Scenarist: How can I set the subtitles to be off when inserting the DVD?

[LordClick]

Right now it always shows the English subtitles by default, until I turn them off in the DVD menu. Can I have them off from the beginning?

The DVD is authored from scratch. Any input please?

[LordClick]

can anyone give me hint?

[influenza]

I think you have to do it by assigning some GPRM value (tried to find it for you on mpucoder site, but it can not be freely accessed anymore :confused: )

[Crazyjoe]

Give the main movie the following Pre-Command: "Set Angle/Audio/Subpicture" -> deactivate all options but the one for the subpicture track. Here you can select either a subpicture tack number from 1 to 32 or you could assign a GPRM value. This is the subpicture track which is innitially selected but not displayed.

But there could be problems with some cheap DVD Players like Yamakawa or Cyberhome. At least I had the problem on my Cyberhome Player, that it ignored that Pre-Command. These Players seem to take the DVD Specs not very seriously. :rolleyes:

But normally this is the right way and it should work without any problems. Just try it. :)

[SurfDrifter]

Just to make a notice here...

PowerDVD 5 displays sybtitles, ignoring the commands that each DVD has, so for instance, if you go to Subtitles menu and deactivate the subs, they will still be on...
It has sth to do with the right-click menu while viewing a film, where you choose "display subs" or not...

[LordClick]

Okay, I still have version 4 of PowerDVD, and the subtitles are on... But Joe, when I set the subpicture to 'off' at the beginning of the movie, they will be turned off everytime I start the movie from the beginning, right? But I just want them to be off when inserting the disc. After that the user should be able to set a subtitle and then that subtitles should stay no matter what the user does (e.g. starting the movie all over or jumping to a chapter). How do I do that?

Right now, if I put your command in the pre=command of the movie, the subtitles are always off UNLESS I press the menu button while the movie is running, go from the root menu to the languages menu, select the subtitles and press the menu button again. If I insert the disc, go to languages, select the subtitles, go back to the main menu and play the movie, there are no subtitles displayed... nor if I select a chapter :P

Thanks for the feedback in the Authoring forum Joe ;)

[Crazyjoe]

If you just want the subtitles to be off as default, but not each time the movie starts, you have to work with GPRMs.

Choose one GPR; from 0 to 15, give that GPRM in the Pre-Command Table of the First Play PGC let's say a value of 1. When the user selects a subtitle in the menu the GPRM should be set back to 0. And the subtitle track number should also be stored in a different GPRM.

And in the Pre-Command Table of the movie you could make then a selection like that:

1. if GPRM x == 1 Goto 4 (where x is the number of the GPRM you chose for the "display flag")
2. Set Subpicture to GPRM y: ON (where y is the number of the GPRM which stores the number of the subpicture track)
3. break
4. Set Subpicture to GPRM y: OFF

(these are not the exact commands. just to make you see what you would have to set)

Hope I expressed it clearly. :)

Greets

Joe

[LordClick]

Thanks a lot, I think I understand what I need to do! :) And yeah PowerDVD 4 also seems to have that prob...

I know that I can execute a couple of commands in the pre- or post-table of a pgc, but how can execute several commands if I press a button (e.g. to activate English subtitles, set a GPRM to 1 and highlight the main menu button/jump to the main menu)?

[Crazyjoe]

Originally posted by LordClick
Thanks a lot, I think I understand what I need to do! :) And yeah PowerDVD 4 also seems to have that prob...

I know that I can execute a couple of commands in the pre- or post-table of a pgc, but how can execute several commands if I press a button (e.g. to activate English subtitles, set a GPRM to 1 and highlight the main menu button/jump to the main menu)?

If you set a GPRM value via button command you can link it to the post command of the current pgc. Means after executing that command it will jump to the post command table and execute the commands there. But that needs a more complex command table for a motion menu, which needs a post command to loop.

