DVD burners to replace a DVD-ROM drive

[Doom9]

As you may know, I recently purchased a Shuttle XPC (barebone computer) that has only one 5.25" slot so I need a drive that is good for everything. It has to fullfil the following criteria:
1) RPC-1 firmware must be available
2) Resonable CD burning performance (16x or higher for CD-R, 10x for CD-RW)
3) Reasonable CD reading speed and access time
4) Reasonable DVD reading speed including CSS encrypted dual layer DVDs (8x or more)

I guess I'm asking for the impossible but you never know. My trusty Pioneer 104 which I currently have in use writes CD-Rs slow as hell, doesn't do 4x DVDs and most importantly rips CSS encrypted DVDs at 2x speed (I used to have a Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM in my old PC so you know what performance I'm expecting when reading DVDs;)
I also have a Sony DRU-500A in my 2nd computer, and while it does 4x and writes CD-R/Ws at reasonable speed it only rips DVDs at 2x and there's no RPC-1 fimware yet. The situation is essentially the same for the Pioneer 105/A05, and at least the RPC situation is the same for every recent DVD±R/W drive but the firmware situation may change one day so the most important would be to have at least reasonable CD writing and DVD reading capabilities. Does anybody know a DVD burner that can go beyond reading encrypted DVD-9s at 2x speed?

[FranchiseJuan]

Have you considered having an external Drive trough the use of a USB2 or firewire connection on the shuttle?

[Doom9]

before you all swamp me with useless answers: I want to know if there's any DVD±R/W that comes close to my requirements.. nothing else. I know of dozens of alternatives myself. The main reason I started this thread is to find out if there are any DVD±R/W drives that rip at more than 2x speed. I know there's not much chance of finding a drive that does it all but chances of eventually getting a drive RPC-1 aren't that bad, yet get a firmware upgrade that increases your ripping speed, that has yet to happen.

[Prosper]

I don't know of any DVD drive, DVD-R, RW, or ROM that supports sustained 8x transfers from dual-layered discs, unless you're talking about the rated speeds, rather than the real-world ones

[Scipio]

Errm, I may post the results of my NEC-1100A burner:
Starts at 2,1x and tops out at 4,4x - this was seen when ripping 4,22 GB off a DVD-9. The whole process took about 15 minutes.

I don't want to destroy your hopes, but I guess you won't find the perfect drive in the near future. Fast CD Writing is possible soon, but the DVD reading/ripping (and also CD Reading) is a real pain with DVD writers. I for my part am still happy with my case, but like the idea of the Shuttle barebone, too. Since I've got my DVD Burner in an external Firewire/USB2 aluminium case (silver), it would perfectly match the Shuttle. As a CD-RW Drive I'd use the LG 48x/24x/48x/16x Combo-Drive (the 16x being the DVD Read-Speed) which fits the bill of a one-drive-solution pretty well. And with a "boxed" DVD-burner I'm more flexible anyway... but enough said. Only one thing: The LG combo drive goes for around 85 Euro... after my vacation next week, I'll order that from the internet and post DVD-Ripping results (since I'm not too sure what the 16x really yields with encrypted DVD-9).

good luck with waiting for the Godot of the DVD burners, though. :D

[int_53185]

HI been looking at a Toshiba DVD-R drive from next hardware shop for 168 dollars US. for my next system...rated at 10X for reading dvd's...the fastest ive seen for a burner.....good luck

[abbadon]

my toshiba sd-r5002 rips as high at 12x quite often at then end of a dual layer, though it all depends very heavily on the quality of the dvd. A brand new dvd will average around 8x for the whole rip, while an old scratched rental will often average 4x. I assume this is consistant for all dvd rips, as error correction comes into play with old discs. However, this drive is only 2x write at the moment, so that may limit you.

[Doom9]

well.. at least we already have 2 burners capable of going higher than 2x ripping so that's a start. I'm also wondering about recently released drives like the Plextor or Teac models.

[neuerkunde]

Here is a comparison of the toshiba sdr 5002 and the Pioneer a04/104.


http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/toshiba-sd-r5002/

greets iggi

[Charbax2]

I have a Shuttle Barebone SG-41, and I am REALLY planning on putting a Sony DRU 500AX in it. Ordering from europe I go on http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/
http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/
http://digitalpromo.co.uk/

to buy the drive and discs.. and some info about DVD-burners and discs on:

http://www.dvd-recordable.org/
http://www.disqworld.net/


I hope I'm not doing the wrong thing getting this Sony DVD-burner instead of the Pioneer 105.


I look forward to rip DVDs, hope Sony will release firmware to upgrade burning/ripping speeds in the future.


If anyone got some more clever info and links please post here.

