode refuses to work with the Sigma Xcard/XmediaPlayer but works fine with the Sigma Xcard/JovePlayer!

At least the PAR function works (in hardware too) which is nice.

Can you provide any information about the tools that were used to create the encode?

Cheers

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention. So far only bonds 'menu' encode works perfectly with both the Xcard/XmediaPlayer and the Xcard/JovePlayer. So I have to ask, what tools did you use????

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention. So far only bonds 'menu' encode works perfectly with both the Xcard/XmediaPlayer and the Xcard/JovePlayer. So I have to ask, what tools did you use????i used mp4box from gpac

perhaps the xmediaplayer also has problems with asp?

also try to mux the stream into avi (make sure to change the 4cc to something the player might know!)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
i used mp4box from gpac

as i wrote above there are some issues where nero seems to go another way than other mpeg-4 implementations (i dont really know whats the sense behind that, but its sad :(

perhaps the xmediaplayer has problems with asp?
also try to mux the stream into avi (make sure to change the 4cc to something the player might know!) I'm actually very interested in the tools you used to create the original video and audio streams. And then the tool you used to put the streams into the MP4 container?

I don't know about you, but I find it quite amazing that you have been able to do fiddle about with both the audio and video streams a lot more than others coders (in your quest to make your 'Menu' MP4 encode). And yet, you've still managed to create a encode that is recognised perfectly with my Xcard. Right down to the 6Ch audio stream!

In all seriousness, I would have thought, your encode would not have played with my hardware card at all.

So I guess I'm trying to workout what you are doing that's so right. That others are doing so wrong :)

Cheers mate, yer the man!

[bond]

Originally posted by bond
- qpel playback doesnt work with most decoder filters (ffdshow, xvid...) some wierd color issues
the ahead guys meant that because they use another idct than most decoders around, i hope they fix it cause qpel helps sharpness a lot (also in nd)hm, i was wrong
ND uses like XviD, Divx5 and 3ivx the walken idct
the problem was that i changed the 4cc of the ND content to XviD and when playing this content in ffdshow or divx5 the decoders thought that it is some old xvid/divx5 version and applied a workaround which lead to problems
i now used the 3ivx 4cc (3iv2) or "MP4V" and playback is fine as no workaround gets applied!

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I'm actually very interested in the tools you used to create the original video and audio streams. And then the tool you used to put the streams into the MP4 container?well as i said, i guess the problem is that you are trying to play advanced simple profile content (qpel, gmc)

try a simple profile encode (nero digital offers a switch for that (quicktime compatibility)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
well as i said, i guess the problem is that you are trying to play advanced simple profile content (qpel, gmc)

try a simple profile encode (nero digital offers a switch for that (quicktime compatibility) No way I'm afraid! All these functions have been disabled from my Recode2 encodes including Bframes. So it's nothing to do with that, even with or without QuickTime compatibility!

This is why I'm so interested in the tools some of you guys are using to create your MP4 container encodes. And your encode seems to be the only one that appears to work perfectly with my hardware plyer - except the interactive element ofcourse!

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
No way I'm afraid! All these functions have been disabled from my Recode2 encodes including Bframes. So it's nothing to do with that, even with or without QuickTime compatibility!

This is why I'm so interested in the tools some of you guys are using to create your MP4 container encodes. And your encode seems to be the only one that appears to work perfectly with my hardware plyer - except the interactive element ofcourse!hm, interesting

perhaps its a good idea, if you demux a ND stream to avi, remux it with mp4box and look if this works!
than you will see if the problem is ND's bitstream or their container implementation

[unixfs]

How do you transmux an MP4 to avi?
Maybe my Dshow is totally messed up (is there a way to recover it, other
than reformatting?) but using Graphedit, even with 3ivx filters, I get only crashes when I try to link Avimux and the output of ND's demuxer.

[bond]

there are many tools which can do it! check out my mp4 faq
perhaps mp4ui is the easiest

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well that was weird!

I ran an Recode2 encode thru' MP4UI and two tracks under 'other' appeared.

When I deleted them and exited MP4UI. A revised version of original my Recode2 encode was created. Which played fine using both the Xcard/XmediaPlayer and the Xcard/JovePlayer.

bond, you are far cleverer that I will ever be with this sort of thing..... Do you have any idea about what's going on?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I ran an Recode2 encode thru' MP4UI and two tracks under 'other' appeared.
When I deleted them and exited MP4UI. A revised version of original my Recode2 encode was created. Which played fine using both the Xcard/XmediaPlayer and the Xcard/JovePlayer.you mean "bifs" and "od"? hm i dont think that these two tracks cause the problems!? try it again without deleting them

did you set subs or chapters in recode2? perhaps xmediaplayer doesnt like these non-spec compliant things?

bond, you are far cleverer that I will ever be with this sort of thinglol i have no clue compared to some other guys around here ;)

[bullitB]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Can you provide any information about the tools that were used to create the encode?
(snip)
So I have to ask, what tools did you use????