But for a still menu it's absolutly no problem. :)

[LordClick]

you mean I set a GPRM in the button command and jump to the post of the pgc and execute more commands... but then I would need an if...then for every language, right, and...? wait a sec, I think it's alright, all I need to do is assign the language GPRM (storing the subpicture stream track that was selected), jump to the post and there I tell it to select the 'main menu' button in the language menu right? and I do that with all language buttons, with the only difference being the value in the language GPRM :P ??


another question I have that probably involves GPRMs:
- when the user inserts the disc first, and goes to the languages menu (in language domain of VTS_1) and selects a language, the dvd should change the language and then automatically jump back to the main menu (in language domain of VMG). However, if the user plays the movie, then goes to the language menu and selects a subtitle language, the dvd should only change the language and select the 'Main Menu' button. How do I do that? Is that convenient for a DVD watcher? :P or should the movie resume after he selects another language out of the movie (but then what if he wants to jump somewhere else instead of resuming). And does a DVD usually go to the languages or the chapter menu when one presses the menu button? (We have yet to get a set top player yet)

I just realized: How can I set two GPRMs, one for the subtitle display flag and one for the subpicture stream when I select a language? (it's the problem with executing two commands after pressing a button, because different values need to be stored in the subpicture stream gprm)

[drpaulng]

OK, I have the same problem myself. My DVD Player is set to display the subtitles ON as default. So, if I play any DVD with subtitles, it should play with subtitles ON automatically.

If you want to author a DVD with the subtitles OFF meeting any DVD Player settings, you have to turn the subtitles OFF by a conditional jump with GPRM at the very beginning of the VTS.

In general, we would design a Rootmenu with buttons jumping to various submenus ie chapter menu, setup menu (audio menu and subpicture menu for example)... which contain button to link back to the Rootmenu. Now, the trick is to add a "dummy Rootmenu" before the original Rootmenu (thus make the Rootmenu the second menu next to the dummy Rootmenu).

To make a "dummy Rootmenu", add a submenu and switch the MENU ID to Rootmenu. The following example has been shown to be successful for the job...[The actual syntax may not be the same in the following sample]:

(1)Make a "dummy Rootmenu" with a precommand jumping to the "real, orignal Rootmenu" with the condition set as:
If GPRM0 == 1, JUMP to the "real, orignal Rootmenu"
(2)Make a postcommand on the "dummy Rootmenu" like this:
SET SUBPICTUE OFF
JUMP TO the "real, orignal Rootmenu"
(3)Make a precommand for the movie like this:
GPRM0 == 1
(3)Make a postcommand for the movie like this:
JUMP TO THE ROOTMENU (Now being the "dummy Rootmenu")

If you insert the DVD freshly into the DVD Player, the dummy Rootmenu has a postcommand jumping to the "real, orignal Rootmenu", but it would turn the subpicture OFF first. Then on the "real, orignal Rootmenu", you have the usual way of setting things up, jumping to chapter menu, linking back; jumping to the setup menu, linking back....

[Note]:
The setup menu, so you author, should contain buttons to turn OFF/ON the subpicture, after setting up, it would usually link back to the "real, orignal Rootmenu".

After all the settings are done by the watcher, the movie is played...at the end it returns to the "dummy Rootmenu", the "dummy Rootmenu" would jump to the "real, orignal Rootmenu" seeing that the GPRM0 value = 1 (bypassing the postcommand of the "dummy Rootmenu" that initiates the subpicture OFF command).

[srfscenar]

why dont u create a dummy pgc in ur VideoManager setting as precommand to turn the subs off and the post command to jump to the mainmanu.

[srfscenar]

...of course u start the dvd from that dummy pgc...

[drpaulng]

Audio, subpicture, angle settings are disabled when there is no movie to be set (ie Titlemenu of Videomanager).

[LordClick]

Thanks, drpaulng, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly.

Right now my setup looks the following:

- In the First PGC I set GPRM0 to 0 (meaning subs are off)

- In the main movie precommand I have, according to Joe:

1: if GPRM0==0 goto 5
2: SetSTN subpicture=1:ON (to turn on subtitles in the first place)
3: SetSTN subpicture=GPRM0 (to switch to the chosen subtitle
4: break
5: SetSTN subpicture=1:OFF

- In the languages menu, when I user selects a language, in the button command I merely assign a number corresponding to the subpicture stream to GPRM0, eg. GPRM0=1 for english, 2 for German...