[jsl]

Originally posted by Doom9
well.. at least we already have 2 burners capable of going higher than 2x ripping so that's a start. I'm also wondering about recently released drives like the Plextor or Teac models.

The Plextor is basically a rebadged NEC ND-1100 and so it has the same specifications (2x-5x CAV reading for CSS encrypted DVDs, average speed about 3.8x for single layer and 3.4x for dual layer).
The TEAC is a rebadged Pioneer so I assume it's limited to 2x ripping.

[Charbax2]

Does this mean that currently available DVD-burners rip DVDs slower than currently available DVD-ROM players on a PC?


Would one maybe expect Sony, Pioneer and the others soon to come with a DVD-burner that rips DVD faster and burns CDs as fast as the currently available CD-burners?


Has anyone heard of any possible faster than 4x DVD-burning technology that would come soon?


I hate to buy a Sony DVD-burner tomorrow and find out in 2 days Sony are comming with a new faster and cheaper model in one week..

[Scipio]

I have a Shuttle Barebone SG-41, and I am REALLY planning on putting a Sony DRU 500AX in it.

@ Charbax

Doom9 already owns Sony's DRU500A(X). And he isn't satisfied with it as a single all-in-one drive (mainly due to low ripping speed and no RC1 firmware available with the first being more important since it probably won't change).

So... basically, we still have no burner that fits the bill... :confused: The Toshiba with its very speedy 1x -RW doesn't look very impressive today with 4x +RW coming soon from Ricoh. Ricoh is also a nice company to buy optical drives from. Perhaps their 4x/4x DVD+R/W drive will have better dvd9 ripping capabilities.

[Ramirez]

Originally posted by Scipio

So... basically, we still have no burner that fits the bill... :confused: The Toshiba with its very speedy 1x -RW doesn't look very impressive today with 4x +RW coming soon from Ricoh. Ricoh is also a nice company to buy optical drives from. Perhaps their 4x/4x DVD+R/W drive will have better dvd9 ripping capabilities.
But aren't they all supposed to be hardware locked? (2x) I'm talking about this awful MPAA agreement.

[Doom9]

I have never heard anything like that. There's a more plausible explanation for the limitation (which incidentally only applies to encrypted DVDs). When you watch a DVD you don't want to be disturbed by a drive that spins up and down. So locking it may actually lead to a less noisy environment when watching movies (of course, most PCs make that much noise that this limitation has no effect because your GFX card/CPU/case fan will make so much noise that you'll hardly hear your DVD drive).
And btw the new Pioneer just got regionfree.. one step closer to the goal but we're not quite there yet. When is Toshiba going to release a 4x burner?

[Charbax2]

that the new Pioneer got regionfree, does that mean that there is somekind of unofficial firmware that makes it regionfree.


Can't one use the Sony DRU 500AX as a regionfree drive by just using DVD Genie or somekind of program like that?

[Charbax2]

ok I've been reading on

http://forum.rpc1.org/index.php

and

http://www.disqworld.net/


since my last post..

I still can't finsd out which is the DVD burner to get. Pioneer105 or SonyDRU500AX.

And all this about the new regionfree firmware for the Pioneer105.


I guess I am gonna wait until monday to find out which DVD-burner to invest in for my Shuttle BareBone.

I guess whatever Doom9 finds out to be the best I will want to have the same.

[Doom9]

charbax: when you want to rip DVDs from multiple regions RPC-1 is a must. So if you have a Shuttle and don't plan to use an external drive bay for a 2nd drive make sure you get a burner that can be made regionfree. Of course, many people only buy DVDs in the country or region of their origin so they are not restricted by that. You should consider that both Sony and Pioneer have a 2x ripping lock which is quite annoying. Currently it looks like that Toshiba burner is your best shot, the only drawback is that it can only write DVD-Rs at 2x speed.
If you just care to play back DVDs from other regions there are other solutions than an RPC-1 firmware (and all those firmwares are ALWAYS inofficial, drive manufacturers must make their drives region locked or they violate licensing agreements and could no longer sell their drives).
And now back to topic please.. what other burners are there that can rip at higher speeds?

[Mr Alien]

The Ricoh MP5125A will read encrypted DVD's faster than 2X, though it never gets near the 8x rating on the box (probably single layer rate). It does however get up to between 3.2x-3.5x on average, which reads a disk in about ~23 minutes. It can also burn +RW disks at 2.4x which is handy. But it's CD writing speed of 12x and 10x for the RW's is a little to slow (I've never used it for CD burning, I use my Lite-on 48x, so I can't tell you how well (quality) it writes them). As for region free, their is an RCP-1 patched bios available from The Firmware Page.
For the price, it's not a bad drive.

