dv to dvd

[hammer]

I have trawled the forums of dv and dvd authoring not found my answers one thing i think seems clear is i should use cce .i have sp a plug in for adobe.

I am new to dv i have a Sony trv25e and want to practice on a 12 min clip i have on camera.I have so far while playing
around used movie maker (Was hoping to start simple)and captured it to an avi file. I have imported it into adobe premiere6 and then using save to web imported timeline and converted to mpeg 1 which used cleener 5 ez i have so far of this clip a movie maker project,
avi file I, adobe project file, premiere movie file mpeg1. The premiere mpeg1 looks awfull when viewed in media player.
I have adobe premiere 6 ulead media studio pro 6.5 TMPGEnc plus 2.5 cinema craft encoder sp.
I want to produce to dvd. So either some overall advice and the right guide would be much apreciated.

[bb]

You need to use your Premiere CCE plugin to create MPEG-2, not MPEG-1, for DVD. Choose appropriate DVD settings, and save to MPEG-2 from Premiere. Although I'd prefer to save to DV AVI, then convert to MPEG-2 using a standalone encoder. Make sure you set the field order correctly (DV is bottom field first). Do not use MovieMaker in between - you don't need it if you have Premiere.

bb

[hammer]

thanks for reply i realised mpeg 1 was for vcd.I was just going for a test run when saving the file cleener ez does not do mpeg 2.
two questions
is using a stand alone encoder avi to mpeg2 cinema craft encoder (not plugin version) or TMPGEnc plus 2.5 a far better option.on ascale of 1 to ten how much better are the results than encoding in premiere.
i understand cce is the dogs najers.

[bb]

I never used the CCE Premiere plugin, but I guess that the quality will be comparable to the standalone version (but not the encoding speed).
I prefer the standalone encoding, because I can improve the video by filtering through AviSynth (I use Convolution3D often). TMPGEnc has some nice features (and filters), too.

bb

[Xesdeeni]

If you are not filtering, and you do anything more than cuts (fades, titles, etc.), it's actually better to use the CC plugin. This is because the uncompressed data will be sent to the plugin, instead of the frames being recompressed through the DV codec.

Xesdeeni

[oddyseus]

In my system CCE plugin is slightly slower than standalone so there is no speed disadvantage. The quality however is the same.

One thing to notice though. U MUST check the Top Field first in CCE's video tab, (second from the top) in order to correctly encode dv footage. Otherwise u'll get a jumpy playback due to wrong field ordering.

[max2k]

Originally posted by oddyseus
...
One thing to notice though. U MUST check the Top Field first in CCE's video tab, (second from the top) in order to correctly encode dv footage. Otherwise u'll get a jumpy playback due to wrong field ordering.

Good point - I spent quite a weekend figuring that problem.
the other alternative that I've got from expert Members ( Thanks Swan! ) is to use "ReStream" - this fixes the field order flags on already encoded footage.
This way if you ever forget to set the CCE field order, you can always fix it quick ( going thru 1 more complete encode is so boring !).

Hope this helps !

[bb]

It's not the same thing whether you use CCE's "Upper field first" option or ReStream to fix the field dominance flag. CCE shifts the video by one line, which results in a spatial field change. ReStream (or pulldown.exe) merely change the field dominance flag, which has a temporal effect only and does not include a line shift. You should use ReStream or pulldown.exe to set the field order for DV files correctly, not CCE's option.

bb

[oddyseus]

Thanks bb, that's why I wasn't content when I reversed the field using Restream in a wrongly encoded dv footage and the results were not as good as they ought to be.

Great inside tip.

[bb]

To be more precise about CCE encoding:

- If your DV source is progressive:
-- leave the "Upper field first" flag to the default (= on).
-- In the Quality settings, set "Intra block DC precision" to 9 for DVD encoding, 8 for SVCD.
-- Set the "Block scanning order" to "Zigzag".
-- Check the "Progressive frame flag".

- If your DV source is interlaced:
-- leave the "Upper field first" flag to the default (= on), and use ReStream to change the field order (= uncheck "top field first" in ReStream).
-- In the Quality settings, set "Intra block DC precision" to 9 for DVD encoding, 8 for SVCD.
-- Set the "Block scanning order" to "Alternate".
-- Uncheck the "Progressive frame flag".

