New Tool: DoCCE4U

[BBWoof]

The problem with the Win2K registry not being read should be fixed in the latest version.

The two are already somewhat integrated. DIF4U can create a CCEData.txt file which can be loaded into DoCCE4U and will automatically set up the jobs for a dvd rip.

I think the future integration process will be, rip the entire disk with DIF4U, use ReAuthorist to determine the bitrates for extras and main movie VTSs and sent that info to DoCCE4U. On completion of the encodes, ReAuthorist will create a .scp file which can be imported into Scenarist for quick reauthoring.

BBWoof

The latest version of DoCCE4U is available at http://www.padme.co.uk/software/DoCCE4U.1.0.0.3.exe

[ShaneZ]

well, i just got the new version and checked it out. thanks for getting that reg problem fixed. now everything works fine with my win2k machine.

keep up the good work ;)

[ShaneZ]

well, tonite i finally got to sit down and really use DoCCE4U and i have to say that it makes encoding hella easier.

I did run into one problem installing a fresh copy of the newest version. it seems to have hard-coded the location of cce at

C:\PROGRAM FILES\NEW TECHNOLOGY\CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER SP\CCTSP.EXE

or something very similiar and it would not allow me to change the executable directory when i was in File->Settings. i could click on browse, but nothing would happen. On the other hand, on my main encoding machine, with a previous version installed had no problems with it what so ever.

also, an option to set the filename of the executable would be nice so some of us don't have to go copying or renaming files if our encoder is something other than cctsp.exe.

last but not least, when i try to import a file list from a text file it crashes on me. are there some control codes or something its looking for and i am not passing it causing it to choke?

so far, those are my only complaints. your front-end saves a lot of time and makes it a lot easier to do batches of files without having to worry about editing lots of ecl files.

:)

[BBWoof]

I put the path to the exe to the default install location, but figured that it could be changed as necessary. This may be another issue with the registry in win2K not liking the program. When you click the browse button, does it come up with a file open dialog?

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

If there is anyone out there that's running 95/98, I'd really appreciate a test in those OS's.

BBWoof

[ShaneZ]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I put the path to the exe to the default install location, but figured that it could be changed as necessary. This may be another issue with the registry in win2K not liking the program. When you click the browse button, does it come up with a file open dialog?

BBWoof

no, like i said, when i hit browse it didn't pop up the open file dialog. its not a complaint actually, i work around most problems ;) the way i look at it, if people are at a level they can use the software, they should be able to fix their own problems if they are obvious. that's just me ;)

other than some minor issues, you're software works great. i had it going on two huge batches of files on two different machines just to test it out and it seems to have ran with no probs on both.

thanks for a good tool

=)

[JOJOLINO]

If I klick the browse button there come the message "Out of memory"

OS is XP without service pack 1

[BBWoof]

Version 1.0.0.4 has just been released. You can get it on http://docce4u.panthersden.com it should fixt the directory browsing problem.

BBWoof

[matt-o]

FYI
I just tried to check it out on WIN98 installed 1.0.0.4 and got the same error message as 1.0.0.3 when installing Registry editor complains Can not import c:\.... default templates.reg: the specified file is not a registry script. you can only import registry files.

[BBWoof]

I can have that problem fixed in the next version. Right now I import a registry snippet into the registry. Obviously it's not compatible with the win95/98 registry. I'll hard code it into the installation program or the program itself.

BBWoof

[SVCD4Me]

First and foremost, BBWoof, excellent tool!!

My question is, would there be any advantage to doing a 1 Pass VBR with CCE creating a VAF as opposed to a 2 Pass VBR?

If a 2 Pass VBR is the same as a 1 Pass VBR w/VAF creation, then I guess it doesn't matter.

If creating a VAF in CCE is better, can you add that option?

I'm asking this because normally I use DVD2SVCD to re-encode my DVD video (if needed) before re-authoring and I always use 1 Pass VBR and check the "Create VAF" option on the Encoder tab. I just figured out how to re-encode my SVCD MPG's for DVD and started using the DVD2AVI/CCE method. I don't see the "create VAF" option in CCE when just using DVD2AVI/CCE, so I was wondering... Any idea?

