Windows Media Video (WMV9) VCM in beta

[amirm]

As I promised a while back, we are now in beta with the VCM interface for WMV 9. Yes, I know it was supposed to be out last month but you know how it is with software :). This code should let you put WMV 9 streams into AVIs or any other container you like.

Be sure to read the notes at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/codecs/vcm.aspx .

The beta version has limited compatibility but the final version should be far more compatible. For now, VirtualDub and Adobe Premiere are the apps that we know work. You can of course use it in other applications and see what happens.

I will check from time on this thread and give the feedback to the team.

Happy encoding!

Thanks,
Amir
Microsoft

[hurts70]

glad to hear that...
thx for your work...:D

[ChristianHJW]

Hmmm .... i'm glad i didnt make a bet on that, seems i would have lost that bottle of Scotch to you amirm ;) ....

[bond]

great news!!!

although shouldnt there show up a "wmv9" option under virtualdub -> compression?

[Ramirez]

Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name string, kinda buggy though, any attempt to configure this codec in "2 Pass VBR Mode" results in infinite loop of error messages.(at least for me)

[bond]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name stringnope, there is no such thing in my case!?

hm, i am using winme, hopefully it doesnt only work in winxp (like wmencoder9) :mad:

[Ramirez]

Dunno what might be wrong,I'm using WIN2k have a look at this screenshot. (http://www.redzone.co.il/vad/wmv9/comp.JPG)

[bond]

Thanks for that Ramirez, i believed you of course

perhaps someone with a non win2k or winxp system can give this a try and share his experiences if it works or not...

[ChristianHJW]

Showing up nicely here on my Virtualdub ... Win2K rulezz, as always ;) ...

First results using 300 kbps ( as per recommended settings ) on a low filtered 640 x 288 movie look nice i have to admit :D !!

[trbarry]

Nope. Doesn't show up in VirtualdubMod with Win/Me.

Drat!

- Tom

[deXtoRious]

Holy shit! I was beginning to think that this is never going to happen. Great work! :D

[S_O]

For me it works great (win2k sp3)!

It is possible to mux the video from avi into asf toghether with wma audio to create a compatible wmv-file? Is there any asf-muxer that doesn´t require re-encoding? I tried the "Windows Media Multiplexer"-Filter in GraphEdit, but it won´t connect to the AVI Splitter without inserting a decoder filter.
The other way round works fine with AsfTools, I can remux an wmv/asf to avi and play it perfectly (works only with wmv7 (using ffdshow) and wmv9, because the wmv-decoder doesn´t connect to avi-splitter), but not the other way round.

[amirm]

Originally posted by trbarry
Nope. Doesn't show up in VirtualdubMod with Win/Me.
- Tom

Tom, this beta drop is XP only (although as you have found out, it may also work on Win2K). The final version though, will support all the OS platforms that Media Player 9 supports (Win98 SE, Me, Win2K and XP).

Thanks,
Amir

[stax76]

@amirm

DivX and XviD save their settings at HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software.
Some tools make usage of that. Would be great if Windows Media
Video 9 VCM would do this too


Tom, this beta drop is XP only


but it don't support XP style yet :)

[Baalthazaar]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name string, kinda buggy though, any attempt to configure this codec in "2 Pass VBR Mode" results in infinite loop of error messages.(at least for me)

I get no errors when using 2-pass VBR, though v-dub refuses to terminate on the last frame and I have to click 'abort'. Haven't played with it much yet, though, so I'd expect to find some bugs sooner or later. :) Nice to have it released finally, though.

[Ramirez]

Yeah,glad to hear that you're OK, me on the other hand still stuck with that 2-pass prob, nevermind I'll try to mess with that codec later on my second machine(WINXP)currently encoding my 1000000th SBC Rip, nothing even close to these amazingly good quality SBC rips I've seen on the net,how the hell these guys are doing it!!! :D

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

damn doesn't work (yet :) ) under win9X u could have acces to the parameters panel (add in the system.ini the vid.wmv3 and do the same in HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\

but once u start an encode it crash :) i hope beta2 will come soon with a full Win9X support.

Bye.

[ChristianHJW]

Hmmm ... can anybody tell me why my encode looks marvellous in the Vdub preview window, but very blurry and cloudy when played in WMP7 ( same window size ) ? Am i forced to get a newer version of WMP, like 8 or 9, to get a decent DShow filter for playback ?

[bond]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
... to get a decent DShow filter for playback ? I dont know if there exists a DShow filter?

