UpmiX: tool to automate stereo to 5.1 conversion (v0.71)

[KpeX]

UpmiX has evolved into a tool to process many kinds of stereo audio into 5.1 AC3, MP4, or 6 wavs. See this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=480270#post480270) for information on the current version. The current download link is: http://dhost.info/kpex/UpmiXv0.71.zip (right click > save as)

Original post:
I'm not sure if this will be useful to anyone or not, but it's worth a shot.

I've put together a brief guide and AviSynth script that automates the upmixing process from stereo sound to 5.1 Dolby Digital using all freeware programs: AviSynth, BeSweet, SoX, & Nic's Call plugin. It's nothing very complex or technical [edit], it merely does some low- and high-pass filtering, normalization to different levels, and resampling. Input is any 2-channel wav file, output is a 448 kbps 5.1 DD 48000Hz AC3 file. This process was designed & tested on music, mostly hard rock or techno, but in theory could be used for movie soundtracks as well with some tweaking. This method doesn't do anything spectacular, but it is fully automated and really demonstrates the power and flexibility of AviSynth together with Call and BeSweet.

Feel free to post any comments, questions, suggestions, etc. Thanks to anyone who tries it.

Edit: Please see below for new method

[KpeX]

If anyone's interested, I've uploaded a 25 second sample of a song encoded by this method, one sample of the encoded AC3, and one of the original 2 channel wav ripped by EAC and compressed for size purposes via lame --alt-preset standard. Get it here (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAc3_samples.zip).

[KpeX]

@ kempfand:

Just to make sure i'm understanding you correctly: you modified the script for DTS encoding ? I'd be interested to see your changes if you don't mind posting the script. I was actually kind of hoping someone would come up with a DTS-script because I've never experimented with it. ( My amp doesn't decode DTS )

Edit: getting back to quality issues: I doubt this method will be very comparable to EoH's method, post length would be the first clue ;) However I like it because it's automated and it works well for music: It produces a similar sound in all channels, based on what ranges/volumes those channels are suited for.

[KpeX]

Very cool, Andreas. It's also nice to see BeSweet back in active development. I've also come up with a semi-automated method for encoding CDs: EAC --> 5.1 DD, if anyone is interested let me know and I'll post it. Filenaming is not automated, however, one still has to type in the filename at the end of each encoded track.

[KpeX]

Well, here it is, my somewhat-automated method to encode AC3 right from EAC ( Exact Audio Copy ), the best CD ripper out there. If you tried my other AC3 encoding script, this is pretty similar. Here are the steps:

Requirements
============
1. Latest BeSweet beta and dll's. (http://dspguru.doom9.net)
2. AVS2AVI CLI encoding tool. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36768)
3. AviSynth 2.5x.
4. Nic's excellent Call plugin (http://www.avisynth.org/~warpenterprises)
5. Sox CLI audio tool (ftp://ftp.externet.hu/pub/mirror/sac/sound/sox12174.zip)




1. Download EncodeAC3v0.2.zip (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.2.zip) (Right-click - save target as)

2. Unpack the contents to the same directory as you have the latest BeSweet beta, including the latest ac3enc.dll. Also put sox.exe, call_25.dll, and avs2avi.exe in the same directory.

3. Configure EAC: Set EAC options to save files in the directory mentioned in #2 as shown here (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EAC_options_1.gif)and set the compression with the path to the EAC_to_AC3.bat included in the zip file as shown here (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EAC_compression_options.gif).

4. Highlight the tracks you want encoded, and click the 'MP3' button in EAC. Each time a track is compressed, the compression will pause ( Please press any key to continue... ) at this time you can rename the file to its correct name, the .AC3 file will be in the working directory and have the name 'DolbyDigital5.1Audio.ac3'.

Notes: Make sure you don't have any other .wav files in the directory being used. This probably isn't the cleanest way to encode AC3, but it's nearly automated and hopefully will be useful. As usual, thanks to anyone who tests this method, and feel free to post any comments and suggestions or other experiences. Hope this helps,

[VidHack]

Hello,

I downloaded your tools a few days ago, and last night I played around with it. I used the P4 modified VirtualDub 1.5.1 to encode the .AVS, it appears that you have changed to a new App? The AVS2AVI CLI encoding tool? If so, please update your website. This is a very interesting idea you have going here. Being able to encode to 5.1 or DTS has some possibilities. I am pondering a GUI written in VB if I get some time. I will probably use some "AppActivate/SendKeys" to hook the apps, but what I want to do is add Slider Controls to the EQ variables, to be able to modify them on the fly, to get different setups easily and also to add a Automatic Output file naming routine. I will post the app if I get around to it. I am following this thread eagerly and hope many jump on board with this idea. Perhaps merging some of this idea with the "Virtual Microphone 5.1" idea may be possible. Hey you should give this project a name, like the "Kpexer Project" or something and a Version number, so we can track and improve it. Thanks for your work.

VidHack

[VidHack]

Messed around with your new encoding method. I originally downloaded your tools a few days ago. I was using VirtualDub and BeSweet Version 15b18 with an older AC3enc.dll (v0.21) - All was fine.

So, I downloaded this new way, using avs2avi (CLI), got the newest BeSweet 15b19, and fired it up. Well BeSweet spit out errors on every pass. I need to add the -log option to get some debugging going, but I figured you would want to know.

Also, added the -q option to your EACtoAC3.bat, and remmed out the 'Pause' (speeds everything up.

VidHack

[KpeX]

@ Vidhack

1. Thanx for testing :D

2. It doesn't matter what you use to encode the AVS script. AVS2AVI was just what i used for the EAC guide because it was easier to call in a batch file. Perhaps I should clarify that there are two methods for this, encoding individual scripts or using the EAC batch file.

3. The 'pause' in the script is for renaming of the file (i.e. artist - trackname ) if it isn't renamed, it will be overwritten by the next file. This is one of the limitations of this method, it's more of a quick and dirty solution than anything else. What effect does -q have? I'm not familiar with that.

4. The two zip files I already uploaded are numbered (v0.1 and 0.2)

5. I hadn't really considered giving this an 'official' project name or actually licensing/releasing it, because it isn't really a program, it's just an AviSynth script that calls BeSweet, I'm no programmer, but feel free to base an actual tool off of any of these scripts/concepts.

6. Your conceived app sounds great, please do post if you code it.

7. I will update my site soon with the EAC guide, reflecting my previous post.

8. Edit: forgot, about your besweet problems, I upgraded to b19 with no problems.....did you make sure to put ac3enc.dll in the directory? what is the nature of the error messages? aside from that, yes a logfile might help.

[KpeX]

Update: Html EAC to AC3 guide is now on my site (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EACtoAC3.htm). Thanks to anyone who tests, when having problems, make sure you are following the guide correctly, and post the exact error message and where it occurs. Hope this is helpful,

[KpeX]

New scripting method, now uses batch file rather than avs script, it is now much cleaner and more efficient, and is now fully automated with automatic file naming. Basically just download my latest zip archive (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/encodeac3v0.3.zip) and see here (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/eactoac3v03.htm) for specific EAC configuration options. I threw the guide together rather quickly so feel free to post any problems/questions.

Edit: Almost forgot: if you just want to encode a stereo wav and not rip with EAC, just use the batch file from command line:

Encode.bat "path\infile.wav" "path\outfile.ac3"


Thanks to any and all who test, HTH,

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
New scripting method, now uses batch file rather than avs script, it is now much cleaner and more efficient, and is now fully automated with automatic file naming. Basically just download my latest zip archive (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/encodeac3v0.3.zip) and see here (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/eactoac3v03.htm) for specific EAC configuration options. I threw the guide together rather quickly so feel free to post any problems/questions.

Edit: Almost forgot: if you just want to encode a stereo wav and not rip with EAC, just use the batch file from command line:

Encode.bat "path\infile.wav" "path\outfile.ac3"


Thanks to any and all who test, HTH,

I edited the paths in the convert.bat.
And tried it with a tereo 44.1/16 file.
During the process it makes (as expected) the temporary files. Each is about 40 MB. It then starts Sox and when it's all finished I end up with an emty AC3... ?

Problem is I cannot find what I'm doing wrong.

The posting of Kempand's example on Usenet : I liked the effect a lot, but got the impression that the LFE channel has some distortion compared to other versions of the same album....


kind regards,
EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
Update: Html EAC to AC3 guide is now on my site (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EACtoAC3.htm). Thanks to anyone who tests, when having problems, make sure you are following the guide correctly, and post the exact error message and where it occurs. Hope this is helpful,

Just wanted to mention : your website stays black in my browser !
(MS IE 6 on Win 2K sp 3).

Only after selecting all the text, I'm able to read it.....

kind regards,

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
EoH: Modify the script to see where the error occors.

I.e. take out the 'del %workingdir%....'. Do you still have the channel1.wav-channel6.wav ?

If yes, something with besweet -ac3enc ( -b 448 ) is wrong.

Regarding AC3: I never went this route, since dts gives better sound (i.e. I feeded the channelxyz.wav's into SurCode CD). I have no LFE speaker, so didn't notice distortions ...

Also: add '-logfilea BeSweet.log' so we can see where things go wrong.

Kind regards,

Andreas

Hi Andreas,

I did and ended with the channel 1 to 6 WAV's.
Downsampled (the save as in SF) to 44.100/16 and had no problem encoding them with DTS Encoder.

I'll do it again with the logfile and add it here, but I must mention two things from extensive listening that it a. lacks a bit clarity (Could that be because work is done directly on the 16 bit Wav's. Remember the notes from the Aurora writer about 32 bits ?) b. there's still the distortion in the LFE. It's difficult to describe. But it doesn't sound clean ! It looks like something is giving resonance within the sound itself. I do not quite understand myself what I'm writing now !!! LOL !!

But there definitely is potential in this method !

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Hi Andreas,

I did and ended with the channel 1 to 6 WAV's.
Downsampled (the save as in SF) to 44.100/16 and had no problem encoding them with DTS Encoder.

I'll do it again with the logfile and add it here, but I must mention two things from extensive listening that it a. lacks a bit clarity (Could that be because work is done directly on the 16 bit Wav's. Remember the notes from the Aurora writer about 32 bits ?) b. there's still the distortion in the LFE. It's difficult to describe. But it doesn't sound clean ! It looks like something is giving resonance within the sound itself. I do not quite understand myself what I'm writing now !!! LOL !!

But there definitely is potential in this method !

EoH

Here is the logfile :

Error 59: Failed to sync to payload's start position : "e:\encodeac3v0.3\ac3.mux"BeSweet v1.4 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using hip.dll v1.13 by Myers Carpenter <myers@users.sf.net>
Using AC3enc.dll v0.2 by Gerard Lantau & Dg (http://ffmpeg.org).

Logging start : 07/24/03 , 22:22:25.

e:\encodeac3v0.3\besweet.exe -core ( -input e:\encodeac3v0.3\ac3.mux -logfilea BeSweet.log -output 01.ac3 -6ch ) -ota ( -d 1800 ) -ac3enc ( -b 448 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : e:\encodeac3v0.3\ac3.mux
[00:00:00:000] | Output: 01.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:01:800] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:01:800] +------- AC3ENC ------
[00:00:01:800] | Bitrate method : CBR
[00:00:01:800] | AC3 bitrate : 448
[00:00:01:800] | Channels Mode : 2.0
[00:00:01:800] | Error Protection: Yes
[00:00:01:800] +---------------------
Error 32: No input-data was found (wrong substream?)
Quiting...
[00:00:01:800] Conversion Completed !
Logging ends : 07/24/03 , 22:22:25.

