DV stream has nasty camcorder copy inhibit... how do i get rid of this?

[Mug Funky]

hi party people! i'm a long time lurker of doom9 and the forums, and this is my debut appearance as a poster. i hope you enjoy it :P

here's the problem: i have just made a 10 minute movie for a Uni project, which i rendered out with the Pinnacle DV codec. no configuration options i could see from virtualdub.

what i want to do is dump all this onto a DV tape for easy transport, so i don't have to burn 4 CDs whenever i want to use it somewhere else. however, when i lined it up in premiere, and hit record on the camera, the screen (camera screen) suddenly went blacked out and helpfully displayed the words "copy inhibit". the tape stopped dead too.

i'm using a Sony DCR-TRV17E PAL camcorder, premiere 6, avisynth 2.02(not that it should matter) for the handy TomsMoComp (thankyou Tom, if you're out there. most oft used avisynth plug i have), and virtualdub.

when i export any un-recompressed captures (whether quicktime or avi, captured at home or at uni) they work. it's just the stuff i modified and had to recompress.

okay, this is getting seriously wordy... but i'll press on.

i'm thinking it's a problem that would go away if a simple flag or switch whatsit were turned from "copy protect" to "not copy protected", but i have seen nothing about that mentions it.

if anyone has had the same problem, or better still some kind of solution that doesn't involve actual recompression of the huge file, i'd love to hear from you.

thanks.

[oddyseus]

Pal digital camcorders r shipped with a disabled dv-in. U may enable the port back through a computer program and a special cable that u can find on the web.

It looks like this is the case for u and not any copy protection scheme.

[Mug Funky]

yeah, i'd read about that (and i'll look into a program that disables it), but my problem is a little different, in that it's only files i've recompressed which do this - files edited with premiere and saved without recompression work fine.

type 1 and type 2 DV files work fine, unless i've recompressed with the pinnacle codec (which is the one i'm partial to using because it doesn't annoyingly change the luminance values for screen display (this screws up DV footage if it's shot with super-white, which mine is)

i'll see what i can find that would change the camera input stuff, but i'm not convinced this is the problem.

by the way, thanks for the reply :)

[matzed]

Hi Mug Funky,

The SMPTE 314M Standard, defining data structure for DV-based video, specifies that on each frame, there is a flag concerning the ability to copy or not.

Maybe the pinnacle dv codec is putting this flag on (or off, depends). Premiere is certainly fully compliant with all DV standards, so maybe it is checking this flag before copying the DV movie back to the tape...

Maybe you could try :

1- To export to the tape using Scenalyzer Live, which is certainly less boring with such things than Premiere

2- Let me have a very small part of such a "protected" movie on a site where i can download it. I made a tool that can analyse quickly a DV file in its structure (i'll post those tools when i'll have time to finish it, mid-july i hope).

Matz

[cweb]

Originally posted by oddyseus
Pal digital camcorders r shipped with a disabled dv-in.


I believe that some are shipped like that, but not all. Samsung has a Pal digital camcorder with enabled dv-in for instance.

[oddyseus]

In fact due to higher customs most of the low prized digital cameras have the dv-in disabled, at least for Europe.

[matzed]

Originally posted by oddyseus
In fact due to higher customs most of the low prized digital cameras have the dv-in disabled, at least for Europe.

But it's quite simple to find info about how to enable it...

His probleme is not that, it's the way the DV avi file is generated by the Codec.

Mug Funky, where are you ? :confused:

[oddyseus]

yes I noticed that. Anyway I suggested it that it might be a dv-in disabled problem before he elaborated on the codec specifics.

[Mug Funky]

OOPS! sorry, guys, thought this thread had died... at least i couldn't find it one time. no matter.

yeah, i'll definitely give scenalyser a try if i can get a hold of it.

i thought it was a flag in the frame header dooby things. funny of pinnacle to turn them on by default. surely they'd realise that if there's anything there to encode, it's obvious the user has already made a copy of their video, and therefore there's no use copy protecting it after the fact.

now it's the camera itself that is receiving these copy protect flags, so presumably if anything puts the stream straight out to tape there will always be that problem. so i may just need something that actually removes the flags (or at least sets them to zero). Matzed, i'm looking in your direction :p

sorry for the late post. i'll try to upload a sample, but i'm on a 56k dialup, so i hope you'll understand if i can't get one up soonish.

thanks all.

