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monty0815
25th November 2003, 11:42
I just found another player, which will be on sale here in Austria
next Monday:
This would be the specification (in german):


-spielt DVD Video/S-VCD/CD/CD-R/CD-RW/MP3/MPEG 4 (DivX und XviD) JPEG, Kodak Picture CD
eingebauter Chip erfüllt Level DivX Pro
Bildformat-Umschaltung (4:3, 16:9)
Kapitelsprung
Pause-/Einzelbildfortschaltung
OSD-Bildschirm Bedienerführung
Untertitel Anzeige
Kindersicherung
Anschlüsse: Dolby-Digital-/DTS Ausgang, Scartbuchse, Video/Audio Out
Abmessungen
43,0 x 5,3 x 24,5 cm (B x H x T)
Zubehör:
Fernbedienung inkl. Batterien, RCA (Video/Audio), Cinchkabel, Scartkabel

http://www.hofer.at/images/artikel/6141dvd_player.jpg

The 2nd line states that the chip meets the divx pro requirements.
Best thing about it is the Price: 89€ (75$ I would guess)
If anybody knows something about it please let me know.

cheers, monty

Wolfman
26th November 2003, 04:22
divx pro is still done on 4 levels. The minimum only requires really shitty res of 170x122 and is meant for mobile phones! so stating Divx pro is no great shakes in itself, unless it also states to what level it will attain eg home theater or High Def ??

Doom9
26th November 2003, 08:07
home theater is without gmc and qpel...
Best thing you can do is take a disc with divx samples, go to the store and test it. Or find the address of the manufacturer and ask them directly.

monty0815
26th November 2003, 12:43
I'll simply get myself one of those on Monday and then give it a thorough test. Easiest way to find out, because I tried finding the original manufacturer, but no luck so far.

monty

SeeMoreDigital
28th November 2003, 01:14
Me got a feeling, it will be the same as the Aldi player mentioned here: -

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65578

Cheers

bond
28th November 2003, 10:29
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Me got a feeling, it will be the same as the Aldi player mentioned here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65578hm, at least this player doesnt talk about "divx pro features"

monty0815,
would be great if you can test it and report if it supports gmc and qpel :)

SeeMoreDigital
28th November 2003, 12:30
monty0815 has just posted this (see below) on another thread. Perhaps it uses a MediaTek chipset: -

"MTK solution: MT1389 (True DivX Pro)

Compatible with DVD, MPEG-4 (DivX), VCD, SVCD, HDCD, CD, MP3, WMA, CD-R, CD-RW

Extra slim Design(3.9cm) --Super Slim Loader Mechanism featuring

Specifications:
MPEG-4 Video Support
Quality over Bit-Rate 5~2Mbps can achieve DVD quality
DivX Support
DivX 3.11, DivX 4 and 5 ASP
DRM (Digital Rights Management)
ISO 14496 ASP
Xvid
Video
NTSC/PAL Video Output, Capable of playing PAL/NTSC discs
Composite Video
S-Video
Component Video (Y, Pb, Pr)
Progressive-Scan Output (Y, Pb, Pr)
Automatic Screensaver
Super Error Correction with Twin Laser and Intelligent laser Wavelength Control
Menu Driven Setup Screen
Parental Control Function
Audio
Dolby Digital Down-mixed 2-Ch Stereo (L,R)
DTS and Dolby Digital (AC-3) 5.1 Channel Decode
Dolby Digital / DTS / LCPM Bitstream Output
192 kHz Sampling Frequency, 24-Bit High Quality Audio DAC
Analog (Mixed 2 Ch) Stereo (Left, Right) Audio
S/PDIF (IEC-958) Coaxial Digital Audio
S/PDIF (IEC-958) Optical Digital Audio
Power
~110V-~250V, 50Hz / 60Hz AC Universal Power Supply
Automatic Short Circuit Protection 27 MHZ 10 Bit Video D/A Converter
Packing details
Net Weight: Approximately 5.3 lbs (2.4 kg)
Net Dimensions: Approximately: W 420 mm x D 247 mm x H 41 mm
Loading: About 3000pcs/40'FCL
Licenses:
DVD licensing fees include Dolby Digital, Dts Digital out, 3C, 6C.


This post has been sumitted by
“ÀMÈË : Della Deng
¹«Ë¾ : Addnew Technologies Limited"

Nice work!

Cheers

monty0815
1st December 2003, 09:10
Just tested some features of the new player and it really seems to be working.
It does GMC and Qpel with no probs, eventhough I'll have to do some further testing.
Just wanted to let you know that this is the real thing!

cheers

bond
1st December 2003, 09:59
holy shit and that for 89€

there must be some downsides :D
plz tell us your testing results :)

monty0815
1st December 2003, 10:06
Ok it doesn't play OGM (doesn't even show up) when browsing the CD or DVD.
I couldn't get subs to work either, but I guess that's the typical thing with standalone players, since they don't have any standards.