[HaSh]

niice...seems like Microsoft came through as promised. Ill give this a shot...thx for keepin us updated Amir. I cant wait until final. WMV9 + vdub editing capabilities = great rips! :)

[CruNcher]

@ Amirm
hehe was in no doubt that Microsoft would release it especialy after the release of the SDK, for a beta its ok so far exicted what will come in the next days mabye direct avi support in the WindowsMediaEncoder and Moviemaker2 ?

PS: The Cli thing on the bottom isn't that Patented by Divx Networks ;) *little insider joke*

[slavickas]

it's seems still impossible to use in ogm :(

[zulu]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Hmmm ... can anybody tell me why my encode looks marvellous in the Vdub preview window, but very blurry and cloudy when played in WMP7 ( same window size ) ? Am i forced to get a newer version of WMP, like 8 or 9, to get a decent DShow filter for playback ?
Yes! This is exactly what i thought when i tried it yesterday..
BTW.: I tried to mux the encoded wm video into an ogm container but was not able to play it back (unknown error in mediaplayer). Does anybody know if wmv in ogm is working?

[S_O]

My tests:
WMV v7 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM is working perfect (also without ffdshow, the wmv9-vcm seem to have unlocked/replaced the Video-DirectShow-Filters). The MS-decoder can also playback WMV v7 encoded with ffvfw perfectly.
WMV v8 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM is not working correctly:
sound is fine, no error messages, but picture is only artifacts, same for avi.
WMV v9 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM doesn´t work. Error message: A unknown error occured (Ein unbekannter Fehler ist aufgetreten).
In VirtualDubMod the ogm is also not openable (page error). Muxing in VirtualDubMod, I get the same error in WMP, the file is also not openable again in VirtualDubMod. So it´s defintly not a problem with the OGM-DirectShow-Filters.

Test with matroska: Works fine in VirtualDubMod-Matroska (Matroska 0.1.0).

The WMV v9-avi is not playable on systems without the wmv9-vcm installed. Also automatic codec download doesn´t work. After remuxing the video from avi to asf (using vidtoasf) it can also be played there perfectly, but file is much larger (about 150% from the original avi)

[Baalthazaar]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yeah,glad to hear that you're OK, me on the other hand still stuck with that 2-pass prob, nevermind I'll try to mess with that codec later on my second machine(WINXP)currently encoding my 1000000th SBC Rip, nothing even close to these amazingly good quality SBC rips I've seen on the net,how the hell these guys are doing it!!! :D

I wasn't insinuating that you were doing anything wrong, just confirming that it's not broken for everyone (so as not to scare away any testers). Filesize on 2-pass VBR is somewhat erratic for me in the few tests I've done and quality isn't quite up there with XviD....still fun to play around with though.

I will say that this codec seems to surpass XviD and RV9 at very high bitrates when you want maximum quality.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by S_O Test with matroska: Works fine in VirtualDubMod-Matroska (Matroska 0.1.0).

:eek: :eek: :eek: !!!!

I have thought of many things, but not to test this at all. Seems like Cyrius had made an excellent job with matroskadub !!!

[deXtoRious]

Has anybody tried it with interlaced movies? I tried the deinterlace function and, well, the result was extremely blocky to say the least :mad:

Also one more thing: I tried constant bitrate CBR 800kbps and for some reason the codec used ~1.2mbps! I was using FlaskMPEG if it matters.

[ookzDVD]

@amirm,

Thank you for your VCM build,
I finally can use WMV9 in the .AVI, I'm also happy with the result,
even it's still slow about 8fps compare with DIVX 20 fps, and XVID 18fps.

I will follow the progress, I bet it will be better in the next release :)

[Sgt_Strider]

Is there a good way to calculate the bitrate that I should use for 2 pass encoding? I don't think there is some sort of WM9 calculator that exists that will actually help with the encoding of WM9 content.

[HaSh]

Do you think there will be faster encoding in the final build? All I have is a 850 MHz duron. I get only 3 fps!

[phrentec]

Will the team also be working on a VCM interface for for the Windows Media 9 screen (or screen capture codec) codec (which is the WMV codec that is in par similar to the techsmith (TSCC) screen capture codec)?

[Sirber]

I'm doing 2-3 FPS with this codec. I get the same speed with H264. lol

[sjchmura]

You need to read the documentation (albeit hard to combe by)

Move the QUALITY slider 1 notch from the left.

You will encode 5-7x faster and I dare you to see a difference in quality at high bit rates for HDTV etc.

