help needed with vdubmod and matroska

[Landkaffee]

hi, up to now I've been using ogm, and decided to give matroska a shot. so I downloaded gabest's latest muxer/splitter and muxed an 1.27gb divxpro5.1 avi and 90mb ogg in vdubmod. I was glad to see that the file turned out a lot smaller than in ogm, but when I played it in zoomplayer or wmp, it ran jerky. I then tried muxing it with graphedit, the file got about 2 or 3 mb bigger than the one muxed with vdubmod and it played as smoothly as the ogm I had made before.
cutting the working mkv in vdubmod, each part again didn't play smoothly. Ok, I could demux each one of them and re-mux them with graphedit, but since vdubmod is recommended on www.matroska.org, I think I have done something wrong. Anyone an idea?

[alexnoe]

What does mkvverify say about the jerky your files? Which version of VDubMod do you use?

[Landkaffee]

I'm using vdubmod 1.541 build 2092 with the exe dated August 9th.
I tried mkvverify, but it doesn't look like it found any errors.

error.txt:
file name: vdubmod.mkv

file name: graphedit.mkv


But I noticed some differences (lacing, cache,etc.) in the onscreen messages displayed while checking the files, so I paste them as well:

D:\>dir /b *.mkv | mkvverify -stdin -fullcheck -summary 2>error.txt



Duration : 01:49:58.016
File size: 1.36 GByte
Segment 0
Muxing App : libebml-0.5.0 & libmatroska-0.5.0
Writing App : VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1 (build 2092/release)
Segment UID : 80 2E 40 17 F2 E5 F9 F2 82 DB C1 ED E9 B9 F4 5C
Timecode Scale: 1000000
Track 0
Number : 1
Type : video
Lacing : no
CodecID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC
biCompression : DX50
biBitCount : 24
DefaultDuration : 40000000
Default : yes
Enabled : yes
MinCache : 1
MaxCache : 0
Language : eng
Resolution :
Pixels : 688x384
Display : 688x384
Unit : pixel
Track 1
Number : 2
Type : audio
Lacing : yes
CodecID : A_VORBIS
DefaultDuration : 0
Default : yes
Enabled : yes
MinCache : 0
MaxCache : 0
Language : eng
sampling frequency: 48000 Hz
channels : 2

Position in file: 1,455,245,279 bytes (21 MB/s)

raw stream sizes:
track 1 : 1,360,412,437 avg. bitrate: 1,649 kbps
track 2 : 92,522,025 avg. bitrate: 112 kbps
--------------------------------------
sum of tracks : 1,452,934,462
file size : 1,456,555,257
--------------------------------------
overhead : 3,620,795



Duration : 01:49:58.017
File size: 1.36 GByte
Segment 0
Muxing App : DirectShow Matroska Muxer
Timecode Scale: 1000000
Track 0
Number : 1
Type : video
Lacing : yes
CodecID : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC
biCompression : DX50
biBitCount : 24
DefaultDuration : 40000000
Default : yes
Enabled : yes
MinCache : 1
MaxCache : 1
Language : eng
Resolution :
Pixels : 688x384
Display : 688x384
Unit : pixel
Track 1
Number : 2
Type : audio
Lacing : yes
CodecID : A_VORBIS
DefaultDuration : 0
Default : yes
Enabled : yes
MinCache : 1
MaxCache : 1
Language : eng
sampling frequency: 48000 Hz
channels : 2

Position in file: 1,457,669,686 bytes (17 MB/s)

raw stream sizes:
track 1 : 1,360,412,437 avg. bitrate: 1,649 kbps
track 2 : 92,522,025 avg. bitrate: 112 kbps
--------------------------------------
sum of tracks : 1,452,934,462
file size : 1,459,278,934
--------------------------------------
overhead : 6,344,472

[alexnoe]

Any detected errors would have been written to error.txt. The Graphedit file might be not laced (which would increase the overhead).

What happens if you remux the jerky files in avi-mux gui? Does it stay jerky?