Plays 3.11 with AC3 perfectly well and even the newest Xvid builds.
Takes a little long to start a movie, but waiting 5 seconds is ok with me.
It's my first divx player and I have to say i'm impressed.

cheers

Doom9
1st December 2003, 10:19
Did you test multiple b-frames with qpel and gmc (obviously I'm talking about xvid) with dev-api3 and dev-api4 (packed bitstream and not packed bitstream).

monty0815
1st December 2003, 10:49
I'll try testing all these things but it will take a while, since I never did this with a Hardware Player and hence I don't have all the test files.
I'm doing some encoding atm, but if anybody knows of a source for test clips (or could possibly send some), I'd be happy to test them for you (how about that standardized testing procedure from the other thread? That would be handy)
I sure hope I get all the settings right, because I normally just stick with the defaults for my own encodes.
and while I'm at it:
According to some other chap who opened his, the chip used ist the Mediatek 1389. I posted the stats for the chip just a few days ago and you can also find them in this thread.

cheers

Doom9
1st December 2003, 11:24
well.. to test my player I've used my standard codec testing scene from The Matrix. The 2nd chapter can use as much bitrate as you give it, so you can be reasonably sure that if you want a real high bitrate clip, you're going to get one (even a 1mbit, the codecs use really high bitrates during the entire shootout and the explosion).

I hope you can squeeze in a few test chapters shortly.. I really want to know if I have to look for people in Austria who could get me such a player (my dad claims my elta player is broken... apparently I'm the only one in the family who can get that player to work).

bond
1st December 2003, 11:25
this player uses the MediaTek MT1389 chipset!

now as the elta 8883 claims to be able to play data partitioning and resync markers too, perhaps we should test that with the gran prix too, to find out if the two players use the same chip :D

Doom9
1st December 2003, 11:29
@bond: so far no codecs are out that support those features if I'm not mistaken.

bond
1st December 2003, 11:32
Originally posted by Doom9
@bond: so far no codecs are out that support those features if I'm not mistaken.nope, have a look here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65646)

to make it short:
ffmpeg, divx 5.0.2 (the elta only supports divx503+!) support it
xvid will handle it in the future

Doom9
1st December 2003, 11:33
and where do you turn it on/off in divx5?

bond
1st December 2003, 11:38
Originally posted by Doom9
and where do you turn it on/off in divx5?the last tab, dunno its name
note that it was only available till divx502! dxn removed it for a reason (dunno, perhaps because it was a borked implementation, lack of hardware support, who knows...)

so for testing i would only use ffmpeg (will look if ffvfw supports it)!

monty0815
1st December 2003, 11:39
I did some testing: with the above suggestions and it all worked out perfectly.
Enabled GMC, qpel and 2 b-frames with xvid dev api 3.
Both packed bitstream on and off.
No problems so far.
I'll try the matrix scene next.

cu, monty

bond
1st December 2003, 11:50
Originally posted by monty0815
I did some testing: with the above suggestions and it all worked out perfectly.
Enabled GMC, qpel and 2 b-frames with xvid dev api 3.
Both packed bitstream on and off.
No problems so far.woaw, i still cant believe that this is there for 89€

thanks a lot monty :)

btw if it is ok for you i will prepare a small data partioning sample, would be great if you can try that too (if it works i am pretty sure the elta uses the same chip :D )

monty0815
1st December 2003, 11:52
Yep sure thing.
Just send it on and I'll try it.

cheers

bond
1st December 2003, 12:37
monty,
plz grap some sample files with error resilience (data partioning) from here (~5mb)
plz tell me when you finished downloading :)

note that the files have the fourcc "fvfw" as i created them with ffvfw
if the player doesnt recognize them, you can also try to change the fourcc (koepis xvid binaries include a tool called fourcc changer) to something the player might know: ("divx" or "dx50" for divx5, "xvid" for xvid, "mp4v" the standard fourcc for all mpeg-4 files)

thanks a lot :)

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 12:45
OK I'm hooked!

Monty, I've got family living in Germany near the Belgium/Holland boarder!

Where can I get one (or more) of these players please?

Cheers

Doom9
1st December 2003, 12:46
the player sounds more and more yummie. If you have time, could you also do a dev-api 4 test with 3 b-frames (that's usually the maximum you're going to use). I'd really appreciate it (I'm almost drooling and contemplating to buy a ticket to Austria right now.. ).

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 12:59
Originally posted by Doom9
.... I'd really appreciate it (I'm almost drooling and contemplating to buy a ticket to Austria right now.. ). Sod that! I'll post one out to you Doom9, if your that desperate!

Cheers

Doom9
1st December 2003, 13:13
it looks like the players are only available in Austria after all. But the store is part of Aldi, so they might have the same player in other countries as well (perhaps under other brand names.. there are a lot of sigma based players that are exactly the same except for the front-plate).