I used an experimental version of DiVA (http://diva.3ivx.com/), a 3ivx-centric Mac OS X-based video encoder I've been developing with 3ivx 4.5. DiVA sets the pixel aspect ratio for 3ivx, which 3ivx should then add to the MPEG-4 stream it generates. I also set the size of the video track in the QuickTime container (using a special "TrackMatrix" property of QuickTime movies). Then I loaded that MOV-encapsulated 3ivx-encoded MPEG-4 video into QuickTime Pro and exported it as an MP4 (pass-through-ing the video and using QT's AAC encoder).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
you mean "bifs" and "od"? hm i dont think that these two tracks cause the problems!? try it again without deleting them.... did you set subs or chapters in recode2? perhaps xmediaplayer doesnt like these non-spec compliant things? OK it's like this.

I generated another encode with Recode2 taking care to disable both the 'Menu' under the 'Video' tab. And 'Pre-select the following subpicture tracks' under the 'Subpicture' tab. I then generated the encode as normal, selecting Simple Profile 'QuickTime' compatibility.

I then tried to play the encode in hardware but... it was a no go!

After creating some copies of the encode, I fed the one of them into MP4UI and deleted the 'BIFS' only. Saved the optimised file and... it played with no problems at all in hardware.

I then fed another one of the copies into MP4UI and deleted the 'OD' only. Saved the optimised file and... it too played with no problems at all in hardware.

Tomorrow I will generate some more encodes from the same source, without selecting Simple Profile 'QuickTime' compatibility. And run them thru' MP4UI to see what happens!

I would like to generate some test encodes with 6Ch AAC audio but can't because I'm only running the trial version of Recode2.

But yet again I'm confused as to why Recode2 can't generate compliant encodes. Hopefully the info I have produced might ring some bells with some of you guys?

Originally posted by bond
lol i have no clue compared to some other guys around here ;) You are far too modest my friend!

Cheers

[The Edge]

Ahead releases hotfix for Nero Recode on dual processor machines. The hotfix can be downloaded directly from Ahead's FTP-Server here (ftp://ftp.nero.com/Recode2.0.0.7Hotfix.exe) and here (ftp://ftp2.nero.com/Recode2.0.0.7Hotfix.exe)

Changelog:
Fixes problem with dual processor systems

Great tread by the way ;)

Edge

[SeeMoreDigital]

I keep meaning to ask but keep forgetting!

What does the aspect ratio unlock button do... exactly?

Cheers all you Recode2 fans.

[temporance]

Originally posted by menno
What's the problem with that? The standard explicitly forbids the usage of 0 for ES_ID.You're thinking of ES_ID when not in an mp4 file. The ES_ID written to a .mp4 file should always be 0 (ES_ID is conveyed in the track-id).
From section 13.2.2.1 'Elementary Stream Tracks'

The ESDescriptor for a stream within the scope of the MP4 file as described in this document is stored in the
sample description and the fields and included structures are restricted as follows: ES_ID - set to 0 as stored; when built into a TransMux, the lower 16 bits of the trackID is used.
This is from the 2001 2nd edition standard.

Anyway I finally got ND to work and apart from a pretty GUI I was not so impressed. The quality looks like DivX on 'Fast' mode - dark areas were covered with artefacts. The auto cropping left black bars at top and bottom. Audio / visual sync was way out: decoder running at 50% CPU.

I'm trying to do more objective tests/ comparisons of the codec but it's difficult with the way things are packaged. Anyone managed to get down to bottom line PSNR yet? A plot of PSNR vs. encode time (or log(encode time)) would be a useful way to compare against the other MPEG-4 encoders (xvid and DivX).

Edit: Sorry to be negative about recode - applications like this do show the way to go in the future. If you're a newbie who's not worried about video quality or interoperability with other players then I'd definitely consider recommending it to you.

[bond]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
After creating some copies of the encode, I fed the one of them into MP4UI and deleted the 'BIFS' only. Saved the optimised file and... it played with no problems at all in hardware.

