MiniDVD Camcorder quick question?

[kdiddy]

Do these cameras store a/v straight to DVD format on the disks they use?? I assume so since they advertise being able to take a DVD-R straight from the camera and play it on your DVD player.

[bilu]

MiniDV is not MiniDVD :o

Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > DV
http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=59


Bilu

[kdiddy]

so here's the link as Circuit City describes it.

Circuit Camcorder (http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&catoid=-8038&qp=00800&bookmark=bookmark_1&oid=70656)

[TactX]

After having a look at the specs and at some of the pictures provided, I assume that they mean 8mm DVDs with "MiniDVD".
Actually the camcorder has the "DVD" logo on it, which means that it is capable to record DVD compliant streams, but maybe just on 8mm DVDs (the camcorder itself looks a bit too small for 12mm DVDs).
And I doubt that you'll be happy with 8mm DVD ;)

[bilu]

MiniDVD - 10 to 15 minutes of DVD stream on CD, better for editing
http://www.pctechguide.com/24dvid3.htm

MicroMV - Sony's format, MPEG-2 stream on tape
http://www.pctechguide.com/24digvid.htm

@kdiddy

Sorry, I didn't understood your question until you posted the link.


Bilu

[Wilbert]

@bb,

Could you move this back to the General Discussion forum, because this is not related to DV.

[bb]

It's about camcorders, so the thread can stay here.

bb

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yes, I'm waiting for the new 'direct to Mpeg2' Digital Video (DV) camcorders to arrive.

Although I quite like the theory behind Sony's MicroMV tape format. I can't understand why they did'nt stick with the tried and tested DV tape format. You would after all be able to put hours of Mpeg2 video onto one of these tapes, instead of just 60/90mins of dv.avi video.

With the 'on the fly' encoder/decoder chipsets improving, recording direct to Mpeg2 is definately the way to go!

[bb]

Well, there are disadvantages with the MPEG formats, too:
- MPEG-2 is a pain to edit
- due to the higher compression, the impossibility of using VBR, and the so-so quality of hardware encoders, DV is clearly superior in terms of quality

If you ask me, I'd like to see the tapes replaced by HDDs, but recording still in DV format.

bb

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi BB,

Well yes, you are correct 'DV is clearly superior in terms of quality' compared to Mpeg2. But hardware decoders are getting better.

I can't understand why Mpeg2 is so difficult to edit either. After all it's quite a straight forward process to chop and move around video on Panasonic's DVD-RAM recorders. So, it's really strange that it's more difficult to perform such a simple task on a PC!

I think you're right about HDD idea. This would be an ideal solution for semi pro & pro use, especially if 3 colour (RGB) CCD's were combined along with Hi-Def capability. It would be quite cost effective to implement too - Probably too easy!

Ahh the stuff of dreams.......

[bb]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
I can't understand why Mpeg2 is so difficult to edit either.
1. Because unlike DV not every frame is a keyframe. And if you need to e.g. cut at a P- or B-frame, re-encoding may be necessary for a part of the GOP.
2. Because the MPEG-2 file format is not what I would call easy to manage...

bb

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well there you have it!

[kempodragon]

For myself, I'd like to see a camcorder with 3 CCD's, true 16:9 with progressive capability recording to a 200 Gig HD in either Huffyuv YUY2 or VBLE YV12. If they can make a chipset that encodes at DV bitrates, then surely they can come up with a lossless encoder chip. Recording in YUY2 or YV12 would avoid the problems that NTSC DV cams have, namely 4:1:1 colorspace. Of course, such a camcorder would probably cost more that I make, but it's still nice to dream about. :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Maybe we should design (and build) the ultimate camcorder.

I feel a thread moment comming on!

[yg1968]

Here is a review of the different formats and their pros and cons:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6500_7-1023271-3.html

[bilu]

Can anyone tell me why MicroMV is considered non-editable?

Isn't it possible to frameserve the MPEG-2 stream through Avisynth to the editing apps?

Bilu

[bb]

Bilu, if you want to go the frameserver way, I'd say yes in principle, provided that you get the microMV MPEG-2 converted into a d2v project.

I don't own a microMV camcorder (and probably never will), but from what I've read, Sony uses some weird kind of MPEG-2 format, which many programs stumble over.

Anyone here who successfully edited a microMV stream?

bb

[yg1968]

This thread might help you understand the difficulties that some people have with MicroMV:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167156&highlight=mmv

[bilu]

If streams are MPEG-2 TS maybe they work with Nic's MPEGDecoder filter for Avisynth 2.5.

Would be very useful if someone try it, although I'm not sure about sound... :rolleyes:

Bilu

[kdiddy]

I see now it uses the 8cm 1.47 GB MiniDVD-Rs.....

Which will do fine for what I need it to do. We are doing some short training videos at work that we would like to put on DVD-Rs to pass out throughout the rest of organization. Also trying to do it in a form that is easiest for my tech challenged end-users & involves less hands-on by my Dept. Don't have time for my people to be converting video files all day. And at the very worse I can copy to PC & recompile all videos onto larger DVD-R later if need be.

[bb]

I doubt that microMV uses DVD compliant streams, so if you want to put the stuff on a regular video DVD, you have to cope with remuxing and the audio synch hassle. Maybe PVAstrumento or ds.jar can be used to convert the microMV MPEG-2 into a DVD compliant program stream. But I don't know as I've never tried.

bb

[SeeMoreDigital]

I must admit I did'nt think there would be such a problem with Sony's MicroMV format.

I'm glad I did'nt buy one - for the company's use ofcourse!

I would hope that the miniDVD camcorders that kdiddy's refering to, do not suffer from the same problems. Maybe somebody out there (whose got one of these) could comment'

I would also be interested to know how well the Sony MicroMV cams cope with direct pass thru' of the video stream via the firewire cable. As I presume this data stream would be Mpeg2 aswell.

Cheers

[kdiddy]

SeeMore:

Should be purchasing one within a week. I'll let ya know what, if any problems come about.