Wilbert
1st December 2003, 13:37
Time to pay Aldi a visit, and ask them whether they can order such a player :)

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 13:45
Originally posted by Doom9
it looks like the players are only available in Austria after all. But the store is part of Aldi, so they might have the same player in other countries as well (perhaps under other brand names.. there are a lot of sigma based players that are exactly the same except for the front-plate). I guess all we really need is for Monty to confirm the players specs. And what it actually looks like!

Monty. Any chance you can take a screwdriver to your player and confirm the chipset too?

Cheers

bond
1st December 2003, 13:48
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Any chance you can take a screwdriver to your player and confirm the chipset too?you are late, monty already wrote that it uses the MediaTek MT1389 ;)

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 14:02
Originally posted by bond
you are late, monty already wrote that it uses the MediaTek MT1389 ;) I'm just blinded by my excitement!!

He, he... Cheers

Now if we can somehow con MediaTek into manufacturing/sticking their chip on an PCI card, I could dump my Sigma Xcard... Sorted!

monty0815
1st December 2003, 14:34
@bond
Just finished downloading the clips.
I'll test them now.

bond
1st December 2003, 15:31
Originally posted by monty0815
Just finished downloading the clips.
I'll test them now.great :)

huh, it was posted already 1 hour ago...

monty0815
1st December 2003, 15:53
Ok, well that wasn't very successfull:

-It didn't play any of the clips with the clips with fvfw FourCC.
(didn't even start)

-I tried FourCC (changed with nic'smini avic fourcc changer) with DIVX4, XVID, DX50 and mp4v
the first clip (1st-pass_data-part.avi) runs smoothly for the first 5 seconds, then hangs
the other 2 just play for about 1 second

btw. what is the "FourCC used codec" option in the fourCC changer?

cheers

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 16:11
Originally posted by monty0815
Ok, well that wasn't very successfull:

-It didn't play any of the clips with the clips with fvfw FourCC.
(didn't even start) Yep. I could get two of the clips to be recognised by my Xcard, however the images were totally unwatchable. The 2b clip even managed to lock my PC. First time that's happened in a while!

The clip with Qpel was a complete no go of course!

Cheers

bond
1st December 2003, 16:15
Originally posted by monty0815
-It didn't play any of the clips with the clips with fvfw FourCC.
(didn't even start)ok, i thought that it wouldnt know the ffvfw codec

btw. what is the "FourCC used codec" option in the fourCC changer?good question, i dont know :D
the best thing is maybe to change both to the same setting

-I tried FourCC (changed with nic'smini avic fourcc changer) with DIVX4, XVID, DX50 and mp4v
the first clip (1st-pass_data-part.avi) runs smoothly for the first 5 seconds, then hangs
the other 2 just play for about 1 secondhm, interesting results
1) which fourcc did work? all you listed? (btw divx4 doesnt exist, it can only be "divx" - 4 letters)
2) well, as normally a player, who doesnt understand error resilience, cant even play such a file (try for example to decode the files with the 3ivx decoder on your pc to see how it would look like), the chance is great that the gran prix can decode it (and uses the same chip as the elta 8883)!

i guess that the problems are maybe caused by my sample files (it seems that with the one sample the player can play till the first keyframe (at ~5sec), the other files have a keyframe shortly after the beginning, which maybe caused stopping at ~1sec
another possibility would be that the mediatek chip claims to support the decoding of error resilience but their implementation is still buggy...

monty0815
1st December 2003, 16:25
the best thing is maybe to change both to the same setting
..thats what I did, just to be on the safe side....

1) which fourcc did work? all you listed? (btw divx4 doesnt exist, it can only be "divx" - 4 letters)

I meant DIV4, but I actually used DIVX, which did work, but only as described
same with xvid and dx50
couldn't get the mp4v to work though, it just skipped those files, similar to how the player treats ffvfw

Doom9
1st December 2003, 16:26
btw, I tested ND and 3ivX on my elta 8882, and the latter would not work no matter what I tried (and it's only MPEG-4 simple profile so you'd expect the player to not have any problems). But I'd definitely change both entries.. I think I even went further to hex edit my 3ivX AVIs but to no avail. I also had no luck with the mpegable codec.

I think all players on the market right now can only handle DivX3/4/5 and XviD fourcc and refuse the play the rest.