So it doesn't find the mux.ac3 as inputfile.
But it IS there and this is its content :

e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel1.wav
e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel2.wav
e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel3.wav
e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel4.wav
e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel5.wav
e:\encodeac3v0.3\channel6.wav

regards,

EoH

[KpeX]

@ EoH and kempfand: Thanks very much for the kind words, testing, and reports. :D

@ EoH:

1. About my website, I'll look into that. I use mozilla firebird so maybe I should see what happens with IE. I'm very new to handcoding HTML so I appreciate the feedback.

2. As far as the resampling, the only reason I include it in the script is an AC3 must be 48000 Hz to playback over the S/PDIF of my soundcard. If it is not necessary, yes by all means remove it from the script.

3. Editing probably should be done on 32 bit wav's ideally, but that would make things more complicated and not as easy to automate.

4. I'll look more into the LFE channel issue. What type of sound/music do you notice the effect on ?

5. Edit: Just noticed your last post. Does the same thing happen with the latest beta of BeSweet (1.5b19) ? Are the individual .wav's okay ?

[KpeX]

A little OT, but my site (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex) and ac3 guide (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/eactoac3v03.htm) should now work with IE. Mozilla/Firebird is still better though :P. So much to learn about CSS and HTML...

[kempfand]

@ EoH:
- Try using BeSweet v1.5b19. Earlier versions of BeSweet need a 7-line mux-file to work corretly (but this 'trick' is no longer needed with the latest BeSweet).

@ KpeX: Doing the editing at 32 bit is definitely the best way to go. EoH did some extensive testing, and we also found some threats in other boards about that subject (don't have the link handy, but I posted it in EoH's Ambisonics threat).

If we can improve the LFE, it would be great to keep it in mind (could do a 'manual' test-run on a couple of songs, for comparison; if we all feel the output is better, then trying to automate the editing @ 48 kHz could we worth the effort).

Kind regards,

Andreas

[KpeX]

@kempfand

I was thinking of the older mux file bug as well, but that shouldn't cause BeSweet to crash - hopefully b19 will solve EoH's problem.

I don't think this type of editing will have a audible difference at 16 or 32 bits. I will test and upload a sample. I will probably have to edit with Audacity or something similar unless you can suggest a better method for editing @ 32 bits.

I'm working on improving the LFE channel. If you could post more specifically what improvements you would like to hear, that would help greatly. Regards,

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
A little OT, but my site (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex) and ac3 guide (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/eactoac3v03.htm) should now work with IE. Mozilla/Firebird is still better though :P. So much to learn about CSS and HTML...

Yep.......works !!

(BTW Hope the moderator doesn't see this as a shameless plug : push
the button here with my homepage. It's completely made in Notepad...)

regards,

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
@kempfand

I was thinking of the older mux file bug as well, but that shouldn't cause BeSweet to crash - hopefully b19 will solve EoH's problem.

I don't think this type of editing will have a audible difference at 16 or 32 bits. I will test and upload a sample. I will probably have to edit with Audacity or something similar unless you can suggest a better method for editing @ 32 bits.

I'm working on improving the LFE channel. If you could post more specifically what improvements you would like to hear, that would help greatly. Regards,

About the editing at 32 bits : read the comments in the link Kempfand suggested. It's from the guy who wrote the Aurora tools for Cooledit.
And yes : you will hear the difference.
I did a lot of testing on this in cooledit , with and without the Aurora plugins. Of course I cannot tell if it will make a difference in your method, but it could be worth the effort !


About the LFE : as I said before : it's difficult for me to describe the distortion. I loaded the LFE in SF 6 to analyze. Perhaps the crossover at 300 Hz has anything to do with it. (I'm not technical, but perhaps lowering that to 200 Hz will improve ?)

Music I tried it on : Kempfand's PF posts and I tried a few tracks from the French group Era.....

Later today I will look for a piece of music with a clean bass in stereo and try that....

EoH

[KpeX]

@ all:

Feel free to try this version (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/encodeAC3v0.31.zip). Modified the lfe.eq file slightly to lower the cutoff frequency for the lowpass and lower the overall level. Hopefully this will improve the perceived quality of the LFE channel. In my system the LFE channel isn't affected much by having additional frequencies in the LFE, but I can see how it could produce distortions in other setups. Feel free to test and modify with your own ideas.

Hopefully this weekend I will find time to test some 32 bit encoding. At this point I doubt this editing is extensive enough to notice a difference, although I'm open to being proven wrong :D. thanks to all who test(ed).

[echooff]

Hi KpeX,

Love your routine. It is a snap to use. Being new to avs scripts I doubt I could modify your script and end up with a working copy. Do you or anyone else know a line I could add and where to place it that would automatically rename the out put file to Its orginal name and a -new? Like besweet does when you use his GUI.

[daphy]

Hey guy I tried this and it works :D

1.it makes me wonder:
the very low output is this my mistake?
Is it possible to 'normalize' those files -> the files from besplit (frontleft.wav ...) are ok but the files channel1-6.wav have less output!!

2. comparing the original wav with the ac3 I´m wondering whether the right and left (front) are changed

CYA Daphy

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
@ all:

Feel free to try this version (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/encodeAC3v0.31.zip). Modified the lfe.eq file slightly to lower the cutoff frequency for the lowpass and lower the overall level. Hopefully this will improve the perceived quality of the LFE channel. In my system the LFE channel isn't affected much by having additional frequencies in the LFE, but I can see how it could produce distortions in other setups. Feel free to test and modify with your own ideas.

Hopefully this weekend I will find time to test some 32 bit encoding. At this point I doubt this editing is extensive enough to notice a difference, although I'm open to being proven wrong :D. thanks to all who test(ed).

Did some testing this afternoon.
LFE sure sounds better now, but still not as clean as possible.
I'm not quite sure about the reason.
Anyway, I also encoded to DTS without the LFE and then the LFE sounds better. (My receiver can use a separate LFE channel or make it's own out of the 2 front streams).

I hope to do more testing this weekend with testtones at different frequencies.

regards,

EoH

[VidHack]

A quick favor, could you post some info/link to website regarding the (eq) settings? Perhaps min / max values, options, any technical info.... Thanks..

[KpeX]

@ all

Many thanks for the testing and feedback. Just to be clear, v 0.3 and up is a totally different scripting approach than before, avisynth is no longer used or required.

@ echooff

First, Thanks for the kind comments. Secondly, If you are using v 0.3 or 0.31 there is no AVS script, it's just a batch file that calls BeSweet and Sox. As far as renaming the file, you could try this:

Encode.bat "path\myfile.wav" "path\myfile - new.ac3"

Or if I have time i'll throw together a batch file that would name it like that automatically.

@ daphy

The left and right channels should not be modified. Be more clear on what sounds like has changed and your playback setup.

I haven't experience any problems with a loss of volume. It's very easy to normalize, open up the batch file with notepad, and in each of the first six BeSweet command lines, in the -shibatch ( ) section, add a '--normalize'.

@ Eye of Horus

Thanks very much for the testing and feedback, I will continue to tune the LFE channel. Your efforts are appreciated. :)

@ vidhack

The equ settings in my script were totally conceived by myself based on my ears and my system. If I have time I will post a page regarding how they were derived and why I chose them. As always, feel free to modify. If you want, download the
shibatch equalizer winamp plugin (http://shibatch.sf.net) and do some testing with it, just right click > options > preferences > plugins, and you can load/save .equ files, that might make it a little more clear.

[KpeX]

v 0.35 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.35.zip) - Changes:

1. Returns an error message if directories are set up wrong or files are not called for correctly.
2. If an outfile name is not specified, the output is "infile - DD5.1.ac3"
3. If you want to keep the temporary wave files for testing purposes, add a '-debug' at the end of the commandline.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
v 0.35 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.35.zip) - Changes:

1. Returns an error message if directories are set up wrong or files are not called for correctly.
2. If an outfile name is not specified, the output is "infile - DD5.1.ac3"
3. If you want to keep the temporary wave files for testing purposes, add a '-debug' at the end of the commandline.

a. I changed Besweet to the latest version and the problem was gone !
b. why doesn't a separate batchfile work ?

Put this in a batch...

encode 01.wav 01.ac3
encode 02.wav 02.ac3
encode 03.wav 03.ac3

Saved as start.bat.


Running this, it stops and even disappears from screen after the first file.

c. Are you familiar with the thread :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56020
(How to Properly Encode Dolby Digital Audio (AC3))

In this guide there is a recommendation to set "dialog normalization" to the same level as the average RMS level of the wavs.
Is it possible to build this into the encoding ?

regards,

EoH

[daphy]

c. Are you familiar with the thread :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56020
(How to Properly Encode Dolby Digital Audio (AC3))

In this guide there is a recommendation to set "dialog normalization" to the same level as the average RMS level of the wavs.
Is it possible to build this into the encoding ?


Good idea :)

also the idea to make a separat batch file!!!

CYA Daphy

[KpeX]

1. For batch encoding using this method, your batch file should look something like this:

START /WAIT cmd.exe /C encode.bat 01.wav 01.ac3
START /WAIT cmd.exe /C encode.bat 02.wav 02.ac3
....

Inserting paths if necessary.

2. Proper dialog normalization is not possible under the current method, because the only parameter that is specifiable in BeSweet's native ac3 encoder is the bitrate. Personally I'd rather keep it freeware than do it exactly 'right', but feel free to use the .wav's in a payware AC3 encoding program and do some dialog normalization and other techniques described in the thread EoH mentioned. hth,

[daphy]

:D
i´ve tested your new version the whole weekend and it works like charm

how about to combine the dts-comandline issue (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55590) with this project because of those audio-DTS-CD junkies like me ;)

why don´t update your homepage download link -> still only 0.3 avaible

another point - surcode dvd sometimes can´t calculate the exact track duration, only sometimes :confused:

good work :D

CYA Daphy

[KpeX]

@ daphy

Thanks for the kind words, v 0.35 is uploaded, just not linked on my site, I figured more people were following through this thread, I'll update soon.

Using dts-command line encoding should be easy, just substitute the correct BeSweet command line into the batch file.

As far as the third point - I have no idea, never used surcode. Regards,

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
:D
i´ve tested your new version the whole weekend and it works like charm

how about to combine the dts-comandline issue (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55590) with this project because of those audio-DTS-CD junkies like me ;)

why don´t update your homepage download link -> still only 0.3 avaible

another point - surcode dvd sometimes can´t calculate the exact track duration, only sometimes :confused:

good work :D

CYA Daphy

If your goal is DTS CD's, you don't need Surcode DVD, but Surcode DTS CD ! And there are no problems with that one ! Look for version 1.09 !

EoH

[daphy]

Hi folks!

Using dts-command line encoding should be easy, just substitute the correct BeSweet command line into the batch file.

I think I lost the general idea in this posting :confused: :confused: :confused:

One thing:
what´s the problem with SurcodeDVD,
Look for version 1.09 !
oh I see I have to read this posting complete one more time with more attention :rolleyes: -> lastest version of SurcodeCD is 1.020, am I right?

CYA Daphy

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
Hi folks!



I think I lost the general idea in this posting :confused: :confused: :confused:

One thing:
what´s the problem with SurcodeDVD,

oh I see I have to read this posting complete one more time with more attention :rolleyes: -> lastest version of SurcodeCD is 1.020, am I right?