I then fed another one of the copies into MP4UI and deleted the 'OD' only. Saved the optimised file and... it too played with no problems at all in hardware.i understand what you mean!

try this:
1) encode with recode as you did
2) load the file in mp4ui
3) dont change anything
4) save the file
5) see if playback works

Originally posted by temporance
[B]You're thinking of ES_ID when not in an mp4 file. The ES_ID written to a .mp4 file should always be 0 (ES_ID is conveyed in the track-id).
This is from the 2001 2nd edition standard.no, thats wrong or outdated!
each object, es must have its own es_id
so if you have 1 video and 1 audio stream you will have 4 different es_ids in the file

[temporance]

Originally posted by bond
no, thats wrong or outdated! each object, es must have its own es_id so if you have 1 video and 1 audio stream you will have 4 different es_ids in the file What version of the standard are you using, bond? Any chance of a copy?

As I understand it, ES_IDs are converted to track-ids when the file is written. The ES_ID present in the descriptor in the file should be 0. When the file is read into a MPEG-4 systems environment, ES_ID is restored by deriving it from the stream's track-id.

I believe the reason behind this is to allow someone to take tracks from one .mp4 and aggregate them with tracks in another .mp4 file without worrying about duplicate identical ES_IDs. So track manipulation only needs to know about track-IDs not anything about the contents of the track.

How do you get four ES_IDs from two elementary streams?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bond
i understand what you mean!

try this:
1) encode with recode as you did
2) load the file in mp4ui
3) dont change anything
4) save the file
5) see if playback works Hi bond. I'm having a 'thick day'!

I've tried but I can't work out how save the file without changing anything. As the application by default saves the optimised file!

Derrrr!

[bond]

Originally posted by temporance
What version of the standard are you using, bond? Any chance of a copy?none :D
i am more learning by doing ;) i just used current tools (said to follow the latest mpeg-4 standard) to create mp4menu and i only said what was necessary to set there (every stream has an own es_id, never saw a 0 es_id, but this doesnt mean that it isnt possible)

How do you get four ES_IDs from two elementary streams?check out my mp4menu script and you will see that not only the elementary streams have an es_id

to my knowledge the es_ids are also used to define which stream should stay in sync (via ocr_es_id)

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I've tried but I can't work out how save the file without changing anything. As the application by default saves the optimised file!hm i see, damn mp4ui, you could try the commandline mp4creator, but you can also try adding two audio streams in recode2 and than delete 1 in mp4ui :D

[bond]

Originally posted by bond
- it seems nd is not using the mediatypes other mpeg-4 implementations use (coreaac already had to add the special nero mediatype to be able to play nero aac files), which seems to can result in incompatibility with other mpeg-4 dshow filters who dont explicitely know them!hm, it seems they use mpeg-2 mediatypes :eek:

that nero showtime steals most extensions was bad but this is even worse :devil:

[Tuning]

Originally posted by bobololo
I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's possible to connect the video source to the nero decoder filter. So using a DirectShowSource() you may exploit the mpeg2 decoder. Someone will have to try.

bobololo, Can you specify what filename of your decoder? Is it Nerodigital video decoder?. If it is available only in Nero folders, can i register with in system32 to decode all MPEG-2 content and use as stanalone MPEG-2 decoder instead of Mpeg2dec3.dll.

Thanks!

[SeeMoreDigital]

EMERGENCY OVER

Sigma, at long last, released some new drivers and application software for the Xcard this morning.

As a result my Recode2 (MP4) encodes work fine now.

And just before Xmas too!

Thanks to everybody for their help

SMD

EDIT: For all you guy's who have Xcards, their software upgrade link is here: - http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/download_xcard_win2000_xp.htm

I wonder if Doom9 will post this link on Doom9.org?

[bobololo]

Originally posted by Tuning
bobololo, Can you specify what filename of your decoder? Is it Nerodigital video decoder?. If it is available only in Nero folders, can i register with in system32 to decode all MPEG-2 content and use as stanalone MPEG-2 decoder instead of Mpeg2dec3.dll.

Thanks!

The mpeg-2 decoder should be in NeVideo.ax. But you may need the mpeg-2 splitter. Btw I succeeded to render a vob within graphedit using Nero filters, so it should not be very difficult to make a avisynth script using them.

[ookzDVD]

@forum,

Thank God, finally I can try the recode2 perfectly :)
Try to encode Pirates of The Carribean, the result is GOOD! :)

OT:
From the DVD-ROM point of view, how bad it will hurt the hardware
is the encoding is on the fly from the DVD instead of rip it into
harddisk ?

[Mtz]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
ok heres a short clip encoded I with recode at 720x576 anamorphic 16:9. V nice me thinks

Nice, nice, but the subtitles are black and the pos. must to be lower.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
... From the DVD-ROM point of view, how bad it will hurt the hardware... is the encoding is on the fly from the DVD instead of rip it into harddisk ? Personally I don't think your DVD ROM drive is going to suffer at all.