Thanks again.

/edit/
Well it seems that today it is doing a VAF file first. Perhaps there was something wrong because I added 4 jobs yesterday and the first 1 started with just the MPV on a 2 pass VBR. Both the 1st and 2nd one apparently failed because 3 and 4 have perfect videos along with a VAF and 1 and 2 don't have anything in the directory. I just restarted the first 2 and all seems well as it is on the VAF now.
Is there a log file anywhere? I can't seem to copy the log info.
/edit/

jb

[dgwak]

Also, CCdata DoitFast4U creates makes all CCE operations 5 passes. I think that is an overkill for especially extras. Is there any option in DoCCE to change that other than one by one?

In addition, how does DoCCE know whether or not the film is progressive, linear, or zigzag? Do they matter at all?

Thanks for your great work.

[ryangs]

One small bug I encountered... when browsing for the source file, it doesn't show .avi's, only .avs files. I have to type in *.avi and hit enter to get it to show AVIs.

Otherwise, awesome program. :D

[SVCD4Me]

@ryangs-

I believe this program was created to help people re-encode DVD's, Not avi's. The majority use DVD2AVI to do this, which creates AVS files not AVI.

I would hardly call that a bug. Maybe the thoughtful creator of this do-it-for-you should call it "docce4u if it uses avs files"...

[ryangs]

Originally posted by SVCD4Me
@ryangs-

I believe this program was created to help people re-encode DVD's, Not avi's. The majority use DVD2AVI to do this, which creates AVS files not AVI.

I would hardly call that a bug. Maybe the thoughtful creator of this do-it-for-you should call it "docce4u if it uses avs files"...

:confused:

http://mail.chartermi.net/~ryangs/docce4u1.jpg
Look! It says it's supposed to be showing avi's but it isnt.

http://mail.chartermi.net/~ryangs/docce4u2.jpg
After typing in *.avi, it shows avis. It opens these avis and encodes them without problem.

Now is this not a normal behavior or am I missing something here?

[SVCD4Me]

Well since you put it that way...

My apologies. I should have checked the "specs" before replying.

[BBWoof]

But I've been busy with my nose to the keyboard creating a new release, 1.0.0.5 is out and can be found here http://docce4u.panthersden.com :cool:

There are a number of things that have been fixed. I've moved the pulldown functions into a c++ class and included it in the main apps code. There is no longer a need to run a secondary program. I've readded a minimize button, which instead of minimizing to a button on the taskbar, goes instead to a notification icon. RoBa encoding has been moved back to a Multipass vbr instead of 1Pass then Multipass (the reason is in the CCE manual, I swear ).

@ryangs

Thanks for pointing out the problem (bug) :) with the open file dialog. I'll make sure that gets fixed in the next version. As far as I understand, if you're source is an avs file that's been decombed, then it's progressive, and I don't see why anyone would let CCE operate on the interlaced source when decomb does a better job. And from what I've read here in these forums, I believe that the scanning order should always be set to zig zag. (If I'm wrong on any of my assumptions, please let me know, I take any and all assumption corrections I can get!)

@dgwak

That's a setting that needs to be added to DoItFast4U. Right now I open the CCEData.txt file and modify in a text editor. We're still working on the integration of the two programs, and the CCEData.txt file will soon be expanded to include more settings.

@SVCD4Me

I've switched the program back to doing a Multipass vbr for the RoBa method. In the CCE manual, it states that during a multipass vbr the first pass is run as either a CBR or 1Pass vbr to check the complexity of the source. So as I see it, there is no reason for a 1Pass then multipass. Also, I've modified the program so that when in RoBa mode, it deletes any existing vaf file so that it will be recreated.

Next version plans:

I'll be adding a quality setting and changing the name of quality to qfactor which is what it realy is.

Future versions:

A template editor. The ability to add around 35 custom templates.

Thanks to everyone who is trying out the program. It is nice to write something that people actually use.

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
But I've been busy with my nose to the keyboard creating a new release, 1.0.0.5 is out and can be found here http://docce4u.panthersden.com/download/DoCCE4U.1.0.0.5.zip :cool:

Cool indeed.

