Big 3 video pulses

[Zot]

Hi,

I'm encoding Sleepy Hollow at 60% of original size. I extracted a short clip with DVDShrink 2.3 with no compression so that I could try different encoding/compression modes with the various tools available.

I notice a shimmering effect when there is a lot of complex detail that is static. For example, in a scene in the forest with leaves on the ground, the leaves seem to shimmer or pulse. If I advance frame by frame, the frames alternate sharp focus/slightly blurred/sharp focus/slightly blurred etc...
I checked the original and the problem isn't there.

I've tried various combos of Avisynth and CCE (2.08 with CCE 2.50; 2.52 with CCE 2.66. Same story. I've never noticed this on movies I used to backup with DVD2SVCD/CCE.

Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.

thanks,

Zot

Using:
DoIFFU 1.1.6/1.1.5 (tried both)
Avisynth 2.08/2.5 (tried both)
CCE 2.50.01.00/2.66.01.07(tried both)
Reauthorist 1.0
DoCCE 1.0.1.5
EClECC 1.5c
Win2K, SP3
Dual Athlon MP1800
Apex 1500

; Cinema Craft Encoder SP -- Encoder Control List

[item]
title=VTS__01_P01.16~9_1
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
aud_out=0
vid_file0=d:\short\CCE.20\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.mpv
vid_file1=d:\short\CCE.20\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.mpv
vaf_file=d:\short\CCE.20\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.vaf
aud_file=d:\short\CCE.20\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.mpa
file_focused=0
encode_mode=0
packet_size=2048
timecode=0x0
width=720
height=480
vmode=2
frame_rate_idx=1
cbr_brate=3947
opv_q_factor=40
vbr_bias=30
opv_brate_min=0
opv_brate_max=8776
vbr_brate_avg=3947
vbr_brate_min=0
vbr_brate_max=8776
vbr_pass=4
quality_prec=16
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
seq_endcode=1
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
fast_mode=0
progressive=1
alternate_scan=0
non_linear=1
top_first=1
lum_level=1
intra_dc_prec=2
aspect_ratio=3
gop_m=3
gop_nm=4
gop_hdr=12
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=1
fix_gop_length=0
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=0
samples_per_sec=44100
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1

[file]
name=d:\short\CCE.20\VTS01\VTS__01_P01.16~9_1.AVS
type=0
frame_first=31872
frame_last=31872
encode_first=0
encode_last=31872
chapter=2427:
chapter=13682:
chapter=17510:
chapter=27411:

[BinaryBin]

LOL, man, I just posted about the exact same problem a few days ago, and still no luck as to why this happens. Read what I posted here

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55915

I'm about to do some more testing, and I think the only thing it might be is that Top Field First thing. I see in your file you have it set to 1, so you also had it on, Can you test with it OFF? or 0, uncheck Top Field First. Thats what I was going to do to test out my video.

[BinaryBin]

Well, I just finished re-encoding my video with Top Field First unchecked, and burned to dvdr, and its the exact same thing :(

Would like to know your results. Why does it do this! :( i know its on other peoples encodes also, i guess thats just what happens when its re-encoded, static things seem to pulse. really annoying, and just overall bad :/

anybody else?

[Zot]

Well - I tried this out on 3 DVD players - APex 1500, Mintek 1600 and Sony 725P. Only the Apex displays the problem. The other two are as smooth as silk. Must be something the other 2 correct for or the Apex introduces. I'm going to try a few more things - like do a DVD2SVCD on the same clip. Should not make a difference if encoding is the problem, but I'll let you know.

Zot

[BinaryBin]

Did you try with Top Field First off? just a thought, and thats a good test, to see if the same clip with dvd2svcd does it. I don't remember any svcds doing this, so let me know your results.

[BinaryBin]

oh to let you know, the 2 standalones i've tested in are, the Apex AD-5131 and the Playstation 2.

Maybe this has to do with the conversion down to 23fps cuz its film? or maybe the encode method, robshot, or the IQP setting, Quality? which is set to its default that it uses, 15. What does the Bias setting affect? when i was fast fowarding through those scenes, (at like 1x, its not all super fast) those scenes look PERFECT, its still, not pulsing like it is if just played. these are long scenes i'm looking at, so plenty of time to look at it fastfoward. anyways.

[BinaryBin]

any clues yet? what have you found out so far? Also, why do we have to convert down to 23fps? is that needed? just wondering why its done, and can't be keeped the same fps. I don't know if that is the cause, was just one of my thoughts on a possiblity.

[BinaryBin]

Well, I took back my Apex, and got a new Panasonic DVD-F85, and dvds don't shimmer, or pulse. So it must be something with old players, As the PS2 also does it, i guess the Old Players can't handle it correctly, (only main difference i can see is that the new encoded video is 23fps instead of 29).