really bad picture with dvd2svcd(cce)

[liamo]

lo all - first post so hopefully i wont get told off for posting a bad question or not refering to q&a or faq's or not using the search i have done all the formentioned and still got a bad pic.
what i want to do is backup my dvd collection to a 200gb hd. i have started on m first dvd and firstly used drdivx which was quick and easey but i want the high quality so decided on dvd2svcd. (i only want one file though so i changed all the cd sizes to 4480 in bitrate and told it to use one cd for whatever the final size is. also set output to svcd and not dvd as i didn't want needlessly large (4gb) files. the dvd i have started with is shallow grave and is 90 mins long (i want 192kbs audio stereo which i set up in the audio tab) now i read in a thread that a q factor of 10 would give you great image quality (as i am using 2.5 cce one pass vbr) in fact it came out quite blotchy and grainy (and 1.6gb in size which to be honest is about what i have allowed 1gb per hour of video on that drive should give me 200hrs of video on 200gb drive [give or take x] and i anticipated that allowing that much for file size would have yielded good results?) anyhows what i might have done wrong is
i)set deinterlace to "telecide pal" though i didn't think this would have a negative effect as its a pal movie
ii)not made a template for cce (but using 2.5 so i thought default is fine)

well if anyone could give me any pointers i'd be really grateful
to simplify:
-i'd like one file playable by a dvd software player to store on the hd
-i can allow about 1gb hour (video+audio)
-would like a good picture @ 720*576

sorry if its a bit ambiguous i know different folks would give different views on what they would do but any suggestion at all would be gratefully accepted as i am still quite new to this and learning the ropes
thanks
liamo

[Nick]

OK...we've a lot to go at here. I don;t even know for sure where to start...

First point I would make is that at relatively low bitrates XviD compression will give better results than MPEG2 if the files are solely for watching from a PC. But that's an aside.

The main problem is your settings are all over the place!
Some pointers:

Setting the output to SVCD/DVD does not determine the output file size. It determines the output resolution - 480x576 (PAL SVCD) or 720x576 (PAL DVD). Also if you select the output as SVCD you will receive a warning if your settings allow the total bitrate (video+audio) to exceed 2756 as this would make an SVCD which is not standard compliant and may not play in an SVCD player.

Setting the target disc size in the bitrate tab determines file size, so setting it to 4480 allows for an output filesize of 4480MB (4.5GB or thereabouts) - more than you're wanting.

But then you're using One Pass VBR which bases its filesize on the Q factor not the target disc size!!

So basically we're all over the place!

The other problem I have here is that you want to retain DVD resolution, yet only use 1GB per hour for filesize. If you only want to use 1GB per hour I would use either SVCD or CVD resolution. I cannot see that allowing 1GB per hour at DVD resolution will possibly give you the quality you want. (To use CVD resolution of 352x576, set your level in the Misc. tab to Advanced and then alter the Resize To box in the Frameserver tab - the advantage of this is it is a supported resoltion for DVD so you could author CVD files to DVDR at a later date. SVCD resoluton is not supported so for DVDR the files would need re-encoding).

So, select SVCD as your output in the Misc tab and 192 for your audio in the audio tab. Resize to CVD as described above if you wish. Then set the boxes in the Bitrate tab relevant to your movie length to use 1 disc and set the disc size to the number of MB you want your end file to be (eg 2000 = 2GB for a 2 hour film, 1500 = 1.5GB for a one and a half hour film). Note you can highlight the text and overtype to give a custom size like this - you are not stuck with the dropdown presets for disc size. Select 3-pass Multipass VBR not One Pass in the encoder tab so you are using the filesizes you have selected not the Q factor, and try that.

There is also something called the D2SRoBa Plugin which could potentially speed things up for you and ensure similar quality for all your encodes as some movies are more compressible than others. However, to get started I suggest you try the settings above. Once you fully understand the effects of the various settings in D2S perhaps give the RoBa plugin a look but I wouldn't try to run before you can walk if I were you.

[liamo]

thanks a million, will give it a go, didn't realise i had got so all over the shop! and here was me thinking i was making a small bit of sense! oh well thats the learning curve for you. - i actually thought 1gb hour would give good results cos i'd heard of people getting whole movies on 2 cd's maybe will have to change allowance.
liamo

[Nick]

Whole movies on 2CD's works well at lower resolution. I'm just about happy with up to 60 mins on an 800mb disc at SVCD resolution. But at the higher DVD resolution there's much more info to encode and I don't think 1 GB per hour is realistic.

Still, good luck. Hope it goes well. The other thing I just spotted is your deinterlacing setting. If you are in Europe it's highly unlikely your PAL source will be interlaced to start with! There is some freeware called Bitrate Viewer which will let you check whether your source is progressive or interlaced. If your source is not interlaced just select No Deinterlacing. It will be quicker and better quality.

[liamo]

mm, setting it up like yuo said now but there is something i'm not sure about and thats the cce template-
i'm using 2.5- will i have to go and build a template based on my restrictions or requirements or shall i download one and just use that? sorry if this isan eassy question but i just don't know
much appreciated
liamo

[Nick]

Nah. If you're using CCE 2.5 with the settings above you'll be fine. No need for patches and templates and things. Keep it simple.

[liamo]

ta- will let ye know how it goes
liamo

[r6d2]

You canot have both the quality you want and the size you want at the same time. You have to choose.

If you want quality to determine output size, use OPV.
If you want size to determine quality, use Multipass VBR.

There is no reason at all for an encode to be actually better by VBR than OPV if the output file size is the same.

Since you are new, I suggest a look at the Idiot's Guide. It may clear things up for you.

Q=10 is very good quality indeed on SVCD frame size. I see no reason for you to get a bad encode unless the old garbage-in garbage-out is present or some weird settings or filtering, which you did not include in your post.

[liamo]

thanks - i'm trawlinn through all the guides lately- i only got into this last week, i have a funny feeling its going to become a bit of a pastime:)
thanks for your help
liamo

[liamo]

great tips nick- just backed up american beauty 116mins- 5.1mpeg audio @192kbs. and set a bitrate of 1200 per hour- and used 720*576 output(against your good advice!) got a total file of 2.2gb and have to say pic quality is most acceptable- unless i was backing up to an actual dvd medium i wouldn't increase the allowed filesize as am more than happy with the results
thanks again
liamo