Plan B: use mkvinfo -v -v on both files, zip the logs and upload them somewhere

[Landkaffee]

At first I thought by 'remuxing' you meant demuxing the stuttering file and muxing the streams in avimuxgui 1.15 alpha10, but doing so it seemed that ogg streams aren't supported yet. so I just added the jerky mkv as video-source, set mkv as 'standardausgabeformat' and saved it. the file is even about half an mb smaller than the vdubmod one, but I'm afraid to say that the jerkiness didn't disappear, but got even worse. sometimes the picture freezes completely and picks up
with the next keyframe, and about 20 seconds into the movie I get a 'C++ runtime error' (which doesn't prevent the movie from going on, however).
I also tried to remux the working mkv in avimuxgui, but, the processing-window having flashed up for a moment, it stops with a 15kb file and without error message.
as far as plan b is concerned, I must admit that I haven't found an option to write a log-file and as the ms-dos window is full pretty soon and the top cut off, I can't even copy and paste. I made 2 mkv's of only 10 seconds with both graphedit and vdubmod, which show the same 'symptoms', but even those aren't fully displayed in mkvinfo (only about 1 sec fits in the window). since I've never uploaded anything except via e-mail that would be easiest for me, provided I
manage to produce a log-file, of course.

[alexnoe]

You can write log files in DOS by redirecting stdout like this:
mkvverify -v -v (more settings and filename) >log.txt

If the jerkyness gets worse in avimux gui, then this indeed is a hint that the lacing is the problem.

We'll know more when having those logs

[Landkaffee]

Alright, I think I've got it now. thanx for the advice with the log-file, that might come handy some time. I only made logs of the first 10sec in order not to make them too big and the upload last too long (time's money when you've got 56k), but I think they'll be conclusive enough. I also added the log of the vdubmod-file that I've remuxed with avimux gui. I sent them to the e-mail adress given on your homepage. (I hope I didn't have to compile mkvtoolnix-0.7.0 or anything, cos I didn't and wouldn't know how.)

[alexnoe]

I'm using a 100 MBit broadband connection, so any log that fits into my mailbox is fine :)

I'll have a look at those

[alexnoe]

I can't see anything wrong in those logs. I vote for a b0rked decoder or matroska read filter

[Suiryc]

Try to mux the file but disabling lacing this time (you can disable it in the preferences for VDubMod). Does the jerkyness disappears ?

[Landkaffee]

Thanx, Suiryc, I'd never have found that option myself, cos I expected the preferences in vdubmod to be the same as in vdub.

disabling lacing resulted in a file-size almost identical to the graphedit-file and a strong reduction of stuttering, altough not complete disappearance. it's only noticable in panning scences and may be put down to a cameraman with a shaky hand, if one hadn't the comparison to the graphedit-file. I compared them several times to make sure.

quite strange, isn't it? since lacing is enabled by default, it probably doesn't make any troubles on most pc's. that brings up the question why it does on mine (both windows98 and xp-pro, 900athlon, gforce2gts, etc) and whether matroska in general is not yet reliable on all systems.

[alexnoe]

Lacing is not supposed to be causing trouble. You clearly encounter Bugs as large as in Starship Troopers.

[Landkaffee]

Well, I think I'll stick with ogm for the time being. thanks for the effort.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Landkaffee
Well, I think I'll stick with ogm for the time being. thanks for the effort.

One last try :

Use Mosu's MKVmerge to make the MKV, in latest version 0.7.0 it comes with a nice GUI on Windows and also has automatic splitting function :

http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/

If you play the video ( both the jerky made with VdubMod and/or AVImux-GUI_MKV , and the smooth one made with Graphedit ), try to right click on the matroskasplitter.ax playback filter and tell me what version is used.

Also, do you have CoreVorbis (http://corevorbis.corecodec.org) installed ?? Note that MKV files generally always play jerky if only Tobias' old OggDS Vorbis decoders is installed, CoreVorbis is a must when Vorbis is played from MKV !!. It was reported that files made with Gabest' matroskamuxer.ax are suffering from this less than other files, for whatever reason, so this fits very well into the picture.

Its important to know in this respect that OggDS and CoreVorbis dont interefere at all, so you can have both filters installed on your PC without problems.