BUT!! The subtitles remain off, even though it executes the correct commands in the movie's precommand and the GPRM0's value is assigned correctly! What am I doing wrong??

It seems that the command 3: SetSTN subpicture=GPRM0 turns the subpicture off again! (if I remove it, english subs are displayed because of the previous command SetSTN subpicture=1:ON) I don't know why, because GPRM0 is 1 when I test it, meaning 3: SetSTN subpicture=GPRM0 is equal to 3: SetSTN subpicture=1 !

[Crazyjoe]

Originally posted by LordClick

2: SetSTN subpicture=1:ON (to turn on subtitles in the first place)


BUT!! The subtitles remain off, even though it executes the correct commands in the movie's precommand and the GPRM0's value is assigned correctly! What am I doing wrong??

[/B]

What about setting "display subtitle" for command 3 to ON? You don't need command 2. If the subtitle flag is set the corresponding track will be set AND displayed, and if it's equal 0 set the track also to GPRM0, but with display flag OFF. The player shouldn't have any problems with that.

Try if that works.

[LordClick]

I can't turn the display subtitle flag for command 3 to ON. when I select GPRM instead of immediate, it dims the 'display subpicture' check box and I can't select it!

Also, I combined the display flag GPRM and the subpicture stream GPRM into one subtitle GPRM, meaning if the GPRM is 0, this is equal to subtitles off, and not 0 means it will display the subtitle with the number in that GPRM.

[Crazyjoe]

Originally posted by LordClick
I can't turn the display subtitle flag for command 3 to ON. when I select GPRM instead of immediate, it dims the 'display subpicture' check box and I can't select it!



Ok, i see. I forgot about that.

How many subtitle tracks do you have? If there aren't too many, what about that: (assuming 3 tracks)

1. if GPRM0 == 0 goto 5
2. if GPRM0 == 1 goto 7
3. if GPRM0 == 2 goto 9
4. if GPRM0 == 3 goto 11
5. SetSTN subpicture=1:OFF
6. break
7. SetSTN subpicture=1:ON
8. break
9. SetSTN subpicture=2:ON
10. break
11. SetSTN subpicture=3:ON

Try that. It should work. :)

[LordClick]

I will have 7 subtitles... but yeah this version might work :)

Why do you think the display subpicture checkbox is dimmed when I try to assign a subpicture stream through a GPRM? And why doesnt it show the subpicture stream anyway, since I place a display subpicture=1:ON before that? :P me dont understand.

by the way, you're from Austria? I'm in California, soon to be governed by Arnie :) I'm from Switzerland

[LordClick]

Okay, now it works! But if I press the menu button while the movie is playing, change the language or turn it off, then press the menu button again, it doesn't change or turn off the language. Only if I jump to a chapter or restart the movie. How can I have the resume function run through the movie's precommands before resuming? Can I? :P

[drpaulng]

send me a email, I'll send you back the project.

My "alternative way" of turning OFF the subtitle regards no matter how many subtitles you've got. Just OFF without care which subtitles to be displayed.

(1)The initiation of subtitles OFF resides in the postcommand of the "dummy Rootmenu" that plays first under the VTS that contains the subtitled-movie.
(2)Then it jumps to the "main (Root)menu" which links to all other submenus including the subtitle menu...and finally after being set, jumps to the movie.
(3)When the movie is finished, it loops back to the "dummy Rootmenu" (naturally).
(4)Because the precommand sees that GPRM0 == 1 (it is set when the movie is played), it jumps to the "main (Root)menu" and keeps the last settings without resetting the subtitles to OFF (this conditional jump from the precommand BYPASSES the postcommand of subtitles OFF).

