CCE and PULLDOWN

[GParent]

After following the excellent Telecine and Interlacing Guide, I determined that my DVD was really FILM and scored 99.6% on a DVD2AVI run.

I used DVD2AVI to create a project that used FORCED FILM option. It created a Progressive Scan output with 23.976 FPS. I followed the CCE Guide and set Progressive Scan, Zigzag, et al. I did this using a 10 minute sample of the DVD.

When I play the M2V output of CCE, using WMP, it looks great. Much better than not setting FORCED FILM on.

My problem is fathoming PULLDOWN:

(1) If I did a standard Pulldown:

PULLDOWN MOVIE_IN.M2V MOVIE_OUT.M2V

The MOVIE_OUT.M2V is interlaced, 29.97 FPS, Zigzag on, etc. DVD Maestro accepts and creates a VOB that is interlaced. Apparently, Pulldown defaults to interlaced.

(2) I changed this to the following:

PULLDOWN MOVIE_IN.M2V MOVIE_OUT.M2V -PROG_SEQ P

Now I get a Progressive M2V out and it shows up properly under Bitrate viewer and Maestro likes it, authors a test VOB, and PowerDVD plays it fine. Its the correct speed, cadence, et al.

Except..........

When I run the VOB through DVD2AVI to see just what it is I authored, to my surprise, it previews sped up, at +/- 60 FPS.

Bottom line, what is DVD2AVI discovering with the fast VOB stream?

What is the recommended parameters for backing up Forced Film conversions that are being authored for DVD?


NOTE: I am already aware of the need for two Pulldowns when using Subtitles. One needing -drop_frame True. But lets keep this simple. No subtitles, just chapters and audio being added to the Post-Pulldown M2V file.



REFERENCE PURPOSES - PULLDOWN PARAMETERS:

-nopulldown : pulldown will not insert the necessary flags for 2:3 pulldown
-framerate [23.976, 25, 29.97] (defaults to 29.97) : changes framerate
-norff : strips out all RFF flags
-tff [odd, even] : changes the field order
-notimecodes : does not recalculate timecodes for the new framerate (timecodes are recalculated by default)
-prog_seq [p, i] : marks the entire MPEG stream as progressive or interlaced (by default, PULLDOWN creates an interlaced sequence)
-prog_frames [p, i] : marks each frame as progressive or interalced (by default, PULLDOWN marks all frames with an RFF as interlaced)
-drop_frame [true, false] : Set drop_frame_flag for NTSC streams
-aspect_ratio [1:1, 4:3, 16:9, 2.21:1] : Change aspect ratio

[slk001]

First, your video is not being "interlaced" but telecined - big difference.
Second, you probably shouldn't be using PROG_SEQ P. You SHOULD be using PROG_FRAMES P. Also, if you have subtitles, you should set DROP_FRAME T.

Just remember that PULLDOWN only changes FLAGS to the video stream, so VIDEO_IN size = VIDEO_OUT size.

[GParent]

Hi<

I found the following Guide that precipitated my question:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/maestro2.htm

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Next, you will need to perform a “pulldown” on the resulting video file. I found it easiest just to drop the “pulldown.exe” file into my “Windows” directory since there is already a system path to it. This way, you can access the command from any directory prompt. You will need to create two files. I will explain later why. First, use the following command line:

Pulldown project.mpv output.m2v –prog_frames p

then use this one…

Pulldown project.mpv output-drop.m2v –prog_frames p –drop_frame true

You will now have a “output.m2v” file and a “output-drop.m2v” file that can be imported into Maestro.

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I'm getting mixed messages. My gut feel is to have Pulldown mark the frames as Progressive, specified in the above examples. Yet, the documentation that comes with the Pulldown package seems to indicate that taking defaults renders the M2V as Interlaced and it offers the following command line as the way to go.

Example usage for a 23.976fps source:

pulldown source.m2v target.m2v -drop_frame true

QUESTION:

Do I add "–prog_frames p", or not?

[digitalman]

I have never had any issues using pulldown in.m2v out.m2v on non-interlaced video. It may mark it as interlaced, but it does not look interlaced or cause any playback problems on my stand alone DVD player. I think using the defaults in pulldown may only affect the file if you go to try and reencode the pulled down m2v. The encoder probably will detect it as interlaced and cause problems from there.

[GParent]

Digitalman, you hit it on the head. I wanted to have a final product that would be recognized as Progressive, which is what the content really is.

INPUT M2V TO PULLDOWN:

Num. of picture read: 25
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 23.98
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive
Scene change detection: NOT FOUND
Variable GOP pattern: NOT FOUND


OUTPUT OF PULLDOWN - DEAFULT IS INTERLACED:

Num. of picture read: 31
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Interlaced


OUTPUT OF PULLDOWN ADDED OPTION "-PROG_FRAME P":

Num. of picture read: 31
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive


NOTE: For openers, Progressive and Zizag seem to go together. If all else were equal, I would opt for adding the -PROG_FRAME P option to the Pulldown on Film sourced video.

Thanks for you feedback.