From the drives point of view it's just playing a movie at either slightly faster or slower speed than normal. Which is directly related to your PC's processing/encoding power.

So I reckon, the life of the drive will more likely be dependant on it's build quality!

EDIT: That said, there are more practical reasons for backing up and mounting an ISO copy of your treasured DVD to your hard drive first!

Cheers

[dragongodz]

ookzDVD - about dvd ware go here

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27373

and read what i say. then reread it again to make sure you didnt miss any caveats and conditions. :)

[bond]

the official nero digital site is updated and contains now some info about the a/v codecs:

http://www.nerodigital.com

[acidsex]

Initially I was impressed with recode and the nero Digital codec. However, I feel that it failed to deliver in several areas that are quite important. Nero claimed to support the DVR-MS format from mediaCenter PCs and when a file is opened there is NO sound. Did they not test this before they shipped?

Also, why is the ND codec only locked to DVD conversions? Did they not think that users like myself would love to archive footage of my home movies in .mp4 format? If nero is looking to gain acceptance for its codec, this one is deathly important. There should be a feature that lets you put in .avi, .mpg. .mpeg etc... and just convert the files to mpeg-4/aac. Until this is implemented, Im gonna feel ripped off for the $49 upgrade.

The email I got back from tech support wasnt very promising for either of these issues. Basically "the developers didnt think of that and see no reason to consider that." WTF?

[menno]

Originally posted by acidsex
Also, why is the ND codec only locked to DVD conversions? Did they not think that users like myself would love to archive footage of my home movies in .mp4 format? If nero is looking to gain acceptance for its codec, this one is deathly important. There should be a feature that lets you put in .avi, .mpg. .mpeg etc... and just convert the files to mpeg-4/aac. Until this is implemented, Im gonna feel ripped off for the $49 upgrade.

Recode2 is a DVD backup application. Other applications that include the NeroDigital codec will follow. See http://www.nerodigital.com

Menno

[acidsex]

Thats good if they will follow but doesnt it seem ridiculous to edit and author in Vision Express to dvd folder and then hsve to use recode2 to get it in mpeg-4 format? Just think they could have at least added an option to Vision Express to allow an output to mpeg-4/aac.

[menno]

Originally posted by acidsex
Thats good if they will follow but doesnt it seem ridiculous to edit and author in Vision Express to dvd folder and then hsve to use recode2 to get it in mpeg-4 format? Just think they could have at least added an option to Vision Express to allow an output to mpeg-4/aac.

NeroVision Express is one of the applications that will get a NeroDigital output option.

Menno

[acidsex]

excellent. is there any eta on when they plan for this to happen? Id hate to drop a bundle on sorenson squeeze and then have it come out :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well, I have to say now that I am able to play the Recode2 encodes in hardware with my Xcard I am impressed!

OK the quality is not quite as good as a 2pass DivX or XviD encode but I think this can be forgiven when you take into consideration it's incredible speed.

I did a test today using Tomb Raider 1. And it only took 116 mins to complete a 2pass encode from a 96min source.... Which is amazing!

Who knows how good the quality could get if they decided to slow down the encoding speed!

AAC HE audio at 96kbps sounds very good too!

Cheers

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Who knows how good the quality could get if they decided to slow down the encoding speed!


Unfortunately, the quality improvement wouldn't increase in the same manner as the encoding speed decrease. The mpeg-4 tools have reached their limit and now to get a little bit more of them you need to spend disproportionate power. This same power would lead to much more efficient results with better tools.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
Unfortunately, the quality improvement wouldn't increase in the same manner as the encoding speed decrease. The mpeg-4 tools have reached their limit and now to get a little bit more of them you need to spend disproportionate power. This same power would lead to much more efficient results with better tools. Really!

I would have thought that there must be a correlation somewhere.

I wonder why it is then, that both DivX and XviD take far longer to generate better looking 2pass encodes than Recode2!

Is it really purely down to the performance of the Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 encoding engine you've created at Ahead?

Cheers

[bond]

Originally posted by bobololo
The mpeg-4 tools have reached their limitwhy do my test show than that xvid produces better quali than ND? :p

and now to get a little bit more of them you need to spend disproportionate power.good stuff ;)

This same power would lead to much more efficient results with better tools.h.264 will rule :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't confess to understand the internal workings of an encoding engine. But I would have thought it has to be possible for Ahead to squeeze more quality out of a Recode2.

Never say never... I say!



