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VxWorks
25th August 2003, 17:35
Here is the responce to "Houston we've got a problem"

Houston responds:

OK guys, here is our acknowledgment - the problem persists.
Now, we need to set up the round table (no King Arthur will be present, unfortunately),
and to discuss the situation with all of the parties involved ASAP.

For the rest of people confused by this message:

Doom9 team gave permission to create Russian Doom9 mirror to two should I say, competing parties (VCDRookie.com and Videoediting.ru). Both parties already started their translation, but since it is clear that there should be only one doom9 mirror, we want to discuss the situation and take all reasonable measures in order to sort it out.

This message has been posted by member of VCDRookie.com


PS. It is looks like my mail messages to Feedback were not received as I've got mail delivery error from your mail server.

slig
1st September 2003, 06:37
Hi,

I’m representing the videoediting.ru site. There’s no such thing as “competition” should I mention. But to say honestly, I suppose that our team wouldn’t cooperate since it’s made up of volunteers who are much in love with our site. And we really like that it’s absolutely ad-free (like doom9). And this is one of the reasons why we’d like to make a mirror. When I say “our team wouldn’t cooperate” I mean only one condition: the team would cooperate only if the site will be placed on videoediting.ru, that’s all. The reason is that “ad-free” is a sort of philosophy, all our team members support it. I think it's honest 'cause we're not making even little money from our enterprise. Waiting for your comments. It's a Round Table, isn't it?If you want to contact me personally, write on arty@videoediting.ru. Respect, slig

VxWorks
1st September 2003, 17:49
Waiting for your comments.
Here we go! :)

But to say honestly, I suppose that our team wouldn’t cooperate since it’s made up of volunteers who are much in love with our site.
Same I could say about our team, so what? This RT has been set up for a sinmpe reason - there is a conflict where the mirror permission was given to two groups and we all have to find a solution to this. This involves our teams and doom9 administration as well as these permissions came from them.

And we really like that it’s absolutely ad-free (like doom9). And this is one of the reasons why we’d like to make a mirror.
Maybe I don't get you, but please correct me if I am wrong: you want to make a mirror because your site is an ad-free one? A very good reason, should I say :) And, if we'll change the colour scheme of our site to the same as doom9 uses, will it be enough to encourage you to join us? :D

When I say “our team wouldn’t cooperate” I mean only one condition: the team would cooperate only if the site will be placed on videoediting.ru, that’s all.
OK. I wanted to propose some kind of a joint project, but if you are making statements like that, what can I say? What I want to get from you is a clear answer in Yes or No form - would you ever discuss a possibility of cooperation (I mean, seriously, without making bold statements) or do you prefer that doom9 administration will make a decision?

he reason is that “ad-free” is a sort of philosophy
Come on, be serious. My site was an ad-free one for two years, now what?

I think it's honest 'cause we're not making even little money from our enterprise.
So do we. But this is not a reason to call it a "philosophy". If I'll tell you that all of the money we've got from that single banner we have on our site, we are giving to our sister project (Netlab), would it make any difference for you?

Anyway, if you want to contact me to discuss possibilities (as I still believe there are some), I am open for conversation. We can continue our discussion here, or, if you don't want to use the open forum, you can contact me via mail: ther00kieDOOM9@hotmail.com (please remove the "DOOM9" when replying, that's anti-spammers measure).

Cheers,
VxWorks

Doom9
1st September 2003, 18:15
hmm... let me recapitulate: the videoediting.ru team wants to stay ad free and vcdrookie.com currently has a banner. I don't see the conflict point yet. A Doom9 mirror looks and smells like the mothership. Regardless of which server it is hosted on, if another site on the same server has ads that doesn't mean that the Doom9 mirror is going to have ads. In fact, ads require my explicit permission and any money earned must be invested to cover hosting costs and not for private gain.