[Ramirez]

Originally posted by Doom9
I have never heard anything like that. There's a more plausible explanation for the limitation (which incidentally only applies to encrypted DVDs). When you watch a DVD you don't want to be disturbed by a drive that spins up and down. So locking it may actually lead to a less noisy environment when watching movies
That’s makes sense and I'd really like to believe that MPAA has nothing to-do with that lock, still I'd like the possibility to have some control over reading speeds. anyway have you seen this?>CeBIT 2003 Coverage < (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=CeBIT+2003+Show+Coverage&index=0) its looks like many interesting (and speedy) DVD burners will be released soon. Making them all RPC-1 it's just a matter of time.

[Navellint]

hi,
My Philips DVD+RW 228k has a max write speed of only 12x for cdr, but i think you'll want to consider it (who needs more anyway, when 12x is more reliable?). The burning is 2.4x for dvd+r/rw and ripping is 20x-70x (2.4x-27x i guess). The rpc1 f/w (1.51) is really easy and available too.
It has a slight problem reading some nashua/tdk cdr though. And you'll have to install a newer Nero than they ship with the drive (5.5.8.2). The rest is great.

LTR

[Scipio]

Speaking of upcoming drives, the Waitec Specs are great:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=CeBIT+2003+Show+Coverage&index=4


The "ACTION 4" model supports both DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW writing at 4x speed, and 12x DVD-ROM reading. The drive is also a 32/24/40 CD-RW recorder.


Mitsumi is also a good candidate in terms of Speed (both CDRW and DVD-ROM reading):

The DW 7800TE supports 4x DVD+R/RW writing and 16x DVD reading. of course the drive is a 40/32/40 CD-RW recorder as well.


another Update from Toshiba:


Toshiba demonstrated a new DVD-R/RW recorder. The SD-R5112 supports 4x DVD-R, 2x DVD-RW writing and 12x DVD-ROM reading. The drive also reads DVD-RAM discs at 2x, and DVD-R/RW at 4.8x. Concerning the CD format, the SD-R5112 is also a 16x/10x/40x CD-RW drive.

[Doom9]

their whole cebit coverage is actually newsworthy.. guess I should've gone to CeBit myself after all. Let's hope these recorders soon hit the market and some of them make up for a good allround drive.

[KickF]

well LiteOn is gona have their DVD+/-RW out soon ... ,and they are know to make REALY good CDRW ... I have One LTD-163 flashed to RPC1 and a LTR-40125s as burner ... I do a lot of 1:1 backups of my games and here it LiteOn KING ... I'm waiting for the LiteOn to have theyr DVD+/-RW out on the market , and then I'm gona buy one as soon as I can get my fingers on it ... If they make the DVDRW as good as they have made theyr CDRW and DVD-ROM's then I'm realy gona be pleased :)

the only problem I have now is that I may not have room for it in my pc :( I now have a P4 @ 2,26 ( gona oc soon as my watercooling is finished ) 2 x WD 80GB 8MB Cash and 1 x WD 80GB 2MB cash ( 2 on IDE , and one in RAID ) and the DVD-rom and the CDRW , I have don't have as many IDE slots that would like to ... but thanks foro RAID :) ... When I get my LiteOn DVD-/+RW I have :

1 lTD-163 (RPC1) (Master Sec. IDE)
1 LTR-40125s (Slave Sec. IDE)
1 WD 80GB ( 2MB ) (Master Pri. IDE)
1 WD 80GB SE ( 8MB ) (Slave Pri. IDE)
and Finaly 1 WD 80GB SE ( 8MB ) in RAID

,and in all this I'm gona put a LiteOn DVD+/-RW :sly:

Alot of cabels :mad: well well It have to do !!

I would wait for the LiteOn DVD+/-RW ... it may pay off ;)

( sorry for unnecessary talking :p )

Oh I forgot to say ... the Toshiba SD-R5002 is a very good drive ,but it does not do DVD-/+RW only -R ... the LiteOn is gona do both :D

[Charbax2]

Here is some discussion about Pioneer DVR-105 ripping times:

http://dvdxcopy.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/18750


Thanks to this thread here on doom9 forum, I decided to get a Pioneer DVR-105 right now, I hope it arrives tomorrow together with 50 Ritek G3 1x discs and 50 2x Datasafe O1ne discs.

[Doom9]

well.. you can see the quality difference between different dvd ripping boards ;) Most people there seem to not be able to even make the difference between a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner. PIO mode for a DVD-ROM and a DVD burner is quite something different and the 105 is speed-locked at 2x for CSS encrypted DVDs unless the firmware wizards are wrong (and I consider them just a tad more reliable and knowledgeable than the average dvdxcopy user).