720p HDTV frame by frame I simply cannot tell the difference between MAX quality and 1 notch from the left. Many people in avsforums.com have experiemented also, taken screen grabs etc, and we can't see a difference.

This is MUCH faster then DIVX for HDTV and MUCH better quality then the crap 5.04b.

FOr DVD size stuff I am less impressed at low bit rates. I think DIvx and even XVID (shudder) look good. But for HDTV size images and files getting 1:5 compression (8GB/HR to 2GB/HR looks amazing. Again, I dare poeple to tell if Alias HDTV was WM9 or the original broadcast after encoding with 1 pass VBR Q94/AC3.

[Si]

Isn't it ironic that MS now use VirtualDub for testing WMV in avi's when originally they warned Avery off for its ability to read asf's (its precursor)

2 legs good - 4 legs bad ;)

regards
Simon

[deXtoRious]

I don't get it :mad: I keep getting EXTREMELY blurry and blocky movies using 800kbps (even non-interlaced). What am I doing wrong???

[sjchmura]

What are you using for your Audio???? I have been using 2 pass VBR 1000kbit total with 192 5.1 for DVD's at 720x480 - frame by frame looks great.

HDTV definitly needs 2.5-4mbit

[zulu]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
I don't get it :mad: I keep getting EXTREMELY blurry and blocky movies using 800kbps (even non-interlaced). What am I doing wrong???

i've got the same problem.
i've done a clip (pal progressive,576x304) @ 900 kbps/2pass which looks very, very blurry.
(i even installed wm9 and disabled "video smoothing" to be on the save side..)
wm9 vcm codec also seems to have a problem with yv12 input.
i noticed color stepping in several scenes.

[deXtoRious]

So that's it! I was using YV12 all the time! Will try LOTR 1000kbps VBR 2 pass tonight... better use YUV2 this time.

[dattrax]

I must say that I've just encoded some stuff (10mins worth) with this and it does seem very good. Only Odd think I found was the number of key frames it seemed to be inserting.

Jim

[Ramirez]

Sjchmura,would you mind to drop down that "guru" tone of yours? If you wanna help people around here then fine, just make sure you're doing it nicely.

Btw: oh yeah and in case you haven't notice the way this web board titled.

Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

[TheXung]

Originally posted by siwalters
Isn't it ironic that MS now use VirtualDub for testing WMV in avi's when originally they warned Avery off for its ability to read asf's (its precursor)

2 legs good - 4 legs bad ;)


I don't think microsoft needs virtual dub for testing or for anything at all. Realize that getting WM9 to work in virtual dub is a service to us. That's really the only way that most of us would be willing to use the codec. Be grateful that they've done this and don't think you can twist it around and rub it in their noses. Their stance is obviously that they'd rather have avi support rather than outside tools support WMV.

[Sirber]

Is there any spyware in this codec? We don't know... maybe it checks for valid windows licences. :eek:

[deXtoRious]

Just use tools like Regmon and Filemon, also a traffic monitor to be sure...

I tried with YUV2 and the result was the same (horrible) :( Could one of those lucky people who get great results post their settings here?

[zulu]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
I tried with YUV2 and the result was the same (horrible) :(
same result here...

[temporance]

Originally posted by TheXung
Their stance is obviously that they'd rather have avi support rather than outside tools support WMV. I'd say, their stance is that WM9 is loosing out to DivX and xvid in our scene and their VCM hack is trying to change this.

[dattrax]

good results settings.

Used latest version of avisynth with latest official virtualdub

script was as follows

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\dvd2avi186\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
video=MPEG2source("identity.d2v", cpu=0, ipp=true)
audio=WAVSource("identity AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps 48KHz.wav")
audiodub(video, audio)
ConvertToYUY2()


That was it

codec was configured 2 pass VBR, 780000bps performance set at maximum. The rest of the settings I didn't touch

Jim

[Sgt_Strider]

Why don't someone try to make a WM9 calculator to help calculate the birate needed for 2 pass encodings?

[deXtoRious]

Why don't someone try to make a WM9 calculator to help calculate the birate needed for 2 pass encodings?

If you'd write the equation here, I could write a program...;)

2 dattrax

Will post the results tommorow.

[deXtoRious]

Results with AviSynth 2.0 - playing with wmp9, video shows black screen only, sound is OK. I don't get it... Will try again with AviSynth 2.5.

[Snollygoster]

Guys, I downloaded a WMV9 VCM which I do not think is beta (it doesn't mention that anywhere) and I am encoding in VdubMod with modified AviSynth v2.51 (YV12) 2 Pass VBR and I am on first pass right now getting 16fps compared with 18fps with DivX 5.03.

