Capture Software

[Spakker]

Hi All,

Just a couple of quick questions please..........

My system - nForce2 mobo, 512mb DDR400 ram, 120gb NTFS HD (Serail ATA150), Radeon 9500 Pro, Philips Sonic Edge 5.1 and Win XP Home Edition + updates.
My TV Card - Hauppage Win TV FM (BT878 I think)

I've got some classic VHS films i'd like to archive, cant afford all the dvd's :o(

My preferred choice is DivX avi and 2nd choice would be PAL vcd (if no frame drops occur).

1a) Has anyone tried DrDivX for vid capping, if so, is it any good?

1b) Can I capture to DivX 5.05 + mp3

2) Is Intervideo WinDvr the best for mpeg1 capture?

3) I've read that NTFS partitions dont have any file size limit, true?


Thanks for reading, if you have advice for me or recommendations i'd be grateful.

Thanks,

Spk.

[FredThompson]

You've probably read NTFs doesn't have a 2G file limit. Of course there's a limit. How big is your drive?

Compress after you capture unless you're using DV or MJPEG for capture. DivX is a poor choice for capture. You don't want to use a codec that uses multiple frames for CPU-based capture..

[Spakker]

Thanks Fred,

I'll try what you suggest. My CPU is an Athlon 2400+, wouldnt that be fast enough for capping with DivX? I'll test a few things today, just need to connect my vcr up.


Thanks again,

Spk.

[FredThompson]

Maybe it will work. MPEG encoding is CPU-intensive. Why take a chance?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I agree........

If you are able to and have a large enough hard drive, I would capture at no less than DV.avi spec (which is around 225MB per min).

Then compress/encode to a codec of choice afterwards.

[BaronVlad]

:eek:

Please no caps directly to Divx and mp3. If your machine is fast enough you can capture to XVid (please scroll down to avihs post http://virtualdub.everwicked.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=35&)

But here BEST, yes BEST solution should be capture to Huffyuv and doing some postprocessing afterwards. Please refer to the links in my sig.

[Spakker]

Many thanks for the replies. In the past when I had an ATI AIW Pro (1999-2000) I was limited to using an ATI codec with uncompressed audio.
The results were quite good, no dropped frames using the ATI VCR program.

I was assuming that these days with more powerful hardware and software, DivX capping would be achievable, so I will look into Huffyuv and maybe even buy Intervideos Windvr.

What I really wanted to do was capture my Star Wars Trilogy to vcd (doesnt everyone!) and thought that capping to DivX and then running the avi's through TMpegEnc would be the way to go.

I am a little concerned about the a/v sync issues associated with WinDvr and also about the file sizes of Huffyuv avi's.

But I shall give it a go.

Thanks very much,

Spk.

[Swan]

2) Is Intervideo WinDvr the best for mpeg1 capture?
If you're thinking about capturing directly in VCD-compliant format (Mpeg-1, 352 x 288/240), then WinDVR is OK (don't use it for capturing in Mpeg-2 over 288 or 240 lines of vertical resolution as it deinterlaces the video it captures) but be prepared that the picture quality will be awful if you put it on a VCD and play on your TV via the standalone DVD player.

The result of "VCD-capturing" are files that are only suitable for viewing on a computer monitor (and not full screen), in my view.
As the guys have suggested, for the highest quality it is best to go for HuffYuv and full resolution (720 x 576 for PAL, 720 x 480 for NTSC), but Mjpeg works too. It adds compression, but at high quality settings the compression is barely noticeable and the file sizes are near those of DV (12-13 GB per hour). I tested PicVideo's Mjpeg codec at quality setting 19 and it put very little strain on the CPU (I have a slower CPU than you). The picture quality was excellent and the files were easy to edit and re-encode to Mpeg-2 (SVCD/DVD) or Xvid.

My problem with HuffYUv/Mjpeg capturing was not dropped frames, but terrible audio/video sync (but that's a different story). :)

I am a little concerned about the a/v sync issues associated with WinDvr and also about the file sizes of Huffyuv avi's.
What have you heard about audio/video sync and WinDVR? I've never had any problems with the sync when capturing in Mpeg-format. Is this something that's popped up with the very latest version of WinDVR? I have not tested that one.

[FredThompson]

Swan,

I never had problems with sync using HuffYUV. It's a video compressor, not audio so the problems must ahve come from something else.

Spakker, the ATI cards didn't limit your use of other software. You probably didn't know how other ways to capture.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally posted by Spakker

What I really wanted to do was capture my Star Wars Trilogy to vcd (doesnt everyone!)


