dvd2one beats CCE once in a while

[ulfschack]

Yes according to my findings this is true at least for the R2 Count of Monte Cristo.

These where the settings.

All were main movie + 1 lang.
Orig - 5.7 GB (quite noisy in fact ... bad transfer)
dvd20ne - 4.38 GB
DVDshrink - 3.98 GB
CCE - 4.21 GB (5-pass VBR with 3Dconvulution w/ light noise preset)

I chose four different stills from very different parts of the film and compared: Orig, DVDshrink, DVD2one and CCE (2.50) for a total of 16 pictures. The pictures I chose varied between action, slow, sunlit and murky for a good overall of different condidtions.

I ranked them 1-3 points for subjective quality for each picture., Then I summed it all up in the following ranking.

1st dvd2one (allthough a close call to the second runner up)
2nd CCE
3rd DVDshrink
(I didnt rank the orig)

Then I passed the pix to a friend (no newbie either), but with changed names masking the origin of the stills. He reached the same conclusion except for that he had the orig at first place for all four. He also rated the difference between dvd2one and CCE as being bigger than I found it to be.

According to Mb1 IC does quite a lot better than dvd2one. So the question arises if CCE encodes really are worth the trouble if you own IC.

cheers

[mrbass]

What is 3Dconvulution w/ light noise preset) ?

[thop]

rule #1 of comparisons: you need an absolutely clean source.

[MackemX]

each to their own :D

[ulfschack]

@Mrbass, sorry that should be Convolution3D. If that still doesn't ring a bell it's a very competent avisynth filter that does both temporal and spatial cleaning in on go (hence the "extra dimension"). Since there are a lot of parameters to take into consideration the author of the filter has made some presets. The one I chose is called "movieHQ" used for good DVD sources and is an alias for Convolution3D (0, 3, 4, 3, 4, 2.8, 0), nothing heavy.

@thop. That remark doesnt do anyone any good. Are you just gonna NOT back-up less-than-optimal movies? Wouldn't you like to know how different encoders/requantifiers fare for all sorts of movies? Or would you just like follow your #1 rule and then assume it applies to all sources? .... hmmmm


@MackemX. I don't know what that means ... seriously :)

cheers

[mrbass]

let me translate MackemX's comment which I agree with 100%. To each their own....basically use what works for you. More power to ya.

[waldok]

I thought days of "CCE/DVD2ONE who's good/who's bad" were over?
OK, now we have one more comparison. Great.
So let's say DVD2ONE performs better on Count of Monte Cristo. Cool.

But why adding 3Dconvolution filter to CCE output (why would you need that in the first place ?) when you don't add any filter to DVD2one output ? Are you sure your filter doesn't degrade CCE generated pictures ?
5pass vbr shouldn't be beaten by a simple DVD2one transcoding according to me (regarding the operations involved in both processes).

Now as the beautiful Kylie sings "It's in your eyes...", and as long as you are pleased with the results, we are all happy ;)

Waldok:cool:

[bezerk]

It's not in your eyes, blah, blah, blah.

CCE is by far the best software encoder (yes, it's dogmatic truth!), IC7 would be very good if it wasn't for the undersizing bug.
3Dconvolution filter ??!!! sorry, but why in the world would anybody do that if source is DVD, even not so good one.
If somebody disagrees I'll be glad to show him CCE and DVD2one or any other one click solution copy projected to 3m diagonal.
And how you got output of 4.21GB after 5pass CCE is beyond me, I usualy get in the near of 4.699.000.000 B, couple of 1000.000 B bellow at most after 8 pass, and 5 pass is almost as precise.
If you don't know how to use the tool it doesn't mean the tool is broken, how about this one instead of in your eyes. :devil:

[MackemX]

Originally posted by bezerk
It's not in your eyes, blah, blah, blah.

CCE is by far the best software encoder (yes, it's dogmatic truth!), IC7 would be very good if it wasn't for the undersizing bug.
3Dconvolution filter ??!!! sorry, but why in the world would anybody do that if source is DVD, even not so good one.
If somebody disagrees I'll be glad to show him CCE and DVD2one or any other one click solution copy projected to 3m diagonal.
And how you got output of 4.21GB after 5pass CCE is beyond me, I usualy get in the near of 4.699.000.000 B, couple of 1000.000 B bellow at most after 8 pass, and 5 pass is almost as precise.
If you don't know how to use the tool it doesn't mean the tool is broken, how about this one instead of in your eyes. :devil: oh but it is in your eyes. How is people can argue over quality when standing side by side looking at the same image on the same viewing setup?

exactly, you do get such disagreements and differences of opinion and that's why you get discussions like this

now these differences of opinion can be greatly exaggerated again by the means on which the image is viewed as again this has an effect on the final image viewed by the user

a lot of people think the transcoders give good results and maybe they do in their eyes but this is more likely because their setup is holding back on the full potential of the original so the quality loss difference seems to be smaller

I just don't know why it is people seem to feel so strongly about DVD2One's quality but, as you suggested to do, people who are shown the images on a half decent setup will on the huge majority of occasions agree that the order is CCE-IC-DVD2One etc and if they can't see it but it is then pointed out they also agree. Of course there are some examples where it's very close but in the majority of cases this is the order they fall in (in my eyes:D)

I can say suggest this 'setup quality difference' phenomenon cos I have a few setups myself as well as using quite a few other top/bottom end setups and I've always tried backups from CCE, IC, DVD2One etc and each setup normally gives different quality difference results regarding the original and the backup

I guess these types of DVD9-DVD5 quality discussions will probably always surface unless dual layer burners or blue ray become mainstream or any other method where you can get complete 'true' 1:1 backups

personally i feel the thread title of 'dvd2one beats CCE once in a while' should really be 'dvd2one comes close to CCE once in a while', but that's my opinion and not everyone wil agree

p.s. I like your quote about broken tools cos IC is one that suffers through this cos quite a few people think it's broken :)

p.p.s. 8 pass? :eek:. A 2 pass normally got me near enough, a rarity 3 pass was the most I ever used but again each has their own preferences

[waldok]

Bezerk, you are one war late.
Pointless comparisons have been discussed over and over.
Now you won't have to convince me CCE is better since I've been using it for months.
But what's the point ? there is no "dogmatic truth" here and you are welcome to let everyone here use what pleases them most. Who would fool enough to care about what it would look like on a 3m diagonal screen when he's only got 55cm TV set ?

MackemX we discussed all this when you were MisterX, do you remember ?I probably was as "aggressive" as bezerk at the time, but now I don't see the point anymore.

And I repeat : it's in your eyes, no matter if it sounds blah blah blah to some.

Waldok:cool:

[mpucoder]

Hmmm, I wonder where this thread is headed...
Those of you familiar with biology, especially the formation of the sensory system, know it's amazing that 2 humans can perceive with any similarity at all. And that's just the mapping of the optic nerver to the visual cortex. Add to that spherical abberations of the cornea, impurities in the vitreous humor ...

Anyway, thread closed due to flames erupting.