Please let us know how the xvid 1.0 tests work out.

monty0815
1st December 2003, 16:31
do you mean the beta that was just released?
I tried it, but changed back to to dev api 3.
I couldn't really find my way through all those profiles, but I'll try it again later on.

bond
1st December 2003, 16:36
Originally posted by monty0815
couldn't get the mp4v to work though, it just skipped those files, similar to how the player treats ffvfwcrap, i dont understand why they cant add mp4v, its the official mpeg-4 fourcc :rolleyes:

but anyways, thanks a lot for your tests :)

edit: hm, did you already try to play a xcd? a xcd is similar to vcd but for mpeg-4 (you can store around 800mb on a xcd)
read more about it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63047)

Originally posted by Doom9
[B]btw, I tested ND and 3ivX on my elta 8882, and the latter would not work no matter what I tried (and it's only MPEG-4 simple profile so you'd expect the player to not have any problems). ...
I think all players on the market right now can only handle DivX3/4/5 and XviD fourcc and refuse the play the rest.wierd, i suppose you changed the fourcc of the nd and 3ivx clip...

it shouldnt make a difference for the player if a simple profile clip is done by divx5, xvid, 3ivx or any other mpeg-4 codec...

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 16:46
Originally posted by Doom9
btw, I tested ND and 3ivX on my elta 8882, and the latter would not work no matter what I tried (and it's only MPEG-4 simple profile so you'd expect the player to not have any problems). But I'd definitely change both entries.. I think I even went further to hex edit my 3ivX AVIs but to no avail. I also had no luck with the mpegable codec.

I think all players on the market right now can only handle DivX3/4/5 and XviD fourcc and refuse the play the rest. I had the same problem with 3viX encodes with my Xcard.

At first, a warning comes up saying the file is 'unsupported'. But then plays the file.

Very wierd eh!

Cheers

EDIT: Monty.
Can you download Sagittaire's 3viX encode and give it a spin please. GSpot shows the 4CC as being XVID/3iv2. Anyway it's available (together with other encodes) here: - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=397234#post397234

monty0815
1st December 2003, 17:04
I'm running some tests at the moment.
XCDs are readable (lists files) and if the files are .avi the player plays them.
Most of my XCDs are ogm files so they fall flat.
Many XCD-movie-files have a .dat extension, i still need to test if avi files work if they are named dat.
I'll see to that later.

Another thing that worked was a multiaudio divx movie. Switching Audio works like a charm.

The 3ivx link is broken.

bond
1st December 2003, 17:20
Originally posted by monty0815
XCDs are readable (lists files) and if the files are .avi the player plays them.holy shit, so to say xcd with avi works?
this player is incredible!!

Most of my XCDs are ogm files so they fall flat.
Many XCD-movie-files have a .dat extension, i still need to test if avi files work if they are named dat.so no ogg vorbis or aac support i suppose? :(
i think also vcds sometimes have the .dat extension!? dunno for sure tough

Another thing that worked was a multiaudio divx movie. Switching Audio works like a charm.:)

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 17:27
Originally posted by bond
holy shit, so to say xcd with avi works?
this player is incredible!!

...so no ogg vorbis or aac support i suppose? :( AAC audio in an MP4 container should work!

I've got a couple of encodes on my PC I generated using Sorenson Squeeze 3.5.

Cheers

EDIT:
I feel like a little kid in a candy store... But without the candy!

monty0815
1st December 2003, 17:28
.....so to say xcd with avi works?

yep

I tried playing ogg files, but the problem is that the file browser doesn't even show files, which it isn't familiar with.
I'm afraid there won't be many firmwareupdates by this manufacturer (it is a rather cheap thing after all), but hopefully firmware by other manufacturers will work with this model, as soon as they are available.

bond
1st December 2003, 17:34
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
AAC audio should in an MP4 container should work!i would be _very_ surprised if this player supports .mp4 already...

Originally posted by monty0815
I tried playing ogg files, but the problem is that the file browser doesn't even show files, which it isn't familiar with.
I'm afraid there won't be many firmwareupdates by this manufacturer (it is a rather cheap thing after all), but hopefully firmware by other manufacturers will work with this model, as soon as they are available. hm, it would be really great if manufacturers will start making their firmware opensource:
it would make it rather easy to add such features to it (of course it will tell competitors too much about the chip internals i think :D )

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 17:56
Originally posted by bond
i would be _very_ surprised if this player supports .mp4 already... Well I guess there's only one way to know for sure.

I've just put one on my WebSite - If it's working properly!

Check out 'Area 51' Test Encodes - Mpeg4/AAC.

Cheers

EDIT: Can somebody let me know if my site (http://SeeMoreDigital.net)works or not?

bond
1st December 2003, 19:41
nope doesnt work :(

Doom9
1st December 2003, 19:44
it shouldnt make a difference for the player if a simple profile clip is done by divx5, xvid, 3ivx or any other mpeg-4 codec...shouldn't and doesn't are two different things ;) I'm just reporting my findings. You know, a generic MPEG-4 logo doesn't sell as well as a DivX logo (and without the DivX logo I'd assume there is no XviD logo either). In the MPEG-4 area, manufacturers will continue to go for the greatest visibility, not ultimate specs compliance for at least another generation.

I guess you can't have your cake and eat it.

@monty0815: did you get my PM?