CYA Daphy

PS: old Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' (remixed in 1997) sounds PERFECT in DTS after this routine :D :D :D

I'm confused too about the versions.... I have 1.09, 1.020, 1.021, 1.023 and 1.029..... but don't know if these are all DTS CD or DTS DVD...... anyway...for use with Besure/Besweet to make DTS CD's, stick to 1.09 ! No problems at all !

And for making DTS CD's with the KpeX method.......
Don't make to many yet.... there is a major improvement on it's way..... Cannot tell when exactly, but asap :-)

regards,

EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

Don't tease us :D

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
@EoH

Don't tease us :D

LOL !!!!:D :cool: :D

Nah, trying out something with the help of a good friend .....
But it's useless to announce if he doesn't get it to work !
OTOH..... I don't think it will take longer than a few days.... only wanted to prevent you all from having to redo all those nice DTS CD's :devil:

EoH

[daphy]

there is a major improvement on it's way..... Cannot tell when exactly, but asap :-)

oh I see, is that 'major improvment' that easy to use as the KpeX method (so the routine has get it´s own name now :D ) or like the
ambisonic method of Eye of Horus (which killing my nervs :( two hours of trying out and the result was 2 and a half minute noisy sound -> I´m shure it was my mistake :scared: but never again...)?

CYA Daphy

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
oh I see, is that 'major improvment' that easy to use as the KpeX method (so the routine has get it´s own name now :D ) or like the
ambisonic method of Eye of Horus (which killing my nervs :( two hours of trying out and the result was 2 and a half minute noisy sound -> I´m shure it was my mistake :scared: but never again...)?

CYA Daphy

No need to get nasty, daphy......

EoH

[daphy]

:D :D :D nasty :D :D :D

[Eye of Horus]

@ KpeX

After a lot of testing, I found out that the distortion in the bass has nothing to do with your routine (although the lowering to 200 Hz gave a better result), but with the limited ac3enc.dll !
Encoding the temporary files in a commercial encoder gives a far better result. Actually it differs like night and day !

kind regards,

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
:D :D :D nasty :D :D :D

Very funny Daphy.

But if you have any criticism on my Ambisonics guide, I would like it if you post that in the right thread or send me a personal message.
Perhaps I could even help you to get good results from that method, but to announce in an other thread how bad my method is and how difficult without any arguments, is NOT appreciated.
It's also NOT appreciated to link an improvement we are developing on KpeX's method, to your own frustrations about not being able to handle the Ambisonics method.
If it was meant to be funny, it was NOT and it's also NOT appreciated to sneer down someone's hard work.

just my 2 cents......

Eye of Horus

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
@EoH

Don't tease us :D

We're almost there......
just another few days.......

Do you think you can survive till Wednesday ? :D :D

kind regards,

EoH

[daphy]

@ Eye of Horus

I´ve sent you a PM to clear this unwanted situation

Daphy

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by daphy
@ Eye of Horus

I´ve sent you a PM to clear this unwanted situation

Daphy

OK...... I've read it and we close this subject.

(NO, not the original thread !) LOL !!!!

EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

Looking forward to Wednesday!

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
@EoH

Looking forward to Wednesday!

We suffered from extreme heath here and... we had a few things to clear out..... not everything worked as smoothly as we hoped, but..... only one day delay... !!! Thursday evening.... !!!
PROMISED !!

kind regards,

EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

Take you're time. Better to be safe than sorry ;)


SallyDog

[daphy]

comparing the original wav with the ac3 I´m wondering whether the right and left (front) are changed

I already thought this, too :(

Let´s wait for the new version :D

It´s hot hot hot here in German :scared:

CYA (sweating) Daphy

[KpeX]

@ daphy and kempfand

I had some issues when developing with the super equalizer not killing the correct channel, if it's backward for you, just switch them. i.e. rename left.eq to right.eq and vice versa. I'll test when I have time, could be that something is connected backwards on my system.

Meanwhile, after all these anticipation posts, EoH, I'm waiting to be blown away ;) ( I have nothing to do with and no idea what EoH is planning)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
The new version will be published when we checked this 'channel-switch' ... still aiming for Thursday ...

@ daphy: same heat here south of river Rhine (Basel) :D

And Thursday it is........... !!!
Working like a charm......

An example CD is uploaded to
alt.binaries.cd.image.other and
alt.binaries.sounds and
alt.binaries.sounds.dts

Give it a try.... this improved KpeX method (and yes, the left <> right problem is solved too) rockzzzzzz !!!!

@ SallyDog : Thanks for the waiting :) Hope you can do some testing and provide us with feedback !
@ DAPHY : same heat here at the end of river Rhine :D


EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

I've already downloaded the RAR and printed your guide. I will try to test tonight (10 hours from now) and give you some feedback tomorrow.

Thanks to the team for the hard work :D


SallyDog

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
OK. The big wait is over :rolleyes: :)

EoH and myself tried to improve the current method. In summary, it applies reverb ;) to all channels (except LFE).

The new method is called ExpaKpeX (derived from the words Expansion & KpeX). We did quite some listening tests to come up with a good reverb, but fell free to adjust this to your taste. Opinions & constructive feedbeck will be very welcome.

The 2 attached files fully automate conversion of multiple stereo WAV's to 5.1 AC3. The freeware AC3enc.dll is used. We also did some listening comparison to compare to commercial AC3 encoders (SoftEncode, Digigram, Scenarist's AC3Enc) and to DTS (SurCode), and we feel that the listening quality is way superior when the professional encoders are used (no discredit of ac3enc.dll, as it's free). We suggest you check it out yourself.

You can find more info on the theme, including a complete walk-through (for AC3 and DTS), in the guide, which EoH put together:

URL removed by EoH on 08-09-2003

Enough said, hope you enjoy.

Andreas



<snip>

Both batchfiles are Rarred and can be download here :
http://REMOVED

I removed the link, they are now placed online here.....
see further on in the thread......

EoH

[KpeX]

OK, guys, remember that I do appreciate your efforts.
Your method continually crashes right now, when I have time I'll figure out what's wrong with the batch file.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
OK, guys, I'm going to try as hard as I can to respect rule four here. Bear with me, and remember that I do appreciate your efforts.

1.
that's directly from your site...Wait...you took almost my exact script, added reverb, and you've expanded it to the limit? Come on, you have to admit that's more than a little bit of an exaggeration. Your method continually crashes right now, when I have time I'll figure out what's wrong with the batch file.

2. Have you read rule 6 or the audio FAQ? What are you thinking distributing Soft Encode and BeSweet with the .rar on your website? I don't think that Soft Encode was freeware last time I checked, and although BeSweet is, I'm pretty sure you need DSPGuru's permission to distribute, which I doubt you received. I never distributed anyone else's software on my site or in my zip archives, only my scripts, especially not payware programs.

I'm not sure where this thread is going lately, but this was not a good idea IMO.

Yep, to its limit, because there is not much more to add anyway, now is there ? We added reverb, we repaired the fault that was in it in the first place (left<>right) and it now works and the results sound excellent.
Crashes... ? Not once here !!! Did you read the instructions anyway ?
Did you use the script Kempfand published here ?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the script, when you follow the instructions ... ! This looks like an attempt to put us into discredit. I don't like that at all !
You say you try to respect rule 4 ? Well, the tone of your message sure doesn't show respect at all !

And if you want to discuss my website and what's on it, you can send me a PM or an email . I will not go into a discussion here, because the website is not on Doom9 and a discussion about the site has nothing to do with the thread. Discussion about how we adjusted your script, OK.
Discussion about how the results sound now ? OK !

But for the rest....this is not the place and I sure don't like or need a "public correction" from you. You can contact me privately.
If you're upset because your nickname is on the site, no problem, I can remove it in a second.......

EoH

[pacohaas]

Here is just the batch files in zip format that kempfand asked me to upload. (had to change from rar file cause the board only allows zip archives)

[daphy]

Hi folks,

I did some tests yesterday evening, only a few (remember-> the heat) but one thing that I could definintivly not confirm is that any program crashes:

@ KpeX
please check your system one more time and post your results again, I can´t imagine what could crash there if you use the paths discribted in the guide.
The only thing I noticed is that you do need much space on your hard disk, much more than I had expected -> some files couldn´t be writen complete - maybe this is the reason the encoder crashes because of rough size differences (-> the LFE is always a few bits smaller first I fear this makes trouble to surcode/SoftEncode, but it wont):rolleyes:

The sound itself is real good, transparent (L-R on the right place now :D), you get a real feeling of the room.
To judge whether it´s better than the former method I have to do more tests. For me the DTS-Part is the most interesting piece of this game. But I´ll feed my KISS Player with some ISO AC3 this afternoon.

@ pacohaas
do we need this files, I found some with the same name in the paket of EOH, I´m at work so I can´t compare those batches :confused:

@ all
work together not against each other - this will help us all ;)


CYA Daphy

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
Daphy, Batch files:
- The ones posted here call the freeware ac3enc.dll
- The ones in EoH's package prepare for DTS and SoftEncode coding

Best wishes,
Andreas

Yep and there are already major changes, because KpeX (and thus we too) obviously forgot that there are still zillions of people who work with Windows 95, 98 and ME.
And on those OS's you won't find a file called "CMD.exe".
Simple replacing by "Command.com" doesn't work !
So I had to rewrite the complete batch.....
There are now versions for Win XP and 2K (posted here)
and for 95,98,ME (which will be posted on my site and here when the guide is ready !)

Because the only thing left from the original KpeX method are the .eq files, I also removed KpeX's name from the method. Of course in the guide I still reference to his work. Without his first setup, we would probably never had heard of SOX.exe !
It's now called : the SAD5.1 method :D
Stereo to Ac3 or Dts 5.1 !

kind regards,

EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

I tried out the new method (DTS only) last night and was quite pleased. No problems at all with the batch file.

Burned a cd with the same song using the new method and your ambi method. While I still prefer the ambi method, I LOVE the speed of the new process.

Volume on the new method was not as load as using ambi, but I will tweak the batch this weekend and experiment some more.

Any timeframe on updating the scripts to 32 bit? :D

As always, thanks for the efforts you and the rest of the "team" have made.

SallyDog

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog

Any timeframe on updating the scripts to 32 bit? :D

SallyDog

ROTFL !!!!!!

Well..... before December the 31th !!

:devil: :devil: :devil:

grtz,

EoH

[sawyer]

hi guys great projetct
can somebody post a working link to the new guide as the one above does'nt seem to be working.

thanks
sawyer:(

[KpeX]

1. SAD5.1 method batch-file still doesn't work; yes, my paths are correct. If I have time I'll just add reverb to my batch file. I don't understand the need for the complexity ( 3 directories, lots of temporary files, etc. )

2. I doubt this method could be adapted for Win9x. The batch language is totally different.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
1. SAD5.1 method batch-file still doesn't work; yes, my paths are correct. If I have time I'll just add reverb to my batch file. I don't understand the need for the complexity ( 3 directories, lots of temporary files, etc. )

2. I doubt this method could be adapted for Win9x. The batch language is totally different.

@1 : you're the only one where it doesn't work till now..... strange !

@2 : that's why I completely rewrote it ! Works like a charm.....

EoH

[Dark-Cracker]

why do u made 2 step for the sox command line ?

using first : -c2 -c1 (to create a mono file)
and after : reverb xxxx

why don't u apply these 2 parameters only in 1 command this will avoid to 2 x the .wav filesize.

and what is the usefull of this line ?

-c1 -c1 for the LFE wav file ? why don't u use a rename command ? i think there is no modification of the file.

