Interested in advanced DVD menu design? There's a nice discussion in this article...

[Arky]

Some of you might find this article interesting:

http://www.dvdcreation.com/2003/04_apr/features/dcd_evolving_art.htm


Arky ;o)

[auenf]

Originally posted by Arky
Some of you might find this article interesting:

http://www.dvdcreation.com/2003/04_apr/features/dcd_evolving_art.htm


Arky ;o)

something tells me you got bored, and wanted some pretty menus?

Enf...

[TeFLoN]

Arky,
I asked the question over at DVDHelp.com but maybe you will answer faster here ;)

What is your method for editing and authoring now? Is it Vegas or Premiere? DVDLab/Maestro/DVDArchitect? Do you use DVDMenu studio and/or Adobe After Effects? Im trying to settle on a tried and true method of creation. I learned Maestro after reading that 688 page manual and I heard that DVDArchitect does things a bit easier. Then I heard about DVDlab (downloading now). Is it possible to do VEgas 4 then feed that to Maestro? Will that give you the best of both worlds with ease and simplicity?

Thanks

TeF

[Arky]

Originally posted by auenf
something tells me you got bored, and wanted some pretty menus?

Enf...
lol - careful, Auenf - people will begin to suspect you are a cynic! :p

Actually, I wasn't looking for menus at all - I simply happened to stumble across the page, in a convoluted manner, via a news link from DMN's forums.

SO there! :D


Arky ;o)

[Arky]

Originally posted by TeFLoN
Arky,
I asked the question over at DVDHelp.com but maybe you will answer faster here ;)

What is your method for editing and authoring now? Is it Vegas or Premiere? DVDLab/Maestro/DVDArchitect? Do you use DVDMenu studio and/or Adobe After Effects? Im trying to settle on a tried and true method of creation. I learned Maestro after reading that 688 page manual and I heard that DVDArchitect does things a bit easier. Then I heard about DVDlab (downloading now). Is it possible to do VEgas 4 then feed that to Maestro? Will that give you the best of both worlds with ease and simplicity?

Thanks

TeF


Lol - funny, but I just answered this on the forum over at DVDhelp before I popped over here!

Well, just for the hell of it, here's my reply again:

Originally posted by Arky at DVDhelp.com



Are you primarily using DVD Architect or Maestro or what?

I am a massive fan of Maestro, but since all my work is my own (i.e. DVD Authoring is not (yet!) my career), there is an obvious dilemma to using this program. Without putting too fine a point on it, without making several thousand pounds per year from the program, there is no way of justifying the license fee. Therefore, as someone who has not yet, but wishes to sell a little work, on a small scale, in the near future, I am forced to bid a fond farewell to the program I have used on a strictly educational basis in the past. I have to be realistic and honest. This being the case, I have to look at programs that I can afford to buy licenses for, without breaking the bank, and bearing in mind that I will not be able to recoup large sums of money to cover the cost. This means my budget is somewhere in the region of <$1,000, and preferably a good deal cheaper. current options in the Windows market at this price point include DVD Architect, ReelDVD, DVDLab (ok, it's still in Beta, but it's got a hell of a lot of potential and I'm watching it very closely), Ulead DVD Workshop, Pinnacle Impression Pro, and now Pinnacle Edition 5 includes DVD authoring, ala DVD Architect. Adobe Encore is in the pipeline for the summer, too.

Since I am waiting for the Edition 5 upgrade to arrive from Germany, I have not tested it's DVD authoring capabilities, but I am unlikely to use this part of Edition anyway, since it's a fantastic NLE, but not so hot on MPEG2 encoding.

I got Impression Pro as part of my Edition 4.5 bundle, but do not like the program because it's a pig to use (if you don't believe me then just look at how much hassle subtitles are!).

So, given that I am still not working commercially, I still enjoy playing with Maestro on the hobby side of things, and I am going to buy an authoring program extremely soon, just as soon as I have decided which will be best for me.

# Ulead DVD Workshop is not bad, but I want more power if I'm going to spend money.

# ReelDVD is tempting, but it's not the best value - I suspect it may be updated once Adobe Encore hits the shelves and takes a big bite out of ReelDVD's market. ReelDVD is still one to watch and I have not turned my back on it yet.

# SF DVD Architect. Well, I must say that there are elements of this program that I do like (especially when combined with Vegas's excellent Dolby5.1 surround sound panning/mixing/encoding), but there is not enough to commend it over and above my existing investment in Edition 5, to make it worth the cash for me. If I were a Vegas user already, then the integration would, admittedly, be more appealing.