[LordClick]

drpaulng, now I understand! it's about bypassing the 'subtitles off' command, that's clever. and that works fine with no problems on set top players?

do you know how I can have the resume function run through the precommands of the main movie? or maybe I should put all the precommands of the main movie into the postcommand section of the language pgc? I'll try that right now...

[drpaulng]

Sorry that I have no idea about the resume function by now. I discovered and solved problem very much depends on the immediate things I encountered. I'll try to find out more about the resume function (read the manual). The GPRM/SPRM things are headache to me.

For the above issue: do this...
Author the DVD the usual way, then add a "dummy Rootmenu" to the VTS that contains the subtitled-movie. This "dummy Rootmenu" initiates subtitltes OFF when the DVD is freshly played, and then jump to the main menu (originally the Rootmenu). When the movie finishes, it loops back to the "dummy Rootmenu". We set a conditonal jump to let the "dummy Rootmenu" bypasses the initiation of subtitles OFF and jump to the main menu. That will serve the purpose.

I think some DVD authors would like to make a conditional jump for certain DVD pre-settings such as preferred language. For example, if the DVD is published in Japan, the author would forsee that most of the DVD Players are set to the native language of Japan. So, a conditional jump to the Japanese subtitles is set. When the DVD sees that the SPRM16 value is set to be Japanese, it jumps to the Japnese subtitle stream. If the DVD you authored contains 7 subtitles, you may set some condtional jumps that would link to one of them according to the conditon pre-set by the DVD Player.

[LordClick]

I just found the solution!

I placed the commands according to Joe in the movie precommand table (to make sure the subs are off if the user just plays the movie right away).

(One strange thing is that I can't select 'Immediate' when I just want to put a 'If GPRM0=0 SetSTN subpicture=1:OFF' command in the precommand table of the movie... so I can't make it 'If GPRM0=0', only 'If GPRM0=GPRMx'... turning the subs off if no language is selected would be all i need at the beginning of the movie :P)

Then I placed the exact same commands in the languages postcommand table, and had the dvd jump to the postcommand table right after the user selects a language to update the choice and select another language (or turn subs off if none). That way, I can choose the languages freely at any point in the menus!

YEAHHH! Thanks thanks thanks Joe and drpaulng and everyone! You are grrreat help! Joe you got e-mail too?

Another question, what is more convenient, to jump to the chapter menu or the languages menu when pressing the (root) menu button?

[drpaulng]

The menu id can be set as: Rootmenu, (and other submenus such as angle menu, audio menu, subpicture menu, PTT menu (chapter menu)). The menu id once being set, helps the watcher to jump directly to the specific menu by pressing on the remote buttons. The submenu id is not compulsary as some remote controllers do not contain such buttons. However, Rootmenu and Titlemenu button are a must in all kinds of DVD remote controllers.

If you set the subtitles menu to menu id of Rootmenu, when you press the remote button, it jumps to the subtitles menu because you set it that way, albeit being illogical.

[LordClick]

that's cool, it's an idea worth thinking about implementing. but I think I'll just let the viewer choose the subtitles if desired. I know many people in non-english speaking countries (being from one) who prefer seeing a movie without subtitles (given they understand english of course :)

[LordClick]

Yes, I understand that. I'm just wondering what might be more convenient, to access the chapter menu or the languages menu with the root menu button...? :P

Also: Is it normal that the DVD continues playing from the last chapter when pressing the menu button twice = resuming? Shouldn't it resume from exactly the last position rather than the last chapter point?

[drpaulng]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59745&highlight=russian+guide

This may help...

[Crazyjoe]

@ LordClick

If you want to implement the resume function as a command just select "Jump by subinstructions" -> "Resume". That's it. :)

Anyway, yeah, I am from Austria. The only country where DVD Authoring seems to be interesting only very few people. ;)
Tell me, what does a switzer man doin' in america? Vacation? Work?
BTW, I don't hope that Arnie wins, because that would mean he wouldn't do any films for a long time. ;)

[LordClick]

Paul, thanks, but I am not sure how that thread helps...? :P

Joe, you have a real market in Austria then :) I'm a film student, graduating this semester. That's why I'm trying to do the dvd, so I can send it out to people. Didn't know that I would have a hard time with Scenarist :) But once you understand it it's real easy actually. If only they knew how to write manuals. But fortunately there's this forum... ;)

Yeah I hope Arnie makes movies rather than govern!