Bye.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Dark-Cracker
why do u made 2 step for the sox command line ?

using first : -c2 -c1 (to create a mono file)
and after : reverb xxxx

I can answer this one : because it just didn't work !
We tried that in all its variations, but it didn't....



why don't u apply these 2 parameters only in 1 command this will avoid to 2 x the .wav filesize.


See above.....

On the other hand...... it works. The whole batch file works.
Isn't that the only thing that counts ?
I mean : are these errors ? No ! Messy coding ? Yes !
Endresult ? > The same..... So who cares ?



and what is the usefull of this line ?

-c1 -c1 for the LFE wav file ? why don't u use a rename command ? i think there is no modification of the file.

Bye.

This one is for you Kempfand :)

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

This whole process was tested by me (after the rewriting) on a machine with Pentium III-500.
Someone with a K2-6 500 Mhz reported this error :

(both systems ran on Windows 98 !)

>BESWEET executed an invalid instruction in
>module BESWEET.EXE at 01cf:0040fbab.
>Registers:
>EAX=00000000 CS=01cf EIP=0040fbab EFLGS=00010246
>EBX=7fffffff SS=01d7 ESP=006bfb54 EBP=006bfb74
>ECX=00007ffe DS=01d7 ESI=0043e4a4 FS=186f
>EDX=00000000 ES=01d7 EDI=00007ffe GS=0000
>Bytes at CS:EIP:
>0f 4f d0 e2 f6 89 15 6c dd 43 00 8b 5d 08 3b 3d
>Stack dump:
>00000ea8 00000001 000001b3 006bfe28 006bfdc4 006bfcf9 00000000
>00007ffe 00000001 00402843 02570dec 00000000 40240000 00000000
>00000000 006bfdcc

Any ideas here ?
DSPGuru ?

EoH

[KpeX]

@ EoH

What I meant (and should have said) is that it couldn't be adapted for Win 9x without a complete rewrite. Not sure why your batch wasn't working for me, probably something I didn't set up right with the 3 directories, but I just added the same reverb settings to my latest edition. Haven't tested enough yet to decide if I like the reverb effects.

@ Kempfand, DC, EoH:

You're right about sox needing two command lines. I'm not totally sure why because I haven't found a really good sox helpfile, but the reverb and the conversion to mono definitely have to be done in seperate steps. However, the -c 1 commands aren't needed, see the streamlined command in my latest edition. Also,

@ Kempfand & EoH:

Had a thought today. What if the batch files you developed focused on using the commercial encoders and batch encoding (which you seem to prefer, correct me if I'm wrong) and I focused on the freeware/BeSweet internal Ac3Enc encoding. Just an idea, let me know your thoughts.

@ all

Here is

Here is EncodeAC3 version 0.40 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.40.zip), changelog:

- Right/left channels now are mapped correctly (thx guys)
- Reverb is an option via commandline

Thanks to EoH and Kempfand for reverb settings. Feel free to modify them or any other settings to your liking. As far as usage, not much has changed, still needs 1 working directory and the locations of BeSweet & sox to be specified. Here's a quote from the readme included:

Usage:

Configure the first three lines of the batch file to reflect the directory where you unzipped the archive (workingdir), your directory that contains sox.exe (soxdir) and the BeSweet directory (bsdir).

1. Use the .bat file from command line like this: Encode.bat "path\infile.wav" "path\outfile.ac3"
If no outfile is specified, the ac3 will be named as 'infile-DD5.1.ac3".

2. To save temporary wav files, add a -debug at the end of the command.

3. To add reverb, add a -reverb at the end of the command.

Examples:

To add reverb and keep temporary files use something like:
Encode.bat "path\infile.wav" "path\outfile.ac3" -debug -reverb
Or modify for whatever you want to do: the only thing that is required is the input file, outfile can be autonamed or specified, use -debug and -reverb in any combination after the filename(s).

hth, thanks to all who test,

KpeX

Edit: changed thread title to reflect recent developments

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by kempfand
@sewerrat: Post your logfiles :D :p ;)

I.e. Add "-logfilea BeSweet.log" to the BeSweet command line. This will create a log-file in your BeSweet directory. Example for the

START /wait besweet.exe -core ( -input %1 -logfilea BeSweet.log -output "fleft.wav" -2ch ) -ssrc ( --normalize -equ "fleft.eq" -q 1)

Andreas

Hi Kempfand,

No further attention needed.... :-)

He gave up....... I think it was a memory problem. Not a fault chip , but more the lack of !! (He had 128 MB...).

BTW I removed the link to the guide on my website, but there's still a link in one of your posts here on the forum. Can you please remove that too.....

The site now has a different name, so people clicking on the link will get a "404"........

People who belong to our "target group", know how and where to find it anyway !! :;)

(I will PM you about the 32 bits routine...... half way now .....)

EoH

[SallyDog]

@EoH

Half Way????

Cool ;)

[knarf829]

I first want to say that this is among the greatest things I've ever found on the internet! Everyone's work on this is to be commended. I'd also like to make clear that I am nowhere near the expert most of you here are - although I'd like to be. Please go easy on me.

First: To those having problems with the batch file (crashing BeSweet) - I did too at first. My problem was in the long file names (like "leftsurround," etc.) used in some places. Also in using long directory names. (Program Files, etc). After changing them down to 8.3 (DOS Style) file names it all worked fine. I'm on XP if that helps anyone.

My interest is in taking CDs and making DTS Surround CDs out of them. For that, this file is great. Personally, I've edited my copy to use 44.1 kHz the whole way, have lessened the reverb in the front 3 channels a bit, and have my copy stop after creating the 6 mono wav files so I can encode them right into a DTS wav. That's been working great for me. I have some questions though.

In SOX, rather than averaging the two channels of the stereo file to make the mono files (100% volume in 1 channel averaged with 0% volume in the other = 50% overall volume in mono) is there a way to combine the two at full volume to increase the overall volume? I've tested it manually in Cool Edit (100% L + 100% R Convert from Stereo to Mono), and it doesn't make the tracks break 0 dB (most stay under -6). I don't know if SOX can do this like CoolEdit can. Obviously, SOX is the right program for this batch so if it can't it's really a minor issue. (SOX is great! I didn't even know it was out there until I saw this).

In the interest of automation...

...is there a command line DOS / XP CD ripper that will do CUE + WAV ripping of a CD (Disc at Once)? It would be great to add that to this if so. I've been using EAC to rip to a file called "audio.wav," and have built that file into the batch so I don't have to type the command line each time. Being able to go right from ripping automatically into this script would be a big plus.

...is there a way to throw my 6 mono wavs right into SurCode via command line (built into the script) and start the encoding?

...along the same lines, is there a command line CD burner that will burn from CUE + WAV?

Ideally, I'd like to put the original CD in drive 1 and a blank CDR in drive 2, start a batch, leave, and have a completed DTS CD in drive 2 when I get back.

Again, apologies if anything I've said above makes me sound stupid or newbie-like. You have no idea how much I dig making DTS CDs this way - they sound great!

[daphy]

My interest is in taking CDs and making DTS Surround CDs out of them. For that, this file is great. Personally, I've edited my copy to use 44.1 kHz the whole way, have lessened the reverb in the front 3 channels a bit, and have my copy stop after creating the 6 mono wav files so I can encode them right into a DTS wav.

what value for reverb effect would you recomend? so I can try this, because the reverb effect sometimes sound like the drummer loses his rhythm :D


...along the same lines, is there a command line CD burner that will burn from CUE + WAV?


yes there is: cdrdao (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2171&release_id=114827) would manage CD burning of CUE files via commandline (a GUI (http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/axatis/XProject/XDuplicator/index.htm) some kind of fix (http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/axatis/XProject/XToker/index.htm) is avaible too):rolleyes:

...is there a command line DOS / XP CD ripper that will do CUE + WAV ripping of a CD (Disc at Once)? It would be great to add that to this if so. I've been using EAC to rip to a file called "audio.wav," and have built that file into the batch so I don't have to type the command line each time. Being able to go right from ripping automatically into this script would be a big plus.

I remember of a little tweak (http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/files/cdfs.zip) which offers (only Win9x) the opportunity to copy directly the WAV (not CDA) from an audioCD -> thought Gabest (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303) has witten the same tweak for WinNT-based OS (also see Project: guliverkli: Summary (http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli)).
But then you still have single WAVs (which can be mergered via cmd line using the copy command with further arguments) but no CUE :confused:

First attemp to solve this problem (http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/boards/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001795.html)
Second attemp ->but obviously problems with Win32 (http://www.windac.de/eng/pro03a.shtml)
...

(any ideas???)

...is there a way to throw my 6 mono wavs right into SurCode via command line (built into the script) and start the encoding?

This issue will surely be solved in next future look here to see the 'status'! (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55590)

CYA Daphy

PS: I did some further testings which more extrem recordings - as mentinoned the sound is REAL COOL, maybe a little fine tuning with the reverb effect is necessary to prefend to much echo effects in some recordings like accapella or where only a few intruments playing in a room with absolutely NO echo intendened

GREAT WORK

[knarf829]

DAPHY:

Thanks so much for your kind reply.

what value for reverb effect would you recomend? so I can try this, because the reverb effect sometimes sound like the drummer loses his rhythm

It's very much a personal taste, but you do need some reverb in there to create differentiation between the front and rear channels. I started with no reverb in the front, but it was too dry. I experimented and took it up to "reverb 1.0 450.0 112.5" in the front 3. It's still not quite right to my tastes, but it's closer. I've been using the drum fill into "Mean Mr. Mustard" on the Beatles Abbey Road as a test. I try to balance between the original intent of the recording versus the best surround effect. I'm still tweaking to my tastes.

Thanks for the links to cdrdao and the "dts encoding via commandline" thread. I'm going to work with these and see what I can get. Sorry - - I really should have found those on my own. In addition to not being a sound-processing expert, I guess I am also not a searching expert! :D

I'm really interested in going straight from CD ---> 6 44.1 kHz Mono Waves ----> 44.1 kHz DTS Wave without encoding to 48 kHz AC3 and then back again. I find that the more you process a sound signal, the more it degrades and the greater risk for corruption of the file. You can see it slightly in the "reverb" pass in SOX and how it changes the file size. I fear that another pass at the files will only harm them.

I can post the text of my modified batch if anyone would find that helpful. Thanks in advance to all for any advice.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by knarf829
DAPHY:

Thanks so much for your kind reply.



It's very much a personal taste, but you do need some reverb in there to create differentiation between the front and rear channels. I started with no reverb in the front, but it was too dry. I experimented and took it up to "reverb 1.0 450.0 112.5" in the front 3. It's still not quite right to my tastes, but it's closer. I've been using the drum fill into "Mean Mr. Mustard" on the Beatles Abbey Road as a test. I try to balance between the original intent of the recording versus the best surround effect. I'm still tweaking to my tastes.

Thanks for the links to cdrdao and the "dts encoding via commandline" thread. I'm going to work with these and see what I can get. Sorry - - I really should have found those on my own. In addition to not being a sound-processing expert, I guess I am also not a searching expert! :D

I'm really interested in going straight from CD ---> 6 44.1 kHz Mono Waves ----> 44.1 kHz DTS Wave without encoding to 48 kHz AC3 and then back again.



Jump in with a small correction : there is no need to encode to AC3 first. There are 2 batches written, one for 44 khz > to DTS and the other for 48 Khz > to AC3

In one of the other threads here on Doom9's forum you can read that the commandline option for making DTS from commandline is near completion.




