Helix Producer: SVCD -> RM gives ActiveMovie Window....?

[DaWolf]

My apologies if this has been asked before: a search on "activemovie" gave no relevant results.

When I load a SVCD MPEG file into Helix Producer an ActiveMovie Window pops up. After a few seconds it disappears with Helix having no input.

Ruud

[ooops!]

Unfortunately, Helix Producer will not accept raw Mpeg2 data streams. They have to be reconfigured first!

[Gaia]

I don't have solution for you problem but transcoding is always very bad idea but if you want to stream, you have to do it ofcourse.

[DaWolf]

Thanks for the quick reply. A while ago I did manage to do 2 SVCD's but for the life of it I can't remember how :-(

@ Gaia: I'm in the habit of "archiving" cams & TS's on my HD. If I can't get the DVD later on I still have a reasonable copy on my HD. Likewise I have a bunch of documentaries for the wife. 1 CD size for 45 mins. is too much in that case. I've found RV9 to be excellent for this purpose.

Ruud

[ooops!]

You won't have a problem importing, .dat files or even Mpeg1 files that have been converted to higher than VCD bitrates, into Helix Producer. Maybe you did this!

Or maybe you used an application like DVD2AVI to generate a .d2v 'pointer/link' file, that Helix Producer can read!

I think that's right anyway!

[karl_lillevold]

Since producer reads MPEG and MPEG-2 via DirectShow, whether or not producer can read MPEG-2, actually depends on your default DS filter for MPEG-2 playback. A majority of them will not feed the video to producer, and this ActiveMovie window pops up instead. The (Moonlight-) Elecard MPEG-2 DS filter is the only one I know has worked, but I do not know the status for more recent Elecard versions. Generally, it is more reliable to use DVD2AVI and create .d2v and audio sources, then reference those in an Avisynth script.

[slavickas]

also (some?) ligos filters worked

[DaWolf]

Thanks.

Yes, earlier I did have success with an install of Ligos. I still have it on my system but am clueless on how to set it as default.

Ruud

[ooops!]

Marvellous!

Downloaded the Elecard Mpeg2 Player (v2.1) and Helix Producer Plus now sees .vob (with .ac3 audio), Mpeg2 and .m2v files - no problem!

No more .d2v files for me!

[ooops!]

What a pisser - I spoke too soon!

Yep, after I downloaded the Elecard Mpeg2 Player (v2.1) Helix Producer could see .vob files ok. But I was wrong about .vob files that contained .ac3 2Ch or 6Ch audio tracks. As it actually only encodes PCM audio sound tracks!

Sure, you can use the settings in Helix and encode just the video part of the .vob file but I want to encode the .ac3 audio as well!

Anybody got any suggestions............

Sorry if this is a bit vague but I've had a bit too drink tonight!

[The Shemeta]

Hi, try with the DVobSub. i know it sounds crazy, but it works with me. set up DVobSub to start always & then open your .vob files. have fun encoding. i hope this helps you.

[karl_lillevold]

after you install Elecard, install ac3filter (google). It should set itself up as the default AC3 DirectShow filter. Verify that it is with for instance opening a vob file in graphedit, or MPC. Elecard should handle MPEG-2 video, ac3filter the AC3 track.

Then you can configure ac3filter to provide as many channels as needed to Producer. /For now/, the most useful option is to have ac3filter downmix to 2 channels Dolby Surround.

Other problems you may or may not run into with later versions of Elecard is a/v sync and framerate jitter. If it works, great, if not, I am afraid the safer method is always DVD2AVI / Avisynth.

[ooops!]

Ha Ha! (Dr Evil laugh!)

Thanks to one and all. Just loaded the .ac3 (v0.67b) filter. Inputed an U2 .vob file with .ac3 audio (from Tomb Raider DVD) and success! I'll try encoding a full movie tomorrow with 6Ch input audio.

Thanks again you guys!

PS. I've had even more to drink now!

[31 Flavas]

hm... I just tried this my self and it worked, maybe too good. When I start the encoding, I get the audio played back through my speakers! The output.rm file plays fine, but I don't want the audio of the encode being played during the encoding.

Anyone know what I can do to turn it off? (besides turing my speakers off)

More importantly; Is anyone else experiencing this?

[ooops!]

Well, I spoke too soon again -

I really must give up drinking when I'm trying something new on the PC!

I just assumed that because Helix is now able to input and encode an Mpeg2 video file with .ac3 audio that everything was OK.

