How do I make VP6/EVD DVR-R's?

[trbarry]

Maybe a bit premature for this question and maybe not even the right forum but this is where the VP6 interest seems to be.

The new Chinese EVD disc standard allows for players to have optional DVD compatibility. But that means that at least some of them will likely be able to read DVD-R's. And the VP6 codec is available free for personal use so I could maybe make VP6/DVD-R's that would play in those players. But, unlike MPEG-2, the new players can do HDTV so I could possibly master and store my HD recordings and have an economical hardware player for them at HDTV resolutions, say 1280x720.

Anyone have any idea if this will fly? Or does anyone already know how to go about doing this? Or about any obvious show stoppers?

- Tom

[Blight]

I think it's too early... they didn't close their specs yet, without some sort of actual device and capabilities list, you can't really assume anything.

[The Belgain]

Is there any news on when the final spec will come out? Any news on whether or not this standard is getting any kind of backing from the movie studios (ie will there be any material legally available on these discs, preferably in HD). Does the standard say anything about what kind of media the files are to be stored on?

[The Edge]

The standard was submitted last Thursday. (20th)

Edge

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by trbarry
... But, unlike MPEG-2, the new players can do HDTV so I could possibly master and store my HD recordings and have an economical hardware player for them at HDTV resolutions, say 1280x720... Hmm!

I have another question. Which is very most likely in the wrong section or the forum!

NTSC DVD has a vertical resolution of 480 pixels. Current plasma monitors have a vertical resolution of 480 pixels.

The HD format Tom mentions has a vertical resolution of 720i/p. However the new XGA plasma monitors will have a vertical resolution of 768 pixels!

Makes me wonder what will happen when even higher def plasma monitors arrive. Will they have 960, 1024 or 1200 vertical pixels to compliment the 1080i HD broadcast images?

Who dreams up these specs?

Cheers

[trbarry]

The HD format Tom mentions has a vertical resolution of 720i/p. However the new XGA plasma monitors will have a vertical resolution of 768 pixels!

Makes me wonder what will happen when even higher def plasma monitors arrive. Will they have 960, 1024 or 1200 vertical pixels to compliment the 1080i HD broadcast images?

Who dreams up these specs?

Dunno. Though I believe most anyone from Hollywood will go to most any lengths to make things impractical for computer folks. ;)

However I'm also a fan of the idea that, when possible, movies should be displayed upscaled at maybe twice as many total pixels as the encoded value, in order to hide the underlying raster or sample grid. So I'm less concerned if things don't match exactly. And I'm hoping these new EVD players will be able to display everything on my RPTV at 1920x1080i. That's probably the most common standard for HDTV these days.

- Tom

[The Belgain]

Seeing as the spec has been submitted, how come no-one seems to have any idea about any of the specifics of it?

Just wondering...would be quite nice to be able to make these discs (especially for those people in the US who have access to HD stuff).

[trbarry]

Can anyone yet confirm or deny whether or not the new EVD players will be able to play HDTV resolution (at least 720p) VP6 files?

I think it was originally intended they would but there has been some speculation to the contrary.

- Tom

[trbarry]

** BUMP **

Well, it's been a couple more weeks. Anyone have any news (rumors? fantasy?) on VP6 HD playback on EVD players?

Or even ANY HD resolution playback on those players? I'm starting to wonder if some of the technology only existed in press releases.

- Tom

[ChristianHJW]

I emailed my contact at the Chinese standardization office again by email today, trying to find out more. I am realistic here, besides a nice email from them i didnt get any info so far, so i dont expect much now ...

[Sirber]

EVD in MKV could be very interresting :D

[drmpeg]

EVD uses MPEG-2 MP@HL video. All the press from On2 was a big bag of hot air.

The players do exist and are based on the LSI Logic Domino multimedia processor.
HDTV output is on the usual analog component at 1080i. I'm not sure what they
were talking about in the news.com article linked by doom9 about EVD not being
compatible with HDTV's. However, it is true that there are very few titles.

Ron

[Sagittaire]

EVD, MPEG2 and DVD9 (~9.2 Go) with 1080p ... !!!

8 000 Kbps (video ~150 min) for average bitrate in 1920*1080 ... !!!

MPEG2 is unable with a high quality encoding under these conditions. For HDTV resolution with MPEG2 it's necessary to have more capacity storage than a DVD9 ... and thus the blue-ray is necessary for MPEG2 HDTV Resolution ...

[trbarry]

If the EVD players can do 1080i component output I guess that is nice, since my HDTV can accept that.