I will check on the quality and let you know.

My source is FRIENDS PAL DVD 4:3 interlaced.

[deXtoRious]

What bitrate are you using? Also are you using any deinterlace filter?

[Snollygoster]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
What bitrate are you using? Also are you using any deinterlace filter?


I can not remember the bitrate right now but I calculated it in order to give me 150 MB for 20 mins of video.

Yes I am using the latest Decomb for AviSynth v2.5.

I have to mention that I was getting 18fps average on the first pass and then it got down to 5-6fps for the second pass. Then I got bored and stopped the encoding before finishing but I checked the 5 min of video created and it looks WAY MUCH BETTER than any DivX 5.0 / XviD / RV9 / SBC combination. I am impressed.

The only thing I care about is that the DirectShow decoder is an MS one and does not feature any postprocessing options so brightness and contrast are not optimal (they are the same as DivX and so on but then I can use postprocessing on that).

This is why I am posting on the AviSynth usage forum about an AviSynth filter that might do that while encoding the movie.

PS: I have to note that the playback codec is not built-in in Windows Media Player 9 as I could play my AVI using any player (not like the annoying RV9).

Thanks.

[deXtoRious]

Please post your entire AviSynth script, because I'm having problems with WMV9 VCM as you can read above. Also what do you mean with "modified" Avisynth? Is it a public release?

[Snollygoster]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
Please post your entire AviSynth script, because I'm having problems with WMV9 VCM as you can read above. Also what do you mean with "modified" Avisynth? Is it a public release?

Modified release for the latest latest VirtualDub Mod.

Here is my script:


#Script Generated by SwiftAVS.

#PLUGINS:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DivX\SwiftAVS\Plugins\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DivX\SwiftAVS\Plugins\Decomb_YV12.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DivX\SwiftAVS\Plugins\BlockBuster_YV12.dll")

#SOURCE:
Mpeg2Source("T:\TV\F.R.I.E.N.D.S\Series 03\322\vts_01.d2v", idct=2)

#IVTC, DEINTERLACE:
FieldDeinterlace(full=true)

#CROPPING:
crop(16,2,704,572)

#A:R RESIZE:
LanczosResize(496,400)

#BLOCKBUSTER:
BlockBuster(method="sharpen", block_size=8, detail_min=1, detail_max=10, strength=25)

[deXtoRious]

I have one more question: what is the blockbuster filter ment for?

[Jan Marijniszoon]

I've tested it last night with VirtualDub 1.5.1 (P4-release) on Win2K SP2 and it works perfectly.
Playback is good too with WMP 6.4. Muxing with ogg gives strange blocks though.

What bothers me is the smoothing.
I my opninion M$ stole that trick from RV9. Some sort of internal code that smooths/blurs more when the quantisizers rise up.

They should drop that. It's just like with DivX 3.11;
With the slider on 4 it looks horriably blurred. With the slider on null it looks very natural and sharp (even with blocky artifacts).

[wing1]

with the slider on null, you would gain speed. Quality and speed wise it is much better at 1 slide from null. Anything above that mark, I did not noticed much differences except a drastic drop in encoding speed by 1/2!

[sjchmura]

Blockbuster vs Anti-blocking/ringing in MPEG2DEC3??

iS THE BLOckbuster an AVI 2.5 plugin? Could not find it on the avbisynth.org page.

What about the block busting and deringing built into MPEG2dec3??? I have been using that for the 480 upconverts and it looks amazing. Defintley looks better then the low bit rate 1920x1080i I get from UPN with Enterprise.

I am using CPU=5 with strength of 25 and 45

[sjchmura]

Anyone notice that the offsets for AC3 (delay) are not quite right with VDUB mod?? For my HDTV streams I seem to have to substract about 25-50ms to get the sound and lips in sync

Anyone else notice a bit of an anti-red shift? The output with MPEG2DEC3 looks like it is lacking a little red compared to the original image

[trbarry]

Guys, I downloaded a WMV9 VCM which I do not think is beta (it doesn't mention that anywhere)

Where did you find that?

The link on page one of this thread looks like it still points to the same beta. But the Amirm has promised the production version will not be restricted to Win/Xp so it would be nice if that's here somewhere.

- Tom

[wing1]

@tom

What do you mean by restriction to win/xp? I am running win2k here and I don't have any problem with the s/w I've download from the link from the first page.