The video looks great (I knew it would) but the encoded audio is just a load of stuttering white noise.

Most of you who have read my previous posts will know that I usually encode 'the video stream only', when testing codecs. However I've been so impressed with video quality of the RMV9 codec that I thought I'd encode my favourite 137min test file with some RM audio as well.

I never thought that getting Helix to recognise and encode an .ac3 audio file would prove to be such a hassle.

Also, I've also just noticed, that after installing the .ac3 (v0.67b) filter, the Elecard Mpeg2 Player (v2.1) can't now playback .ac3 audio content, when it could before!

I don't think I'm getting any closer.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by ooops!

The video looks great (I knew it would) but the encoded audio is just a load of stuttering white noise.

Most of you who have read my previous posts will know that I usually encode 'the video stream only', when testing codecs. However I've been so impressed with video quality of the RMV9 codec that I thought I'd encode my favourite 137min test file with some RM audio as well.

I never thought that getting Helix to recognise and encode an .ac3 audio file would prove to be such a hassle. Hm...

I just did a bunch of encodes (anamorphic + RA Surround) last night using Elcard and Ac3filter in real media. I did not have any problem with the RA Surround playback though. Maybe you need to reinstall/reconfigure ac3filter? I'm using WaveOut for the audio in ac3filter.

--

My problem with the audio playing back during encoding is gone. I don't know what I did, but the problem went away. *shrug*

[ooops!]

> 31 Flavas

I'm glad your problem went away (most probably after reboot). But I still can't get Helix Producer to encode the audio properly.

I tried deleting and reinstalling/reconfiguring the ac3 (v0.67b) filter and used WaveOut for the audio in AC3 filter. But still no joy!

Are you using the same version of the ac3 filter as me?

So far, with my 137min test file, I've been able to encode the 'video stream' and the 'audio stream' separately.

So I thought, if I can't get the ac3 filter software to work properly on my system. Maybe I could mux the separate streams together... any ideas of an easy way to do this as I'm quite new to RealMedia products?

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by ooops!

I tried deleting and reinstalling/reconfiguring the ac3 (v0.67b) filter and used WaveOut for the audio in AC3 filter. But still no joy!

Are you using the same version of the ac3 filter as me?

So far, with my 137min test file, I've been able to encode the 'video stream' and the 'audio stream' separately.

So I thought, if I can't get the ac3 filter software to work properly on my system. Maybe I could mux the separate streams together... any ideas of an easy way to do this as I'm quite new to RealMedia products? Hm... Well I just used google to find both the Elcard and ac3filter (0.68b).

As far as muxing the audio into the .rm file, that's not possible, AFAIK. But, you can use SMIL to play both at the same time. This is very simple to do.

1) make a new text file and name it (movie title).smil

2) put this code into it and save it.


<smil>
<body>
<par>
<video src="(movie title).rmvb"/>
<audio src="(movie title).rm"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil> 3) double-click on the .smil and they will play togther (assuming they are sync'd).

[karl_lillevold]

I am afraid direct VOB encoding is a little too unreliable to generally recommend, even with a combination of Elecard / ac3filter. I tried a combination of Elecard v1.35 and ac3filter 0.68b. What happened was that while encoding, I could hear all extra audio tracks in the speakers. This problem results from not having an interface to select the desired audio track from the VOB file. In addition to the audio playback problem while encoding, this can lead to encoding the wrong track. In my case, the resulting encoding was just fine though.

Going forward, the recommended method will be
1) Use DVD2AVI to create .d2v project and correct .ac3 track
2) Create Avisynth script, this having the advantage of flexible crop / filters / resize settings.
3) Use a job file with separate audio and video inputs : Video being the .avs script, audio being the .ac3 file. Producer then muxes audio and video and will then be able to encode any combination of number of channels, currently the only playable result is to set ac3filter to output Dolby Surround or 2 channel stereo. Use Surround when using RA Surround, 2 channel stereo when using RA Stereo.
I am hoping updated GUI tools will automatically handle this.

Currently, the GUI tools use Besweet to convert the .ac3 track to .wav, and use this as source in Avisynth, with Avisynth combining audio and video prior to input to Producer. This Besweet step will not be necessary from the next Producer Milestone.

[ooops!]

Thanks 31 Flavas & Karl

I've downloaded ac3filter (v0.68b). So as soon as my current project has finished encoding I'll give it a try.