SeeMoreDigital
1st December 2003, 20:11
Originally posted by bond
nope doesnt work :( How about now?

monty0815
1st December 2003, 20:18
still nothing ;)

@doom9
I got your pm just now, didn't see it before

monty0815
1st December 2003, 20:43
I'm trying to encode a test clip with xvid 1.0 beta.
Has anybody tried this and could give me directions which settings should be suitable for a hardware player test?

Doom9
1st December 2003, 21:33
set profile to as@l5, then press the ... button right to the profile to configure, check qpel, gmc and bvop (b-frames) and configure them properly (it's the same as with dev-api3 except that the factors are now divided by 100, so a quantizer offset of 1.00 corresponds to 100 in dev-api3.
and set quantizition to mpeg, not mpeg custom.

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 02:14
A kind soul posted some Pictures of the Player on another board.

You can find them here (http://www.dvdboard.de/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62298)

cu, monty

CruNcher
2nd December 2003, 03:06
gee that sounds to good to be true :) full ISO ASP support, but actually their 7 ASP levels and they only stateing ASP, but wich level ? ALL ?
also the Mp4 Container and AAC Audio support are stil missing. So still more Beta Standalones are coming till the Real Deal. So better stay with your X-Box :D
Doom9 you got Nero Digital, so we can expect a new Codec Shootout soon ?

5~2Mbps can achieve DVD quality <- hmm so L0-L3b indeed not bad

http://cruncher.mufflastig.com/XviD/Profiles.png

Doom9
2nd December 2003, 08:30
well.. it must be asp level 5 because for the rest, the resolution is a killer criteria already. And even previous players had no problems with a max bitrate above 3mbit. DivX certification goes above that as well both in bitrate and resolution.
As for the read deal.. MP4 is imho not an option yet. The software is severely lacking (show me an mp4 editor that rivals virtualdub). I have yet to regret sticking to AVI..

bond
2nd December 2003, 11:18
monty,
already some more results about xcd? will it play .dat files (renamed .avis (!) not mpg as on s/vcd) on xcd?

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 12:04
Yep XCDs work fully, both with dat and avi extension (of course the avi must be fully supported, but if its called dat the player is still clever enough to decode it using avi filters, or whatever it is this thing uses ;-))
what I'm not happy with is the xvid performance, but it's probably just me and my lacking skills. I tried the matrix lobby shootout and the explosion (as doom9 mentioned) all with bframes, gmc and qpel but many clips play more like a slideshow. The problem is the bitrate and the resolution, what settings make sense for a standalone player?

bond
2nd December 2003, 12:19
Originally posted by monty0815
Yep XCDs work fully, both with dat and avi extension (of course the avi must be fully supported, but if its called dat the player is still clever enough to decode it using avi filters, or whatever it is this thing uses ;-))woaw, great :)

what I'm not happy with is the xvid performance, but it's probably just me and my lacking skills. I tried the matrix lobby shootout and the explosion (as doom9 mentioned) all with bframes, gmc and qpel but many clips play more like a slideshow.hm, so it seems the mediatek also has problems with high-motion, high bitrate scenes :(

The problem is the bitrate and the resolution, what settings make sense for a standalone player?hm, i (at least) would expect a media player to be able to play the mpeg-4 asp without troubles
but for the mediatek? who knows?
lets ask the other way round: what resolution, what bitrate did you use?

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 12:28
Well one clip was:
672x272 (2.47:1) [=42:17]
1955 kb/s
That was CBR Xvid with all "pro" features

---> slideshow
the standardized test cd would sure be handy at this point

bond
2nd December 2003, 12:40
hm, i guess this means that the mediatek chip is still not strong enough to decode both without problems at the same time:
qpel, gmc AND high-motion scenes :(

i guess if you play the same scene without gmc and qpel it will work!?

Doom9
2nd December 2003, 12:48
actually, the best test for high bitrate is using the quantizer mode and set the quantizer to two. I had no problems using dev-api3 on such clips (with multiple b-frames it required packed bitstream to play flawlessly), even using dual AC3 audio. Maybe there's a problem with the CBR mode in XviD 1.0, who knows (have you tried the same settings in dev-api 3 builds?), people around here generally don't use CBR unless you hold them at gunpoint ;)

SeeMoreDigital
2nd December 2003, 12:51
Originally posted by bond
hm, i guess this means that the mediatek chip is still not strong enough to decode both without problems at the same time:
qpel, gmc AND high-motion scenes :(

i guess if you play the same scene without gmc and qpel it will work!? I would hope so!

672x272 is a rather odd image pixel frame size anyway, but it's unlikely that this will have any bearing.

However, if it's struggling with this amount of pixels, I wonder how it will cope with full anamorphic image pixel frame sizes (720x480/576)?

Monty have you tried spinning RAW Mpeg1 and 2 files?

And.... is my web site working yet?