But EVD will still be worthless to me if it is MPEG-2 only. I had hoped to use VP6 to encode my own HDTV onto 4.7 GB DVD-R's. I don't intent to upgrade to writing dual layer soon and MPEG-2 really won't fit HD onto a DVD 5.

I guess I'll wait for one of thos V Inc or other WM9/MPEG-4 HD players.

- Tom

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by trbarry
If the EVD players can do 1080i component output I guess that is nice, since my HDTV can accept that.

But EVD will still be worthless to me if it is MPEG-2 only. I had hoped to use VP6 to encode my own HDTV onto 4.7 GB DVD-R's. I don't intent to upgrade to writing dual layer soon and MPEG-2 really won't fit HD onto a DVD 5.

I guess I'll wait for one of thos V Inc or other WM9/MPEG-4 HD players.

- Tom Agreed!

It would be interested to spec sheet available for the MPEG-2 MP@HL video chipset!

Cheers

[drmpeg]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Agreed!

It would be interested to spec sheet available for the MPEG-2 MP@HL video chipset!

Cheers

http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/marketing_docs/consumer/domino_arch_pb.pdf

BTW, the main movie formats for EVD are 720p@24 for full length and 1080p@24 (1280
wide) for shorter movies (many Chinese movies are around 90 minutes).

Ron

[Sirber]

the on2 thing was a joke? (read: business joke) :D

[Soulhunter]

Originally posted by trbarry
I guess I'll wait for one of thos V Inc or other WM9/MPEG-4 HD players.
Originally posted by Sirber
the on2 thing was a joke? (read: business joke) :D
Stays WM9 really to discussion... :rolleyes:


Bye

[thegeby]

I took a look at the various press releases and I wonder if EVD is really intended to be MPEG2. Yes, the LSI Logic Domino technology is today used in MPEG2, but the press releases talk about technology, not a specific chip. If the same technology can be used to encode/decode VP6, there is no reason to assume MPEG2.

The EVD specs have been submitted nationally within the last few months. Are you really sure that the existing players you mention are EVD, rather than "EVD upgradable" or some other "almost EVD"? The Beijing E-World/VP6 press release seems to me to be quite clear in stating that VP6 would be used.

Finally, if the whole concept behind EVD is to avoid licences while providing superior quality, why would they go for MPEG2? It is by now "old" technology, but I think you still have patents in force.

I tried to look at the ITU website, as there has been claims of EVD being submitted as a standard, but I could not (yet) find any trace of it.

[drmpeg]

thegeby,

There's no speculation involved. I work at LSI Logic and developed
the MPEG-2 HD encoder for EVD.

If you look inside an EVD player, you will find an LSI Logic Domino
chip.

Ron

[thegeby]

I stand corrected

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by drmpeg
http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/marketing_docs/consumer/domino_arch_pb.pdf

BTW, the main movie formats for EVD are 720p@24 for full length and 1080p@24 (1280
wide) for shorter movies (many Chinese movies are around 90 minutes).

Ron Thanks drmpeg,

I've read the spec but I'm still not 100% certain that the lsilogic chipset can encode image pixel frame sizes larger than 720wide x 576high.

Are you able to confirm where this information is in the spec please?

I must be thick I guess!

Cheers

[drmpeg]

For MP@HL encode, it takes 3 Domino chips in parallel. Here's a link to
another LSI webpage, and also some digital photos that I took of a prototype
board and posted on AvsForum. The production board uses all BNC connectors
instead of the push-on SMA connectors pictured.

http://www.lsilogic.com/products/video_production__professional_/hdtvxpress.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2293712&fullpage=1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2293713&fullpage=1

The 3-chip board is capable of all the HD formats:

720p@23.976,24,25,29.97,30,50,59.94,60
1080i@25,29.97,30
1080sF@23.976,24,25,29.97,30
1080p@23.976,24,25,29.97,30

Ron

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well that certainly confirms that!

Real time HiDef encoding in hardware...... great stuff.

Thanks drmpeg

[dam8888]

feel free to read the contract at sec.gov

[trbarry]

It may not be a joke but it does not appear I will be able to soon make VP6 HD-DVD's and play them in EVD players.

- Tom

[stevenxu]

EVD player is on Chinese market now. More than 10000 sets have sold since New Year. The price is about 2000CNY (220 USD).

[Sagittaire]

Perhaps with VP6 HD but not with MPEG4 and WMV9
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/em8620Lseries.htm

Windows® Media Video (WMV9) MP@ML
Windows® Media Audio 9 Pro 5.1

Little demo DVD Ripp ... impossible with MPEG2 and 2500 Kbps
http://jfl1974.free.fr/Video/LOTRII-WMVHD.rar