WM9 with Vorbis audio?

[The Belgain]

Is there any way to do this? Is it possible to mux WM9 into the ogg container? I this possible using Matroska (I'd prefer to use ogg ideally, but would use Matroska if there's no other way).

I ask because I find the MS video codec pretty good, but the wma codec still really poor at low bitartes (<64). Can anyone recommend decent settings for audio at these bitrates?

[Sirber]

Ogg isn't better < 80kbps

[The Belgain]

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Wma sounds terrible at 48 kbit (this is for a Simpsons episode) stereo 44.1kHz VBR (and it doesn't sound too good at 64 either). For some reason there doesn't seem to be any mono, or 22kHz modes with VBR, and the quality is very bad in CBR mode.

Vorbis on the other hand sounds acceptable at these bitrates, and q0 32KHz stereo is good, at about 56 kbit/s.

[Doom9]

actually, it's no problem since Microsoft has released a VfW version of their video codec (which I used in my codec comparison). Just encode your movie as you would using any other codec in VDub(Mod), encode the audio in whatever tool you prefer, then mux everything together using OggMux or VDubMod and you're all set.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by The Belgain Is this possible using Matroska (I'd prefer to use ogg ideally, but would use Matroska if there's no other way). ... now that is really nice from you, thanks so much :D ...

We can mux WMV9 into matroska fine, but our stupid DShow filter cant give data to the WMV9 DShow decoder, which strange enough is not WMV9 DMO ( when played from ASF/WMV container ) but another decoder called 'AVIdecompressor', same is used when WMV9 is played from AVI.

The filtergraph builds fine, but it seems our parser filter cant send real data to the decoder, it either hangs there doing nothing or outputs strange results. We got a hint from Nicolas, the Rududu author, having the very same problems when trying to play his stuff from matroska, and he reproted our parser filter doesnt report the first frame being a keyframe, making his decoder filter block.

It seems other decoder filters are more forgiving here, else we maybe couldnt play anything with our current filter :( . We will adress this problem right after we found the stupid deadlock in the parser, causing it to react strange to pause and stop commands, and once we have a basic, working seeking implemented.

[The Belgain]

Ok, thanks.

@ChristianHJW:

Sorry...I didn't mean to sound harsh with that comment, it's just that I share these files with friends etc. many of who are not very computer-minded, so files they are unlikely to be familiar with are to be avoided.

What is necessary to playback an ogm with WM9 video? Just installing the VCM codec (as well as the ogg DShow filters)? Or do people need to install WMPlayer 9 too? Is WMPlayer9 by itself enough?

[bond]

you have to use winxp or 2000 otherwise the wm9vcm codec doesnt work (thanks to m$)! and you dont need wmplayer9, the files can be played in any player you want...

[zurv]

any update on getting a wm9 vcm video in a ogm file and have play back work? ;)

thanks :)

[Atamido]

I don't know about OGM, but WMV9 and Vorbis work fine together in Matroska. To playback you should just have to install the Matroska Pack.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by Sirber
Ogg isn't better < 80kbps

http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/rja/plot12z.png
Results of 64kbps Public Listening Test (http://audio.ciara.us/test/64test/results.html)

[tiki4]

Haha,

Vorbis beats the hell out of WMA.

Thanks, Latexxx

[Kb_cruncher]

wmv9 and vorbis does not work in OGM:(

Is there any way for it to be supported by an ogm muxer??

Matroska is no good for playback on xbox.I guess i can try avimux with aac but i would rather not.

[bond]

Originally posted by tiki4
Vorbis beats the hell out of WMA.and xvid beats the hell out of wmv :D

[Sirber]

depends, HDTV XviD don't work on my 2000+, HDTV WMV does :o

[saratoga]

Originally posted by tiki4
Haha,

Vorbis beats the hell out of WMA.

Thanks, Latexxx

Thats WMA Pro I think (too lazy to double check). Its actually a different codec then WMA std. Not saying std is better, but I'd be cautious about drawing conclusions about std from pro or the other way around.

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by saratoga
Thats WMA Pro I think (too lazy to double check). Its actually a different codec then WMA std. Not saying std is better, but I'd be cautious about drawing conclusions about std from pro or the other way around.

WMA Standard was tested when the listening test was done. The reason for this choice was that no stand-alone player supports WMA Pro. WMA Pro is slightly better than WMA Standard but you can't use it for low-bitrate encodings(except q 10).

[Atamido]

Originally posted by Kb_cruncher
Matroska is no good for playback on xbox. The latest release should work fine.

[aaar9800]

Pamel do you know this for a fact?
What is the latest release? The 01-07 build or the very latest cvs?

[Atamido]

I heard it through the grape vine, so I don't know for sure. If nothing else, it is listed as supported on their about page. (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/info_project.htm)

[aaar9800]

They were saying it since May 2003, but unfortunatelly xbmc/xbmp isn't able to play matroska yet.

[Kb_cruncher]

and xvid beats the hell out of wmv

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you there.Most people may think so because of the crappy PP that wmv uses, disable it and the quality really shines through.It does tend to add a lot of grain noise which isn't to everyones liking but i think it gives more depth an realism to the video and with pp disabled the video is much sharper than anything xvid can produce.I have been using xvid a long time know and would not give it away lightly:(

They were saying it since May 2003, but unfortunatelly xbmc/xbmp isn't able to play matroska yet.

It is supposed to be high on the todo list of XBMC but i wouldn't hold my breath.

Is anyone with knowlege of ogm muxers able to tell me if support for wmv9 is possible ?

[bond]

Originally posted by Kb_cruncher
I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you there.Most people may think so because of the crappy PP that wmv uses, disable it and the quality really shines through.It does tend to add a lot of grain noise which isn't to everyones liking but i think it gives more depth an realism to the video and with pp disabled the video is much sharper than anything xvid can produce.I have been using xvid a long time know and would not give it away lightlyman, the idea to disable wmv9's postprocessing was invented on doom9 :D

[Atamido]

Originally posted by aaar9800
They were saying it since May 2003, but unfortunatelly xbmc/xbmp isn't able to play matroska yet. There were several users that popped into the IRC channel a while ago that said that it worked, then they broke it. I thought somebody said it worked again, my mistake.

[aaar9800]

Yeah... I was so excited when I read that it works, and it didn't.