Cheers

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 12:54
I normally don't use CBR either, it's just that the encoding takes up a lot of time (I'm kinda low on cpu power ;)) and using qpel doesn't make it any faster.
I tried both dev 3 and 1.0b.
ATM I'm encoding same settings with divx511 (2 pass), see if that works.
Would be a shame if Xvid support is so much worse than divx.

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 13:00
still doesn't work (the site) :(

SeeMoreDigital
2nd December 2003, 13:06
Originally posted by monty0815
still doesn't work (the site) :( Bummer!

I'm trying to host it (or not as the case may be) on my home PC using Apache server!

Maybe it's to do with the port numbers. Worked fine a couple of weeks ago with very simple pages.

What a pisser!

Cheers

CruNcher
2nd December 2003, 13:19
@Doom9

ah come on they are not the real deal do you think DXN could get Sigma todo Mp4 chips based on AVI playback, because of the fact that AVI can be edited :P nahh we all know why Players existing today don't we :D and those DivX Players are not capable of full Mp4 features, those that are will have no DXN certification, but a Mp4 Industry Forum one and will be able to display MP4 with BIF features Menus and Play AAC Sound ect, but they won't be alot of these players unfortunately. A good step in full complaince is @ the moment still based on PC alike Systems if you don't wana X-Box you could also buy one of these
http://www.vwbinc.com/sampleproducts2.htm but many of us owning a X-box allready have that feeling :)

CruNcher
2nd December 2003, 13:22
@monty0815

if you could come into #xvid on freenode i could send you some test samples :)

monty0815
2nd December 2003, 13:26
The divx 511 clip worked perfectly,
sad actually....

SeeMoreDigital
2nd December 2003, 13:37
I would still really love to know if the Gran Prix DVD 404-DivX can spin Mpeg4/AAC encodes stored in an MP4 container!

Is there anybody out-there (other than me) who could provide Monty with a clip to test?

Really sorry I cant get my WebSite, or should that be 'Web Shyte' to work!

Cheers

Doom9
2nd December 2003, 14:02
@CruNcher: DivX capable DVD players are actually a product that is driven by demand, not by the desire of companies to sell us their solution. If it were an idea developed by companies, you'd see MPEG-4 specs compliant players. Why can those players handle DivX3 in the first place? There's no way an MPEG-4 specs player would ever play those.. that was a requirement by potential customers who just happen to have a lot of legacy AVI files. The container is also decided by the market, AVI still dominates by a huge margin, and that is why players handle AVI and no other format. If suddenly the entire world started dumping AVI in favor of the MP4 container it wouldn't take long for players to support this container (or new players to enter the market that would support it), but as long as the large majority uses AVI, AVI it is. And why does the majority use AVI? Because it's there, it works, the tools are here and there are no major problems. Does Dr. DivX make MP4 files? Does AutoGK make MP4 files? Do you think they would if everybody used the MP4 container?
After all.. those are DivX capable DVD players, NOT MPEG-4 capable DVD players. The industry has so far failed to get widespread customer acceptance for what they cooked up, both on the content and on the playback side. Heck, there isn't even a standard how to put MP4 files on a CD/DVD. Mode1 or 2? ISO or UDF? etc... And btw I do know (I've reported about it in the news) about a player that specifically targets MPEG-4 and no DivX, XviD or other codec in particular but that's not the player we're discussing here.

Doom9
3rd December 2003, 14:22
@monty: it seems that beta1 is broken when it comes to standalones and everybody is encouraged to wait for beta2. So I think you can save yourself any further efforts. But with dev-api3 working properly that are really encouraging results.

monty0815
3rd December 2003, 19:11
Hi!
I've been testing quite a bit with CruNcher, who sent me a lot of files over the past 2 days, most of them worked fine, but the Player seems to have problems with GMC in Xvid, but all the other features work fine, even at very high bitrates and high resolutions.
I guess CruNcher can give better judgement, since he was the one who encoded all those clips.

cu,monty

Doom9
3rd December 2003, 19:27
actually, I got some information regarding the chipset. It only seems to support GMC with 2 warp points. DivX uses 1, XviD uses 3 (soe does libavcodec/ffmpeg/ffvfw). I just got confirmation from elta that their player wouldn't do XviD GMC either, which is a real shame, as the Mediatek chipset otherwise seems to rule.

monty0815
3rd December 2003, 21:14
Just wanted to give a short overview of what the chipset is capable of, no guarantee given of course:

-Divx 3.11 - 5.11 in standard avi container, even at high bitrates (all pro features included)
-Xvid (all features except GMC)
-mp3 of course, but didn't test that too well, because I'm not really interested
-avi with 2 soundstreams
-XCD, but of course depends on the files contained within

What it can't do:
-OGM and ogg
-subs
-most other mpeg4 codecs and containers

These things might change with firmware upgrades, but I wouldn't trust on it.
Maybe CruNcher would be so nice as to add some other features, which it support, as he has more insight into what we actually tested ;-)

cheers

SeeMoreDigital
3rd December 2003, 22:31
Thanks for the update.