Yep, I had a go at doing just that some months ago.

I have the entire collection on PAL LaserDisc. I used the DV video camera 'pass thru' method to generate a dv.avi A/V stream from my LaserDisc player to my PC.

I ended up with 3 - 4 no. massive dv.avi A/V streams (each side of each LaserDisc had to be captured separately). Which were converted to an Mpeg2 video and audio stream.

The end results are pretty good but I think I could do better.

One of the great things about LaserDisc, other than it's superior video quality over VHS, is that each disc is divided into chapters, just like DVD. So with a little more effort I could make a DVD with full chapter search..... just like the Director/Producer intended.

It's great fun but takes a long time to do!

[dar1us]

Nice to see another brit on here... Making it feel more homely...

Why not capture and convert to SVCD, Ghostbusters - capped last nite off Sky Movies 3 (premiere 3) worked quite well. It is encoding now to SVCD. The quality is much better than VCD any tuesday of the week!

Sorry for off topic intrusion... but... Spakker, that isn't a very PC nick huh?:)


harrison

[dar1us]

Hold on Vlad... Wait up with the dont capture XVID/DivX thing...

still a few thoughts...

for all the guys who definitely want to capture directly to DivX/Xvid:

- yes it is possible – but only if:
1. max. resolution is set to 384x288,
2. Capture only in the 1-Pass mode and
3. GMC and Bidirectional Encoding are switched off.

I capture at 768x576 with XVID, nerrier (right word?![never]) a frame dropped. I cap with all settings off, 6 motion, MPEG quant and I frames max/min=1... If you have a fast machine, but not much space to spare, it is a cheats way of getting decent quality... The quality cannot match Huff. It blurs out details, but with the release of trbarry's 'AddGrain' filter, it looks just as good.

I capture movies, not big or that intense ones, or old ones to XVID (like ghostbusters last night) and Tommorow Never Dies, also last night to Huff. Saying that, I capped both these at 480x576, no frames dropped. Ghost busters is 105 mins long and is about 8 gigs. Tommorow Never dies is 2:15 (commercials not removed yet) and is 34 gig, but the quality is better, but after SVCDing, you wont tell the difference...

My only issue at the moment, is capturing something I have on DVD so I can see what difference>corrections in colour I must make to make it look right. There is a problem with the saturation I think. Usually leaving the settings alone does best, it is hard to tell looking at one only on the moniter because everyone is different. TOmmorown never dies was the pioneer of colour fixing for me (recently) with saturation knocked from 64>53 out of 128.

Hope this has been insightful.


harrison

[Swan]

Originally posted by FredThompson
I never had problems with sync using HuffYUV. It's a video compressor, not audio so the problems must ahve come from something else.
Yes of course it was something else.
The compresson does not lead to bad sync. But the format, the container, may lead to bad sync.
It is more likely that you'll get bad sync when capturing in avi format with HuffYuv compression then when capturing in Mpeg-2 (in a well-written app and with a fast enough cpu, etc)
I am sorry if I was sloppy in how I expressed myself.
Let me explain what I mean.

Most people here (except those with ADVC's or those who capture through their DV cams using passthrough) have a "capture card".
That type of card generally does not have its own audio line-in, so people are capturing the video via the capture card and audio through the audio card. That is what leads to the bad a/v sync I experienced (and many others too, otherwise there would be no need for an application like VirtualDubSync).

Not having the incoming audio and video clocks synchronized often leads to a/v not being in sync. Off sync is a common problem when capturing the video through one card and the audio through another and the signals are not locked on to each other in any way.
Why I mentioned it in the same sentenced as HuffYuv is that when capturing video using a regular capture card (no synchronized clocks) in avi format with any type of compression (HuffYuv, Xvid or Mjpeg), the *avi format* does not have any mechanism to keep the sync.
In Mpeg, there are ways to keep the sync.
That's why capturing in Mpeg-2 never gave me any sync problems.
So yes, the format matters too. With a "regular" capture card, you are more likely to get bad sync if you capture in avi format (regardless of compression) than if you capture in Mpeg-2.

[Spakker]

Thanks again for the replies, after reading them, I understand what I need to do a lot better.

I'll try WinDvr first and then Huffyuv, so i'll keep you posted.

My nick name? I never thought of it as being PC, its just an old nickname from my school days!
Its NOT to be interpreted as offensive.

Thanks again to everyone,

Take Care,

Spk.

[Mouse]

I have tested a LOT of different capture softwares for my capture card (Leadtek winfast 280 TDH MyVIVO), and have come to the conclusion that VirtualDubVCR is THE_BEST software to use.