[Xayd]

Longevity wise I've had very good luck with Toshiba DVD drives too Scipio. I've owned one, and have put about 10 in machines that I've built for friends and family, and not a one has failed. They're not Pioneer 106X fast, but they're fast enough and also very quiet.

Bottom line, the two top of the line IDE DVD ROM drives (and the one SCSI drive I know of that's still in production) are Pioneer and Toshiba, so I'd be very surprised to see the drive you're looking for come from anyone but those two companies or Lite On.

With Pioneer not putting much emphasis on read speed with their burners, /shrug, Toshiba may be your only hope ;).

[Doom9]

I used to have Toshiba drives.. until they introduced the 2x read lock for CSS encrypted DVDs in the SDM1512. Then I switched to Pioneer 116 which are sadly no longer sold (rather they sell some crap that they kick out of the catalog every half year and for which you won't find any RPC-1 firmware). Also, I managed to ruin a SDM1212 rather quickly in the old days.. the drive couldn't work in DMA mode anymore due to too many read errors (which degraded ripping performance to levels below 2x).. I assume this was due to the drive being overused (constantly reading cheap CD-Rs containing MP3 files whenever the PC was on).
There's some talk about removing that apparantly firmware imposed limit in the firmware forum.. let's hope the guys can pull it off.. such a firmware would sure be a sales booster for Pioneer (I suppose RPC-1 firmware already is, but the speed lock still forces you to have another drive or live with sub-par ripping performance).

[Xayd]

I never heard about the read lock they put in, last one I had was a 1402 maybe? I forget the model number but it was a 12x drive, 14-something. Either way that sucks :\.

I still use a spare for ripping too, but I'm in still in that stage that everyone is in when a new burning technology comes out, aka "don't-do-anything-to-wear-out-that-drive, use-the-other-one-those-cost-200-freakin-dollars!" -mode, hehe.

[Charbax2]

Mr. Doom9, WOW! they removed the ripping speed limit!


"Pioneer DVR-105 : RIPPING SPEED LIMIT REMOVED"


http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152406


http://forum.firmware-flash.com/viewtopic.php?t=12883




I finally get my Pioneer DVR-105 tomorrow, I might not wait many minutes after I get it to upgrade it's firmware to one of those hacked ones.

To burn 2speed on my Datawrite Yellows and rip DVDs at faster than 2speed.

[Doom9]

Yeah baby. The 105 will soon be found in my precious Shuttle XPC. This is indeed a very strong sales argument. When I started this thread I was laughed at in some places, now look where we are :sly:

[kilg0r3]

Is there any difference between the pioneer A05 and the 105 modell?

[Scipio]

the more expensive one is - suprise, suprise - the "retail" one (with software). The hardware is as far as I know identical.

[Ramirez]

Very interesting tread at Cdfreaks >> Retail vs. OEM (http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57113).

[brashquido]

What ripping speeds are people getting now with the hacked firmware? I know PC specs will come into play, but just wanting to know a ballpark figure so I can decide if it's worth it.

[kilg0r3]

What are your experiences so far with the the pioneer A05 and the 105 modells? I read some really nasty things about this drive, like producing bad discs where its predecessor mkeas good ones. The guy reporting this problem claimed that he used the same media and the same data for his test.

[brashquido]

I've used only Pioneer and Apple media and haven't had one fail yet.

[kilg0r3]

Does anybody know at which speed the nec 1300 can rip and if it has any drawbacks against the Pioneer 105?

[MvB]

My 1300a starts with ca. 3MB/s and gets up to 6,5 MB/s on encrypted dvds.

[kilg0r3]

I have read different statements about this so I repeat the question: Is the Is Pioneer's dvr-105 / A05 able to read DVD+R(W) Media?

[Sharro]

Why didn't I read this thread b4 ?

Next week I will receive my order:

Shuttle SB61G2
P4 2.8 FSB800
2 x 512 MB DDR 400
HD Western Digital WD1200JB = 120GB 8mb buffer
ATI All-in-wonder 9700 pro
Sony DRU 500 A -> Forum reading would have saved on this 1

But a little OT... Doom9 are you happy with your shuttle ?

And a little OT again... what monitor do you use?

All the best,


Sharro

[Scipio]

Just read some good reviews...

e.g.:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=Pioneer%20DVR-A05&Series=0



your question is answered on page 3, here:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Specific.asp?ArticleHeadline=Pioneer+DVR%2DA05&Series=0&index=3


The Pio A05 can read +R/W far better than -R/W.

[kilg0r3]

Yep, I already had read that article. But there was another who claimed the opposite. Don't remember the url sorry ...