By the way: I don't use CCE's filters, neither "Low pass filter" nor "Effect restricted filter" nor "Dithered quantization". Instead I prefer AviSynth with Convolution3D to get decent results.

bb

[hammer]

spent all wekend testing got nowhere.last night till 2am.
started from scratch in premiere
movie 720x576(1067)
00.12.54.24 25.00fps
48000hz-16bit-stereo
timeline video 1a & audio1
from premiere used manual for cce 2.66 ended up with
mpeg video/audio stream 8565kb (quicktime ass)
file 200,713 kb
vaf1750 kb
if i try to open in windows media player audio only how do i move on from here
help much appreciated

[bb]

Originally posted by hammer
mpeg video/audio stream 8565kb (quicktime ass)
quicktime ass? :confused: Don't know what you mean...
file 200,713 kb
Which file?
if i try to open in windows media player audio only
You need to play your MPEG-2 file in a software DVD player like PowerDVD or WinDVD. Or you need e.g. the Elecard filter installed (this way you'll be able to play the MPEG-2 in WMP, but for best results I still recommend a software DVD player).

bb

[RB]

Originally posted by bb
- If your DV source is interlaced:
-- leave the "Upper field first" flag to the default (= on), and use ReStream to change the field order (= uncheck "top field first" in ReStream).
[/B]
Sorry, this is wrong. You can either always leave "Upper Field First" in CCE unchecked and later correct the TFF flag if necessary but not both. See also the CCE FAQ (sig). When you check "Upper Field First" in CCE it shifts the video one line up. This is the right thing for bff interlaced video because CCE always sets the TopFieldFirst flag in the MPV and modifying the TFF flag with ReStream will result in jumpy playback. Enabling "Upper Field First" for tff interlaced stuff is wrong and this can't be corrected by simply clearing the TFF flag in ReStream because the line shift is a spatial change which can't be corrected by modifying the temporal field order.

[midiguy]

so RB, what your suggesting is, that for interlaced DV footage (in CCE), use bottom fields first and then throw the file in ReStream (or pulldown.exe) and change it to upper fields first?

[oddyseus]

Sorry rb for answering this for u, but its so clear.

For bff material as DV footage, set the Upper field first flag and u r OK. No need for any correcting action.

[hammer]

thanks for reply sorry for confusion
quicktime associated
file in properties is does not tell me what type of file.

i went through the whole process again.
I may have set it wrong.
this time i have ended up with
mpa 24,218kb
mpg 566,460kb
vaf file4881 kb
bin 1 file 1kb
I have tried to play mpeg file nothing happens audio fine

After running through cce I am not sure what to do next to get written to dvd.

[RB]

oddyseus is right. I was just pointing out that you can't leave Upper Field First checked all the time and then always clear the TFF flag in ReStream. Either the one or the other.

[troy]

Ive heard that it is better to leave the upperfield box unchecked and do the restream or pulldown thing to correct. I am not an expert but I remember reading somewhere that this will give better results than just checking upperfield first box.

[bb]

Originally posted by troy
Ive heard that it is better to leave the upperfield box unchecked and do the restream or pulldown thing to correct. I am not an expert but I remember reading somewhere that this will give better results than just checking upperfield first box.
That's correct, because you don't do the one-line shift. I double checked that "Upper field first" checkbox thing to make sure I don't get confused again (used a test video with some color lines, so that you can see the line shift).

So here's the corrected version (thanks to RB for pointing out the error):

- If your DV source is progressive:
-- switch off the "Upper field first" flag.
-- In the Quality settings, set "Intra block DC precision" to 9 for DVD encoding, 8 for SVCD.
-- Set the "Block scanning order" to "Zigzag".
-- Check the "Progressive frame flag".

- If your DV source is interlaced:
-- switch off the "Upper field first" flag, and use ReStream to change the field order (= uncheck "top field first" in ReStream).
-- In the Quality settings, set "Intra block DC precision" to 9 for DVD encoding, 8 for SVCD.
-- Set the "Block scanning order" to "Alternate".
-- Uncheck the "Progressive frame flag".

bb

[lankford]

@bb
Hi,
I want to do the same thing as you:
because I can improve the video by filtering through AviSynth (I use Convolution3D often).

I use the PluginPac FrameServer with CCE. It works fine.
But now, I want crop just crop movie. If I crop the movie under Premiere, then the encoding process takes 10 hours longer.
So my question is, can you give me a hint how to use filter through AviSynth? Is it possible to send me a little avs script?

Thanks
Lankford

[bb]

Originally posted by lankford
If I crop the movie under Premiere, then the encoding process takes 10 hours longer.
Just by cropping the video :confused: Cropping is not CPU intensive, so I guess the reason for the long processing time is something else.

Convolution3D comes with a help file containing some suggestions on the parameters. There are pre-defined settings as well, the so-called preset, so you could start with
Convolution3D(preset="movieLQ")
before (slightly better quality, but less compression and longer processing) or after the resize (quality might be a little worse, but better compression and quicker processing).

bb

[lankford]

@bb
Thanks for your reply.
I checked it again. If I use adobe premiere video filters (not AviSynth) then the whole encoding process increasing huge. Now I use AviSynth filters. With the following script, I get acceptable results. (Don’t know, if the script optimal, I collected the entries from this forum)

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\convolution3d.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MSharpen.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Msmooth.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TomsMoComp.dll")
AVISource("D:\testavi\premierefiles\avis_test.avi")

Crop(8,8,700,560)
ConvertToYUY2()
TomsMoComp(1,15,1)
SimpleResize(720,576)
#bob()
#Msmooth
Msharpen()

ciao
lankford