I find that the more you process a sound signal, the more it degrades and the greater risk for corruption of the file. You can see it slightly in the "reverb" pass in SOX and how it changes the file size. I fear that another pass at the files will only harm them.

I can post the text of my modified batch if anyone would find that helpful. Thanks in advance to all for any advice.


About your reverb experiment.....try adding more walls...... :-)
We know about the corruption and degrading of the material. Main reason is that the process is directly on the 16 bit material.
We're working hard for a better method.... just watch this space.

But if we can keep that as automatic as you wish ????????????

I doubt it :(

EoH

[daphy]

Third attemp... (http://mareo.netfirms.com/) :rolleyes:

CYA Daphy

[bitsnbytes]

Very Kool Kpex, Although I'm Using surcode dvd pro you got my interest! I use you're version 40 with -debug so i take the 6 mono waves and put them in surcode.

I burnt them to dvd and my rotel RDV-1060 DVD Audio player see's .AC3 and .DTS like mp3 and man is there a differance playing straight off disk versus thru spdif.

1. cant get windvd to send straight out spdif.
2. bs player wont play .dts file
3. powerdvd works but seems muffled a bit


I have tried many diff songs most are good
but i tried Boston - Walk On album and seems they use A lot of reverb or something in that album and made it ugly.
Boston third stage album made a Gem!

I tried some golden classics like cat stevens
Walter Egan - Bob Welch - Exile - Blue Oyster Cult Godzilla Heh loved that one.

All n all A pretty sweet tool.
not bad from mp3 to dts either.

possible a batch for mp3 to 6 wav's?

ideas on equ settings I'm not sure wtf im doing in the eq plugin my sub is set to crossover @60hz
should I make an LFE eq adjustment?

Thanks again :-)

[KpeX]

@ bitsnbytes

1. Thanks for the kind words and testing, and welcome to the forum.

2. I would recommend giving Zoom Player or Media Player Classic a try for S/PDIF playback. And also AC3Filter (currently v 0.70 ) of course.

3. Remembering that you will get a higher quality transcode from a .wav source, you can use mp3 input right now. In fact, you can use any input format besweet will accept, which includes mp3, vorbis, wav, LPCM, AVIs or VOBs containing audio, MP2, or even a 2 channel AC3. You shouldn't need to even change your commandline, just make sure to use the right extension. Ain't BeSweet great :d

4. 60Hz seems like a very low crossover setting. That would mean your sub is only covering from whatever low range it can hit up to 60Hz. The commonly accepted low threshold of hearing is 20 Hz. As far as whether you should change the EQ, listen to how the LFE channel sounds, and make that decision yourself.

5. Playing music over S/PDIF in 5.1 was the reason I developed the method, I think this upmix works much better for music than does Pro Logic (at least on my amp). hth,

KpeX


Edit: On second thought, I just tried and got some weird error messages. Whether it was my mistake or not, here is v 0.41 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.41.zip), changes:

- added support for mp3 input using lame to decode. Make sure to specify the location for the lame.exe MP3 encoder/decoder in the first few lines of the batch file. Usage remains the same. You can get lame from the Doom9 download page.

[bitsnbytes]

Yeah I don't remeber the default .dll but on some .mp3's it would end up with different file lengths. Lame seems to cure the glitch ;-)

2 things

1.when I play back right channel seems weaker than left, like bass is not as strong had to play a 2ch audio to make sure my speaker wasnt blown heh.

2. I have a 20 bit cd audio disk, and wondering
what might be done to keep the 20 bit... or will it keep it if i rip it using EAC to .wav
and if EAC keeps it 20 will your batch file keep it.

I guess next will will be doing -es and -ex

thanks
:cool:

[KpeX]

@ bitandbytes

1. I doubt this is related to the batch processing, the right and left channels are processed exactly the same method.

2. Good question. Try it with -debug and find out.

[bitsnbytes]

Upon researching 20 bit audio cd's seems its 20 bit mastering and 16 bit internal.
as when i ripped it to wav they were 16 bit.

I'm befuddled over the left n right again i ripped a track and all the "action" seems to be on the left but i do hear what i dont know what to say other than a "surround effects" channel

i will try just doing left and right front alone
then right only left only

nice thing about the dts encoder u can do that.

thanks for the reply's

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
@EoH

Half Way????

Cool ;)

Forget about it !
We're almost done with our new Ambisonics method that beats the hell out of this one !

No offense intended, but as long as it can only be done in 16 bits, the endresults are dull compared to routines in 32 bit.

This weekend a complete new method is developed without any of the KpeX or related SAD5.1 methods. It is Ambisonic related and gives a sound.... boy oh boy.... :-)

I did several tests and compared every file : This method is good, but the lack of 32 bits coding is too bad for the endresult.

The original Ambi method is more than a year old, so it was time to develop something with the latest tools....
And compared to my original method this one is fast and easy !

There also a surprise involved...... !!

I keep you in suspense until the guide is complete and completely fool-proof....

hehehe :-)


EoH

[KpeX]

@bitsandbytes
Don't forget to try encoding with -debug and see if your left and right .wav files differ. Then you can determine whether the problem is coming in the AC3/DTS encoding process or before.


@EoH
We're almost done with our new Ambisonics method that beats the hell out of this one !
Doubt it. How about instead of random claims and facts, you give some real audio/technical reasons why this will be so much better.
<sarcasm>
If the payoff to the suspense of this release is anywhere near as good as your last one, I may need to purchase some adult diapers for the next week or so ;)
</sarcasm>
No harm intended, good luck, waiting to see your new method.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
@bitsandbytes
Don't forget to try encoding with -debug and see if your left and right .wav files differ. Then you can determine whether the problem is coming in the AC3/DTS encoding process or before.


@EoH

Doubt it. How about instead of random claims and facts, you give some real audio/technical reasons why this will be so much better.
<sarcasm>
If the payoff to the suspense of this release is anywhere near as good as your last one, I may need to purchase some adult diapers for the next week or so ;)
</sarcasm>
No harm intended, good luck, waiting to see your new method.

Hey , How many times do we need to repeat to you about 32 bits instead of 16 ? Obviously you're a slow learner.
Your method is not capable of doing things in 32 bits.
Take a look at this thread and follow the suggestion I added at the end, then compare the results with your method.....
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59949

FYI I did ! But because you don't believe me when I say so : try it. Listen to the endresult and then....... Let's see if you're still that self conceited !


BTW....indeed, your sarcasm is not appreciated. It's so easy to say the most ugly and nasty things about people and then say : no harm intended.
It's IMHO just cheap !

EoH

[echooff]

EoH
When do you think we might see your new method? The more the merrier, especially if it is better.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by echooff
EoH
When do you think we might see your new method? The more the merrier, especially if it is better.

I hope within a week. The method is ready, what lacks is a fool proof guide and a batchroutine. We're working on both.

You can download 4 tracks done with different methods . They were posted this weekend in alt.binaries.sounds .
The title of the post :
ATTN Kempfand : 4 tracks to test... email your preference.

Download, unrar, burn as audio to a cd and listen and compare.

Let us all know the order of your preference.

kind regards,

EoH

[KpeX]

EoH, you claim your method will "beat the hell" out of mine, and then you think I have a problem with saying unkind things? As far as 32 vs. 16 bits, I've read everything you said about it, how about something more than talk? post two identical samples encoded to AC3, I highly doubt you could ABX them. Self conceited? excuse me? (side note: don't think you can be conceited for anyone else ;)) To me, conceited is continually spamming your own method that doesn't exist yet in a non related thread.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
EoH, you claim your method will "beat the hell" out of mine, and then you think I have a problem with saying unkind things?

I believe in a former post you were already pointed at your intolerance for people whose native language is not English and now you do it again. The results of our new method sound like a canon compared to the pistol of yours. Better ? Gee.... talking about long toes.....
In one of your posts, or on your website, you said something like "everyone is welcome to improve or add to my method". Well, you sure show how welcome we are !


As far as 32 vs. 16 bits, I've read everything you said about it, how about something more than talk? post two identical samples encoded to AC3, I highly doubt you could ABX them.


Make them yourself ! I'm not here to convince you ! And I don't know what ABX means ! Again neglecting the fact that this is an international forum and that there are people from non English speaking countries.


Self conceited? excuse me? (side note: don't think you can be conceited for anyone else ;))

Again you're making jokes at the expense of someone's language.
I really advice you to stop this, as it's very immature. It's the thing certain people start doing, when they are out of arguments.

But..... to clear it up : this came from my Dutch-English dictionary. Indeed.... not a Dutch-American one !

But thanks for another cheap shot !!!


To me, conceited is continually spamming your own method that doesn't exist yet in a non related thread.

My method doesn't exsist ?????
Read my previous message. Even you can download an example. (That is : if you know how to download from newsgroups.)

Continually spamming your own method ??
Well, indeed every second message is one from me about my excellent new but not exsisting method that outperforms every other method on the market !!! (Ooooohhhh....., EoH ! Now you must say : this was sarcasm, before he feels his long toes again. This was sarcasm !)


Non related ???????

Well .... I agree.... when you change headers of the subject, there will always be mails non related !!
But OK, it's no more completely on topic, but that's also because of your selective quoting. I posted a link to another thread in the same post. Another method that almost equals yours. But that gives far better results because of the possibility to use 32 bits.
Of course you didn't say anything about that, huh ?

Now the last big question is : who was first ! You or the other guy ?Ooopsss... off topic :-)

EoH

[KpeX]

I believe in a former post you were already pointed at your intolerance for people whose native language is not English and now you do it again.
I'd like to see a link to that post. I've never had that attitude. Some of the most eloquent members on this board are non-native english speakers. Ever hear of having a little fun?

2. ABX is a blind comparison method for audio. There's software available to facilitate the method. If you're interested do a search on www.hydrogenaudio.org

3. I really want to end this flaming. You're more than welcome to improve on our stereo > surround efforts, what I don't appreciate is brash statements that aren't backed up by facts and are merely putting down one technique for another one.

Continually spamming your own method ??
Well, indeed every second message is one from me about my excellent new but not exsisting method that outperforms every other method on the market !!! (Ooooohhhh....., EoH ! Now you must say : this was sarcasm, before he feels his long toes again. This was sarcasm !)
I'm rather confused as to what you were trying to say here, but I'd rather stop this here. Try not to take everything I say as an insult, I try to have a little fun and keep things lighthearted. Unfortunately mood is not as easily demonstrated in text as it is in oral communication.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by KpeX
I'd like to see a link to that post. I've never had that attitude. Some of the most eloquent members on this board are non-native english speakers. Ever hear of having a little fun?

4th page 4th message of .....THIS thread !
I like fun..... but not at the expense of someone else or because of someone language. I also don't like jokes about racism, disabled people etc.

2. ABX is a blind comparison method for audio. There's software available to facilitate the method. If you're interested do a search on www.hydrogenaudio.org


Software to hear the difference between two equal songs, but encoded in different ways ? Well, I will have a look...... And I dare you to download the 4 testsongs from the newsgroup and do the same comparison !

3. I really want to end this flaming. You're more than welcome to improve on our stereo > surround efforts, what I don't appreciate is brash statements that aren't backed up by facts and are merely putting down one technique for another one.

I like to stop too, but...... you're the one that interpretes my message as brash statements. And not backed up by facts is again not true. There are testfiles on a newsgroup that you can download. You just tell us all which of the 4 sounds the best. Then I will tell you how we created the four and which method we used!
Beside that....... if you don't appreciate it, you start flaming ?
You could have asked for more explanation !
You could have asked about the "beats the hell" statement, instead of the immediate assumption it was insulting.