While I'm thinking about it could somebody here generate and post an encode of the THX test, which can be found on most StarWars DVD's!

I'm interested to see/hear how well the 6Ch AAC Speaker Configurationtest will turn out!

I would do it myself but I only have a 'promo' copy of Recode2 and as such can only generate 2Ch encodes.

Cheers

EDIT: I've just tried it myself (but as I said before I only get 2Ch audio). If you have the PAL DVD version of StarWars 2, the section you will need is 'track 11'. You will have to set the output file size to 32MB. The video to, no crop and no resize please. And the audio to 96kbps HE. With any luck you should end up with a MP4 file no greater than 4MB

Thanks

[Doom9]

OK the quality is not quite as good as a 2pass DivX or XviD encode but I think this can be forgiven when you take into consideration it's incredible speed.The next codec comparison will give you something to think about in that area ;) It's not that ND isn't fastest, it's who comes in second.. but since I'm far from being done that's all I can say right now.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Doom9
The next codec comparison will give you something to think about in that area ;) It's not that ND isn't fastest, it's who comes in second.. but since I'm far from being done that's all I can say right now. I really don't know how you find the time!

The days must be longer on your side of the Atlantic.

Cheers

EDIT: You've just reminded me that one of the DivX beta's was very quick indeed when MV was enabled. The second pass was faster than the first! And I reckon the quality would still have been better than Recode2's.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by bond
why do my test show than that xvid produces better quali than ND? :p


Because it's slower ! God, Bond, you're a moderator ! Shouldn't you show the example and avoid posting such ridiculous troll ? ;)

[bond]

Originally posted by bobololo
Shouldn't you show the example and avoid posting such ridiculous troll ?nah, posting how i interpreted the results of my tests is not trolling :o

my posting above of course indirectly includes that this is only my subjective opinion and that my test encodes of course are not at all universally representative for all different movie types, bit rate ranges, codec settings (including different motion search algos), pre- and postprocessing aso... (maybe i should add this disclaimer to my signature to avoid getting bashed for posting my opinion ;) )

but i can of course send everyone my test encodes, if there is interest...

Originally posted by bobololo
Because it's slower !well my posting had the sense to show that ND, as mpeg-4 codec, hasnt reached the limit qualitywise in my opinion (as in my opinion xvid shows) :p

this of course also doesnt mean that ND produces crap quality, the contrary is the case in my opinion (but i also wouldnt have anything against it, if ND would be slower and would produce even better quality as it is the case atm in my opinion :D )

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I don't confess to understand the internal workings of an encoding engine. But I would have thought it has to be possible for Ahead to squeeze more quality out of a Recode2.


Basically, we're always working on improvements and the next coming versions will be better (quality or performance wise).

Actually what I meant was : don't expect to have a 50% quality gain in exchange of 50% speed decrease, the mpeg-4 tools can't allow this. With some exaggerations, you could at best get 1% of quality improvement for 50% of speed. Meanwhile, with this 50% of speed you could get 25% of quality improvement with better tools (ie in-loop filter, adaptative entropy encoding, etc present in other codecs like wm9, h.264, ...).

I hope I was clearer :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Much clearer thanks bobololo.

Is there any reason why you have not provided a link in your 'profile' to Nero's website. Or made a note in a 'sig' so we all know who you represent!

Cheers

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Much clearer thanks bobololo.

Is there any reason why you have not provided a link in your 'profile' to Nero's website. Or made a note in a 'sig' so we all know who you represent!

Cheers

Hum there is no special reasons. Basically I'm not from Ahead but from Ateme so it could be confusing. I could add a link to nerodigital.com, I'll do it sometimes.

[chilledoutuk]

xvids quality is better becuase it utilizes more advanced features like vhq and trelis quantiseation (obviously at the expense of speed) but we have the option if we want better quality.

Thats all we are asking for is advanced features like vhq to be available in nero digital to bring it on par with other mpeg-4 codecs in possble quality.

Alternatively you could always alow the use of external codecs such as divx or xvid in your very nicely put together encoding application.

Dont have a go at bond hes simply stating the fact that at the moment teh xvid codec has the ability to produce higher quality video than nero digital codec at the cost of speed.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
Hum there is no special reasons. Basically I'm not from Ahead but from Ateme so it could be confusing. I could add a link to nerodigital.com, I'll do it sometimes. So what exactly is your companies relationship with Nero/Ahead?

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
So what exactly is your companies relationship with Nero/Ahead?

Quoting from www.nerodigital.com :

"Nero Digital is the result of extensive co-development between Ahead Software and Ateme..."

