Consortium's BluRay next gen DVD?

[ducati9x]

I was just wondering, will all the hoopla about squeezing your 6 gig rips onto one 4.7g DVD... why not wait till the Consortium's (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, etc...) BluRay technology takes off. BluRay, also backwards compatible with all DVD media, can hold (from what I've read) up to 50g on one disc.

I realize we all subscribe to the policy of instant gratification, but I'd hate to drop so much $$$ when I'm just going to buy a BluRay somewhere down the line.

[Selur]

"why not wait till the Consortium's (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, etc...) BluRay technology takes off"
because of the fact that I need a backup of my DVDs now (for playing on my laptop) and not in the near future, and even if BlueRay hits the market, it's not worth it to upgrade my old laptop,...

Cu Selur

[TheXung]

DVDs came out like ten years ago and only now have the burners gotten relatively cheap for us to buy. If you're waiting to write to some blue-ray disc, expect to wait another ten years.

[ducati9x]

DVDs may have been out for a while... but consumer burners are relatively new. And look how fast the price has dropped.

Though retail is 3800 right now... i'd say 2-3 yrs before it hits 300-500 dollar range. Besides, blue lasers are friggin cool.

Maybe DVDs will reach the same fate that divx players once did.

[31 Flavas]

Maybe your talking about something different, but plextor already makes a DVD+R/DVD+RW burner for $299.99.

http://www.plextor.com/english/products/504A.html

[NoLogo]

Yeah, they're talking about Blue Ray technology (a thiner blue beam - or ray ? - instead of the actual red one), that allows to put 27 GB on one plate. But the current prices are 3500€ (about the same in $). A bit more expensive ;).
DVD+RW or R are usual red beam/ray writer.

Regards
NoLogo

[TheXung]

Originally posted by ducati9x
DVDs may have been out for a while... but consumer burners are relatively new. And look how fast the price has dropped.

Though retail is 3800 right now... i'd say 2-3 yrs before it hits 300-500 dollar range. Besides, blue lasers are friggin cool.

Maybe DVDs will reach the same fate that divx players once did.

I don't have a blu-ray reader nor do I have any blu-ray discs, nor does anyone else that I know. Why on earth would the burners get cheap if no one has a drive that will read them?

And even if they do get cheap in 2-3 years, you don't think a couple hundred dollars today is worth 2-3 years worth of use from a DVD burner?

[trbarry]

I picked up a DVR-105 at an Office Max sale recently for only about $170 after rebates.

I think any money invested in a DVD-R burner now will be more than compensated in the future by the price drop on these largely imaginary blue laser burners. So after the price comes down I'll own both a blue laser and a (very old) DVD-R burner.

And of course the very first models of anything often don't end up being the standard.

- Tom

[nikthebak]

So, the BluRay will replace current DVD's, both in data and video usage. Does that mean we all have to buy HDTVs anytime soon?

And does it mean that the media industry will have to make yet another total re-release of their movie database?

I'm somewhat sceptical about that. DVD technology has indeed existed for about ten years, but DVD's didn't really hit the market until in 2000/2001 IIRC. The movie industry is currently rapidly making re-releases of their titles on DVD. A substantial portion of movies hasn't even been released on DVD yet.

The average consumer is nowadays probably very enthusiastic about his new DVD player and is currently upgrading his movie collection. He might have purchased a big, expensive widescreen (PAL/NTSC) TV and a DVD player very recently. Now he hears that he has to buy a new HDTV, a new BluRay player and upgrade his movie collection again? And even worse, the media industry, which have very recently noticed the DVD, will hear that they have to make yet another expensive re-release round on their titles?

I would like to have your opinion of this, if possible. I still would be able to sell my brand new (obsolete, I hear) PAL 32" widescreen TV for decent amount of cash. That won't be possible after five years or so...

[trbarry]

Well, with progressive DVD players (and HTPC's) now becoming affordable you already need an HDTV, or at least a display with 480p or 576p resolution if you want to have DVD look best. Regular interlaced TV's really don't do a DVD justice if they are bigger than 30" or so. And if they are smaller than that then they don't handle widescreen material very well since too much of the small screen is taken up with black bars.

But, just like with DVD's, even if there is a new hardware recording format Hollywood may need a few years bickering about what sort of copy protection to put on it. I've seen no indication that process is anywhere near complete yet.

And if they come out with something so crippled that you need DTCP or HDCP protected digital inputs to view it then it probably won't become a standard any time soon anyway. In that event the only common HD-DVD's will probably be the ones we make ourselves, more likely on DVD-R.