# DVDlab...hmmm...well, as I said above, I'm watching this one with great interest.

# Adobe Encore looks pretty decent, although I am nervous about stability, given that it is based upon a Sonic SDK (barring updates, ReelDVD and Scenarist are actually Daikin engineered, whereas DVDit! and MyDVD! are Sonic engineered and not at all stable, IMHO).

I'll be sure to let you know what decision I eventually make, but this may not be for a few months yet, since there is a lot happening in the sub $1000 DVD-authoring software market at the moment and I'm not going to be too hasty to jump in. One thing I am commited to, though, and will not back down from, is that I do not want integrated MPEG video encoding (got no problem with integrated audio encoding, particularly if it's Dolby 5.1, though). I like to be able to fully control my video encoding.

If you are a regular Doom9 forum visitor you will know that there has been much discussion recently, concerning the relative merits of the top four software MPEG encoders. Personally, I feel CCE Basic offers the best all round performance, particularly in a commercial environment.


I finally learned Maestro, but I'm wondering if I shouldnt just stick with DVDArchitect, though I haven't learned it yet. I heard it can make motion menus and thumbnails easier.

Yes, DVD Architect can make motion menus and thumbnails very easily indeed. Also, although you will note from my above remarks that I dislike integrated MPEG video encoding, Architect does currently offer (relatively-speaking!) the best implementation of integrated encoding of any of the DVD authoring tools I have seen - namely, the MainConcept codec, which has a fair balance of tweakability, output quality, and speed. Ulead DVD Workshop also uses this, but Architect is a better program.


Are you primarily using Architect and CCE now?

I am primarily using Pinnacle Edition to edit my footage, then using the excellent 'Fuse' function from the timeline, which is fast as hell, then importing the fused AVI file into CCE Basic, encoding it at 2passVBR, and importing the results into my DVD authoring app, which, as I said at the top of the post, is not the one I wll be using commercially in the longrun, so is as yet 'undecided'.


Where does Adobe After Effects fit into this picture?

Adobe After Effects is an excellent program but you do not need it for general DVD authoring, particularly if you have a competent NLE, such as Vegas, or Edition, for example. Premiere is ok, but if you are doing moving Picture In Picture effects, the motion is not smooth as the frames travel around the screen, and the same issue applies if you are doing moving/scrolling titles - they 'judder' a little across the screen. This is where the Pinnacle/Fast codec excels, because it renders on a sub-pixel level, giving extraordinary smoothness of motion in your rendered video. After Effects and Boris FX/Graffiti/RED also do such rendering jobs extremely smoothly.

After Effects is to video what Adobe Photoshop is to the world of graphics. Boris RED is to video what Adobe Illustrator is to graphics. There are numerous similarities between After Effects and Boris RED, but I draw the distinction between the two because Boris RED can handle vector files in video work, in much the same way that Illustrator can, in graphics work.

In short, unless you want to do some seriously professional motion graphics, and want to spend serious money, then trust me, you really needn't worry about what you're missing without After Effects.


I took a look at DVD Menu STudio and it is equally impressive. It has more features than I can begin to understand.

As with DVDlab, if you want to legally learn a nice program at a bargain price, and with, potentially, a great deal of power, then I think this may prove to be the one to go for. 'Oscar' is a great programmer, and is not greedy. His software puts many big software comapnies to shame, and shows how greedy and inefficient they can be. Do not be intimidated by either DVDlab or DVD Menu Studio, though, because they are both remarkably easy to learn, and to use, despite their surprising power. DVD Menu Studio is not an absolute replacement for Photoshop, when authoring DVD menus, but it does speed things up dramatically, and the lighting effects and lens flares are a really cool way to add class with very little effort, and no additional expensive plugins (such as Knoll stuff for Photoshop).

I hope some of the above made sense. It's difficult to be absolutely crystal clear when there are so many issues to cover in a short space! ;)



Arky ;o)

[TeFLoN]

Arky

All I can say is WOW. Great answer to my question. Very informative, as usual from you. :)

I was talking to a guy in my flying squadron here (Air Force) and he has a wedding videographer business. He said he literally cannot find the time to put his videos on DVD nor the inclination. He sends them off to get done at 140 bucks a pop. Another one of my friends, who just lost his flying job in the civilian sector, jumped on that opportunity and said he could do it for cheaper etc etc. He works on a Macintosh and uses a little cheapy 79 dollar program (though for 79 bucks it seems pretty robust from the features he tells me that he has in it). So tell me, what are the opportunities out there for authoring aside from that kind of stuff? What are your plans with your knowledge?