[Crazyjoe]

Originally posted by drpaulng
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59745&highlight=russian+guide

This may help...

I don't actually see, how a russian guide will be of any help to the non russian speaking memebers of the board. ;) But anyway thanks for the link. :)

One thing I have to add here: if you are really interested in DVD Authoring and the technical basis of the DVD, then believe me it will be more help to read the Scenarist manual carefully, to experiment with the program and in some hard cases to ask the people here on the board.

In ANY other case you really should consider looking for some other software than Scenarist! It is and will always be a professional tool! And in my opinion it would be a waste of time to use Scenarist just as a convenient method for backing up DVDs (which actually many of the users on the board seem to use it for).

I wouldn't have got that far in authoring by searching the web for tutorials. I really started with the software and the manual and the help of the members of this board and nothing more.

What I wanted to say with that is, try it the hard way! It won't be always pleasing or easy, but believe me, in the end you'll be more sophisticated in DVD Authoring than doin' it the other way. :)

This shouldn't be any insult from me to the board members! Please don't misunderstand me. It was just a little impulse from me to think about. It crossed my mind when reading about - and in - that guide. :)

Greets and don't hate me for that ;)

Joe

[drpaulng]

There are 2 examples of GPRM things for "resume function". You can download them to make a quick analysis. Just a reference...

I think a lot of members in the forum are amatuer authors (me). I did not receive solid computer programing training, so I would like some intruction from people with more experience, hopefully...and share my own experience if I could. I am happy that people contribute in discussion...and so I grow up with more skill from it. Never mind any argueing, because it helps a lot! Argueing is good to the mind.

[Crazyjoe]

Originally posted by drpaulng


I think a lot of members in the forum are amatuer authors (me). I did not receive solid computer programing training, so I would like some intruction from people with more experience, hopefully...and share my own experience if I could. I am happy that people contribute in discussion...and so I grow up with more skill from it. Never mind any argueing, because it helps a lot! Argueing is good to the mind.

I know that most of the members here are amateurs. I was one myself when I started with Authoring about 3 years ago. And I also try always to help others and I'm happy if they help me if I'm stuck in a problem. :)

But I just wanted to point out that the thought occured to me, the Scenarist sometimes changed from a Pro Tool for professional Authoring to a simple backup program for some users. And that some try to take an easy way where there isn't one.

I didn't intend to offend anyone, but it was just a thought I wanted to bring into discussion when reading that post about that guide. :)

And I'm sorry too because that isn't the topic of that thread. If a moderator isn't happy with that please move it to another thread. :)

Greets

Joe

[drpaulng]

Good, just take a look into the 2 Russian Examples about "Resume function". I put the link here because I've got no time currently, and hoped it can help solving the "Resume" problem because I have no idea on the "Resume" issue in question. (I've briefly read about the "resume to the point off" and "resume to the beginning of the chapter"...but 've got no time by now to study these)

...Just thought that it may help.

Remember to click on the link for translated version.

[LordClick]

hmm, nothing comes up when I click the translated page link?? only a top bar, and then an empty page below that... I will try to check it out if it works again, it sounds interesting about the 'resume to the point off'? that way it should be possible to jump back to the exact point after selecting another subtitle for example, instead of the previous chapter?

I think Scenarist is a great piece of software, I chose it because it has the greatest flexibility when doing original authoring (not copying dvds). I really dont understand why the program is that expensive though, because once you understand the structure and procedures, it is a rather simple piece of software it seems. The manual just complicates things, I think practical advice from users on this board is much more valuable. I understand they must have gone through the manuals in the first place, but why does the manual have to explain things in such a twisted way instead of straightforward (with examples maybe) like people here can do it?? :)