And thanks for taking the time and the effort to carry out all the tests.

Shame it can't handle anything to do with the MP4 container.

Even so, for the price, it represents great value for money!

Cheers

seewen
4th December 2003, 00:03
I think I would throw my kiss dp-450 at once, if only those Mediatek based players were able to use subs.


But I'm quite sure that their will be a firmware upgrade (it took 5-7 month to kiss-technology to make such a firmware).


Is this player able to FF/FR with DivX/XviD ?

monty0815
4th December 2003, 00:27
Yes you can up to 16x

SeeMoreDigital
4th December 2003, 01:06
Originally posted by monty0815
Yes you can up to 16x Well if it can fast rewind properly, then that's yet another thing it's got over the Sigma/Kiss players and Sigma Xcard!

My Xcard sucks with all Mpeg4 streams when fast rewinding, regardless of the container used.

Sigma has very poor driver support.

Cheers

The Edge
4th December 2003, 12:09
Keeping an close eye on this tread. Thanks for the feedback monty;)

Edge

monty0815
4th December 2003, 12:54
some more information on what the player doesn't like:

- divx audio (yep the old one that came with 3.11)
- also seems to have some problems with avimux files, eventhough it worked with an avimuxed clip that had vbr mp3 sound

Doom9
4th December 2003, 13:55
btw, talking about wma, the elta supports it as external files and work is being done to support wma inside an AVI. But who cares about DivX audio anyway.

SeeMoreDigital
4th December 2003, 14:44
Originally posted by Doom9
btw, talking about wma, the elta supports it as external files and work is being done to support wma inside an AVI. But who cares about DivX audio anyway. Jeez, wma in an AVI container... I suppose it makes sense when you consider you can already have wmv in an AVI container (but sadly without AR flagging)!

M$ are determined to take over the world, one way or another!

Cheers

monty0815
4th December 2003, 15:23
The Gran Prix also supports external wma.
But I don't really care about it anyway...

SeeMoreDigital
4th December 2003, 15:33
Originally posted by monty0815
The Gran Prix also supports external wma.
But I don't really care about it anyway... I find this interesting!

I don't suppose you've tested the player with 6Ch WMA encodes. I'm just wondering whether or not a separate channel is allocated to each one of the 6Ch analog outputs?

Cheers

monty0815
4th December 2003, 15:37
Can't really check that because I don't have a surround system, or is there another way?

SeeMoreDigital
4th December 2003, 16:15
Originally posted by monty0815
Can't really check that because I don't have a surround system, or is there another way? You could connect a set of PC speakers to each pair of the players analog outputs.

But unless you have some 3.5mm stereo to phono adaptors, it will be a bit of a 'ball ache'.

And you will also require an 6Ch wma encode ofcourse. Nothing too fancy, just something that says... left channel, right channel, centre channel, etc.

Cheers

CruNcher
5th December 2003, 08:51
Originally posted by monty0815
Hi!
I've been testing quite a bit with CruNcher, who sent me a lot of files over the past 2 days, most of them worked fine, but the Player seems to have problems with GMC in Xvid, but all the other features work fine, even at very high bitrates and high resolutions.
I guess CruNcher can give better judgement, since he was the one who encoded all those clips.

cu,monty

The MediaTek Chip seems the be the best available Mpeg-4 Decoding solution @ the moment here are the Results that where run so far.
thx monty takeing the time todo this :)


XviD Aloha Gran/Prix MediaTek 1389 Chip Results

ASP features:

B-frames <- WORKS Perfect
Qpel <- WORKS Perfect
GMC 3 Warp Point <- Problems (slow playback see below)

Matrices:
H263 <- WORKS Perfect
MPEG <- WORKS Perfect (little slower ?)
HVS <- WORKS Perfect (little slower ?)

Upsampling (Bleeding Colors) <- No Problems

Test Videos:

b-frames(2).avi (640x272) 550 kbps <- WORKS Perfect
extreme1.avi (640x346 Qpel B-frames 1/1.50/1 no Sound) 2.7 Mbit CBR <- WORKS Perfect
extreme1.avi (640x346 Qpel B-frames 1/1.50/1 Mp3 128 Abr) 2.7 Mbit CBR <- WORKS Perfect
level5.avi (640x346 Qpel B-frames 1/1.50/1 no Sound) ~1.5 Mbit VBR <- WORKS Perfect
fullresvbr.avi (720x304 Qpel B-frames 1/1.50/1 no Sound) ~1.5 Mbit VBR <- WORKS Perfect
rmdfullres.avi (704x576 Qpel B-frames 1/1.50/1 no Sound) 4.8 Mbit CBR <- WORKS Perfect

gmc-h263.avi (640x272) <- slideshow
gmc-qpel-hvs.avi (640x272) <- jerky all the way picture every 5seconds
gmc-qpel-h263.avi (640x272) <- better then the one before still slideshow

used Source:

