I'm considering writing commercial plugins - Advice?

[trbarry]

I know very little of NLE packages, and don't have one. But they seem to be fairly expensive and it looks like a market where people might pay for plugins.

Usually I like to write open source free video code just because it's useful and I just like open source for a number of reasons. And I'll probably continue to do that. But I also need the money and I'm considering trying to write a few commercial plugins where I can actually get some $$$'s out of the excercise.

It seems like it's possible to write plugins for Adobe Premier or Vegas Video and if I did it might be something the business market would be willing to pay for. I'm not even sure what I'd target but was looking for any advice here. Anyone think there is a market for this sort of thing? If so, which package should I target first assuming I was targeting business/professional folks more likely to pay for things?

- Tom

[Arky]

Well, I know Pinnacle are a little coy about their plugin interface architecture, but I can tell you that Edition is a fast-rising player on the NLE scene, and it has virtually no direct plugins whatsoever, apart from Boris FX/Graffiti/RED, Final Effects, Ultimatte, Spice Master, TitleDeko Pro and Hollywood FX Pro.

There are workarounds using the superb X-send feature (X-sending is possible to Quicktime itself, Pinnacle Commotion, Adobe After Effects etc.), but I for one would really welcome some decent direct plugins for the program. Edition is generally bought by serious corporations and prosumers/enthusiasts, so there would definitely be money to be made if you could successfully code some plugz for this program. Furthermore, Edition is essentially exactly the same core code as the stratospherically-priced 'Liquid' range of NLEs, bought by the most serious of serious users - big T.V. networks etc. Big bucks = big opportunities.

Of course, Vegas and Premiere are also excellent candidates, with a more accessible plugin specifaction. It's just that they are already fairly well-supported, for precisely this reason. With Edition, however, there is a massive void for direct plugins and your perseverence might pay you very nicely in the longrun. Bearing in mind that TitleDeko Pro plugs in to both Premiere and Edition, you might (I'm not a coder, so I'm only guessing here!), be able to glean some insight that way into Edition's plugin interface specification.

One suggestion for you is not a plugin in the conventional sense:

as I mentioned, X-send allows Edition to communicate with After Effects. However, this is only possible in situations where few effects have been added to the timeline - in more complex situations, it is necessary to use the (also excellent) 'Fuse Timeline' function, which outputs a full D1-DV AVI file, including all rendering, extremely rapidly. This fused file can then be treated normally in After Effects etc.

Now, if you could work out how to create a semi-plugin for Edition which would act in the same manner as Elastic Gasket does in Avid XpressDV, then Edition users could use After Effects plugins directly within the Edition environment, without X-sending or Fusing. I guarantee this would be a big money-spinner for you. Pinnacle refuse to comment on whether or not they intend to introduce After Effects plugin compatibility in Edition 6, but for the timebeing, and possibly even after E6, there is money to be made with such a 'mediating' plugin.

Good luck!


Arky ;o)

[trbarry]

Arky -

Thanks. Useful info all.

I can't afford to buy all these packages just to see how they work and probably couldn't even afford the time to learn to use all of them. So I was hoping to get a consensus here of where to focus first.

For some packages it's maybe not even possible to write plugins without some very expensive SDK or such but often the info is already available on the web somewhere if I scrounge a bit.

And I don't want to just try to duplicate some already existing functions from some other package that could already be ported by its owners unless they are now charging way way more than I'd need.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this, but it's a start. ;)

- Tom

[Arky]

Hmmm... I see your point that you are concerned that you might spend a long time developing something, and then be undermined by a company releasing a similar, competing, product. However, I do not think you are likely to find a 100% unique niche which some company has not already created a plugin for, on some NLE or another. It's a risk you will probably have to take.

Don't forget that there are demos available for most programs anyway. Certainly, this is true for Edition (version 4.5 is downloadable), Vegas Video, Premiere 6/6.5, and Ulead Media Studio Pro.

The reason I pointed you towards Edition is simply that there is a wealthy consumer base, a broad range of users - amateur, prosumer, and professional, and this is coupled with the fact that there is a dearth of plugins for the program.

Vegas or Premiere might be easier to start with, I suppose, but you will have far more competition from other companies who may already have produced, for these NLEs, any type of plugin you intend to create.

I'm honestly trying to be as logical and dispassionate about this as I can. Do you have any idea at all as to what kind of plugin you might like to create..?


Arky ;o)

[trbarry]

I'm honestly trying to be as logical and dispassionate about this as I can. Do you have any idea at all as to what kind of plugin you might like to create..?

Arky -

I don't have any competitive advantage where it's just adding a bunch of well known features or menus. Anybody can build a team to do that better than I can. But I sometimes get the edge in deinterlacing, scaling, or image enhancement where I can code some assembler and come up with novel algorithms that most companies would not attempt on current machines because they would just run too slow.

To be honest, the main reason I first got into video programming was because it's one of the few areas where performance really still counts on modern machines. By both trade and preference I'm mostly an assembler programmer. The rest is just icing on the cake to me.

So maybe something like a super dooper version of my TomsMoComp deinterlacer or a filter that makes very good quality HDTV up-converts or something.

- Tom (off to download some demos ;) )

[avih]

...The rest is just icing on the cake to me.
but for many, the icing IS the cake ;) so imho you should team up with a good designer to help u with the gui. attractive gui can make a hell of a PR ;) unfortunately...

best of luck,
avih

[Arky]

ok, well now you've actually told me where your strengths lie, I will mull this over and get back to you if I have any ideas.

