Easy, quality, backups with IC7.

[jaagee]

There are many different threads in this forum describing how to make backups of your DVD's. I guess it all boils down to how much time and effort you are willing to put into this process.

The process that I use is based on a thread I read in here some time ago, I believe from MisterX. I have been using a 7.5 % and 8% method and have not had even 1 movie not record great and not under 4.1 GB. Most movies are coming in at 4.3 GB :D.

First, I rip using DVD Decrypter in File mode. (Select All)
Then I open IC7 and point it to the directory just ripped to.

Now in IC7, I go to the "customize disk" screen and the "Video" tab. I add 7.5 % to each and every item in the list except the main movie title (usually Title 1). I even add 7.5 % to the menu. I do not uncheck anything. At the main movie, (Title 1) I add 8% to this. After doing all of this, make sure you write down the end result "Data Size" of the movie. ( Using a calculator makes this process painless ;) )

I then go to the "Subtitles" tab and de-select all sub titles (I don't use them anyway). I go to the "Audio" tab and de-select all of the audio items checked except for the 1st one in the list.

Now that all of this has been completed, write down the "Data Size" again. You will notice that the data size has been decreased by the removal of the subtitles and the un-need audio tracks. Subtract these 2 numbers.

Now go back to the "Video" tab and take the number from above step and add it to the "transcoded size" of the movie. You will do this by taking the slider bar and adjusting it to the right until you have reached the number required. Now if you look at the 1st Data Size file that you wrote down after increasing the titles 7.5% and the main movie to 8%, the "data size" file will be the same. In this step you have increased the quality of the main movie by the amount of the unneeded sub-titles and the un-needed audio tracks.

Then I hit the F5 button and click OK and the movie processes and burns in one simple step. In 4 hours, I have a perfect copy of my DVD. I have used this method over a dozen times and have had great success. The movie generally is running at about 68% to 78% which is very good quality and I have a complete backup of my movie including all menus and extras.

There are many different ways to acheive a very good backup and with some of the methods described in this forum you can get a DVD-R to it's maxed capacity if you are willing to take a few extra steps and have the time to do it.

I have choosen this method because with just a few steps and no extra time I can write a DVD-R copy that is very good quality just by letting IC7 perform the task it was designed to do.

Jaagee

[jdobbs]

When you say you add 7.5% to each movie -- does that mean you move the slider (for instance) from 45% to 52.5% -- or does it mean you increase the size by 7.5% (so 45 + (45*.075)= 48.375)?

Using the first definition and the steps you've provided on a DVD I'm trying to backup, I've found that my predicted DVD size is 4.79GB -- are you saying I should leave it there?

[MackemX]

yep, 8% is the figure I quoted ages ago, but as for extras after recording results for over 20 DVD's this can be anything as it depends highly on the content of the Title, this also goes for menus!

my method is slightly different

I always get around 4.25-4.40 and just adjust it on the 2nd run with minimal fuss. If I have a few extras I overestimate as I can always take a little of this after

firstly ignore the slider bar and any predicted sizes

go through the Titles checking all the correct audio and subs are selected as sometimes it misses some

adjust your menu to your preferred level of quality (mines normally 60%) and then adjust every other Title to the % you want (again mine is normallly 60%, 50% is movie is large) but leave the main movie Title for now

after setting all the rest up, you can now concentrate on setting the main movie title

adjust the % on the main movie title and slide the % bar so you get a predicted total size of 4.32Gb

make a note of the total transcoded video size for all Titles (the figure outside the brackets!), but don't include any at 100% settings

eg.
total transcoded of 7 Titles is 3.71(4.37+audio)

so 8% of 3.71 is just under 0.3Gb, so you can now add this to the 4.37 giving 4.67Gb

you can see how you are adding 0.05Gb(4.37-4.32)and 0.3Gb addition which is a total 0.35Gb that would have probably resulted in a file around 4Gb (4.37-0.35) if you don't add this extra

If you have loadsa extras that you can use afterwards then use an adjustment of 8%, but use 7% if you only have a couple or not much for adjustments. 7.5% is normally ok for most. The more extras normally the wilder the outcome

using this method means you get the most quality for your movie with your preferred menu/extras quality. If the movie % is still low after adjusments before you process then just start again and take a few % of each of the extra titles

you can always refer to the sizing guide in the link below and it's always a help if you note settings etc before processing so you can use them after if need be. Stuff is in guide to do this

hope you can understand what I trying to explain :D, just ask if it ain't clear enough

[jaagee]

Originally posted by jdobbs
When you say you add 7.5% to each movie -- does that mean you move the slider (for instance) from 45% to 52.5% -- or does it mean you increase the size by 7.5% (so 45 + (45*.075)= 48.375)?

Using the first definition and the steps you've provided on a DVD I'm trying to backup, I've found that my predicted DVD size is 4.79GB -- are you saying I should leave it there?

Exactly! In your example, 45 Mb, you would multiply 45 * 7.5% which would give you the amount of 48.37 MB. You would then move the slide bar to the right until the new transcoded size equals 48.37. Do each and every title this way and also the menus. On the main movie title, title1, you would use the 8% instead of the 7.5 %. Then drop off the unneeded audio's and subtitles and add that amount back to the the main movie file (title 1).