Christian

[alexnoe]

It was reported that files made with Gabest' matroskamuxer.ax are suffering from this less than other files, for whatever reason I don't like 'for whatever reason' too much. Shouldn't someone find out why Gabest's files are less affected? :angry:

[Landkaffee]

Alright, I plead guilty. If I had bothered to thoroughly read the playback guide under www.matroska.org, there wouldn't have been any problems at all (to me it looked more like a muxing or program-related issue than a playback one, sorry. some people just seem to have to learn it the hard way). with corevorbis each file plays without any jerks at all. In fact matroska is performing that well, that I feel very much obliged to use it for my dvd-rips from now on. long live matroska!

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by alexnoe
I don't like 'for whatever reason' too much. Shouldn't someone find out why Gabest's files are less affected? :angry: .. Hmmmm ... honi soit qui mal y pense :D .... but wouldnt it be natural that the DirectShow wizzard found a way to make matroskamuxer created files even work fine with Tobias' OggDS filters, somehow ?

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Landkaffee Alright, I plead guilty. If I had bothered to thoroughly read the playback guide under www.matroska.org, there wouldn't have been any problems at all (to me it looked more like a muxing or program-related issue than a playback one, sorry. some people just seem to have to learn it the hard way). with corevorbis each file plays without any jerks at all. In fact matroska is performing that well, that I feel very much obliged to use it for my dvd-rips from now on. long live matroska!

Long live matroska's users, especially if they have the seriousity to tell others if they made a mistake, instead of blaming the container :) !

[Landkaffee]

I concur.

[North2Polaris]

I too have decided to try Matroska and have run into a problem.

I have an AVI file from a TV capture using Huffy v2.1.1 - CCESP Patch v0.2.2 and PCM audio. I loaded the file into VDM 1.5.4.1 (build 2092/release), cut out the commercials, deinterlaced, used PixieDust, resized, and saved as a mkv file, again using v2.1.1 - CCESP Patch v0.2.2 and PCM audio (my goal was to try to eventually create a mkv DivX5.1 file).

I can play this Huffy mkv file in TCMP without any problems, but when I try to open the file in VDM, I get a VirtualDub Error "No video stream". I used mkvmerge on this mkv file and created a new mkv file, which will also play in TCMP, but with the same error in VDM.

Any suggestions for how to open this mkv file in VDM would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by North2Polaris Any suggestions for how to open this mkv file in VDM would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ... it plays fine in TCMP, but VdubMod cant open it, while mkvmerge can ? Thats a bug :D .... i send Cyrius here .... thx for bearing with us, maybe its already solved and i didnt hear about it ...

BTW : can you please run mkvverify on the file ( link is above ) ?

[alexnoe]

I had the same problem with VDM 2092. It is b0rked. Use a newer version

[North2Polaris]

I ran mkvverify.exe and the error text file lists only the name of the file, which I assume means that no errors were found. Is this correct?

In terms of VDM, I am using CVS 2003-08-09, which is the most recent version that I can find at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualdubmod/

Is there a more recent version of VDM?

Thanks.

[Suiryc]

Try the version here (http://cyrius.bunkus.org/VDubMod_Release.zip).

When you say it doesn't open it, does it actually start parsing the file (a "Matroska input filter" window should appear) or does it give you the "No video stream" right away ?
There was a bug where an invalid (too short) size was written inside the Matroska file. When opening a Matroska file VDM would just not do it if this size was indeed too short ^^; (i.e. it wouldn't even start parsing and just leave, resulting in a "No video stream" error).
However if you say that you made another mkv file with mkvmerge and that VDM wouldn't open it either (i.e. without parsing), then maybe mkvmerge has the same bug than VDM :>

[North2Polaris]

The parsing in VDM did not start, the error message was shown right away. This was also true when I tried to open the file that I created with mkvmerge.

VDM was able to open and parse a mkv file that I created using the Matroska version of VirtualVCR, just not the mkv file that I made with VDM.

The newer version of VDM available at the link above worked just fine.

Thanks.;)