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

[BBWoof]

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

As I understand it, to be DVD Compliant, the mpeg2 stream needs to be marked with a 9800KBits/s bitrate. If I do this in DoCCE4U, audio tracks won't import properly in scenarist if there are multiple or large audio tracks.

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
As I understand it, to be DVD Compliant, the mpeg2 stream needs to be marked with a 9800KBits/s bitrate. If I do this in DoCCE4U, audio tracks won't import properly in scenarist if there are multiple or large audio tracks.

So... maybe you could make this a selectable option for those of us not using Scenarist? ;)

[ryangs]

I had a few other ideas why DVD workshop might not recognize it as compliant (in other words, it's probably not DoCCE4u or CCE's fault):

1) It's 24 fps (film) instead of 29.97 fps (NTSC)

2) According to DVD workshop's file properties screen, it's Field B instead of Field A (an m2v file I created with the Adobe MPEG Encoder is field A and is recognized as compliant by DVD Workshop)

Does this sound reasonable? Maybe it's time to upgrade from DVD Workshop.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
[B]1) It's 24 fps (film) instead of 29.97 fps (NTSC)


This could definitely be a problem. Is it actually 24fps, or is it 23.976? You should be able to run pulldown on it to get it back up to 29.97


2) According to DVD workshop's file properties screen, it's Field B instead of Field A (an m2v file I created with the Adobe MPEG Encoder is field A and is recognized as compliant by DVD Workshop)


Not really sure what Field A and Field B mean unless thats the Top Field First setting.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
So... maybe you could make this a selectable option for those of us not using Scenarist? ;)

Eventually you should will be able to modify everything in the templates and even create more.

BBWoof

[Eyes`Only]

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

To put it bluntly: AS A PRECAUTION, NEVER ENABLE THAT CHECKBOX!

Why you may ask? Because that checkbox forces the max video bitrate to 9800, overriding your VBR max bitrate setting. Documented in the CCE Manual page 29-30:

If DVD complient is selected, instantaneous
bitrate in GOP units is controlled to be a maximum of 9.8 Mbps. During VBR operation, 9.8 Mbps is always written to the sequence
header regardless the specified maximum bitrate. 9.8 Mbps is
the maximum bitrate allowed under the DVD standard. 9.8 Mbps is
used here because in the case of the VBV model in VBR, bit allocation
planning by the encoder becomes more flexible as the maximum bitrate
becomes higher, therefore higher image quality can be achieved.

Now note, you'll get away with checking that checkbox if you only use one audio stream, since the specs of DVD say that the total bitrate of your video/audio/subs can be 1.08.

"DVD-Video can sustain transfer rates of 10.08 Mbps, maximum, for video and audio together. However, the DVD Specification limits the maximum bit rate for MPEG-2 video to 9.80 Mbps or less."--Scenarist Manual (this is not a Scenarist spec, this is a quote of the Global DVD Specs.)

Since your DVD Video will be 9800, and your audio stream will probably be 448 max (DD5.1 usually is) the total bitrate of your VTS will be around 10248, and the subs use a small amount of bitrate too, which is well within the limits. However if you use ANY quality DVD authoring app (Maestro, Scenarist, etc) that allows more than one audio stream, you're going to possibly see your bitrate go over the max allowed (do the math), and your authoring app will balk and refuse to compile.

Anyways, the bottom line is that there's really only 2 things 'DVD Compliance' does. Make sure your video is the correct resolution (not a problem since you ripped it directly off the DVD!) and override your max bitrate setting. Don't use it. If you really want your max bitrate to be 9800 (can't see why you would, normal retail DVDs rarely are encoded above 7000!) just set it manually and leave DVD Compliant unchecked.

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
Is it actually 24fps, or is it 23.976? You should be able to run pulldown on it to get it back up to 29.97

It's actually 23.976. I really want to leave it as film instead of converting it back to NTSC again. Perhaps I need to change it to 24 exactly? (As you can tell, I'm new to this!)

Also, thanks for the tip, Eyes`Only!

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
It's actually 23.976. I really want to leave it as film instead of converting it back to NTSC again. Perhaps I need to change it to 24 exactly? (As you can tell, I'm new to this!)

