MKV Muxing

[ChristianHJW]

just out of curiosity, would .MKV files created with latest VdubMod ( build 1946, you need the bugfix release from the bottom of the download page ) work ?

[stax76]

( build 1946, you need the bugfix release from the bottom of the download page )


I can only find build from June 11, I think it's 1639

[stax76]

somebody pointed me where to find this mysterious 1946 build, it wasn't a SourceForge page...

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Dolemite somebody pointed me where to find this mysterious 1946 build, it wasn't a SourceForge page...

Sorry Dolemite, i keep forgetting to check if the guys actually upload the builds they are handing to us via DCC or email, but this build was tagged 'VdubMod_release.zip' when i received it from Cyrius via email, so i was assuming he has uploaded it to the sf.net page also ....

[darth rosenberg]

Either someone felt the urgent need to rip Chris' post totally out of its context and make him look like a fool, or someone just did not understand the purpose of this question (hint: only dogs that have been hit will bark).

The original problem was about OGM muxing, and Christian probably wanted to check if MKV would work.
=> If that would not work either, then the source material could be damaged, and looking for a problem with the OGM muxer or OGM itself would be a waste of time.

[Valky]

At least normal Divx--> mkv seems to be working fine.

Hmm... I just can't find the audio-page on vdmod right now so I can't test anything more..(where did it go..) but I'll try more.


Edit: Also adding another mp3 stream seems to be working great.

[Ghim]

Originally posted by Valky
At least normal Divx--> mkv seems to be working fine.

Hmm... I just can't find the audio-page on vdmod right now so I can't test anything more..(where did it go..) but I'll try more.

Try streams/stream list ^_^

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by darth rosenberg Either someone felt the urgent need to rip Chris' post totally out of its context and make him look like a fool, or someone just did not understand the purpose of this question (hint: only dogs that have been hit will bark).

Thanks ... if i had said that, God knows what would have happened. It seems i am not allowed to help people, i swear my original intention was not to advertize using MKV but only to find out if his sources were corrupt ( then the same error would occur for MKV also ) .... not sure how long this can go on as its happening right now, i feel prosecuted like a murderer, while everybody who knows me is well aware i just had and have the very best intentions, that is to help with introducing a new, powerful open standard audio and video container for the community here .....

[stax76]

Either someone felt the urgent need to rip Chris' post totally out of its context and make him look like a fool, or someone just did not understand the purpose of this question (hint: only dogs that have been hit will bark).


my posting wasn't the best I wrote so far which I apologize for but giving a unfriendly reply on a unfriendly posting ain't much better

[darth rosenberg]

my posting wasn't the best I wrote so far which I apologize for but giving a unfriendly reply on a unfriendly posting ain't much better My posting was directed to the person who splitted the thread ;) There is nothing you need to apologize for :p .
You've just experienced on your own how much confusion a splitted thread can cause :D

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by darth rosenberg
Either someone felt the urgent need to rip Chris' post totally out of its contexthis original post was out of context!.
chris has an habbit of starting matroska discussions inside *any* other discussions.
there are many examples to the above claim. this time, it was at the audio encoding forum, with this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53957).

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
i swear my original intention was not to advertize using MKV but only to find out if his sources were corrupteither you lie to us, either you lie to yourself.
anyone who'd read an arbitary set of your posts can see you're a professional matroska spammer.

i feel prosecuted like a murderer, while everybody who knows me is well aware i just had and have the very best intentions,calm down, chris. no one is haunting you. in fact, if your behaviour had been carried out by another forum member, he had been banned l-o-n-g ago.
PLEASE, do us all a favour, stop for a minute, look at yourself in the mirror and consider the option that MAYBE people have a point in what they are trying to say to you for so long.

that is to help with introducing a new, powerful open standard audio and video container for the community here ..... oh.. no.. not again !!!!!

[pixolex]

LOL...i like the last part...

Don't be so serious...:D

it's just a point of ORGANIZATION...i think i Chris saw that...

but matroska it's matroska...it's every thing he said ;)...

[Atamido]

Originally posted by DSPguru
his original post was out of context!. It didn't seem out of context to me.

A user said that when he "performs this operation using this method, the result is bad." ChristianHJW suggested a slightly different method and asked if the result was different.

Another user had an identical issue, but in the end the user used the exact same method, and this time the result was correct, indicating a temporary unreproduceable error.

When I experience an issue encoding, I usually try it again to see if it happens again. I routinely mux clips into AVI, OGM and MKV to see if the results are the same accross the board. Usually they are, but sometimes they aren't. Its all part of troubleshooting a problem.

However, the original user has not indicated that the problem has been resolved, and the only suggestion that was made to help identify the problem was removed. If I had to guess, I would say that user has been hurt more than helped by removing the only suggestion that anyone provided.

[darth rosenberg]

DSPGuru:

Why do you comment on my post without reading or understanding it :confused: :scared: :devil: :beurk:

If you have no knowledge/experience about/with trouble shooting (which is the impression I get here; otherwise you would not have written that posting), then please leave trouble shooting up to people who have experience with that.