[trbarry]

Yeah, W2K works also, but the codec won't show up in Win/Me yet. Amir has stated that's only a temporary restriction and Win/Me will be supported once out of beta.

- Tom

[Jan Marijniszoon]

Originally posted by wing1
with the slider on null, you would gain speed. Quality and speed wise it is much better at 1 slide from null. Anything above that mark, I did not noticed much differences except a drastic drop in encoding speed by 1/2!

What are you talking about?
I was talking about the DivX 3.11 Playback DirectShow-filter.

The slider in the encoding options of WM9 doesn't affect the smoothing/blurring. I think it is inside of the encoder/decoder and that bothers me.

In the next version of RV9 this blurring-stuff maybe is going to be fixed. I hope they will fix it in WM9 too, otherwise I will never use it.

I just like it pure; with or without blocks and/or ringing.

[dattrax]

Hi,

I have discovered a bug with this codec which corrupts the image if the x & y sizes are not divisible by 16. My original test didn't have any resize which is why it work flawlessly, but I've just stumbled across this.

Jim

[Snollygoster]

@trbarry

my bad it was beta. i got the file from another site and the installation says nothing about beta.

[chris25frfr]

is it possible to mix a wma9 audio with a wmv9-avi (or in the futur?)

thinks.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by chris25frfr is it possible to mix a wma9 audio with a wmv9-avi (or in the futur?)

Bad idea, another bad hackery. WMV9 VCM works in matroskadub already ( great job Cyrius ) .... so if someone makes a WMA2MKA based on MPA2MKA you may have this combo available 1st May ( see my other release posting ).....

[thop]

how do i properly uninstall the WMV9 VCM?

[Sirber]

a little format c: ;)

[thop]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I tried in the control panel, it removes WMV9 but it comes back next time i check. Also there doesn't seem to be anything that can be regsrv32 /u 'd :confused:

[thop]

bump :o

[feliz]

I have been able to encode dvd m2v to avi (wmv9) with ac3 beautifully using virtualdub (without sych problems). I think I like the resulting avi better than divx encoded. Next, I will try with DTS. I whish I could compare to RV9 avi with ac3, but no options thus far.

[trbarry]

I recently put up a test copy of Win/XP just so I could try this. Using vdubmod with the VCM codec I still could find no major advantage of WM9 over Xvid at high bit rates for HDTV type stuff.

In fact, Xvid seemed to usually have a tad better PSNR for the same files size. OTOH some other guys posted pics of doing similar encodings at a lower bit rate and WM9 did appear to have the advantages there.

So I'm still playing with it.

It's curious, and maybe OT, but my system appears to be able to properly play WM9 avi files I make myself but it generates all kind of strange macroblock ghosting artifacts if I play any of the wmv files downloaded from Microsoft.

Maybe a Radeon LE driver issue?

- Tom

[feliz]

With wm9 (>2000 kbs) I seem to have less ringing artifacts around objects than divx or xvid.

[Didée]

feliz:

And since no-one knows what WMV9 is actually doing to the stream between decoding and displaying, the absence of ringing means - nothing.
With activated de-ringing, every little bit of XviD's ringing is also gone away. But then indeed, WMV9 looks better ...
So, another conclusion could be that it is simply the post-processing that works better than XviD's - apart from the fact that M$ is not doing any PP, no, no-no, never, of course ... ;)

[CaptainCarrot]

So, another conclusion could be that it is simply the post-processing that works better than XviD's - apart from the fact that M$ is not doing any PP, no, no-no, never, of course ...

Well, if they do pp, they're damn good at it and do it with hardly any cpu-power, since playback of wm9 seems to need less cpu-power for playback than divx/xvid without any pp

[trbarry]

I haven't seen that either. I'd guess that at the same bit rate and resolution Xvid takes less CPU.

- Tom

[marnum]

On my notebook [Athlon XP 2000+; 512; XP SP1] WM9 takes less CPU than Xvid.
I compared an Xvid encode using B-frames (no qpel and no gmc because I used VHQ) to a WM9 encode. Resolution 720x288. Xvid needed 60% in average, with peaks at 75% - WM9 needed 40% in average, with peaks at 55%. I don't use a spec. tool for measuring this, only Task Manager and my eyes :cool:
Since I encode my vids for watching them on my notebook, CPU power needed for playback is quite important to me - long battery life ;). From now on WM9 is my first choice (as long as I can't get RV9 to play flawlessly)

EDIT: I switched it to 500 Mhz before testing this - don't you think it takes 60/40% CPU on a 2 Ghz machine! :sly:

[CaptainCarrot]

Just did some test with 720x556 anamorphic, and I agree that xvid/divx with fddshow takes a little bit less cpu-power to decompress than wm9. My mistake, I'm pretty much a newbie with xvid, i used mainly DivX so far, and the Divx-decoder needs about 2 times the cpu-power without any postprocessing. That made Divx pretty much unplayable on my 1,2GhzP3. It plays fine though with fddshow, but I always have the impression that there is some greenish fog over the whole movie that isn't there with the divx-decoder, that's why I usually don't use it to decompress DivX.