The ending result will be a predicted file which is usually above 4.58 GB and when the burn process is completed you will have a DVD-R of about 4.3 GB.

Hope this helps!

jaagee

[jaagee]

Originally posted by MisterX
yep, 8% is the figure I quoted ages ago, but as for extras after recording results for over 20 DVD's this can be anything as it depends highly on the content of the Title, this also goes for menus!


You are the man! No doubt about it. I do understand your process and I agree that you could be getting closer to the max capacity by doing a second run. However, I disagree somewhat with the above statement. Only in the fact that reguardless of the size of the original movie files, IC7 is designed to compress the overall total to 4.31 GB. The larger the original movie the more the compression and the smaller the movie the less the compression. Either a large movie or a small movie will be compressed to 4.31 GB. With that little bit of understanding, and using the 7.5% & 8% method, you will always get real close to 4.31 GB because you are adjusting the compression rate that IC7 had already determined that it needed for your specific movie.

Now we all understand that Pinnacle built in a safety margin so that a reported size of 4.31 GB would fit on one DVD-R with room to spare. This safety margin is completely unneccessary and does afford us with inferior quality backups. Burning a 4.31 GB backup and getting a 3.60 GB backup is NOT acceptable. Your 7.5%, 8% method offsets this safety margin to a point that is completely acceptable.

Let me know what you think!

jaagee

[Allistah]

Cool man, thanks for the info jaagee. I'm trying your method right now with Band of Brothers Disc 1. Using your method, the predicted ended up being 4.52gb on the slider. One thing I'm unsure of is the settings in the registry for DVDAnalyzeMaxRel, DVDAnalyzeMinAbs, and DVDSaveQuality will affect the final size. What do you have those settings set as when you use your process? Mine are 16, 16, and 0 for save quality. I'll post back when I'm done with the results.

-Allistah

[Allistah]

Band of Brothers D1 just finished. As in my previous post, the predicted value in IC ended up being 4.52gb and when IC was finished doing its thing, I ended up with an iso that was 4.30 GB (4,623,953,920 bytes) in size. I'd call that DAMN close.

Excellent work! Thanks for the method! Now I'm off to try this on a few more.. hehe I'll again report my findings after I've done a few.

-Allistah

[MackemX]

Originally posted by jaagee
You are the man! No doubt about it. I do understand your process and I agree that you could be getting closer to the max capacity by doing a second run. However, I disagree somewhat with the above statement. Only in the fact that reguardless of the size of the original movie files, IC7 is designed to compress the overall total to 4.31 GB. The larger the original movie the more the compression and the smaller the movie the less the compression. Either a large movie or a small movie will be compressed to 4.31 GB. With that little bit of understanding, and using the 7.5% & 8% method, you will always get real close to 4.31 GB because you are adjusting the compression rate that IC7 had already determined that it needed for your specific movie.

Now we all understand that Pinnacle built in a safety margin so that a reported size of 4.31 GB would fit on one DVD-R with room to spare. This safety margin is completely unneccessary and does afford us with inferior quality backups. Burning a 4.31 GB backup and getting a 3.60 GB backup is NOT acceptable. Your 7.5%, 8% method offsets this safety margin to a point that is completely acceptable.

Let me know what you think!

jaagee

:D, I've always said the bigger the ACTUAL total movie file the larger the error, and believe me when I say the extras can sometimes be way out. The worst example I have had is one extra Title in the Grinch somewhere in the region of 200MB with a setting of 50% and IC reduced it by 5MB!, so it was over 0.09Gb out just on one Title

look at this PAGE (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/GUIDE/filesize.htm), it has an excel sheet were you record the settings and it tells you the accuracy of IC for that Title when you input all the relevant data. i can also say that series DVD's have a smaller margin of error due to them containing the same video info, so it's better to use a 6% margin

this is the post where I asked out about the 8% difference HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46850) a few weeks back

also you should aim for 4.37, so what if you go over by a few MB, it onlt take 10mins to fix if you have the extras but then you have a DVD with the highest quality posssible full to the brim

good work jaajee as I never really looked into which video Titles were affected the most, and I will try your methods and mine and see if they come up with the same filesize answer next time I use IC as I may think yours may be ok

probably on BOB like Allistah has cos I was one of the lucky ones who got the Tin version for £15 from EMpire Direct :D

i'll come back with results

[Allistah]

So if I do this method and I'm a bit over, all I do is run it through IC again and set everything to 100% except for the extras that I dial down a bit to reach the desired size?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by Allistah
So if I do this method and I'm a bit over, all I do is run it through IC again and set everything to 100% except for the extras that I dial down a bit to reach the desired size?

yep!

all in the guide

HERE (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/GUIDE/2big.htm)

[Allistah]

One other thing, if you could answer.. I'm deleting those two data files so that it does a 5 phase pass on start every time. So once I do it for the dvd and say I want to do the dvd all over again, should I delete those files and go through it all over again or can I leave them?

[MackemX]

just leave em and it will skip the analysis phase if you do a quicker 2nd run

I would only ever delete them if you get problems cos I ain't had any but some people have and also prefer to do a new analysis

[Allistah]

Right before I read your post about just doing a 2nd pass and dialing down some extras, I deleted everything. :-( I started the whole process over again. heh. Owell. Lesson learned.