640x272 = Pearl Harbour Test Sequence Low Motion-High Motion (DVD)
640x346 = Matrix Reloaded Trailer (Sorenson 3 Ultra Trailer Resized) (Matroska Techdemo)
720x304 = Pearl Harbour Test Sequence Low Motion-High Motion (DVD)
704x576 = Romeo Must Die Trailer (DVD)

DivX 3.11 Gran/Prix MediaTek 1389 Chip Results

smart bitrate controll intro (DivX 3.11 SBC 640x272 Mp3 160 kbps CBR) 1 Mbit <- WORKS Perfect
shaggy.avi (DivX 3.11 SBC 576x416 Mp3 192 kbps ABR) 1.3 Mbit <- WORKS Perfect
lenya.avi (DivX 3.11 SBC 512x304) Mp3 192 kbps VBR) 2.7 Mbit <- WORKS Perfect

SeeMoreDigital
5th December 2003, 12:16
Very nice results....

I notice you did not try any 720x480/576 anamorhic encodes!

I just wondered what would happen and if you are able to pull the image down manually.

Cheers

seewen
8th December 2003, 02:23
Originally posted by monty0815

- also seems to have some problems with avimux files, eventhough it worked with an avimuxed clip that had vbr mp3 sound

I think the problem comes from the "Rec List" feature. If you disable it, it would maybe work.

colinhunt
8th December 2003, 15:48
Hiya folks!

Very interesting, this Gran Prix player. Now, can someone help me to buy one of them? Any webstores selling it yet?

cheerio,
colin

Doom9
8th December 2003, 16:12
I don't think you can buy 'em anywhere right now. It was a special offer at an Austrian retail store that ended last Friday (and the players were probably sold out even before that). Maybe one will show up on ebay. I've already seen elta 8883, which is a very similar player (based on the same chipset) on ebay so at the moment this might be your best shot.

monty0815
9th December 2003, 22:08
@ seween
what is that "Rec. list" feature you are talking about?

btw. CruNcher thanks for your time and the nice review

cu, monty

straycat
11th December 2003, 13:18
For those who search for the Player on eBay: The device was sold under 2 different names in Austria. In some 'Hofer'-stores they were sold as 'Gran Prix DVD-404', in others they were sold as 'Silva DVD-404'. The players are _exactly_ the same, the only difference is the label on the device itself and a different background-logo when you enter the settings.

The distributor of the player is a company called 'Silva-Schneider'. They have a webpage (www.silva-schneider.at), but there is absolutely nothing of value to see there.

Doom9
14th December 2003, 14:15
I finally got to test my player yesterday and I noted that the divx/xvid output is in 4:3 mode even if the player is set to 16:9. I find that a good thing since now you can use your TV to adjust the AR just like you do it with DVD. So, if somebody would want to encode an AVI anamorphically, all you need to do is set your TV to 16:9 and the movie will be properly stretched. And for 1:1 AR AVIs, you can use the regular 4:3 letterboxed stretching mode to fill the 16:9 TV. So, you don't really need AR flagging as you can do it with your TV remote (provided you can spot an improper AR.. my parents are notoriously bad at).

I love the fast forward/backward and fast jumping to a certain point in the movie.. that's much better than on the elta 8882. But I noted that using pause and ff/fb can lead to some asynch problems from time to time (audio keeps going, video speeds up for a couple of seconds, then slows down to slow-mo, until after some 5-10 seconds everything is back to normal again). This only happened with VBR MP3, the AVI-AC3 file I tried didn't have that problem. I also didn't spot a playlist feature, but if you have multiple AVIs in the same directory, the player simply loads the next one if it's done playing one so your 2 CD rips on a DVD-R won't be a problem.
What I missed (I had that on the elta) was some useful information about the source.. the elta showed the total play time and the codec used).

SeeMoreDigital
14th December 2003, 14:49
Originally posted by Doom9
So, if somebody would want to encode an AVI anamorphically, all you need to do is set your TV to 16:9 and the movie will be properly stretched. And for 1:1 AR AVIs, you can use the regular 4:3 letterboxed stretching mode to fill the 16:9 TV. So, you don't really need AR flagging as you can do it with your TV remote (provided you can spot an improper AR.. my parents are notoriously bad at). I mark the PAR positions on all our 4:3 PC and 16:9 plasma monitors both at work and at home!

I too hate visiting my parents and being forced into watching what are obvious 4:3 images, stretched to 16:9!

Panasonic TV are notorious for doing this, regardless of setup.

Cheers

monty0815
14th December 2003, 15:36
I couldn`t find a way to make it show the codec, but there is a display button which shows you the length of the clip, when it is played.