I'm curious why you would want to leave it at 24 fps?

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I'm curious why you would want to leave it at 24 fps?

I must be missing an important concept here. It's film material, and I want to leave it progressive scan, so shouldn't I leave it 24fps? Isn't this how a commercial DVD would do it, and isn't this better for compressability?

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
I must be missing an important concept here. It's film material, and I want to leave it progressive scan, so shouldn't I leave it 24fps? Isn't this how a commercial DVD would do it, and isn't this better for compressability?

No, because of the way that televisions work, professional dvds are telecined to 29.97 fps. If you've encoded it, then you've already compressed it. All the pulldown process does is set some flags within the mpeg2 stream to add another frame by interlacing two frames.

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
No, because of the way that televisions work, professional dvds are telecined to 29.97 fps. If you've encoded it, then you've already compressed it. All the pulldown process does is set some flags within the mpeg2 stream to add another frame by interlacing two frames.

BBWoof

D'oh! I see. It just sets some flags to have the MPEG2 decoder do the pulldown. Got it. Thanks!

[Mikel]

After using the new version of DoitFast4U, I made up my mind to try DoCCE4U.
For some reason it does not seem to work at for me.
I use version 2.5 of CCE.

What happens is that after i want to start the Job, the open ECL window appears and the process stops.
I can manually select the ECL file (which should happen automatically right?) and then encoding starts.
After encoding, the next file is not started and DoCCE4U just hangs with 100% of CPU-usage.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Cheers

Mikel

[BBWoof]

I think I need to rewrite how the program locates the load ecl window. I have an idea how to fix it and it'll be in the next release.

[Mikel]

Great BBWoof

I am looking forward to it.

Cheers

Mikel

[d4g]

hi ive been doing the dof4u process and docce tooo


welll in the docce process it does all the pgcs ok but when it gets to the vob one cce encoding freezes does anyone know why on my other machine it encodes fine.......but havent tried the vobid version but i think it shouldnt matter its just the file name has been change to vo2 not po2

does anyone know why it freezes...

[d4g]

docce4u doesnt read the ccedata.txt file properly....

it makes all encodes at 4.3 even if the movie is 16.9


can u look into this and also it has some speed issues as welll cce....its not as fast as when u run cce on its own with the same setting...i get on my 1800 xp rig 10.30 when iu run it on stand alone its runs 1200 and higher.....

and aslo as for my last post it does the pgc encoding withpout freezing but when i use vobid stripping cce encoding freezes im trying to figure out why....
by the way these programs rock !!!!!

Denis T

[Eyes`Only]

I've noticed this too.. and I've told BBWoof about it, but more people that are seeing the same thing can't hurt. :)

It's still a great program, but for now I'd suggest not using the 'start docce4u' feature of doitfast4u, just set it to 'open docce4u' so you can adjust the aspect ratios automatically.

Oh and there's a 'cce timer interval' feature in the settings that tells docce4u how long to wait before checking the cce window. I've found that if I put it high enough (I put mine on 20 seconds currently, it's probably overkill but what the heck!) then the CCE speed increases a bit. It still never reaches the speed it should though, but BBWoof is looking into that.

[d4g]

yes it is a great program you figured out anything but the freezing

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Just want to download DoCCE4U.

But Your page showas only "Woof Software" and the 1.0.0.5 isn´tavailable for download.

Only version I can download is 1.0.0.3.

[Doom9]

www.doom9.org might just have what you're looking for.. try searching the news or the full software page ;)

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Oh, I only visit doom9.de for news in this case.
And it linked to bbwoof´s homepage.

I have the tool now, thanks doom9. ;)

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
welll in the docce process it does all the pgcs ok but when it gets to the vob one cce encoding freezes does anyone know why on my other machine it encodes fine.......but havent tried the vobid version but i think it shouldnt matter its just the file name has been change to vo2 not po2

does anyone know why it freezes...

If I understand right, it's freezing when it does this after being ripped by VobID?

It doesn't seem to me like there should be a difference.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
docce4u doesnt read the ccedata.txt file properly....

it makes all encodes at 4.3 even if the movie is 16.9


can u look into this and also it has some speed issues as welll cce....its not as fast as when u run cce on its own with the same setting...i get on my 1800 xp rig 10.30 when iu run it on stand alone its runs 1200 and higher.....


