IVTC or deinterlacing?

[rotflol]

I have an NTSC source that I'm trying to rip. DVD2AVI says it's 0% Film, the d2v file is all 2s from top to bottom. When I tried IVTC'ing (I'm using Gordian Knot) it, it resulted in an output video with a lot of interlacing, and some lost frames (I think). Should I try to IVTC it (maybe some other way than the GKnot default) or just deinterlace it? Also, what should I do to avoid stairs on slanted lines?

[homersapien]

Load the .avs in virtualdubmod and step thru the video...see how its interlaced. A quick and dirty method would be to simply use tomsmocomp() on it.

[rotflol]

I've checked in GKnot, because VDubMod says something like 'Failed to create script.', and I see 1 progressive frame in every 6.
Oh, and TomsMoComp has worked best out of everything I've tried so far, thanks for the tip. Still, I'd be happy to find out if there's a better solution.

[manono]

Hi-

Sounds like another lousy PAL to NTSC conversion. I'd run RePAL (http://www.avisynth.org/~warpenterprises/files/repal_25_dll_20030523.zip) on it, in conjunction with DGBob, to see if it cleans up.

[rotflol]

I don't know, I think it should be a lousy Film to NTSC conversion. Thanks anyway.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by rotflol
I don't know, I think it should be a lousy Film to NTSC conversion. Thanks anyway.
To be able to tell when to deinterlace or IVTC, read this (http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm) guide.

[manono]

Hi-

I see 1 progressive frame in every 6.

Almost by definition that means it's mastered from a PAL source, even if it's (perhaps) a Japanese or Hong Kong movie originally.

You can try:

Telecide(Order=1).Decimate(6)

But I think RePAL will do a better job. Or you can just deinterlace the whole thing.

[rotflol]

I see. It is indeed a Hong Kong movie.
Many thanks.

[rotflol]

Smee again. Different movie, similar problem. This time, following manono's advice, I used DGBob and RePAL. The results were not totally satisfactory. There are duplicate frames in the output file, which produces a strange effect. I uploaded a small clip so you can see what's going on: http://rotfl.neostrada.pl/movies/sha.avi (may be painfully slow at times).
When I load the .avs in VDubMod with Telecide(order=1), I see a pattern that goes like this:
FFFFDFFFDFFFFFDFFFFDFFFDFFFFFDFFFFDFFFDFFFFFD and so on (where F is an ordinary frame and D is a duplicate).

I also tried Telecide(order=1).Decimate(6). Less (I think) duplicates, some jerkyness, still not perfect.

Can anything be done to make it better or is this thing doomed to deinterlacing?

[scharfis_brain]

try to use smartdecimate(24,60)
instead of the telecide.decimate combo

[manono]

Hi-

My advice was for:

I see 1 progressive frame in every 6.

which you obviously don't have here. This should (also) work:

Telecide(order=1,whatever else).Decimate(15).Decimate(14).Decimate(13).

And are you sure that you have Top Field First (Order=1)? Run:

AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()

without any Telecide/Decimate, and make sure you don't have any of that forwards/backwards stuff going on. Of course, SmartDecimate will be a good deal faster, but may leave behind some interlacing.

[rotflol]

Originally posted by manono
[B]Hi-

My advice was for:

I see 1 progressive frame in every 6.

which you obviously don't have here.

I don't? I must be going blind, which isn't very surprising. Oh well.
As for the pattern of duplicates, I noticed that it's not always like I wrote above. It basically changes between that, fffdffffdfffffd and ffdfffffdfffffd, if that matters in any way.

This should (also) work:

Telecide(order=1,whatever else).Decimate(15).Decimate(14).Decimate(13).

This is the best solution I have seen so far.

And are you sure that you have Top Field First (Order=1)?

Yes, I checked that before.

Run:

AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()

without any Telecide/Decimate, and make sure you don't have any of that forwards/backwards stuff going on.

Nothing of the sort shows up, unless I'm being blind again.

[manono]

Hi-

I don't? I must be going blind...

All I was going on was the original frame/duplicate frame pattern you laid out earlier, which doesn't sound to me like 1 frame in 6 being progressive. But I could be wrong, I guess. I don't have a vob to look at.

As for the pattern of duplicates...

The script I gave will work for any pattern of 3 duplicate frames in a cycle of 15 frames. No more, no less. So it should work for both sets of patterns that you detailed. But if you still see some duplicate frames, and some dropped frames, you might try as an alternative:

Decimate(13).Decimate(14).Decimate(15)

Nothing of the sort shows up, unless I'm being blind again.

I was just checking. I've seen the patterns get screwed up myself when I have the field order set wrong. And you might give scharfis_brain's suggestion a try, also. If it works, it'll certainly encode more quickly. Good Luck.

[rotflol]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Dec15.14.13 proved to be the best so far. In a 3-minute clip I see 2 or 3 places where a frame drop is visible. SmartDecimate didn't work that well, there were more dropped frames.
Since, as I said, the dropped frames are few and far between, I'm starting to think that maybe I'm trying to attain the impossible, trying to get rid of all of them, maybe I should be satisfied with what I've got now. The result is definitely much better than regular IVTC, where there's a dropped frame every few seconds on a source like this.
Anyway, is there anything else I can do, any more information I can provide you with? You say you don't have the vob, is there a way to cut a manageable piece off a .vob file, so that I could perhaps upload it somewhere?