Resons :

* It can capture video at 720x576, with absolut 0 frames lost (longest i have tested is a 3hour movie).
I prefear 480x576 though. Which is good for SVCD use.

* Audio is allways in perfect sync. This i find fail on most other capture programs i have tested eg. Virtualdub (unmodified one), WinDVR, Winfast.PVR etc etc. With perfect Audio-sync, you loose a lot of struggle, with spending hours to try correct it.

* CPU-friendly, well atleast here. I never see it go over 20%. Pending from 12-20%, which i find excellent.

As codec, im using Picvideo MJPEG from Pegasus, set at Quality 19. Audio is set to NO compression (44.100khz, 16bit Stereo).

When this is done, im using latest DVD2SVCD (set in AVI-mode), to make my SVCD's. I'm amazed how nice this works, and it makes perfect copies each time. Extremly good videoquality + audio in perfect synd.

Last important thing. I suggest you guys, not playing QuakeIII while capturing video :p , close ALL apps eg ICQ, POPUP-Stoppers, or any other proggies in Autostart. That way you get a slight bigger chance of getting a good captured video.

I'm using, Win2k with SP3, P4 2.4Ghz, 512MB RAM, 120gb Seagate disk, Leadtek winfast 280 TDH MyVIVO 128MB.

[mrlipring]

I've been capturing at 720*576 with iuVCR, to ~8mbit divx5, getting it to combine fields, and uncompressed pcm audio.

this works out to around 1MB/sec, and it's as good as any lossless codec i've played with, and the file sizes are obviously a lot better.

i've got a gainward 650xp geforce4 ti4200 btw, and the capture on it's fantastic. I'm WELL impressed.

my cpu usage (athlon @ 2127mhz, 11.5*185) sits at about 80%, no dropped frames.

[BaronVlad]

:)

Hi dar1us,

the sentences you quoted out of the FAQ are rather old and should be edited some time. But I always give a link like the one above for XVid caps.

But personally I dont like "direct" caps since the postprocessing is very hard, if not impossible (cutting out commercials...) and therefor I like the sentences...:D

Please let us know your results with the Capture XVid -> DVD thing in comparison to Huffy.

BTW: If you like to you can rewrite the "direct capture" part for the FAQ with your known pros and cons as you are using it and I dont, so you have far more knowledge about it than I do.

Thanks

[dar1us]

capping to XVID is NO differnet when post processing to whatever... all frames are i-frames, so it is seek perfect.

it is the same, but about one fourth of the size, the quality is slightly less, but after recompression (especially to SVCD), it is UNNOTICABLE, probably after compression to <2mb, it is technically the same.

side note: Nush! is really missing Cameron from BB, ahh:( - not that i'd been watching it [only recently]


harrison

[Owen]

Untill recently I was capturing to Xvid at fixed Quant of 2 but found that there were still some compression artifacts.
I have now moved to DIVX 5.05 at 8Mbits all other features off.
I force keyframes every second if I want to edit.
Quality is very good and comression is about 30:1.
You whould be hard pressed to pic the copy from the original.
Works much better than Xvid at any setting.
Only thing is that DIVX has a rate control bug with interlaced video. So you must deinterlace during capture. Either in DIVX or with external filter.You get times when the picture goes to a blocky mess if you dont deinterlace. So be warned
I you have not tied this don't knock it.

Regards,

Owen

[dvd_maniac]

iF YOUR INTENTION IS TO WATCH THE STAR WARS TRILOGY OR WHATEVER, TRY WWW.KVCD.NET
i FIT OVER 2 HOURS ONTO ONE CD-R OR 9 HOURS ONTO 1 DVD-R. The results are much better then vcd quality. The only catch is a small learning curve and whether your standalone will play them.
Anyways, it works great for me.

[SeeMoreDigital]

dvd_maniac

Originally posted by dvd_maniac
I FIT OVER 2 HOURS ONTO ONE CD-R OR 9 HOURS ONTO 1 DVD-R. The results are much better then vcd quality.
Anyways, it works great for me.

If you are using this application, I would like to know more about the 2 hours onto one CD-R. I read the stuff on the KVCD website and thought it was just hype.

Could you perhaps post me some 2 hour encodes, so I can see for myself?

[kwag]

Could you perhaps post me some 2 hour encodes, so I can see for myself?