That's what we call communication !



I'm rather confused as to what you were trying to say here, but I'd rather stop this here. Try not to take everything I say as an insult, I try to have a little fun and keep things lighthearted. Unfortunately mood is not as easily demonstrated in text as it is in oral communication.

Indeed.... and that's why we have to be more careful with what we say and how we say it. You ... and... me too !
Count to ten before reacting.... it helps !!

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

Hello Kpex again thanks for the reply.

I encoded left n right only then right only.
Right alone rendered crap so i put a dvd in the standalone and played godzilla I had made and right channel was perfect. I can only deduct that its power dvd POS that is not sending the signal un adulterated. I am preparing to burn this troublesome version to dvd for a test... if this is not right i may have channels mixed up.
I have channel1 = fr left channel2 = fr right
channel3 = center channel 4 = left surround channel5 = right surround and channel6 = LFE

My thoughts on surround A touch for music is kool A lot would only be usefull in movie soundtracks. As some heavy rock jams I do not enjoy the surround. Reverb is totally outta the "musical" equasion, good for football broadcast and movie I imagine.

I will be taking my DTS dvd to my local audio nuts shop for a Highend equipment test... heh who am I foolin I just wanna show ma wares off ;-)

I look forward to hearing the ambisonic thing but I have to say that anything that didnt take off commercially I have doubts in... I mean hell even dbx went commercial... And there are alot of audiophiles to push a "superior" product.

As for this method I believe it renders A enjoyable result.

[KpeX]

Aha...perhaps here is the problem....actual channel mapping is intended to mirror the BeSweet mux file alphabetically...i.e.:

channel 1 = front left
channel 3 = front right
channel 2 = center channel
channel 4 = Surround left
channel 5 = surround right
channel 6 = lfe

I will soon update the batch so that this is more clear for those that feed the waves to a commercial encoder.

Edit:

corrected, I typed too fast ;)

[Eye of Horus]

I look forward to hearing the ambisonic thing but I have to say that anything that didnt take off commercially I have doubts in... I mean hell even dbx went commercial... And there are alot of audiophiles to push a "superior" product.

As for this method I believe it renders A enjoyable result. [/B]

Yep, after I read all those websites, a year ago, I had some doubts too. But they supply on one of the sites a very viable explanation why it didn't become a commercial success.
But I can only advice you what i say all the time... 2 things....
a. let your own ears decide !
b. change your assumption of surround.
With this I mean : surround for me means surrounded by sound. Separation and discrete channels are not surround ! That's what a commercial firm made from it !! Don't be a blind DTS or DD follower, because they say their method is surround !
I always give the old Quad as an example : a singer from the frontleft, a guitar from the frontright, drums from the rearleft and a bass and second guitar from the rearright, but........ where the heck is the band ??????
Yep , when you sit in the sweet spot, you get a good result, but when you move 4 feet to the left..... away is the surround feeling.
This doesn't happen with Ambisonics !
That's why I advice people not to compare it with Dolby or DTS, but try to listen to it without prejudice. Listen to it as a completely different and new method. Different it is ! And new...well, in some way yes, new too !
BTW did you already try it once ??? There is a guide here and you can try it there. The method we're working on now is less improvement on the soundquality than on the userfriendliness !

Also : you can download from the newsgroup the 4 songs. Listen to them and decide for yourself which you prefer !

In my case for this song, I liked one method clearly above the others :-) But.......... on other songs it can be completely different. It's not only the method , it's also the source material !

You already said it in your message !

And another BTW : read a review of Stereotomy from the Alan Parsons Project. A vinyl from 1985 which got excellent , even outstanding reviews for the soundquality ! Not talking about the content, but about the quality of the sound. It was recorded in..... Ambisonics !


kind regards,

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

Ok Kpex its not the player its channel2.wav


which from what i can see should be right front.

but when i play it back in winamp its got no balls.


maybe something mixed up or did i goof something?



AH HA!


START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\frontleft.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel1.wav"
START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\frontright.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel3.wav"
START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\centerchannel.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel2.wav"
START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\surroundleft.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel4.wav"
START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\surroundright.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel5.wav"
START /wait %soxdir%\sox.exe -V -c 2 "%workingdir%\lfe.wav" -c 1 "%workingdir%\channel6.wav"
GOTO ac3sec

Looks like 3 is right front and 2 is center


u see anything else?

[KpeX]

Channel 2 is the center channel, Channel 3 is the right front channel, going by the naming system in the batch file I uploaded. To remove any confusion (hopefully) here is version 0.42 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EncodeAC3v0.42.zip), wave files are now named with the channel included, i.e. fl=frontleft, cc=center channel, sr=surround right, ect. hth,

KpeX

[kempfand]

# KpeX: A few remarks on the previous discussion with EoH:

1) 32 bit really seems the way to go. Arguments from my point of view:
- Most prefessional tools (Steinberg for example) recommend 32 (or even 64 bit) for the intermediate steps
- Audio professionals in other forums recommend the same
- Most important (for me): Doing a 'listening' comparison shows an audible difference. I.e. the quality of using 32-bit is very audible (not just 80/20 rule) vs. 'just' doing the intermediate steps at 16 bits.

2) The 'new' method annonced by EoH indded gives superrior results for many music pieces. I state this as I am involved in the development and testing of it (realising that I might be biased). It is very true that it is just a question of putting together a 'workable' guide which is managable by most readers

3) For me, the ultimate goeal is to produce by SW what is referred to as 'HW-repurposing'. I.e. I firmly belive that in 3-5 years from now, we can do with (mostly Sharreware) what the HW-wizzards achive on Stereo.

In summary, let's keep things constructive.

^Best regards,

Andreas

[KpeX]

@ Kempfand

1. Well said.

2. I'm open to the possibilities of 32-bit editing, I just haven't put much time into attempting it because:
a. I have much less free time this part of the year, and
b. I don't upmix for archival purposes, really only for temporary listening purposes. I archive music with .mp3 using lame's alt standard or alt extreme preset, and for temporary listening purposes using all channels, I think the method is quite sufficient.

3. I look forward to trying new methods and developments.

[daphy]

@ Eye of Horus

Is the news version of the ambisonic 'thing' a 4.0 or 4.1 solution?

I got some trouble with my surroundamp (Yamaha A2 + Teufel M200/M6000): every time I use only the subwoofer for the bass it sound perfect (presupposed there was a LFE channel) if I chose both, subwoofer + main speaker I got no bass from the sub and because of this nearly no bass. (BTW. two friends of mine had the same trouble on diffrent equipment!)
-> is it possible (if necessary :rolleyes: ) to combine the ambisonic methode with the SAD5.1/KPEX - Method to get a lfe channel?
One can mix this channel afterwards to the DTS/AC3 file but this might lead to scatching sound because of to much level :(


CYA Daphy - I´m looking forward to another methode :D

PS:
@ KpeX
@ Eye of Horus

flaming leads to nothing :devil:
preserve your nerves :sly:

[SallyDog]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Also : you can download from the newsgroup the 4 songs. Listen to them and decide for yourself which you prefer !

In my case for this song, I liked one method clearly above the others :-) But.......... on other songs it can be completely different. It's not only the method , it's also the source material !

EoH

@EoH

I listened to each track and must say they pretty much sounded the same to me. I preferred #2, but maybe that was because it was louder. It also seemed to have more action coming from the center speaker. I couldn't tell any difference between #3 and #4.

Part of this is probably because my hearing is not what it used to be (too many rock concerts in the early 70's).

Anyway, are you going to give a hint of the different methods you used for each recording??

Regards,

SallyDog

[Eye of Horus]

@Sallydog....

Please use the song names. As we don't know how they decompressed in your special situation. Your track one could be mine track2 or 4, depending on the way of sorting :-)

EoH

[SallyDog]

Duh.

1. 0332ase.wav
2. 0332aseq.wav
3. 0332m2f.wav
4. 03alt.wav

Regards,

SallyDog

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by SallyDog
Duh.

1. 0332ase.wav
2. 0332aseq.wav
3. 0332m2f.wav
4. 03alt.wav

Regards,

SallyDog

I'll leave the comments to Kempfand :-) LOL !!

I don't know yet if any other dare to test it....
Didn't hear KpeX and Daphy yet.... so I will send the used encoding methods by PM....

regards,

EoH

[SallyDog]

Thanks!

[bitsnbytes]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Also : you can download from the newsgroup the 4 songs. Listen to them and decide for yourself which you prefer.
EoH



I'm sorry I dont use newsgroups or know which one they are on... but if u post links i will download and examine.

So far my fav surround tests are pink floyd Time
Billy Thorpe Children Of The Sun. And Shooting Star Last Chance, Probrably Rush 2112-Overature

Oh yeah I did that Dallas Symphony cd Yeah that was kool.


Did not enjoy Lindsey Buckingham out of the cradle in surround well it was ok but not "Dynamic" as the others.

I was looking thru ur guide seems to spread out for me to get a good comprehension of the task.
Hopefully you will refine the guide a little. Aurora plugin kept barking that it uhj w was not a valid .wav file and i couldnt get xp clipoard to show up other than empty.


:angry:

[Eye of Horus]

Ready Friday....

Just a pre-note : no more Cooledit and Aurora. ;)

kind regards,

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

@ Kpex

I'm not much of A script artist, but perhaps you could get the encode.bat to render A multiple # of tracks.

Like say i rip a cd and instead of the normal naming convention of artist track and such. I rip the cd using track 01 track 02 etc.

The script would do up to track 15 and if the tracks end at track 13 it would just end there.


My kickstart bat file is Encode.bat H:\wav2ac3\infile.wav -debug : Would something like this work
Encode.bat H:\wav2ac3\track 01.wav;track 02.wav;track 03.wav;track 04.wav;track 05.wav;track06.wav -debug

I would still like to keep temp mono waves
so maybe track 01fl.wav track 01fr.wav
but would like the temp 2ch files deleted i believe they are named like frontleft frontright etc also the originating file i would like to have deleted.

Also would like to have the seconday script where it does not go into ac3encode.dll but stops at the mono wav files. so maybe two versions, one for ac 3encode and one for just the mono waves.

I rip the cd to the dir. i press encode i get 6 wav files for each song and everything else gets deleted. I believe this is something you were looking into with EAC.

[Eye of Horus]

You could also rip a complete CD with EAC.
Save the Cue.
Process the one big file.
Process the processed file with the cue to get separate tracks...

ready...

EoH

[bitsnbytes]

heh ready :cool:

[KpeX]

@all

Here is (edit: v0.50 is buggy, see post below for new version)

-All settings are now configured in the included settings.ini file. Double click this file and set output types (output_wav, output_ac3) to true or false. Also set reverb to true or false and configure the directories as before. No more commandline options are needed other than input and output names (if auto naming is not wanted).

-Supports multiple file upmixing with the included batchenc.bat. Usage: batchenc.bat "infile.lst" where infile.lst lists all files and their paths to be upmixed, .wavs or .mp3s. If no infile is specified, all wavs and mp3s in the current directory will be upmixed.

-Output waves are named based on the input, i.e. Channel1-FL-inname.wav.

Thanks to all who use and test. Hope this quick usage overview makes sense. Feel free to ask if it doesn't ;)

[daphy]

@ Kpex

nice piece of work :)
Question:
Is it possible to feed the ini file with something like a little pre-setup-program?


