Almost 1Gb Undersized ??

[dihelson]

Hello, Friends,

This is my first posting here, I hope I can make my best to avoid asking things other people have just asked, but, believe me, I've tried to read the FAQS, and couldn't find a solution for a problem which is happening here with Xvid and Gordian Knot.

I use Gordian Knot 0.28 b2
adn Xvid codec from 05/03/03

The problem is simple: I can't get my movie to fit in 2 or 3 CDs, because it always stay within about 980Mb size. The film is more than 150min long, so I think it would be a good idea to try to fit in 2 or 3 CDs. I tried several times in vain...I setup GordianKnot 0.28 beta2 (the latest), and choose 3 cds. I mark that "frame overhead" option, and my audio in MP3 128k.
Everything seems fine, but the final file is less than 1Gb size...
My Xvid codec configuration is as follows:

First Pass:
6 - Ultra-High
MPEG on the two passes
VHQ - 2
300
1
B-frames:
2
150
100
255
Use chroma motion
DX-50 B-VOP compatibility activated

Second Pass:
DESIRED SIZE: 1900000
Quantization:
2, 6, 2, 6
Debug: Chroma optimization marked

After reading some other FAQs, like DivX faq, I suspect that the Codec limit has come, or may be the movie is too Dark...I don't know..
I'd like some kind of feedback from you.
By the Way, these settings are really good for the Codec ?
Sometimes, the final xvid file takes a lot of time to advance or rewind on the player...

Thanks in advance,
Dihelson

[Koepi]

Erm. Your bframe settings?

First of all, get rid of gknot.

Then use following bframe settings:

-1; 150;100;255

which disables them. Your filesize will raise _very_ huge.

Regards
Koepi

[Defiler]

Tell it to keep the first pass file (or use DebugView) and see how large the first pass is. If it's smaller than you want, either disable B-Frames like Koepi said, or crank up the resolution.

[dihelson]

Originally posted by Koepi
Erm. Your bframe settings?

First of all, get rid of gknot.

Then use following bframe settings:

-1; 150;100;255

which disables them. Your filesize will raise _very_ huge.

Regards
Koepi

Thanks for the prompt answer, KOEPI.
It's not every day we can talk with someone SO EXPERT in Xvid. :)
But, please, let me know this: If I disable B-frames like you said, my file will grow, ...ok, but how about the quality ? It will Growp up too, or simply I will fit the file to CDs without improving any better? So, my purpose of doing it to 2 or 3 CDs was to improve the quality, if I can't make any better than what I've got, I could instead try to fit on a single CD only.
BTW, you said: "get rid of gknot", what do you suggest I can make a better Xvid with ? Autodub instead?
I've noticed (may be I'm wrong, may be not), but noticed that if I use Gknot only for calculations, and make the rest with VirtualDub (the original version 1.4.13) the quality is better, films seems brighter, sharper.
I noticed this when I tried Gknot version 0.28 and letting it makes the whole thing. So, the (my best way) Xvid best quality I got was with Gknot 0.27 and VirtualDub 1.4.13, may be I never liked the image of the new Avisynth Gknot uses to do it.

All the best,
Dihelson

[Koepi]

I use an YV12 process chain (look at the stickies in the avisynth usage forum). Setup the avisynth script by hand, do some first passes until quality/first pass size are in acceptable range (for _my_ eyes that is) and then start the second pass. ;)

My oppinion is that with all those automisation tools you're loosing great part of the control you can have. But then on the other hand, you must be willing to learn very much about video processing and the compression itself (to understand which setting affects which artefact).

To the bframe/quality matter. Since bframes get compressed higher than the pframes, the "mathematical" quality should be a bit better without bframes. But the human noticable difference isn't big.

In your case, I would lift the threshold to 0, use MPEG quant, lanczos resize in your avs-script,... all such small things which are capable of helping quality a lot but raise filesize by ~5-10% steps.

I hope this helps.

Koepi

[dihelson]

Originally posted by Koepi

My oppinion is that with all those automisation tools you're loosing great part of the control you can have.

Koepi [/B]

I do think so, they're the 2 faces of the coin. Less control, poor quality, or on the other side, productivity. Since the whole process is somewhat obscure, we can never know exactly what will be the result, I'm not to blame on the software, but it was for this reason of lack of control which made me abandon FLASK, which is a nice software, but... For me (at least), the quality was not very good. But, that's the progress. I hope future releases of Gknot and some other "automated" softwares like it, could improve even more the parameter "Quality". I wouldn't be bored if some software could make a perfect DVD copy to 1 CD, even if it delayed 1 week or so...I would wait that long. :) For me , the important thing is THE QUALITY, not SPEED. What matters if the Codec is so Good, but we can't go further because our software isn't good enough to give the total output quality the codec delivers? :)

Originally posted by Koepi

In your case, I would lift the threshold to 0, use MPEG quant, lanczos resize in your avs-script,... all such small things which are capable of helping quality a lot but raise filesize by ~5-10% steps.

I hope this helps.

Koepi [/B]

Certainly it will help. Thank you for such a nice software. It's the best thing humans invented since DVD itself. I believe as time passes, Xvid would become so perfect, so perfect (I love it's quality, what can I say?) ,that even perhaps DVDs would be completely outdated in years to come.

Dihelson

[jonny]

My oppinion is that with all those automisation tools you're loosing great part of the control you can have.

Never tryed Enc? :)

[N_F]

Originally posted by Koepi
Setup the avisynth script by hand

You're telling us you do cropping and resizing by hand? When GK can do it for you in a matter of seconds (well, maybe a minute, depending on situation)?

If you take just a small step behind GK's GUI you'll find you can controll pretty much everything by hand if one so wishes.

[snowbeach]

to be honest. i cannot imagine that gknot decreases video quality. in gknot you have the power of setting up the codec you like, writing your own avisynth script. what do you want more? maybe you want to use some filters via vdub(mod)? are you doing this? does this gives you better quality? from my understanding gknot is just the interface between all these nice proggies, sth. like a manager that gives his employees/the proggies the tasks they have to do, but the work is done by them. that is why i really cannot imagine that using gknot decreases quality.