@slig: Doom9 mirrors are no money making machines so you need not worry. Nothing VxWorks has said seems to be indicate that he intends to makey money running that mirror so I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I recall the Greek project that had two servers, and a domain, but they also could resolve their issues so I don't see why this cannot work.
Imagine if VxWorks indeed would insist on a banner to cover the hosting costs. There's a very easy solution to this: The mirror is hosted on your server, consequently without a banner. Ad problem and hosting issue solved. What's next? If he needs money for the domain registration he and I can work out a solution without resorting to advertisements.
I think you both have a team leader already established, so I'd also propose that you split up the site admin function. The leader of the videoediting.ru (if we assume they do the hosting) is the webmaster. The leader of the vcdrookie.com team becomes the translation coordinator. Both jobs are timeconsuming (the webmaster not only uploads new guides but also has to ensure that the news is up-to-date.. possibly translating this by yourself as most other Doom9 mirror webmasters do) so if I were you, I wouldn't object to splitting it up. I'd only gladly split up my own function to give me a bit more time doing what I really like doing: exploring new areas, trying out stuff until I have enough new info to write a guide.

slig
3rd September 2003, 03:56
VxWorks:

I’m open for conversation too – nothing personal. Ok, what do you think about Doom9’s suggestion?

Respect, slig

VxWorks
4th September 2003, 01:54
Great!

So let's start the discussion. :)

As far as I can see, there are five possibilities open to us in this situation:

1. The mirror will be hosted and managed by VE (videoediting.ru) and the team from VR (vcdrookie.com) will join it. This was your original proposal but our team disagree.
2. The same but VE team joins VR team. I think I know what your response will look like :)
3. Splitting up. The site will be hosted by VE and the discussion forum will be hosted by VR or vice versa. This, hovewer, requires further discussion on who does what and how.
4. Both of us will agree that the decision must be made by Doom9.. No comments on this one.
5. Creating two mirrors: official and unofficial. In this case, one of the mirrors will have only some articles translated, but, on the other hand, it may not follow mirror's restrictions. Doom9 may link to both sites, but each site will link to another while stating "official is here/unofficial is there"

As to the money talk - we've paid for domain and hosting already, so there shouldn't be money problem. Anyway, I can afford 80 quid/year for a good hosting.

Cheers,
VxWorks

slig
4th September 2003, 04:04
I think that point 3 is suitable. In this case we shall host a site and your team will host a discussion forum. Further discussion is necessarry but now we have to solve the major issue.
Is splitting is suitable for you?


Respect,
slig

VxWorks
6th September 2003, 14:01
Agreed. :)

Now, as I understand, we should put our translation team leaders and technical staff in touch, so they would be able to discuss on how do we proceed.
As I don't want to discuss things like that on open forum, I'll ask my technical team to create special "for your eyes only" section on the upcoming doom9.ru forum and then I will send you an invitation message. Is this OK with you?

Cheers,
VxWorks

Doom9
6th September 2003, 14:40
I'm really glad you're sorting this out on your own :)
I also think it's a good idead that you have a section on the forum for all the people involed in the mirror. Also, I shall add you to the mirror operators user group on this forum so you'll have access to a private place where all the people in charge of the other mirrors have access to, so you can ask us questions related to running a mirror in more privacy.

slig
7th September 2003, 06:03
VxWorks:

Ok!

I'm waiting. My e-mail is in the beginning of the thread, remember?


Doom9:

Ok, I think the thread is done now - you were right with your suggestion to come to your forum.

Respect, slig

len0x
12th September 2003, 11:59
I see that you're actually very close to starting translation of the site, so just wanted to ask if any of the groups here are interested in keeping russian translation of GordianKnot up to date. I had a couple of guys from IXBT forum which did transaltions of GK 0.28.5 (may be not completely), but I'd like to have it updated as frequent as english version. So how about collaboration in this matter?

P.S. I will have some comments about translating GK guides if you need them...

Doom9
13th September 2003, 23:48
it's been a week. How's the organization coming along? I just noted that the doom9.ru domain was no longer active.

slig
14th September 2003, 00:50
Doom9:

We haven't received any messages from VR team yet. Hope soon they will come.

len0x:

i'll think it out and mail you when we'll make a decision.

Respect,

slig

VxWorks
19th September 2003, 10:28
Hi all,

sorry for the delay - I've been on a business trip quite away from my PC.

Meanwhile, our translators had a lengthy internal discussion and, finally, they've decided to give up this project in favour of VE.

Sorry (again) for being a time-waster. :(

Personally, I wish you success in this not-so-easy task and hope we will see the Russian mirror up and running in the very near future!

Cheers,
VxWorks

slig
21st September 2003, 23:23
VxWorks

Ok, fine. Thanx for your good wishes.

Respect,
slig