[trbarry]

Results seem to vary somewhat.

I've been playing with compressing a very clean but heavily filtered low motion HDTV clip. This is a 1280x720@24p clip compressed at only CBR 1.5 mbps, with no b-frames or special options.

I've been doing the same thing with both WM9 and Xvid, both into avi files with ac3 sound. Today I tried playing both versions over a network with an 866 mhz P3.

Both play fine but it seems to pretty take about 80-85% for Xvid and about 94% on the WM9 version.

I'm just using the Xvid decoder from a recent Koepi release, no ffdshow or other filters involved.

- Tom

[midiguy]

just tried it in "2-pass vbr peak" mode.
All I get was an error message "parse error." for the 1st and 2nd pass. mehhhh

*edit*
running:
win xp sp1
matrox g400 32 mb
Pentium 3 600 mhz
128 mb sd ram

[marnum]

I get the same error when using VirtualDub Job list. I think this is why it's still beta.
Simply save as Avi without "add to Job list" enabled and it will work. The drawback is that you can't do both passes overnight.

[midiguy]

haha, I was just going to post that it is the job list.. you beat me to it!

yeah, I did the passes individually and it worked. I must say, the result is very very good.

I did the triple x trailer @ 650 kbps (video only) at 528 x 288 and I am very pleased with the outcome. I'm gonna try it @ 640 x 352 and report back, same bitrate.

*edit*, oh, forgot to mention, I used "2-pass vbr peak" mode, with a max (peak) bitrate @ 1365 kbps (which is 650 * 2.1)

[midiguy]

wow
@ 640 x 352, the result was awesome... to be honest, I didn't think this codec would do so well..

does anyone know if this decoder uses any post-processing? (there is no configurable decoder dialogue).

[Sirber]

I do 640x480 at 350kbps. What's the big deal?

[Emp3r0r]

I tested the WMV9 yesterday after I found a few problems with my XviD encode. I used VBR 2pass and the file came out just slightly bigger than the XviD encode. The quality was OK but the XviD encode was much much more pleasing to the eye. The WMV9 encode looked almost 100% of the time as if it was compressed, while the XviD encode showed maybe 20% of the time that it was compressed. Bitrates were around 800kbps and the resolution was 640x352. There was a few scenes that looked terrible in both XviD and WMV9. The scene had low contrast and not much color and it was a pan N-NE. The XviD looked better here except there was visual smearing from the edge of the pan. I'm tring DivX5.04 now to see who wins. If only RV9 worked in VirtualDub I'd give it a go too.

PS: the movie was "The Ring", very freaky oh and the scene I'm talking about is about an hour into it

I used Divx5 decoder with usually little to none postprocessing and I like using that film grain effect at about 60%. Maybe this is why the XviD didn't show as many compression artifacts

[marnum]

At the moment I'm encoding Memento at 1600 kb/s in WM9 and in XviD lastest unstable. For those who don't know it, it's a 2h medium-action movie with many close-ups. Report following tomorrow ;)

LanczosResize 720x304
FluxSmooth(3,3)

XviD:
ChromaMotion
VHQ=1
MPEG Custom (Andreas 78er)
QuarterPel
B-Frames 3,126,100
I-quants: 2-3
P-quants: 2-4

WM9:
Encoding 2-Pass, Average Bitrate
Performance-slider one click from the left

I also am a fan of perfect quality and so I usually encode the Xvids for my Notebook-HDD aimed at 2 CDs, even 3 if that isn't enough. That's why I cut the Quantizers - exact filesize isn't essential for me.

EDIT: As we want fair comparisons I'll reencode WM9 if XviD exceeds filesize, right?

[Didée]

Originally posted by Sirber
I do 640x480 at 350kbps. What's the big deal?
You can also do 1024x768 @ 200 kbps ... will look just the same to you, until you have consulted an optician.