That seems to be a bug with the program only when you load the CCEData.txt file. I'm looking into what might be causing it.

BBWoof

[d4g]

i figured out the freezing problem with cce i couldnt even load the avs script in cce so its an install fault of cce but on my other rig its fine....


the onlyt bug i can see is just when the cce.txt file is laoded that it doesnt read it properly and makes all encodes at 4.3 even when its 16.9

but apart from that the program rocks i did my first movie took me a while to understand the steps but mate i call that a back up

i did training day and it was perfecto..... congrads to u and eyes for these rocking software....

!!!!!

D

[hakko504]

Originally posted by BBWoof
@ryangs

Thanks for pointing out the problem (bug) :) with the open file dialog. I'll make sure that gets fixed in the next version. As far as I understand, if you're source is an avs file that's been decombed, then it's progressive, and I don't see why anyone would let CCE operate on the interlaced source when decomb does a better job. And from what I've read here in these forums, I believe that the scanning order should always be set to zig zag. (If I'm wrong on any of my assumptions, please let me know, I take any and all assumption corrections I can get!)
When you have a nice format like MPEG-2 that can handle interlaced video properly, there is no point in destroying video data by deinterlacing it. True deinterlacing is only needed for formats like AVI that are intended for viewing on computer ONLY, whereas MPEG-2 is created for TV, which uses interlacing natively. What CCE does when you enable the interlaced option is just to encode each field separately, effectively making the video 720x288@50fps (PAL) instead of 720x576@25fps. BUT a lot of PAL videos are not interlaced, even though it looks that way. Instead they have fields shifted 1 step, from the correct 1t1b 2t2b 3t3b 4t4b ... sequence to 1t2b 2t3b 3t4b 4t5b ... This can be corrected with telecide(guide=2,post=false) and that is the only deinterlacing that should be applied to PAL material when doing MPEG-2. Then there is a lot of horrible NTSC2PAL conversions with blended fields and up to 4 ghost images in every frame, but those are also impossible to do anything about. Oh, and true interlaced material cannot be processed with most AviSynth filters, as they assume progressive input. Horizontal resizing is OK though.

There have been some fuss in the AviSynth forum about v2.5x not handling interlaced video quite correctly, so at the moment you should recommend the use of v2.08 for any interlaced video.

[BBWoof]

Help me out here. :) My brain works slowly. I'm doing a major revision and if PAL folkes want me to add a control to enable the interlace, I'm happy to do that.

BBWoof

[Eyes`Only]

hakko,

So you're saying DoItFast4U would get better output by using telecide(guide=2,post=false) for PAL deinterlacing instead of FieldDeinterlace()? The Decomb readme states, "Do not use Telecide on streams that do not contain telecined progressive frames, such as pure interlaced video."

[hakko504]

No, I'm saying a lot of progressive PAL material looks interlaced, but isn't and in those cases you should use Telecide(guide=2,post=false). In all other PAL cases NOTHING should be done at all. True interlaced material should be left that way, and encoded in CCE as interlaced.

If you have a FTP I can send you a few clips to show you what I mean.

[Eyes`Only]

No, I don't have an FTP, unfortunately, and my website takes all the available space I'm allotted so I can't use that.

From what I've heard/seen, PAL extras are usually interlaced though. And many seasoned transcoders tell me that keeping those extras interlaced looks a lot worse than converting them to progressive at the same bitrate. Apparently interlaced video takes a higher bitrate to achieve quality and of course, we do our extras at 1750-2000 usually.