@ KPEX & EOH

what do you think about programs like bat2ex, BED, DOMENU, iNpUTer (http://www.bookcase.com/library/software/msdos.util.batch.html)...?
Maybe it´s possible to improve easier handling :rolleyes:

CYA Daphy

[KpeX]

@Daphy

1. Thanks :)

Is it possible to feed the ini file with something like a little pre-setup-program?

@ KPEX & EOH

what do you think about programs like bat2ex, BED, DOMENU, iNpUTer...?
Maybe it´s possible to improve easier handling

I'm not sure I totally understand the request, daphy. How would you like to feed the ini file? How would you like the handling improved?

Edit: Looking at the link you posted, daphy, most of those programs are dated in the early and mid '90's, I highly doubt they would accomodate the windows 5.x (2000/XP) batch syntax. But I'm open to suggestions, what do you think the handling is missing?

[KpeX]

@all

Don't use version 0.50, there are several dumb syntax mistakes, fix coming soon.


Edit: v0.51 is also buggy.

Usage remains the same, thanks to all who test and use.

Edi2: Here's version 0.52 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/encodeac3v0.52.zip), hopefully got all the bugs ironed out now.

[KpeX]

Time to revive an old thread - anybody use this anymore? :D

Anyways, here's UpmiX v0.6 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.6.zip). Basically it should be more configurable and simpler to use now. Here's a quote from the readme:

Changes:
v0.6
-Rewrote a lot of the script
-Changed the name ;)
-Supports any input format besweet can decode
-Resampling is an option
-Complete besweet logging function


Credits:

Reverb ideas and settings: Eye of Horus and Kempfand
Bugfixes and Testing: Doom9 Forum

Tool to use BeSweet and Sox to process stereo audio to 5.1 Dolby Digital AC3, or 6 wavs.

Usage:

There are two batch files included with the distribution, Encode.bat is for upmixing a single file, and BatchEnc.bat for a group of files.

1. Setup: Unzip all the files in the archive to the same directory. Configure the settings.ini file each time you encode, it contains all settings needed for the upmix.

-The first two settings are clear, set output_wav and output_ac3 to true or false, depending on what kind of output is desired. Both can be true.

-Resamplefreq should be the frequency to resample to in Hz. Leave this field blank is no resampling is desired.

-Reverb should be set to true or false, to determine if a reverb will be applied to all channels except LFE.

-Preload_audio should be set to the delay in milliseconds to apply before the AC3. When synching with video remember to set this to zero.

-AC3_bitrate should be set to the desired AC3 bitrate in kb/s.

-The last two fields, soxdir and bsdir, should reflect the locations of sox.exe and besweet.exe, make sure to use paths without spaces (i.e. c:\program files\ becomes c:\progra~1\).

2. Usage: Simply call the batch from commandline after setting parameters, i.e. Encode.bat "path\infile.xxx" "path\outfile.ac3". If an outfile name is not specified it will be automatically named.

3. Batch usage: The included batchenc.bat can be used in two ways. If you simply run the batch without any parameters or by double clicking it, all .mp3 and .wav files in the current directory will be encoded to AC3. Alternatively, you can create your own list file that looks like

path\file1.mp3
path\file2.mp2
path\file3.wav
...

Save as file.lst and then encode it from commandline: BatchEnc.bat "file.lst"


Also keep in mind that ac3enc.dll of Besweet is known to produce b0rked AC3 streams, and should be used only for testing. When upmixing for any archival purposes or anything else you want to keep, please use the 5.1 wav function and encode with a commercial AC3/DTS encoder.

Enjoy the new version,

[puzio]

Hello Kpex.

Sorry for my english.
Thank You for your guide. I have one question.

On the guide there is line:

START /wait %bsdir%\besweet.exe -core ( -input %if% -output "%workingdir%\frontleft.wav" -logfilea "%workingdir%\%logfn%" -2ch ) -ssrc ( --normalize %sscom% -equ "%workingdir%\left.eq" -q 1)

If input is 32bits-float wave file the output frontleft.wav is only 16bits . So can You tell me how I must write this line to get 32bits float output. I use Besweet1523. BeSweet supports input/Output 32bits float but I don't know how.


THX

[KpeX]

Hi puzio, and welcome to the forums,

I could not find a switch either to perform the operation - -6chfloat is the only switch I can find to output 32bit wav. For the most part it shouldn't matter, however, because the heavy editing work is done within BeSweet, which uses a full floating point process. hth,

[jorel]

hello KpeX !

i don't knew UpmiX and EACtoAC3.
after read your post here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74496

i came to this thread, read a little (true,i don't read all)
then download and play the evanescence's "encodedAC3_samples" .

:eek:
very cool!!!

i have some questions and doubts, please help me..
the mp3 sample have too high volume, big presence...
nothing is wrong,i like less volume from the source, my personal taste.
i only use BeSweet with BeSweetGUI cos i'm horrible in command lines(too).
what i have to change in the command line to decrease the volume ?
or better....
don't have a "GUI" for UpmiX and for EACtoAC3 ?
future new versions ?
will be simple to use with a GUI
and give cool results...it can't stop!

thanks in advance! :)

great guide:
http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/EACtoAC3.htm
thanks for this too!

<edited>
the link to AVS2AVI CLI page in the EACtoAC3 guide is not working.

[KpeX]

Hi jorel,

Guides are outdated, the batch itself is outdated. Later tonight or tomorrow I will update UpmiX and the guides on my site, but for right now, everything on the site is pretty outdated. For now, I recommend using 0.6 as described in the readme and ignoring my outdated guides ;)

Regarding a GUI, I'm no programmer, so sorry :).

I will look into gain settings for the next version, if I can find a simple way to do it.

Thanks for your comments :)

[Tuning]

KpeX,

I have a small question.....

Can I perform the same procedure for creating 5.1 Ogg/AAC?
i.e, creating mono -> *.mux -> muxing in besweet with correct channel order.

Thanks:)

[KpeX]

Originally posted by Tuning
KpeX,

I have a small question.....

Can I perform the same procedure for creating 5.1 Ogg/AAC?
i.e, creating mono -> *.mux -> muxing in besweet with correct channel order.

Thanks:) I'll add such a feature :).

[KpeX]

Ok here is version 0.7 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.7.zip).

Added:

-Nero MP4 encoding ability ( completely untested, as I don't have Nero installed at the moment. Someone let me know if this works or not ( Tuning ;) )).

-Ogg Vorbis encoding ability has been added theortically, but it doesn't work. See here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=476495#post476495) for more information.

-Ability to add a user selected gain value (in percentage) when encoding, see the readme and settings.ini files for more information.

So summing up: gain works, nero might work, vorbis doesn't work. Have fun,

[jorel]

Originally posted by KpeX
Ok here is version 0.7 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.7.zip).
Added:
-Nero MP4 encoding ability
( completely untested, as I don't have Nero installed at the moment.
Someone let me know if this works or not ( Tuning ;) )).
-Ogg Vorbis encoding ability has been added theortically, but it doesn't work.
See here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=476495#post476495) for more information.
-Ability to add a user selected gain value (in percentage) when encoding,
see the readme and settings.ini files for more information.
So summing up: gain works, nero might work, vorbis doesn't work. Have fun,

thank you for the new version 0.7 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.7.zip). KpeX ! :)

excuse me to copy some details from the read-me...it's a "how to" include,
"Usage:

There are two batch files included with the distribution,
Encode.bat is for upmixing a single file,
and BatchEnc.bat for a group of files.

1. Setup: Unzip all the files in the archive to the same directory.
Configure the settings.ini file each time you encode,
it contains all settings needed for the upmix.

-The first four settings are clear,
set outputs to true or false, depending on what kind of output is desired.
Any combinations can be true.

-Resamplefreq should be the frequency to resample to in Hz.
Leave this field blank is no resampling is desired.

-Vorbis_quality should be set to the desired quality for vorbis VBR encoding.

-normval should be set to the desired percentage of maximum gain for the audio.

-Reverb should be set to true or false,
to determine if a reverb will be applied to all channels except LFE.

-Preload_audio should be set to the delay in milliseconds to apply before the AC3.
When synching with video remember to set this to zero.

-AC3_bitrate should be set to the desired AC3 bitrate in kb/s.

-The last two fields, soxdir and bsdir,
should reflect the locations of sox.exe and besweet.exe,
make sure to use paths without spaces
(i.e. c:\program files becomes c:\progra~1).

2. Usage: Simply call the batch from commandline after setting parameters,
i.e. Encode.bat "path\infile.xxx" "path\outfile.ac3".
If an outfile name is not specified it will be automatically named.

3. Batch usage: The included batchenc.bat can be used in two ways.
If you simply run the batch without any parameters or by double clicking it,
all .mp3 and .wav files in the current directory will be encoded to AC3.
Alternatively, you can create your own list file that looks like

path\file1.mp3
path\file2.mp2
path\file3.wav
...

Save as file.lst and then encode it from commandline: BatchEnc.bat "file.lst"

4. EAC usage: Set EAC compression options as a user defined encoder using extension
.ac3/.mp4/.ogg, and specify cmd.exe as the encoder,
with the cli options '/C "path"\encode.bat %S %D'

Be sure to use the latest BeSweet beta,
and feel free to modify and improve or post suggestions on the Doom9 forums."

;)

[Tuning]

KpeX, the last part on AAC creation is not working...
Here is the log:


BeSweet v1.5b26 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using Shibatch.dll v0.24 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).
Using bsn.dll v0.22 by DPeshev,Richard,DSPguru (http://DSPguru.Doom9.org).

Logging start : 04/18/04 , 08:51:05.

C:\Downloads\UpMix\BeSweetv1.5b26\besweet.exe -core ( -input C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\ac3.mux -output absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4 -logfilea C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\EncodeAC3.log -6ch ) -ota ( -d 0 ) -bsn( -6chnew -config )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\ac3.mux
[00:00:00:000] | Output: absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:42:710] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:18:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 04/18/04 , 08:51:23.

The file that should be generated is "absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4", which is not found in Upmix folder or BeSweet folder.

Btw, Besweet acts like doing some encoding and stops without any output file. :(

Has any one tried ? :o

[KpeX]

C:\Downloads\UpMix\BeSweetv1.5b26\besweet.exe -core ( -input C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\ac3.mux -output absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4 -logfilea C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\EncodeAC3.log -6ch ) -ota ( -d 0 ) -bsn( -6chnew -config ) I was worried this wouldn't work, it may be the case that BeSweet doesn't support encoding of a .mux file to BSN. Tuning, if you could try the same command but omitting the '-6ch' switch from the core section and see if there is any change, that would be appreciated.

[Tuning]

BeSweet v1.5b26 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using Shibatch.dll v0.24 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).
Using bsn.dll v0.22 by DPeshev,Richard,DSPguru (http://DSPguru.Doom9.org).

Logging start : 04/18/04 , 09:11:33.

C:\Downloads\UpMix\BeSweetv1.5b26\besweet.exe -core ( -input C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\ac3.mux -output absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4 -logfilea C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\EncodeAC3.log ) -ota ( -d 0 ) -bsn( -6chnew -config )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : C:\Downloads\UpMix\UpmiXv0.7\ac3.mux
[00:00:00:000] | Output: absoloutly everybody-AAC5.1.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:42:710] Conversion Completed !
[00:00:18:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 04/18/04 , 09:11:51.

Again the same, acts like encoding..but quits without an output file.

