instant copy 8 twitch

[alibegoa]

first let me state that in my opinion instant copy gives you the best video quality. I tried instant copy and shrink 3 beta 5 using Apocalypse now redux and lotr two towers and instant copy is better which can be seen easily.

BUT it has a huge problem. Pictures in some movies like lotr two towers and pianist actually occasionaly TWITCHES (stops for a fraction of a second and than moves on). I reencoded lotr II dozens of times. I tried all different settings. Still it twiches every time at the very same place. At the beginning where frodo and sam first catch golum. I tried dvdshrink and it does not twitch. But instant copy quality is better.

Please anybody out there who can solve this problem?????

[maa]

It sounds like a layer break in the IFO ....

[Kedirekin]

Except that DVDShrink should suffer from the same twitch.

Does IC remove the layer break codes? I seem to recall it does. Perhaps we're seeing our first indications that it isn't always safe to remove layer break codes.

[tf]

I've done a backup of my Two Towers DVD with both shrink and IC. Shrink's version was superior, and there was no problem at all with the movie. Didn't see any problem with the IC version either, apart from being slightly inferior to the shrink rip.

[alibegoa]

But if I watch the original ripped copy off my hard disk everything is in order!

[Kedirekin]

Software players don't seem to suffer from pauses at layer breaks. I suspect it's because they're insaley fast compared to a set top player (both in terms of processing power and DVD read speed, especially if you're playing the DVD from files on the hard drive or a disk image).

The layer break pause only occurs on stand-alone players, and I'm not even sure if every player does it.

I should also point out that the pause happens on the original too. I should go watch that scene on The Two Towers to see if I get a pause at the spot you're describing, but I'm not sure I'm curious enough.

[alibegoa]

Ok this is what I actually did.
I always rip using smartripper. Then I use IfoEdit to remove everything except the main movie and audio streams and subtitles that I want. Then I use InstantCopy. If I do this everything is fine.

But when I passed two towers through IfoEdit and got rid of I think it was czeck or polish audio, strangely what was left was only about 10 MB smaller. Using shrink I saw that audio to be about 550 Mb. Using IfoEdit again I saw TT to have a bit strange construction (polish and english audio cross-referencing). When I used shrink just to get audio and subtitles out without compression now everything was indeed 500 MB smaller but audio and subtitles remained but just shaded out, and I had problems with default audio which now did not play by default. This I did not like so I used DVD2One to get rid of audio and subtitles using userdefined size which I set to 8000. Resulting files were about 6.6 GB and audio and subtitles were fine. These files played fine on my computer but twitched when I passed them through InstantCopy, but did not twitch when I compressed them through shrink. I tryed the same thing with The Pianist and Die Another Day (smartripper, dvd2one no compression, instantcopy) and got the same twitching.

Any help with TT will be appreciated. I want just movie with only English audio and subtitles, but others should not be just shadedout, they should be gone.

[monomer]

I believe when it comes to 'ripping and stripping' everybody seems to have their own preferred method. I usually just use DVDDecrypter to do the rip (in all files mode) and DVDFab to do the strip (right mouse click to designate the default audio track). Then, of course, the compression routine is also up for grabs. I used CCE via DVD2DVD-R for Two Towers and everything worked out fine. In general... I use one of the transcoders (DVD21, DVDShrink, IC-very rarely) for compression not more that ~90%... and I use CCE/Scenarist via DVD2DVD-R or DVD2SVCD for all else (and for ALL fast action movies).

[snidely]

I've done this title and my backup is flawless. Here is the recipe:

1. Rip with SmartRipper in all files mode (or use DVDDecrypter only if you turn off RC, RCE, and PUO removal first).
2. Use IfoEdit 0.95 to properly remove PUOs, RC protection, and to strip out unwanted audio tracks and subtitles.
3. Process with DVD2DVD/CCE for an absolutely stunning backup of this great DVD!
4. Run "get VTS sectors" in IfoEdit on the final files.
5. Burn with your favorite burning software.

[geffroman]

Instantcopy does causes twitches... Sometimes these twitches even cause the chapter to end... It doesn't happen often... I have seen it three times in 300 attempts. You can reencode and the twitch will be in the same place... If you manually change compression or add or delete a subtitle or sound track (anything to change the encoding stream) twitch will go away... It is a freaky thing and I haven't a clue what causes it...

[th3m]

Originally posted by snidely
I've done this title and my backup is flawless. Here is the recipe:

1. Rip with SmartRipper in all files mode (or use DVDDecrypter only if you turn off RC, RCE, and PUO removal first).
2. Use IfoEdit 0.95 to properly remove PUOs, RC protection, and to strip out unwanted audio tracks and subtitles.
3. Process with DVD2DVD/CCE for an absolutely stunning backup of this great DVD!
4. Run "get VTS sectors" in IfoEdit on the final files.
5. Burn with your favorite burning software.

After the DVD2DVD finishes the enconding, do you process with ifoedit the files on the DVD-IMAGE\VIDEO_TS\ folder? And after that how do you burn the dvd? I tried the new img tool classic, but i didnt find it so reliable. (it plays the dvd on the pc and not in the deck sometimes)

[geffroman]

Is this an InstantCopy thread dedicated to finding a solution to the TWITCH or is this a thread for CCE...?