[hakko504]

Now, I can understand your last comment, that interlaced video requires a little higher bitrate to achieve same quality. That's really quite obvious as the motion search algo's don't have the same areas to search through, and the blocks are larger (not in muber of pixels, but area covered by those pixels).
But for a PAL feature that's interlaced (like BlackAdder) I'm quite certain that the loss in quality from deinterlacing is much larger that the loss of quality from encoding as two fields instead of one frame. Deinterlacing is just a trick for making video more fluent on the computerscreen and shouldn't be used for TV.
Extras is another thing though, here all tricks to save space are valid as they are much less important than the main feature.
To make this work I think you should make deinterlacing optional, even on PAL sources.
And we shouldn't forget that there is a lot of material shot on progressive that has been mastered as interlaced, with incorrect fielding (like I described in my last post) where a frame in the DVD is constructed from two nearby fields of the original FILM (like swedish editions of Life Of Brian, E.T. and the Spiderman release mentioned in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49467). And it is these who should be treated with Telecide(guide=2,post=false)

[Eyes`Only]

To make this work I think you should make deinterlacing optional, even on PAL sources.

I take it you've never actually used my program, because that's a typical comment from some of the buddies I talk with that don't actually use DoItFast4U!, ie. suggesting things that already exist. :D

[hakko504]

No, you're right, I've been following the conversations here over the last few days, and I intend to start testing it ASAP. Sorry, I did read the docs, but I must have missed that and the conversation here did not indicate that this was the case. Actually I was waiting for ReAuthorist to surface and thought I'd try to catch up with the discussions here first. As it turned towards AviSynth/Decomb questions I thought I'd offer some help as I've been using those a lot over the last years. And the telecide(guide=2) seemed like news to you, but it is a very useful feature, but for some reason not very well known one.

[Eyes`Only]

Don't get me wrong, your input is most welcome. I'm looking for suggestions on modifications to the default avisynth scripts I provide, most definitely.

As the docs show, you can specify deinterlacing manually, or set it to detect and add it automatically (just like dvd2svcd). However, also just like DVD2SVCD, we cannot diagnose interlacing in PAL video accurately, so my app leaves PAL alone unless you manually specify to deinterlace.

Yeah the telecide(guide=2) is something I've never used. I'm NTSC so I use telecide(guide=1). But even Telecide() should work, it just might take a small amount of processing overhead as it detects the PAL automatically.

[BBWoof]

New version of DoCCE4U has been released. It can be found at http://docce4u.panthersden.com

There is already on bug noted. When you start the program it reports that it can't find a value in the registry. Don't worry about it. It doesn't affect the program.

BBWoof

[Mikel]

I don't know if you have changed the interface to CCE already, i am still having more or less the same problem that CCE does not start encoding.

Cheers

Mikel

[Eyes`Only]

I found that it works if you DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING once you press start.. If I change the focus away from CCE at any time, it starts doing weird things like not finding the .ecl, not recognizing that CCE is done, etc.

So basically the only way I've been able to use DoCCE4U is at the end of the night, I start it up, don't touch a thing, and go to bed :D

[Mikel]

I came that far. As before, DoCCE4u stops in the first step when it should open the ecl file (basically the File-Open window).
Could the reason be that i use a German Win XP?

After a few secs, the following error msg appears:

ERROR: Could not locate ComboBoxEx32 control on CCE File Open Dialog
ERROR: Could not open ECL file into CCE

Hope this helps to find the problem.

It's nice though that the program does not crash anymore.

Cheers

Mikel

[d4g]

ok i have forund a bug whish i dont know wht is at fault..here after ditf4u finishes i set in it to9 strat docc4u and to encode automatically...but found it just opens up docce4u but doesnt encode this is with both docce4u new version and doif4u new version

[tomy601k]

@hakko504

What is your advice for interlaced extra's in PAL DVD's ... Not the main movie because I didn't encounter an interlaced movie yet ... but most of the extra's on my DVD's are interlaced ... Thanks in advance ... :)

Tomy.

[hakko504]

If you're trying to achieve high compression (as with extras) my tests have indicated that TomsMoComp(1,5,1) is usually the best choise. It smooths the picture quite a lot, and that makes it easy to compress. (Note: all my earlier tests have been made with A2.50 and DivX5.02. Not sure whether there is a major difference between MPEG-2 and MPEG4 in this respect.) And as pointed out before in this thread, progressive pictures compress more easily than interlaced, but the process of deinterlacing may ruin the picture. You'll have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

Oh, and make sure they really are interlaced first before using a deinterlacer. use separatefields() to study the individual fields for artifacts first, and Telecide(guide=2,post=false) to see if you can recreate a progressive structure without deinterlacing.