- Tom

[nikthebak]

Thanks for the insight, trbarry!

Originally posted by trbarry
Well, with progressive DVD players (and HTPC's) now becoming affordable you already need an HDTV, or at least a display with 480p or 576p resolution if you want to have DVD look best.

But my PAL TV (actually, it's a multinorm) already supports progressive scan through RGB inputs. It even has a VGA input connector which can be used at 720x576 @ 60-75Hz full progressive.

The problem is that a lengthy VGA cable is very expensive and my Radeon doesn't have RGB connectors for TV output. I hear almost no display adapter has. A HDTV through DVI connectors would indeed be a much easier solution.

[trbarry]

But my PAL TV (actually, it's a multinorm) already supports progressive scan through RGB inputs. It even has a VGA input connector which can be used at 720x576 @ 60-75Hz full progressive.


I didn't know PAL TV's could handle 576p. Is that common? If so then you are pretty close to HDTV already. I have a 1080i TV but the best progressive resolution I can get with custom timings on my graphics card is about 544p.

And the new "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" (or something like that) DVD will also have a WM9 version on it encoded at 1024x576. I don't know if M$ plans that as a common format but your TV does not know what the horizontal dot clock is anyway so if it's a 16:9 ratio you should be set up pretty good to view things like this.


The problem is that a lengthy VGA cable is very expensive and my Radeon doesn't have RGB connectors for TV output. I hear almost no display adapter has. A HDTV through DVI connectors would indeed be a much easier solution.

Is a VGA cable more expensive than a DVI cable? I think you are lucky to have a TV that accepts RGB. I have to use a $120 Audio Authority 9A60 converter to convert the RGB from my video card into YPbPr for my TV. All video cards are RGB (VGA) already. I'm not sure why you don't think it would work if you set up the right timings using Powerstrip or something. Once set up you could use it as your primary monitor if it had sufficient horizontal resoluton.

- Tom

[thop]

If HDTV is an indication for BlueRays success it won't be available for another ten years - in Europe. I have yet to see a HDTV here anywhere, let alone hear anyone talk about it. I guess since PAL is better than NTSC there is either no demand or it's a world wide conspiracy against us :)
How's HDTV doing in Asia btw?

[nikthebak]

Originally posted by trbarry
I didn't know PAL TV's could handle 576p. Is that common?

I don't think it's all that common, and by which I mean I've never seen such TV before. I'm not exactly sure whether my TV is meant to be a computer monitor anyway.

Here are the specs of the TV. (http://www.finlux.com/finlux/tuote.cfm?id=739&type=tv)

I checked the user's manual and unfortunately the TV only accepts progressive scan for 60 Hz sources (NTSC or PAL-60 which are 480p) when using the standard SCART connectors. No wonder since it seems that no one has bothered to officially standardize 576p @ 50 Hz PAL. The VGA input however should be able to handle 576p.

The whole progressive PAL/NTSC situation is just too damn complicated IMO.

All video cards are RGB (VGA) already. I'm not sure why you don't think it would work if you set up the right timings using Powerstrip or something.

Now there's something I didn't know. I had no idea you could take your display adapter's VGA signal and run it through to your TV's RGB connectors. I'm currently browsing the catalogs for pre-made VGA->RGB->SCART adapters :)

Originally posted by thop
If HDTV is an indication for BlueRays success it won't be available for another ten years - in Europe. I have yet to see a HDTV here anywhere, let alone hear anyone talk about it.

I don't know whether HDTV will really be the indicator for BlueRay's success, but I strongly believe it will. I mean, does BluRay offer any real benefits for PAL/NTSC DVD users anyway? Due to the increased data storage capacity for BluRay discs, it would be more than sensible to store HDTV data to the disc instead of obsolete PAL/NTSC signal.

How's HDTV doing in Asia btw?

IIRC In Japan HDTV (or HiVision) has been all too common for ten years now.

Edit:

Alas, it's true that HDTV is really nonexistent in Europe. No matter how much I would want one, I don't think it's possible to buy one from Finland. So we just have to cope with Progressive PAL or whatever until the year 2030 or so.

[vinks]

i thought that the blue lasers (running at a smaller wavelength) generated more heat than the red lasers, that was the whole problem of building "blue" lasers.

[int 21h]

Its too bad the Hollywood consortium isn't even considering BlueRay for HD-DVD.

Finally remembered where I read it: http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20020301S0091