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by bobololo
Quoting from www.nerodigital.com : Blimey!

In the spirit of the saying....

"If you don't ask. You don't get"

Does your company have any other tools that may be useful to us guys here on the forum?

Cheers

[chilledoutuk]

doom in your guide for nerodigital it says

"Last but not least there is the Resize tab, where you can also set a custom size, but keep in mind that Recode doesn't automatically adjust the resolution such that it still corresponds to the proper aspect ratio. So, if you change either resolution, make sure you adjust the other as well to preserve the proper relationship between horizontal and vertical resolution."

Because recode flags the aspect ratio the video on the mpeg4 steam is always anamorphic and thus when played back will always be displayed in the orginal aspect regardless of the horizontal and verticle resolution.
(I have tested this and made 720x576 and 608x472 encodes without leterboxing both which display perfect 16:9 aspect)

This an important adavantage of the .mp4 container format and should be included in the guide in my opinion.

[Doom9]

Because recode flags the aspect ratio the video on the mpeg4 steam is always anamorphic Ahem.. that is not correct. My 640x272 rips have an 1:1 DAR, not 16:9 and they are not stretched during playback.

[chilledoutuk]

Ok what i meant to say was that Because recode flags the aspect ratio of the video on the mpeg4 stream the video played back will always be displayed in the orginal aspect regardless of the horizontal and verticle resolution.

when i create an anamorphic encode like this

http://www.aoul98.dsl.pipex.com/toy.mp4

I have maintained the resolution of the orginal dvd thus when the bitrate is suffcient it will result in a better quality encode.

I simply think this is something that should be mentioned in your guide to make it even more useful.

[Doom9]

if that's really the case (I'm not using ND and especially not the MP4 container because it's not editable and my standalones don't play it) it's a very dangerous thing. For starters there are 2 aspect ratios in DVDs, one in the IFO and one in the MPEG-2 stream and they don't always agree (ID4 is a good example.. looking at the MPEG-2 stream you'd think it's 4:3 and resize it improperly), and then if you choose an odd resolution your playback will be stretched improperly.

[chilledoutuk]

Its very rare to find mpeg2 streams on dvds that have the incorect aspect flaged on them and even then you can simply use a program like avestensione to change the aspect flaged in the header.

http://www.offeryn.de/avestensione.htm

im going to try out the new xvid beta as this aparently now can flag aspect ratios.

[chilledoutuk]

oh it just came to me recode reads the ifo's from a dvd and thus uses the aspect from them.

Thus the aspect will always will be the same as the dvd.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
Ok what i meant to say was that Because recode flags the aspect ratio of the video on the mpeg4 stream the video played back will always be displayed in the orginal aspect regardless of the horizontal and verticle resolution.....

....I have maintained the resolution of the orginal dvd thus when the bitrate is suffcient it will result in a better quality encode.

I simply think this is something that should be mentioned in your guide to make it even more useful. Speaking as a fellow anamorphic DVD backup fan. I also like this feature in Recode2.

Toy Story 2 is a good source to encode because it's aspect ratio is 1.77:1 And as such every single one of its 720x576 pixels are image pixels!

I downloaded your short clip and when played in hardware (Xcard) and viewed on my 42" plasma the image looked excellet. As you say there's no fiddling about to do with aspect ratio etc, the image just 'flicks' out to the correct size, just like the orignal DVD!

There is one big draw back however, when generating 720x480/576 anamorphic encodes. And that is you need to encode using higher bitrates, which is fine if you've got the storage space but not so good if you want to back up a two hour movie to CD-R.

But keep experimenting chilledoutuk, that's what it's all about. And having fun ofcourse!

[bobololo]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
xvids quality is better becuase it utilizes more advanced features like vhq and trelis quantiseation (obviously at the expense of speed) but we have the option if we want better quality.

Thats all we are asking for is advanced features like vhq to be available in nero digital to bring it on par with other mpeg-4 codecs in possble quality.

I see your point of view and I guess you'll understand that we had to make some choices (related to marketing targets, technical issues). And those choices conducted us to the codec available today and its future evolution. Obviously it has advantages and drawbacks and it's up to you to choose to use it or not. You always have the option.


Alternatively you could always alow the use of external codecs such as divx or xvid in your very nicely put together encoding application.

Have you ever realized that ND is a direct competitor of xvid/divx ? :) By doing so, this would just mean that we would allow our competitors to use our own weapons against ourselves. This definitely doesn't make any sense :)

[bobololo]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Blimey!

In the spirit of the saying....

"If you don't ask. You don't get"

Does your company have any other tools that may be useful to us guys here on the forum?