All the best,


Arky ;o)

[Dvd@Best]

Well, i can buy plugins frm u, i own a studio where i need all this stuff time by time.
i will wait for further information

[trbarry]

Well, i can buy plugins frm u, i own a studio where i need all this stuff time by time.
i will wait for further information

Ahh, but what platform would you prefer they were written for (and prefer to pay for ;) )?

In the longer run I could port most anything to anywhere but there's probably a best starting point that would give me the most leverage.

- Tom

[phrentec]

diverge a bit here

Since you have extensive knowledge on coding avisynth filters and in programming/assembly in general, why not write a book on digital video processing programming. Or a CD with video tutorials or training material in the form of video screen captures. I'de buy that since there aren't much.

[housepig]

trbarry -

I'll tell you one plugin I'd pay dearly for would be a "wrapper" or conversion utility to use Adobe AfterEffects & Premiere plugins in Vegas Video.

I started with AE and Premiere, but I have moved over to Vegas, as it's more comfortable for me. However, I have some plugins that I'd love to use, and it would be nice to use them natively, rather than processing footage in AE, exporting it to Vegas, needing to change something, re-doing it in AE, etc.

- housepig

[FredThompson]

That would be a very useful filter.

Tom, have you thought this through? There's a big difference between being able to create good software and making a profit. Marketing software is rough, especially in specialized markets.

[trbarry]

I've been mostly away now for a couple weeks as I moved. So, sorry, I have not even been tracking the responses recently. I think I'm mostly back in business now except for moving my web page stuff.

I'll tell you one plugin I'd pay dearly for would be a "wrapper" or conversion utility to use Adobe AfterEffects & Premiere plugins in Vegas Video.

That's an interesting idea. But writing it would rely mostly on a knowledge of both Adobe & Vegas, not video algorithms. But I still might look into that. I just hate to start out by having to buy and learn all three packages though it would be a good education.

- Tom

[trbarry]

Tom, have you thought this through? There's a big difference between being able to create good software and making a profit. Marketing software is rough, especially in specialized markets.

Fred -

I spent 18 years as a developer of Compuware commercial software products and have probably written (or helped write) software that has grossed more than a gigabuck. So I'm pretty much familiar with the difference, though that was in the IBM main frame market and targeted at the business customers.

But no, I haven't really thought this through. I'm still in the exploration stage. If I never figure out how to make money from it then I'll probably just continue to stick to small free open source personal projects where I feel I can be useful.

But I still hope for more since I could use the money. ;)

- Tom

[FredThompson]

I completely understand and would love for it to work for you. I'm just wondering how the volume is large enough without, essentially, having somebody else market it which means they get the majority of profit for taking the majority of risk. Then again, maybe you could take the Michael Abrash route and sell to the Beast. Don't know if they still do it but a lot of things started outside and were gobbled up. How do you become "the" brand like WinZip, WinAmp, etc. That's what I'm wondering.

I've always wondered how much money the guys who write DirectX audio filters make. Some of that stuff is incredibly expensive but volume must be comparatively low. Same thing with the 3rd-tier PhotoShop plugins.

You know, maybe if you come up with something really, really cool and optimized which could be patented you could license to hardware manufacturers. Just a thought.

[V_ICE]

If you haven't already, download the latest demos of Adobe After Effects and the Magic Bullet plugin. This plugin would seem to be similar to your area of expertise and at the price it sells for you could see why a cheaper competive alternative might be worthwhile investigating. http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/magbulsuit.html

[FredThompson]

Huh, interesting. I've got a link for one of the film-look products where the author describes how they do it. Tom's already tackled DV chroma artifacts (Reinterpolate411).

[trbarry]

This plugin would seem to be similar to your area of expertise and at the price it sells for you could see why a cheaper competive alternative might be worthwhile investigating.

Is this Magic Bullet thing selling successfully at those prices?

I've already written varous Avisynth filters that do deinterlacing, IVTC to 24p, adding grain for film look, resizing, some color conversion and a few more. Maybe I should just package the darn things.

But it certainly shows why I'm interested in selling to the NLE market instead of just putting them on my site free for Avisynth users. ;)

- Tom

[FredThompson]

Thing is, they've already gotten lots of publicity for a 24 fps film conversion which works. The article I mentioned probably wasn't random, it was arranged with a publication in which they advertise. I'll dig it up for you soon. The link is on a hard drive in a computer I'm still rebuilding.

There's also a question of where their volume really is. Are they tied in with a known effects studio? Is this the downsized sibling of a studio tool sold under a different banner? Are they processing source for other people? And so on...

Another thing to consider, why would they bundle at a discount? Maybe they feel they've about exhausted the market for the full price so now they're going for the second tier. Look at what happen with the Kai stuff.

Tom, with which licensing model did you release your filters? Can you rework what you have into a bundle for commercial use without compromising what's already released? That might be an option, especially if you can beef up some things like motion-compensated deinterlacing.

If you can put together a package at half the price point and can get enough exposure, it might be a good idea. Are you also hanging out on the "pro" discussion boards?

[trbarry]

Tom, with which licensing model did you release your filters? Can you rework what you have into a bundle for commercial use without compromising what's already released? That might be an option, especially if you can beef up some things like motion- compensated deinterlacing.

I've released everything under Gnu GPL, but as the copyright holder that does not encumber me in any way if I do other things with the same code. The only exception would be a couple places like DctFilter that include other GPL code not my own. But those are few, and unneeded.


Are you also hanging out on the "pro" discussion boards?

Nope. I'm not a user of any of the "pro" products. But I suppose I should find a couple of boards where the likely customers are and at least lurk there for awhile.

Which would you recommend?

- Tom

[FredThompson]

http://www.creativecow.net/
http://www.digitalmedianet.com/

You might also want to look at:

http://www.toolsfortelevision.com/
the A/V links list on Donald's site.