[baker]

@hakko504

I have an update on my Spdierman interlace problem, you telecide guide thingy didn't remove ANY of the lines, however just putting in telecide() done a good job. Just to let you know.

P.S. just like to say that a filter for smoothing the extras is something I would love and if you are looking for filter compression methods go to www.kvcd.net and in the forums they have come up with the best filter compression techniques I have ever seen, a bit slow though..

Baker

[d4g]

hi my extras are shaky but the ,movie is fine would u know what thats from...
i remebar one oither movie i did the old fashined way of cce 2.5 that the top field frist was wrong in cce that when u check top field first it does boittom fild frist

if thats the case does docce or doitfat for detect these settings when it loads the ecl file into cce.....

i need a fix for these things thatnx

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
hi my extras are shaky but the ,movie is fine would u know what thats from...
i remebar one oither movie i did the old fashined way of cce 2.5 that the top field frist was wrong in cce that when u check top field first it does boittom fild frist

if thats the case does docce or doitfat for detect these settings when it loads the ecl file into cce.....

i need a fix for these things thatnx

No, I know that DoCCE4U doesn't check for that. And right now I don't have the template editing dialog done. There is a way to fix change the value though:

Run regedit
Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\WoofSoft\DoCCE4U\template
Click on the template you want to modify and change the Upper Field First setting to 0 to turn it off.

Hopefully soon I'll have a way to do this within the program.

BBWoof

[d4g]

when u do intergrate that will it automatically scan so it know which way to do it
for each encode

[BBWoof]

Determining when top field first is a goal that I have. But I'm going to need some PAL source material, and some PAL rippers to tell me what I'm doing. :)

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Version 1.0.0.8 has just been released. It should fix the language problem as well as the timeout problem when looking for the main cce dialog. It's available at http://docce4u.panthersden.com


BBWoof

[hakko504]

Originally posted by BBWoof
Determining when top field first is a goal that I have. But I'm going to need some PAL source material, and some PAL rippers to tell me what I'm doing. :)

BBWoof top/bottom field can be found from the .d2v file. Read Nic's explanation in this thread. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49423)

[BBWoof]

I need a PAL encoder out there to rip a disk and run dvd2avi for a title that requires tff, and one that doesn't and send me the d2v files. I'm sure I can incorporate this into the program easily enough.

BBWoof

[d4g]

hey bbwolf theres a bug in the latest version it doesnt automatically encode it says cant open ecl file but in 1007 it works fine......

can u look into it thanx

[69Mws]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I need a PAL encoder out there to rip a disk and run dvd2avi for a title that requires tff, and one that doesn't and send me the d2v files. I'm sure I can incorporate this into the program easily enough.

BBWoof

I could do this after work (7 hours to go from now). I have at the moment a whole Season of "Friends" (German RC2) on my HD prepared for CCE encoding.

This material is definitely tff-interlaced and I'll send you one of the d2v-Files!

I also have two other german PAL movies (Forrest Gump & Enemy At The Gates) ready prepared on my HD. These two are progressive. Or do you need a d2v-File from a movie which is bff-interlaced (German RC2 of Natural Born Killers would be bff-interlaced)?

What's your mail address?

Greetz
69Mws

[d4g]

ok i can send u one thats top field first i think...how can i determinine which is which in d2v

i need a detailed explanation thanx

[jrmann1999]

This is sort of off topic, but I wanted to verify that DoCCE4U is now not only used for DVD backup, using a simple bitrate calculator and some prep work I was able to transcode HDTV type Mpeg2 Transport Streams to DVD spec with your app, it made it nice and easy.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by jrmann1999
This is sort of off topic, but I wanted to verify that DoCCE4U is now not only used for DVD backup, using a simple bitrate calculator and some prep work I was able to transcode HDTV type Mpeg2 Transport Streams to DVD spec with your app, it made it nice and easy.

Fantastic.

If there is anything I can do to the app to make the prep work easier and it fits with the program's purpose, I'd be willing to add it.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
I could do this after work (7 hours to go from now). I have at the moment a whole Season of "Friends" (German RC2) on my HD prepared for CCE encoding.

This material is definitely tff-interlaced and I'll send you one of the d2v-Files!