I have never understood why people who are partial to an alternative program cruise around looking for an opportunity to sell their solution against the topic of a thread. Specifically, if you are a CCE lover, why do you cruise through InstantCopy threads at all? Are you just bored? Did you get fired from Pinnacle? Did some guy from Pinnacle steal your girlfriend? Ha Ha...

Personally I would like to share knowledge whith anyone that knows something about the InstantCopy "twitch" and possible work arounds for it...

After all that is the title of this thread...

Just my 2 cents...

[Kedirekin]

I don't know if this will be welcome, but I offer it up anyway. It's a somewhat theoretical meandering (I don't even use IC), but perhaps it will spawn some ideas.

If IC were to compress a GOP to the point where B and P frames were reduced to nothing, would it result in an apparent pause in the motion of the video? Since P and B frames encode the changes from one frame to the next, it seems to me that removing all their data would result in an unchanged frame repeating several times.

I think this would also be true if just a set of B frames were reduced to nothing, though the apparent pause would be shorter.

It should be easy enough to see if this is what is going on. Someone who has a twitchy encode should be able to single-step through the twitchy section and see if there are a set of apparently repeating frames. If there aren't any, you've at least identified that it's a playback problem, not an encoding problem.

Of course, even if you do confirm an encoding problem it doesn't solve the problem, but at least it'd give you something concrete to bring back to Pinnacle. Maybe they'd then fix it in IC9 (and charge you for it :D ).

PS. I was really thinking about this in relation to rejig. Some people have reported that playback becomes very jumpy at high compression levels, and this theoretical idea occurred to me. I haven't had time to check out rejig, but I thought the same meandering might be useful here, for whatever it's worth.

[geffroman]

I guess it is important to qualify what each of us is referring to as "twitchy". I could be talking about a completely different anomaly than the poster of this thread.

My twitches are better described as artifacts in parts of the image. It would appear as a partial line of misplaced image data possible data from another frame. It presents itself sometimes as one partial line of corrupt data. But more often it occurs as several artifacts, one after another for a few seconds of video. In some cases this can cause a jump to the next chapter.

I have eliminated bad Ripping as I can make the same issue occur with different Rippers and different DVD-Roms

I have eliminated the source as I have used different original discs.

I have eliminated the idea that it was just a bad encode as I can redo the encoding with IC and the anomaly will occur exactly the same each time unless I change the settings to alter the finished video stream by changing the compression percentage up or down.

[DirtyAbdul]

Originally posted by geffroman
I guess it is important to qualify what each of us is referring to as "twitchy". I could be talking about a completely different anomaly than the poster of this thread.

My twitches are better described as artifacts in parts of the image. It would appear as a partial line of misplaced image data possible data from another frame. It presents itself sometimes as one partial line of corrupt data. But more often it occurs as several artifacts, one after another for a few seconds of video. In some cases this can cause a jump to the next chapter.
[...]

geffroman: i have experienced the same "twitch" like yours on different dvds, the latest being "bulletproof monk." my only solution was to resort to dvdshrink, although IMHO the quality is inferior to IC7, especially when it comes to reproducing fine structures in the movies. i wish i could use rejig to transcode the mpeg2-stream and remux it back into the vobs using ifo-edit because rejig's video quality is absolutely stunning! but this combo results in EXTREMELY choppy playbacks... :confused:

my 2 cents

DA

[geffroman]

Originally posted by DirtyAbdul
geffroman: i have experienced the same "twitch" like yours on different dvds, the latest being "bulletproof monk." my only solution was to resort to dvdshrink, although IMHO the quality is inferior to IC7, especially when it comes to reproducing fine structures in the movies. i wish i could use rejig to transcode the mpeg2-stream and remux it back into the vobs using ifo-edit because rejig's video quality is absolutely stunning! but this combo results in EXTREMELY choppy playbacks... :confused:

my 2 cents

DA

I have found that by adding back a sound track you may not want, that the encoding process will be different and therefore the jitters are not evident at all. It is not the perfect solution but it is still better than having to use Shrink when using higher levels of compression.

[DirtyAbdul]

aaah, good idea. will try that!

DA

[Jester700]

Does it consistently do this? I mean, if you encode a movie and this happens, what if you encode it again with the exact same settings? If it doesn't repeat the problem, then maybe adding the sound track is a coincidence and it's really just the second trial that worked.

[geffroman]

Originally posted by Jester700
Does it consistently do this? I mean, if you encode a movie and this happens, what if you encode it again with the exact same settings? If it doesn't repeat the problem, then maybe adding the sound track is a coincidence and it's really just the second trial that worked.

No, I stated in my earlier post that reencoding with the same settings produces the say results even though I have re-ripped and even used different rippers and different dvd roms.

The problem is just a glitch I only find in a rare few DVDs using IC7 or IC8. The symptom can be avoided but reencoding with different settings such as adding back an unwanted sound track. This is a lame solution but it works and it is better than having to use Shrink if the compression is over 15% to 20%.

I have never seen this problem on any other compression tool and I have tried them all.