[KpeX]

Originally posted by Tuning


Again the same, acts like encoding..but quits without an output file. Thanks Tuning :). It appears that mux > MP4 does not work for now, so the only working output is 5.1 AC3. I will look into alternatives when time allows.

[gircobain]

Any clue on why the eq files are leading to differently sized channel wav's?

[Tuning]

Originally posted by gircobain
Any clue on why the eq files are leading to differently sized channel wav's?
I found a while ago that if the input file has some problems ( for example corrupt), it can cause messed up behaviour after each step.

May be this is your case too try on different files.

To me all files had same size.

[trooper11]

i just cant get mine to work either. i am ripping from a cd to a wav file then inputting it to convert to ac3, but all i get are quick besweet pop ups and then they close, then sox.exe stays open for a bit then closes, no sign of encoding and no output. i dont know what could be wrong with the source, the wav plays fine on its own, but in the log it keeps saying besweet cant open tempaudio.wav files .could there be a problem with besweet?

[KpeX]

trooper11: I would appreciate a sample of such a file. I await your PM.

[trooper11]

pm sent

[gircobain]

Originally posted by Tuning
I found a while ago that if the input file has some problems ( for example corrupt), it can cause messed up behaviour after each step.

May be this is your case too try on different files.

To me all files had same size.
Actually I found out that the reverb effect added by sox is what is causing different sizes. Oh well, guess I might just give up on adding reverb.

[jorel]

Originally posted by gircobain
Actually I found out that the reverb effect added by sox is what is causing different sizes. Oh well, guess I might just give up on adding reverb.

"seems logical" but not means that is right for this case.
when put reverber in any sound, the size will encrease
cos the time to show that audio encrease too!

is that type of problem that you got?

[KpeX]

Originally posted by gircobain
Actually I found out that the reverb effect added by sox is what is causing different sizes. Oh well, guess I might just give up on adding reverb. Thank you for this report. I will look into this when time allows, I have not tested reverb effects much lately.

[KpeX]

Here's version 0.71 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.71.zip). Mainly a bugfix release.

Changes:
Fixed my lame mistake that would have caused incorrect channel mapping on some systems with non-alphabetic default listings. Although this is rare and you probably shouldn't be concerned about old encodings, channel mapping will now be correct on all systems.

Enjoy,

[jorel]

Originally posted by KpeX
Here's version 0.71 (http://www.freewebs.com/kpex/UpmiXv0.71.zip). Mainly a bugfix release.

Changes:
Fixed my lame mistake that would have caused incorrect channel mapping on some systems with non-alphabetic default listings. Although this is rare and you probably shouldn't be concerned about old encodings, channel mapping will now be correct on all systems.

Enjoy,

enjoy ?
oh yes,this i will do...i only did tests cos my hds are full!
believe me, i came in this thread 5 times per day to see all details,
who and why post,news,etc...
everything cos like i told you, the results are amazing !
i'm cleaning my system, i need big space,
i have lots to do with UpMix .

thank you for the new version!
:)

[Eye of Horus]

The original method as Kpex posted a while ago, finally has it's follow-up. And...... improved quality !
Kempfand and me developed the same method as a Bidule to use in Plogue's excellent Bidule software !
The tool uses only freeware .
It works in 32 bits (which is already a big improvement for the soundquality and we did some adjustments)

For more information, see the thread :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60137

The new bidule is on the last page of the thread.......

kind regards

Eye of Horus

[Tuning]

EoH, Can a GUI be made to automate your procedure....:)

Kpex's method can be GUI'sed and is easy because there is only two command line tools.

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Tuning
EoH, Can a GUI be made to automate your procedure....:)

Kpex's method can be GUI'sed and is easy because there is only two command line tools.

A gui for a bidule ???

yeah, right :D


EoH

[Tuning]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
A gui for a bidule ???

yeah, right :D


EoH

Sorry I haven't tested your method, It is difficult for my poor brain to undersatnd.
Sorry If I made some mistake by asking a GUI. :o

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by Tuning
Sorry I haven't tested your method, It is difficult for my poor brain to undersatnd.
Sorry If I made some mistake by asking a GUI. :o

Hi,

I forgot to mention that the SAD bidule is on the last page of the thread.........

EoH

[jorel]

Originally posted by Tuning
Sorry I haven't tested your method, It is difficult for my poor brain to undersatnd.
:o

for me is worse, my english is horrible too. gircobain did a great new UpMixGUI here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75445

;)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by jorel
for me is worse, my english is horrible too. gircobain did a great new UpMixGUI here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75445

;)

Don't let language problems keep you from the best results !!!
(I'm not English or American too !!)

EoH

[jorel]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Don't let language problems keep you from the best results !!!
(I'm not English or American too !!)

EoH

thanks for support my friend but like i posted for you months ago,i really need a guide for "stups", for me is hard to follow but i can "feel" that the results are amazing! i have your guide saved in hd but for more than i read i'm still confused. in next future you will build a "simple guide for stups"? :o can i have hope? :p

[daphy]

I uploaded this GUI to http://needfulthings.webhop.org

Just to save you traffic ;)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by jorel
thanks for support my friend but like i posted for you months ago,i really need a guide for "stups", for me is hard to follow but i can "feel" that the results are amazing! i have your guide saved in hd but for more than i read i'm still confused. in next future you will build a "simple guide for stups"? :o can i have hope? :p

Yes you can ! It will be published tomorrow. I will publish the address here.......

kind regards,

EoH

[jorel]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Yes you can ! It will be published tomorrow. I will publish the address here.......

kind regards,

EoH

great!
(thousands) thank you very much EoH !
i trust that your new guide will help me and lots of people around the world with poor english like mine! :)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by jorel
great!
(thousands) thank you very much EoH !
i trust that your new guide will help me and lots of people around the world with poor english like mine! :)

I hope this one works better for you ;)

http://www.dtsac3forum.digitalzones.com/SAD51Bidule.htm

Good luck and let me know !!

(BTW Friday is the last day before I take a break till the 25th : Vacation !!)

EoH

[trooper11]

ok horus i have a question. when you say 32bit, are you saying our source should be in 32bit wav files? I was using dbpoweramp to rip 16bit wav files form my cds, what should i use to get 32bit? Also, is there a way to set up a batch file for multiple tracks? I saw the besweet batch, but i mean for the bidule part. Thanks.

[jorel]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
I hope this one works better for you ;)

http://www.dtsac3forum.digitalzones.com/SAD51Bidule.htm

Good luck and let me know !!

(BTW Friday is the last day before I take a break till the 25th : Vacation !!)

EoH

thank you,thank you EoH!
:)

i save the guide and i'm downloading the needed files now. the pictures are very clear and is easy to follow.
...i was trying to send a pm but got this message:
This user's mailbox is currently full, and cannot be sent any messages until it is cleaned out.
please,send a pm to me,i'm thinking in post your guide in more forums,i need details for that!
thanks in advance!
:)

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by trooper11
ok horus i have a question. when you say 32bit, are you saying our source should be in 32bit wav files? I was using dbpoweramp to rip 16bit wav files form my cds, what should i use to get 32bit? Also, is there a way to set up a batch file for multiple tracks? I saw the besweet batch, but i mean for the bidule part. Thanks.

Use Soundforge or Cooledit to convert your 16 bits WAV to 32 bits floating....

All experts (I am no expert, only a guy who writes guides and has some ideas, which the experts convert into code for me ;) ) say : use 32 bits.

And you will definitely hear a difference !!!
(don't forget to complete the whole process in 32 bits. Surcode will take them without any problem), but you cannot use WMP for listening in 32 bits ! When you want to listen to for example one of the 6 mono files in 32 bits, you need to load them into Soundforge or Cooledit.

Off for a vacation !!

bye,

EoH

[Eye of Horus]

Originally posted by jorel
thank you,thank you EoH!
:)

i save the guide and i'm downloading the needed files now. the pictures are very clear and is easy to follow.
...i was trying to send a pm but got this message:
This user's mailbox is currently full, and cannot be sent any messages until it is cleaned out.
please,send a pm to me,i'm thinking in post your guide in more forums,i need details for that!
thanks in advance!
:)

No problem ! Post them where you want !!
Want to translate them ? Go ahead !!

I am off now for a vacation .....

TTYL in 2,5 weeks !

kind regards,

EoH

[trooper11]

thanks alot for your help. are there any apps that will rip 32bit wav files from cd tracks?

[KpeX]

Originally posted by trooper11
thanks alot for your help. are there any apps that will rip 32bit wav files from cd tracks? CD-audio is 16 bit, so the only sane reason to convert to 32 bit is to help quality when doing some form of audio editing, such as 5.1 conversion. Therefore cd audio cannot be 'ripped' to 32-bit unless it was converted on the fly, which would be no different from normal ripping and converting using audacity/cool edit/any other wav editor.

[trooper11]

oh ok i see lol, never knew that. so the upmixing to 32bit doesnt degridate quality? usually you want to keep the conversion as low as possible, but maybe this is a differnt thing. ill definitely start doing it that way though. thanks

[jorel]

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
No problem ! Post them where you want !!
Want to translate them ? Go ahead !!

I am off now for a vacation .....

TTYL in 2,5 weeks !

kind regards,

EoH

thank you very much EOH!
was posted here first and i will translate to portuguese(Brasil) cos lots of friends here want to learn and use your guide! ;)

http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79427#79427

[daphy]

UpMixGUI reissued on needfulthings (http://needfulthings.webhop.org) ;)

[ZiGGi]

Is this tool outdated?

If not, could someone reupload?

[nautilus7]

I believe it is. what you like to do?

[ZiGGi]

Upmix a 2 ch audio to 5.1.

[nautilus7]

As tebasuna51 (he's an expert :) ) sugests here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134017) you can use behappy.

[ZiGGi]

Can I do the audio separate from the video?

[tebasuna51]

As tebasuna51 (he's an expert :) ) sugests here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134017) you can use behappy.

I'm not a expert in upmix, the scripts are from NorthPole (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=787656#post787656), and the real expert in this forum is ursamtl with:
Sticky: GUIDE LIST: Stereo-to-Surround Conversion Guides (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83752) and his VI VST plugin (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=105684).

But yes, with BeHappy, the Bass libraries, Sox filter and Aften encoder you can convert directly a Track01.cda to a Track01.ac3 5.1

[tebasuna51]

Can I do the audio separate from the video?

Crosspost.

I was thinking in CDA audio.

With movie audio you can try open the full movie with AviSynth-BeHappy DirectShow method, but not always work.
Always better demux the audio and, of course, you need remux the multichannel audio output with the video.

[nautilus7]

I'm not a expert in upmixMaybe not an expert in upmix, but you know a lot about audio. :p

[Nightshiver]

Can someone please re-upload this? None of the links work.

[tebasuna51]

Can someone please re-upload this? None of the links work.

Try here (http://dhost.info/needfulthings/download.php?category=tools&id=47&url=1) in this needfulthings page (http://dhost.info/needfulthings/tools/item.php?id=47)

[sebus]

Some info that could go to readme is available here (http://xvcd.intercom-services.de/ac3.htm#Upmixgui)

But UpMixGUI 0.12 Release Date 06-05-2004 simply does not work (or I can not get it to work correctly), as it deletes EVERY file it just processed in its temp folder. So in the end one ends up with nothing to be processed by ie SoftEncode

sebus

EDIT:
One needs to use ONLY sox12174 (current version 14xx has a very different syntax)
But even then it fails on last LFE.wav processing & it needs to be done by hand (if anybody needs the instructions PM me)

In the end it produces a very artificial sound (especially if there is a dialogue)