Cheers

Did you check nerodigital website ? Basically multimedia products dedicated to the end user market will be available under the nerodigital label. Ateme is rather a technology provider. If you're interested, check out www.ateme.com !

[ookzDVD]

@forum,

Is there any tricks to do 2-pass with target below 32Mb ?
The Nero always refuse to enter a value below 32Mb :(

[temporance]

Originally posted by bobololo
Alternatively you could always alow the use of external codecs such as divx or xvid in your very nicely put together encoding application.
Have you ever realized that ND is a direct competitor of xvid/divx ? :) By doing so, this would just mean that we would allow our competitors to use our own weapons against ourselves. This definitely doesn't make any sense :)
Well, not really. DivX, xvid and ND are all MPEG-4 compatible codecs. Even if I could use the DivX 5.1.1 or xvid 1.0 codec within Recode 2, the file I create would still be a "Nero digital" file as it is in Ahead's proprietary flavor of mp4.

To me it sounds like you are admitting that the ND encoder is below par when compared to DivX/xvid. Having said that, the Recode app is very pretty and easy on the newbie. It's a great shame that we can't combine your app with a better codec. Maybe you should team up with DivX!

[bobololo]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@forum,

Is there any tricks to do 2-pass with target below 32Mb ?
The Nero always refuse to enter a value below 32Mb :(

You can also change the target size indirectly with the bitrate slider. In such case you should be able to produce a file smaller than 32 MB.

[chilledoutuk]

im having problems with the video at the end of film backups with recode beginisging to get artifacting as though the bitrate has been reduced.
Charateristicaly it hapens about 4mins before the end of the encode.

Is this some sort of bitrate reduction for the credits on films or is it a bug.

been playing around with ffvfw which can flag the aspect ratio and been getting quite impressive results.

Does anyone know of a program that can add an aspect ration flag to a mpeg4 stream created with divx?

[bond]

Originally posted by chilledoutuk
Does anyone know of a program that can add an aspect ration flag to a mpeg4 stream created with divx?nope no such tool available till now, but it is possible and i already bugged alexnoe to add this in avimuxgui but he doesnt seem to be interested :(
shitowax from 3ivx once wrote that they will perhaps implement something like that in their mp4 muxer

Originally posted by temporance
Having said that, the Recode app is very pretty and easy on the newbie. It's a great shame that we can't combine your app with a better codec. Maybe you should team up with DivX!well you have to understand that ahead wants to sell their own stuff, they dont have an interest in supporting divx5, as you said they are competitors
ahead wants to get people away from their competitors, thats how business goes...

the file I create would still be a "Nero digital" file as it is in Ahead's proprietary flavor of mp4.aheads mp4 files are totally spec compliant (you can play/use them with every mp4 implementation, excluding chapters and subs as i wrote already)

To me it sounds like you are admitting that the ND encoder is below par when compared to DivX/xvid.well its not really bad, in fact if you use qpel you can get a lot of details, imho nero digital is perhaps the codec with the best speed/quality relationship

only because xvid is f*cking damn great, it doesnt mean that other codecs are crap :D

[bobololo]

Originally posted by temporance
Well, not really. DivX, xvid and ND are all MPEG-4 compatible codecs. Even if I could use the DivX 5.1.1 or xvid 1.0 codec within Recode 2, the file I create would still be a "Nero digital" file as it is in Ahead's proprietary flavor of mp4.

To me it sounds like you are admitting that the ND encoder is below par when compared to DivX/xvid. Having said that, the Recode app is very pretty and easy on the newbie. It's a great shame that we can't combine your app with a better codec.

I didn't think so far :) Basically the very simple idea was to say that we have spend much time, invest much resources to bring the best complete solution including video and also audio, subtitles, standalone support, superior mpeg-2 decoder, nice GUI, etc. Do you realize the amount of work all these represent. Don't forget that any module (and the list is long) in Nero was completely developed in house and just consider the time divx/xvid took to develop the video codec only (several years). Then what is the point to give all this work away to our direct competitor ? What is the great shame ? :)

Maybe you should team up with DivX!

It's gonna be hard :) It's just like you asking Pepsi to team up with Coke ;)

[temporance]

Originally posted by bobololo
It's gonna be hard :) It's just like you asking Pepsi to team up with Coke ;) LOL. But by your analogy, I can only buy Pepsi in cans and can only drink it from the can. Coke is available everywhere in cans, bottles and on tap. (I can't think of a soda analogous to xvid as none are free/greyware!).

Anyway, bobololo, good luck with your venture and Happy New Year.