Maybe I can help you see a little light :)
Here you go:

www.kvcd.net/704x480-showoff.mpg
www.kvcd.net/small-adaptive-sampler.mpg
www.kvcd.net/red-planed-action-704x480.mpg
www.kvcd.net/red-planet-704x480.mpg
www.kvcd.net/red-planet-extreme-704x480.mpg

That's the way the complete encoded movies look like on a single CD-R.
And the current motion adaptive script is even better, so our current results are even better than that ;)

-kwag

[FredThompson]

What about compression times? Can any of this be used with CCE?

I looked at your Star Wars 2 sample the other day. To my eye it looked like you are heavily smoothing non-motion areas but, since I don't have a copy of the movie and the scenario is heavily CG, may be way off.

What causes the hardware player imcompatabilites? Are you "breaking" the DVD spec somehow?

[SeeMoreDigital]

kwag

This should have it's own thread...........

I have to admit I am very impressed with the website samples.

When you think they are low bitrate, 704 x 480, Mpeg1 they really are very good indeed.

I've been telling my clients for years (well since DVD Mpeg2 was launched) that there's plenty of milage left in Mpeg1. This confirms it!

An with some of the new hardware DVD players being able to spin RAW Mpeg1 and 2 files (no need for .dat and .vob containers) this is great news.

I realize that PAL, with it's 20% extra vertical resolution, will effect change to some of the claims on the KVCD.net web site. But what the hell!

I would still like to get my hands on a longer Mpeg1 test CD-R though!

Anybody out there able to mail me a CD-R?

Thanks

[kwag]

I would still like to get my hands on a longer Mpeg1 test CD-R though!

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2464 ;)

-kwag

[kwag]

Originally posted by FredThompson
[B]What about compression times? Can any of this be used with CCE? Sure!, just patch CCE with KVCD's Q. Matrix.

I looked at your Star Wars 2 sample the other day. To my eye it looked like you are heavily smoothing non-motion areas
That's a very VERY old sample. Things are not like that anymore :)

-kwag

[FredThompson]

OK, I'm convinced. I make demo CDs for the machinery I (try to) sell. MPEG-2 and 4 are nice but are useless in an office environment because the only safe assumption is minimal codecs. That means MPEG-1 or some of the early Microsoft codecs. The safest bet is MPEG-1. It appears your customizations will allow smaller files, dgbob rates and/or smaller bandwidth. All of those are important for business presentations. Odds are my competitors don't hang out here so they can spend $$$$ trying to match the quality. Woohoo!!!

[SeeMoreDigital]

You said it Fred,

Being able to get more Mpeg1 data, at this quality, on cheep media like CD-R, is going to be great for some of my clients showreels.

Much of what I encode is for exhibitions so if I can convince my clients to purchase cheep DVD players that can spin RAW Mpeg 1 (or 2) it's going to make my job a whole lot easier.

And you are also right about the minimal codec issue. Many of my clients don't have Mpeg2 capable PC's with DVD drives.

[kwag]

If you want your clients to laugh at you, but then you get the last (and best!) laugh, take them your presentation on a small ~210MB CD-Rs. They'll never know that you can fit over 30 minutes (KVCDx3 528x480) in one of those little frisbees, and they'll think your presentation is only 5 minutes long. Until you hit play, and time goes on, and on, and on, and then you laugh :!: :D

-kwag

[FredThompson]

Funny you should mention that. It's a heck of a lot easier to carry those small discs safely than the full-sized ones. We're finally starting to see them in stores with appropriate cases. The only downside is the label is smaller.

I've just posted a number of questions in your general forum. This is all VERY interesting.

[SeeMoreDigital]

kwag,

Thanks again. I followed the the link you provided, burned the file using Nero and created a CD-R with 6No 10 second test files. All with different pixel frame sizes.

I am going to have to learn a bit more about CD burning. As I was not aware that you could create VCD's at larger than the standard pixel frame size of 352w x 240h/288h. I was very supprised that my 3 year old Philips DVD player could spin them. Although it did struggle on #5 (the 702w x 480h test file).

Even so the no denying that the quality is there. I wonder how much data you could squeeze on one of those little 'credit card' CD-R's.............. now that would be a laugh!

[kwag]

Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Even so the no denying that the quality is there. I wonder how much data you could squeeze on one of those little 'credit card' CD-R's.............. now that would be a laugh!
If 352x240(288) is good for you, specially to save TV episodes (Stargate SG-1, Etc.), then you can easily put a complete ~45 minute episode (after removing commercials) on one of those CDs with great VCD(+) quality ;)
Just set you bitrates to 300Kbps MIN, 1,800Kbps MAX, and use KVCDs Q. Matrix and encode in CQ mode.
Make sure you use file size prediction, either manually or with ToK.

-kwag