:tired:

[midiguy]

there is a problem with using 350 kbps @ 640 x 480. when using rv9, just because you don't see pixels or noise doesn't mean that it is compressed well. instead, you will see blur and jumpies (on walls and such)..

[marnum]

Finished! There are some differences

1. Walls smear with xvid (I'll disable quarterpel next time)
2. WM9 blurs more and has less detail (due to postprocessing I think)
3. WM9 shows a little smearing line of ca. 5 pixels beneath the upper border (I had fast recompress enabled, maybe that's it?)

Fps:
Xvid: ~9
WM9: ~17

My opinion: Xvid simply looks better and gives more detail. As long as you can't adjust PP in WM9 it doesn't really make sense to use it.
EDIT @ The others around here: don't feel offended, I'm a HQ-fan ;)

[Emp3r0r]

Divx 5.04 Settings
Home Theater Profile
no psychovisual enchancements
max key interval: 220
File Size : 753324KB

XviD Settings Using Build Dated - 4/5/2003 10:17:50 AM
Posted Here (http://jvance.com/files/XvidSettings2.html)
File Size : 785229KB

WMV9 beta
Two-pass Bit rate VBR mode
key frame interval: 8000ms
performance: 80
File Size : 801328KB

The only one I watched from beginning to end was the XviD encode and I thought the quality was great. The others had good quality too. In fact, I think they all have acceptable quality yet they all have room for improvement. I think WMV9 and XviD clearly retain more details, although they did have a few more bits to do it with. XviD is more pleasing to the eye than WMV9 even though WMV9 can sometimes retain more details (see face screenshot). DivX tends to block on fast motion (possibly because of less bits) compared to the others (see scary screenshot). WMV9 won the underwater battle (see hand screenshot) with the least blocks, yet DivX5 retained slightly more detail here. If you'd like to view the screenshots yourself, they are available from the link below.

The Screenshots
Photoshop and broadband users need only apply.
Download this 3.57MB zip file (http://jvance.com/files/files.zip) (9 screenshots total)
Top Layer : XviD
Mid Layer : WMV9
Bot Layer : DivX

ps: no source frames included

[Sirber]

In the ZIP there is only 3 files... and ACDSee only show 1 per file. Did I miss something?

[Atamido]

Photoshop files can have several layers, and it allows you to show, or not show each one. ACDSee probably does not allow you to choose which layer(s) to view. Just go out and purchase (http://www.adobe.com/store/products/master.jhtml?id=catPhotoshop) a copy of Photoshop 7.0, right now only $609.... oh wait, nevermind.

[thop]

please someone tell me how to uninstall the WMV9 ACM :)

[marnum]

Sirber said it before:

A little format c: :D

Seriously:
I've got XP german, so I'll have to translate the terms :rolleyes:

Go to "Hardware/Device Manager" in "System Configurations", select "Audio- Video- and Gamecontroller", open "Videocodecs" and there you are. Select "Windows Media 9 Beta" and remove it.

[Sirber]

I didn't know that they where there... Windows is so complicated :devil:

[thop]

marnum: i tried that, it doesn't work. next time you open the videocodecs screen it is back.

[marnum]

Ah, yes :angry:

Seems as if Sirber was right :(

[outlyer]

Originally posted by Pamel
Photoshop files can have several layers, and it allows you to show, or not show each one. ACDSee probably does not allow you to choose which layer(s) to view. Just go out and purchase a copy of Photoshop 7.0, right now only $609.... oh wait, nevermind.The GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/win32/) can handle layers and photoshop files and it's free (and open source ;))

[Sirber]

Originally posted by outlyer
The GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/win32/) can handle layers and photoshop files and it's free (and open source ;))

and for linux? I prefer the complicated Windows :D

[celtic_druid]

There are win32 builds of GIMP.

[outlyer]

Originally posted by Sirber
and for linux? I prefer the complicated Windows :DUhmmm. It's available for Win (http://www.gimp.org/win32/) and for Linux (http://www.gimp.org/download.html).

EDIT:
oops, I didn't saw celtic_druid's post before replying...

[thop]

*BUMP (uninstall)

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Didée
You can also do 1024x768 @ 200 kbps ... will look just the same to you, until you have consulted an optician.

:tired:

Is that humour?

[marnum]

Guess it was supposed so...

Can anyone please tell me the optimum settings for the max. bitrate? With RealVideo you have to take avg. bitrate * 2,1. Is there also a formula for WMV9?

[bond]

any chance to ever see wmv9 vcm working on a non winxp/2000 system?