[ammer]

xvid is like dnL to 7up in respect that it's backwards and is green.

[Tuning]

Originally posted by bobololo
Have you ever realized that ND is a direct competitor of xvid/divx ? :)bobololo, If ND need to be more welcomed as superb competitor to other codecs, we need either a vfw version or some tools that allow direct transcoding from avi, mpg, avs and other popular video files than allowing direct DVD -> ND transcode. Many of us uses other codecs for other than DVD transcoding with help of Vdub. So I think popularity of these codecs are mainly bcoz of thier vfw implementation.
:)

[gino25]

But is it possible to use nero recode 2 to encode with an external vfw codec like divx/xvid?

[bobololo]

Originally posted by Tuning
bobololo, If ND need to be more welcomed as superb competitor to other codecs, we need either a vfw version or some tools that allow direct transcoding from avi, mpg, avs and other popular video files than allowing direct DVD -> ND transcode. Many of us uses other codecs for other than DVD transcoding with help of Vdub. So I think popularity of these codecs are mainly bcoz of thier vfw implementation.
:)

Well, as Menno already mentionned, Recode 2 is the very first application from Nero Suite that includes ND codec. The purpose of Recode is DVD backup that's why it doesn't allow to process anything but complete DVD input.

Later, ND codec will be obviously included in most Nero's application and more specificaly Vision Express 2, the audio/video editing tool. With this tool, you'll be able to select different source (avi, mpeg, mov, etc) edit them and export the result in ND.

So all I can say now is to be patient, things are to come, after all the first release was only 2 weeks ago ! :)

[gino25]

Originally posted by gino25
But is it possible to use nero recode 2 to encode with an external vfw codec like divx/xvid?

So it' s impossible at the moment?:(

[Doom9]

Fire up graphedit, look for the NeroDigital encoder, connect it as follows: asynch source (avisynth script) -> ND encoder -> avimuxer -> filewriter, configure the ND encoder, press play to encode. It's cumbersome compared with vfw codecs though.

[gino25]

But since mpeg2 decoder of recode2 is faster than mpeg2dec3, i want (if possible) to use mpeg decoder of recode, to decompress my dvd vob, and use vp6, or xvid 1.0 to recomrpess

I don' t wantto use nero digital mpeg.4

[Doom9]

why says its faster? Just because Recode is faster doesn't mean the decoder is faster. In fact, you'll see my numbers soon and I didn't notice any significant speed difference in encoding ND via Avisynth /mpeg2dec and via Recode. Plus, recode uses a bilinear filter which is faster but blurrier.. using Avisynth you get a sharper picture.

And you should really fire up Graphedit.. have a look at all the filters in there.. I think you'll find the filter Recode uses.

[bobololo]

Originally posted by Doom9
why says its faster? Just because Recode is faster doesn't mean the decoder is faster. In fact, you'll see my numbers soon and I didn't notice any significant speed difference in encoding ND via Avisynth /mpeg2dec and via Recode.

This seemed weird since it was not what I keep in mind in my previous tests. So I did some tests to check and here are my results :

1. encode with picture cropped to 720x432, no resize
- avisynth required 3m30s (65.7 fps)
- recode required 3m05s (75.6 fps) (15.1% faster)

2. encode with picture cropped to 720x432 and resized to 720x304
- avisynth required 3m00s (76.7 fps)
- recode required 2m27s (93.9 fps) (22.4% faster)

The sequence encoded was "Final Flight of The Osiris" from Animatrix (PAL) DVD. This clip has 13800 frames.

The avisynth encode refers to the usual avisynth/mpeg2dec3/vdub encode. In the second encoding test, avisynth bilinear resize was used to match with recode's resize algorithm.

Both avisynth and recode encode used the same ND codec for the encoding with obviously the same parameters. The time measured was the 1st pass encoding time since the 2nd pass in recode includes audio decoding and encoding.

Eventually, I find the results I had in mind (ie nero mpeg-2 decoder / resize was quite faster than avisynth/mpeg2dec3). Given the 15%-22% improvement is for the overall process where the mpeg-4 encoding costs a significant part, the differences showed here are far to be negligible.

Do these figures match with yours ? Maybe you have a newer version of mpeg2dec3 than the one I use (it's 1.10 from Nic) ?

[McoreD]

Originally posted by bobololo
Maybe you have a newer version of mpeg2dec3 than the one I use (it's 1.10 from Nic) ?

Wow thanks for the update, you mean this one (http://nic.dnsalias.com/mpeg2dec3.html) right?
I will try encoding with the updated dll. Thanks again.

Edit: Hmm..it is the latest versino Doom9.net have.