TeF

[Arky]

Originally posted by TeFLoN

I was talking to a guy in my flying squadron here (Air Force) and he has a wedding videographer business. He said he literally cannot find the time to put his videos on DVD nor the inclination. He sends them off to get done at 140 bucks a pop.

Assuming that he's getting about a $1,000 for each job, then I'd say he is quite wise to save himself the additional hassle of authoring the DVDs, if he can get them done for around $100. Filiming and editing alone are quite time-consuming enough, especially if they are not your main career!

Originally posted by TeFLoN

Another one of my friends, who just lost his flying job in the civilian sector, jumped on that opportunity and said he could do it for cheaper etc etc. He works on a Macintosh and uses a little cheapy 79 dollar program (though for 79 bucks it seems pretty robust from the features he tells me that he has in it).

I'd be interested to know what program this is. Can't be iDVD cos this ships as standard with MACs, and it can't be DVD Studio Pro, cos that's several hundred dollars...

Originally posted by TeFLoN

So tell me, what are the opportunities out there for authoring aside from that kind of stuff? What are your plans with your knowledge?
TeF

Well, it seems to be that there is a bit of a paradox in the DVD-authoring sector at the moment. On the one hand, there has been a massive increase in demand for DVD titles, and this has obviously put great demand on the DVD-authoring sector. On the otherhand, however, there has been a massive increase in the number of people learning how to use DVD-authoring techniques! Therefore, someone looking for a career in DVD authoring these days might not be able to find as large a salary as they might have done a couple of years ago, when such skills were scarce. To be honest with you, I am not absolutely hell-bent on getting a DVD-authoring job. I'd like to work in that area, because I enjoy the creative process, but having said that, I also come from a background of professional furniture making, which I turned my back on, in order to pursue a career in Psychology. I am still keen to continue with psychology, as I find it rewarding on a personal level. Therefore, I am pursuing psychology, but am always keeping my eyes open for a possible opportunity in the direction of Digital Video. I am content to let fate decide which career I eventually end up in, since I know I will enjoy either :D Put a gun to my head, and ask me to tell the future, and I would guess that I'll end up pursuing psychology, but doing smallscale personal contracts for DVD authoring on the side, when time allows.

Are you genuinely interested in entering the authoring sector, then? If you are, you're in the right country. I'd suggest keeping an eye on those forums frequented by professional U.S. Digital Video artists, as I have seen (admittedly not very often) jobs offered on such forums. These include World Wide User Groups (now renamed DMNforums.com), and Creative Cow.

Let me know if I can be of any more help to you, and I'll do my best to assist.


Arky ;o)

[auenf]

Originally posted by Arky
lol - careful, Auenf - people will begin to suspect you are a cynic! :p

im sure everyone by now has caught on to my very laid back, almost comical approach ;)

Actually, I wasn't looking for menus at all - I simply happened to stumble across the page, in a convoluted manner, via a news link from DMN's forums.

SO there! :D

its a good thing the menus i use at work are done by our art department (ok, its just one guy with a G4), my artistic creativity is a little lacking, but on some occasions has blossomed, or something like that.

Enf...

[dvd_master]

I don't think any of those guides really are any good, except for some tips on designs.

Really, it depends on the show. I mean, for a certain series, I would base a menu on something that occured in the show. For example, Yu-Gi-Oh might have a huge card with video playing in the picture, or Escaflowne could have Hitomi's pendant slowly swinging with a video 50% transparent playing in the jewel, with feather falling over the whole thing.

So really, you have to know what the show is and what it's about to really make a good menu. There are basic ones that work with all movies, like just the movie logo at top, then the selections overlayed on a scenes at a side, but do those really strike you as impressive? Bleh.

Edit: I'm a senior member? Woah... when did that happen...

[Arky]

Erm, I agree, but to be fair, I didn't promote the linked stuff as 'Guides', I promoted them as relevant 'discussion' on the topic, with the assumption that they would be food for thought when considering good practice in advanced menu design.

I firmly believe that advanced menus are just as much about good composition and design as they are about technical wizardry, and that's why I posted the link. An extreme example of this would be someone who uses both a moving background and moving PIPs, simply because they think it will impress the viewer, when more often than not, it'll just look messy and uncomfortable to the eye.

If I do find any advanced 'Guides', I'll be sure to post the appropriate URLs here on the forum! :)


Arky ;o)