[mingcl]

We are investigating the possibility now and there is a good chance that we will support a few more OS's.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

[bond]

Would be great :)

[Sirber]

Originally posted by mingcl
We are investigating the possibility now and there is a good chance that we will support a few more OS's.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

Do you mean MacOS and Linux?

[slavickas]

Originally posted by Sirber
Do you mean MacOS and Linux?

no, probably Xenix :p :D ;)

[mingcl]

Sorry for the confusion. I really meant the downlevel OS's such as WinME, NT4, and Win98SE.

Ming
Microsoft

[phrentec]

is the windows media 9 screen codec going to be included in the vcm anytime soon? also how would one increase the brightness while playing a WMV9-VCM encoded video in mediaplayerclassic?

[Ramirez]

Regardless contents you're playing in mpc you can adjust default brightness/contrast levels in overlay control panel.

.P.S
I would really like to know why mingcl have decided to announce about final release of WMV9 vcm codec in AVI & DVD Players (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57114) section of this forum, I mean what's wrong with this tread?.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have to agree with Ramirez.

I would really like to know why mingcl have decided to announce about final release of WMV9 vcm codec in AVI & DVD Players section of this forum, I mean what's wrong with this tread?.

I would like to think that some of us here on the forum have played a small part contributing to the final release of WMV9 VCM.

It would have been rewarding to have had, even a link made on this section of the forum.

With that said, I have made a few encodes with the final release of the codec and as yet have found no improvements over the beta release (apart from now being able to function with Win98/ME OS's). However, it's still my favourite low bitrate codec.

Cheers

[phrentec]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Regardless contents you're playing in mpc you can adjust default brightness/contrast levels in overlay control panel.


how do i get to the overlay control panel? do i have to install/register something or enable it somehow? thanks.

[h9903209]

Originally posted by Ramirez
"Regardless contents you're playing in mpc you can adjust default brightness/contrast levels in overlay control panel."


Can you please tell me how where the overlay control panel is? I cannot find it in MPC...?

[Ramirez]

You can find these settings in your video card driver settings, depending on your card it might look differently,
in my case (Detonator drivers) it's located in Display Properties>Advanced>Geforce>Overlay Control
It's should be easy to locate these settings for ATI cards owners also.

[phrentec]

i meant if there was a way to change it from within the player like if you encode using divx5 and playback with the divx5 decoding filter it has an option to change to the brightness and contrast.

[h9903209]

thx, I understand now, but this is very troublesome...

I know one player has this convenient function, called Crystal Player, which can adjust brightness/contrast/saturation within player by just pressing some hotkeys.

I really hope MPC has this function too.

[Sagittaire]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57687

1)RV9 EHQ
2)WMV9 or DivX Kauehi
3)XviD

Sorry for XviD fan ... ;-)

[wing1]

use ffdshow -> Codec [x]raw video [x]overlay => you have all kind of controls at your finger tip in WMP64 for WMV9.

[h9903209]

Originally posted by wing1
use ffdshow -> Codec [x]raw video [x]overlay => you have all kind of controls at your finger tip in WMP64 for WMV9.

seems not working... don't know why... I have ticked use overlay mixer and overlay, but it still does not allow me to change the brightness/contrast, etc.

But the method of using geforce display driver to change does work.

[phrentec]

wing1, thanks it works! i didn't realize ffdshow had that feature. but still WM9-VCM should include it's own adjustable brightness decompressor settings.

[DarkFoon]

I use the WM 9 VCM in virtualdub on winME just fine with no problems.

slightly OT:
I have two WM9 files (a wma, and a wmv) that are wrapped in the aforementioned containers, and I can't seem to find any software that allows me to multiplex the video from the wmv and the audio from the wma, without needing to recompress.
Originally, the audio in the wma was supposed to be encoded with the video, but for some reason WME9 on my XP box doesn't like to encode the audio with the video (though it is supposed to) :angry:
I've wated 16 hours recompressing the video hoping that it would finally remember the audio, but no, it always forgets the audio (or it encodes X-number seconds of it and then stops)

[vsv]

For mux wma with wmv you need Windows Media Stream Editor (installed with WMencoder)

[DarkFoon]

i tried the stream editor first, but it won't let me put the two together.
perhaps I used it wrong? It put both files into seperate audiences and wouldn't allow me to put them together in the same audience.
looks like I'll have to re-encode again as video-only and audio-only...
thanks for the help

[DarkFoon]

nevermind, I muxed it with the stream editor. (took me awhile to get the hang of it)
thanks again.