[matzed]

No problem, Mug Funky. When you'll be ready, sned a message in this post, it will notify me via email...

I'll make you know when my tool will be ready.

Matz

[Mug Funky]

here's a sample.

unfortunately, the only webspace i could find at short notice was an old geocities site i hadn't used for years... so you'll have to download it left click stile from this page

http://www.geocities.com/skirtday/

thanks dude. i eagerly look forward to this little tool of yours. i can't get enough little avi tools.

oh, and by the way, scenalyzerLive seems to work. the old scenalyzer would be good if it outputted to DV (i wouldn't have to BUY anything).

but i'd like to be able to remove these flags on general principle. if i could reverse-engineer stuff, i'd have dug open the pinnacle codec itself and screwed with it there, but i don't think that's legal. a DV stream based solution seems good.

[matzed]

Mug Funky,

The flag for ability to copy or not has 4 possible values : 1 means "Copy free", the 3 others means "Reserved".

In my DV files, this flag is set to "Copy free", ans i confirm that on yours, it is not :).

The strange thing is that i tried to export it to tape via Premiere, and it is not saying me the "copy inhibit".... Maybe beacause it's too small (5 frames).

Anyway, i changed the flag on your file to "Copy free".

Where can i send it to you ? I don't have any site. The file is quite small (700 ko), it should be ok if i send it to you via email ? If you are ok, send me your email adress.

Matz

[Mug Funky]

you can mail me at "adrian" at "tpointd.com" (i hope spammers don't prowl this forum, that's why it's all rephrased :O )

it would be cool if you could send the tool you used to change the flags... or i could spend some time in notepad looking for differences...

hmm.

the copy inhibit thing appeared on the camcorder screen on my camera. it's possible it's a camera model specific thing (sony tend to be pretty formal about copyright and stuff). yours might say something different, or nothing at all.

you could loop it a bunch of times so there's substantial length to it, then try export it to tape. from what you say about DV structure, it should have the same effect.

another note, my camera says the same thing with certain Macrovision encoded VHS tapes... but not all. strange. it was able to record from "Apocalypse Now", but it couldn't do "Hellraiser 2"

oh well... good luck on your video tools. and thanks to everyone who has helped (Scenalyzer was a lifesaver :))

[matzed]

I sent the file. Try it and let me know.

I can't give you the tool now, it's not finished yet. I'll release a "light" version soon, including things about copy protection for you. Give me about 10 days.

Don't spend time on notepad. Even if you know how to read a AVI RIFF file, the info is not in only one place, the DV structure gave me headache and "white night" as we say in France (maybe not only in France)...


Matz

PS : i am a spammer and i will sell your email adress :devil: :D

[Mug Funky]

thanks. haven't tried the file yet...

white night, huh? haven't heard that one, actually. just trying to figure out what it means. ("White Knight" might possibly be what your DV tool will be... but i suspect these are totally different things.)

SPAM!! I KILL YOU! hahaha. thanks for the help, dude

[matzed]

Don't expect too much concerning my tool... It won't do a lot at the beginning. It would do more if i could get some IEC spec at lower price ! One IEC spec is aroung 150 $ :mad: even for personal use... And i need a least 2 or 3...

White night : in french, "nuit blanche", it means that you didn't sleep during this night...



;)

[Mug Funky]

i guess you'd already have stuff like this, but this link here might help you...

http://libdv.sourceforge.net/

hmm. interesting expression, white night. i may consider learning French one of these days.

"i hope you learn how to speak French, 'cause i was saying crazy bullshit about you, one second ago" - beastie boys

[matzed]

Yep i know LibDV and i've already tried to read the code inside it, but :

1- I don't know C a lot (i'm using VB)
2- The code is not really documented :(

Tell me, is the file i sent to you working now ?

Matz

[Mug Funky]

oops... i had to give that camera back to it's owner, so i couldn't check.

gimme a couple of days to get this thing going at uni and try there. but i'm not sure if Final Cut Pro has the same difficulties...

oh well. it's cool you're doing this.

[matzed]

Originally posted by Mug Funky
oops... i had to give that camera back to it's owner, so i couldn't check.

gimme a couple of days to get this thing going at uni and try there. but i'm not sure if Final Cut Pro has the same difficulties...

oh well. it's cool you're doing this.

Any news ?