It's a 'real' shame (no pun intended) that you can't mux an RM audio and video file together.

I was hoping that the Helix 'RealMedia Editor 9' would have been a similar tool to the Microsoft 'Windows Media Stream Editor'. But this is not the case!

I have not used the 'RealMedia Editor 9' but I would like to know if it's possible to cut out and save short sections of audio/video from a large encode?

Thanks again

[karl_lillevold]

Originally posted by ooops!
I was hoping that the Helix 'RealMedia Editor 9' would have been a similar tool to the Microsoft 'Windows Media Stream Editor'. But this is not the case!
This is true, but the SMIL method will give you the same result when played back, without any problems with a/v sync or seek (it is only when the audio track is Ogg that a/v sync in SMIL combining RV9 + Ogg does not work correctly). Still, it would have been nice to be able to mux after encoding. At least mux prior to encoding will work.


I have not used the 'RealMedia Editor 9' but I would like to know if it's possible to cut out and save short sections of audio/video from a large encode?
Yes, you can use rmeditor for this. The only problem is that if your start cut point is not right in front of a key frame, there will be a few seconds of audio only before video starts.

[ooops!]

We have lift off!

What a difference that extra digit made to the AC3 Filter.

AC3 Filter (v0.67b) = pants! AC3 Filter (v0.68b) = the dogs nads!

Thanks again for all your help, but I wonder if I may ask for one more piece of advice?

I want to encode my 137min test file in such a way, that the video stream comes to no more than 633MB. If I encode using variable bit rate, what 'audience template settings' will I require?

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
I am afraid direct VOB encoding is a little too unreliable to generally recommend, even with a combination of Elecard / ac3filter. I tried a combination of Elecard v1.35 and ac3filter 0.68b. What happened was that while encoding, I could hear all extra audio tracks in the speakers. This problem results from not having an interface to select the desired audio track from the VOB file. In addition to the audio playback problem while encoding, this can lead to encoding the wrong track. In my case, the resulting encoding was just fine though.Not to correct you nessarily, I totally agree that .dv2 and .avs should be used, but (the newest) DVD Decrypter can do stream processing. You can select which tracks of the original to be in the processed .VOB. You can even choose what indivual chapters you want and put them in a single large .VOB (make sure your file system can support +4GB files). It's perfect for movies spread over multiple .VOBs and with multiple audio tracks.

No video filters/croping/resizing can be used, except for what is in Producer. I also don't see any option in the Elcard decoder to playback subtitles, so RealText subs would have to be made if you need subtitles.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by ooops!

We have lift off!

[snip]

I want to encode my 137min test file in such a way, that the video stream comes to no more than 633MB. If I encode using variable bit rate, what 'audience template settings' will I require? Glad I could help.

Some of the Helix CLI Producer GUI's (x2real, for sure) can do the bitrate calculations for you. You could use x2real to get the bitrate you'll need, quit x2real, then edit an audience template to use that bitrate (minus the bitrate for the audio).

[ooops!]

Thanks, I'll have a look at x2real.

I have edited/created, my own audience templates on a few occasions but found that when I use the same template to encode two different input files. I get different bitrate speeds for each encode.

Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?

Also, did 'DaWolf' have as much luck with this (his) post as we did?

Cheers

[DaWolf]

Works excellent and outstanding. I've been unable to re-create my initial success with Ligos but Elecard does the job perfectly.

Although re-encoding is frowned upon in general having a 40 min. TV episode on a 1 CD SVCD bugs me. RV9 enables me to get great looking feel-good quality @ a much compacter file size. I've tried getting the same feel using DivX during my MPEG2-bereft Helix period and haven't come even close at video rates of 300 Kbits. Following analyses and observations made in this forum as to how RV9 achieves its quality I've attempted the smoother and even set to its max it's simply quality in, crap out.

I'm unaware if anybody else here owns RealOne Player Plus but its video controls have a Sharpness slider. By default it is set to its extreme minus position but even when set to its maximum RV9 files keep looking excellent.

So far my only "gripe" is the speed which is so-so although it clearly outperforms WMV9 which has left me with the strong impression that were I to do the calculations by hand and enter the results manually I would still be faster.

P.S.: no need to question my encoding skills - I have none but the basic; more a user than an encoder.

P.S. 2: sorry for the belated reply - my family keeps insisting on interrupting my computer time :-)

Ruud

Ruud