If people have trouble with an MKV file, the first test will be wether the same material works in OGM or (AVI, if possible).
But appearently reasonable trouble shooting with OGM is not allowed. This is strange, because software can only be improved by trouble shooting...PLEASE, do us all a favour, stop for a minute, look at yourself in the mirror and consider the option that MAYBE people have a point in what they are trying to say to you for so long. I wasn't aware that you are an entire people :D
Seriously, who do you speak about?
either you lie to us, either you lie to yourself.
anyone who'd read an arbitary set of your posts can see you're a professional matroska spammer.If you had read Chris' post carefully, then you would have known that he did not say 'never', but 'not', meaning that he refered to that one very post, and NOT to the entire amount of posts of him. Thus, any other posts are irrelevant concerning your comment. Unless you have proof that Chris' intention with this very post was advertising MKV, you are wrong about the 'lying'-part (read twice before you answer; especially note which parts of your post I comment on or speak about, and which parts of your post I do not say anything about).

If you do not want that any trouble shooting about OGM is done, then just say that you do not allow posts about negative experiences with certain OGM software (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57932), and people with problems with OGM will be left alone.
If you want that people with problems about OGM are helped with hints about how to trouble shoot, then say that as well.

But say something.

[Doom9]

If people have trouble with an MKV file, the first test will be wether the same material works in OGM or (AVI, if possible). I don't think any reasonable person would try another in-development container for basic testing. If you have a problem with the output of a program, you first make sure the input was okay (AVIs and audio files in that case). As an example: unit testing for programs in development. You should write your tests for rather basic operations, not a method call resulting in another 100 method calls over several classes.. if something were to break, you have no idea where to start looking for the bug(s)...

[darth rosenberg]

@Doom9:

If you have a file with OGG audio, AVI would hardly work...so you actually have nothing but ogm / mkv to test with. All you can do then is reencoding audio to mp3 and see what happens.

Yes, debugger sessions can take veeeeeeeery long, but sometimes it's the only way to find the exact problem :mad:

Switch between 2 in-dev-containers is certainly not going to result in a perfect answer as to where the problem comes from. But it will at least give a hint where to look first for a bug.

[hofmetzger]

peace!

Yes, ChristianHJW is very enthusiastic and convinced of mkv. and he often hided some advertisment in his posts...
but: didn't we do so when ogm came up, and we wantet to release those "stupid avi container people with unsync vbr audio" from their problems?

now we have 2 competitive containers, and i never read something like "if you have a problem, its your fault, use mkv...". In fact in all of christians posts i have read, he was friendly and never pressed someone to use mkv.

well, i'm not his advocate, but i think its unfair to offend somebody who is so engaged in helping the community.


ps: im glad about the matroska-development, but i also want ogm developed further, because devels can help and learn from each other, and half of my movies are in ogm :D

[darth rosenberg]

but: didn't we do so when ogm came up, and we wantet to release those "stupid avi container people with unsync vbr audio" from their problems?Would you be so kind to make a collection of those threads where ogm has been 'advertised' and post the links each time someone complains about mkv advertising?
I'm sure some people here need to read them before continuing to post weird ideas...

[Doom9]

If you have a file with OGG audio, AVI would hardly work...so you actually have nothing but ogm / mkv to test with. All you can do then is reencoding audio to mp3 and see what happens Of course, Vorbis won't work, but there was no evidence that non AVI compatible format was used... it's best to start with AVI unless you really have no other choice. And even then.. a guy who wants to use OGM has made up his mind. Imagine telling a guy who wants to use Reauthorist, to use DVD shrink. There's a good reason why people use ReAuthorist despite being more complicated than DVD Shrink.. and if you try to tell people to use another program, most likely you'll just upset them. I've seen it happen many times.

[darth rosenberg]

You don't understand what I'm trying to say....

In your comparision: if an alternative muxing tool produces a bad rip as well, there is a chance that the source is broken...

If the user is upset about that suggestion, well, then he does not want to be helped and is to be left alone with his problem

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Sorry Dolemite, i keep forgetting to check if the guys actually upload the builds they are handing to us via DCC or email, but this build was tagged 'VdubMod_release.zip' when i received it from Cyrius via email, so i was assuming he has uploaded it to the sf.net page also ....
The 'Release' in the name is just to say it's a 'Release' build, not a 'Debug' build :p
The builds I send to people by DCC or mail aren't bugfree (*cough* ok the official releases on SF.NET neither :p), and often implement half (and generally untested) of the new things we are coding. So use them with care ;)

[Doom9]

@darth rosenberg: I fully understand your point but I think it's the wrong approach. First you check your sources, then you proceed. Sources can be checked without having to be muxed into either ogm or mkv.
If the sources play fine separated, only then would I go to the next level and try to mux it into something.

[Atamido]

@Doom9: I would disagree, but I guess that is a matter of style. If there is a problem with the source that doesn't show when played back standalone, then you still don't know its the source. It does not take long to directstream copy both of the sources into a container and test the playback, and I have done it many times. I actually made a single file that I muxed into AVI, OGM, MKV, and WMV for testing with. I have it using a few different codecs also. Its always good to test the same thing, but with one small change to see where a problem comes from.

[Doom9]

pamel: I guess it also depends on personal experience.. I can't remember having problems with a muxed source, but that worked just fine as elemntary streams.

[darth rosenberg]

@Doom9: What about divx with AC3, or even DTS, in AVI? With wrong interleave settings, exactly that problem arises. Good source, bad output.
I don't see any reason to be 100% sure that this cannot be happening again. Maybe 99%, but not 100...

[Doom9]

darth: you mean fucked up scene releases? :devil: If people would read the faqs here that shouldn't happen, but that's one thing I have fixed as well (though the stuff I created on my own has never had such problems).