I also have two other german PAL movies (Forrest Gump & Enemy At The Gates) ready prepared on my HD. These two are progressive. Or do you need a d2v-File from a movie which is bff-interlaced (German RC2 of Natural Born Killers would be bff-interlaced)?

What's your mail address?

Greetz
69Mws

If you can send to docce4u@panthersden.com I'd much appreciate it.

Thanks.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
ok i can send u one thats top field first i think...how can i determinine which is which in d2v

i need a detailed explanation thanx

That's what I'm trying to figure out. If I can't determine the tff setting from the d2v files, I'll have to resort to scanning the m2v file.

Send d2v files to docce4u@panthersden.com

BBWoof

P.S. Thanks for the help.

[hakko504]

Originally posted by hakko504
top/bottom field can be found from the .d2v file. Read Nic's explanation in this thread. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49423) 2's and 3's in the .d2v means topfirst video, 0's and 1's are bottom first.

[D3s7]

here's an interesting one... Just installed DoCCE4u and CCE 2.5 and now when I'm running it I get this error:

ERROR: Could not locate Open button on CCE File Open Dialog

I saw the "Open Dialog" in the preferences but it looks right to me (&Open)

[D3s7]

AAAh.. got it..

took off the & and now it's ok....

wierd

[baker]

BBwoof,
I posted a thread here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=292150 And I am not sure if your ignoring it or simply having seen it. to make sure its not the latter I am posting this here.

PLz give a response. :-)

Baker

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by baker
I posted a thread here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=292150 And I am not sure if your ignoring it or simply having seen it. to make sure its not the latter I am posting this here.

I think I just posted a response to that question in the other thread.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Now available at http://docce4u.panthersden.com

1.0.0.9 Beta 4/11/03
* Added: Top field first checkbox. Hopefully this will help out PAL users as
they can now select to enable the Top field first value for each avs file.
Top field first preference will now be stored in the template when "Save as
template default" button is clicked.
* Changed: The way the program stores chapter points. Now stored as a CSV
string in the job registry key. The filename of the chapter list will no
longer be stored. If there is a filename in the chapter list edit box, the
program will reparse the file and replace the current chapter points.
* Changed: During the first part of a RoBa method encode, the mpv file is no
longer created, only the vaf file. This speeds up the first part.
* Added: Logging capabilities. Set to enable logging on the settings dialog.
* Added: Now at startup check the version of CCE installed, and if it's not
2.50 gives a warning about incompability.
* Added: Now at startup checks the version of avisynth.dll installed. If the
version is greater than 2.0.8.0 will give a warning about compatibility with
scripts created by DoItFast4U.

[Siku]

@BBWoof

Would it be possible to add a bitratecalculator for SVCD in DoCCE4U? I mean a bitratecalculator where you could select an audiobitrate and so on... well, you know. It would be very usefull add-on for people who make SVCDs.

Best regards,
Siku

[fxer80]

I was searching the forum but couldn't find any posts on the topic of new versions of CCE with DoCCE4U, will the newer, downloadable versions of CCE (like the 2.67 branch) be supported in the program? Thanks

-fxer

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by Siku
[BWould it be possible to add a bitratecalculator for SVCD in DoCCE4U? I mean a bitratecalculator where you could select an audiobitrate and so on... well, you know. It would be very usefull add-on for people who make SVCDs.
[/B]

Since I wrote this program to do things other than DVD I'll add that to my todo list.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by fxer80
will the newer, downloadable versions of CCE (like the 2.67 branch) be supported in the program?

At some point I expect it to. When I get the basic functionality working I'll start working on it.

BBWoof

[Wardancer]

hi BBWoof ..
i'm one of the PAL encoders, and there is one problem, that isn't covered in your app .. and i'm just wondering, why no other PAL encoders are requesting such an Option: Wouldn't it be possible to add a simple Checkbox for setting the CCE-Encoding to Progressive or not Progressive Frames (best option would be if CCE4U would discover it itself).. i think that would simplify things .. i never ever used the top-field-first option in CCE 2.50 (as far as i know this one is broken though). So my whole problem is, that i can't use CCE4U without doing a decomb for interlaced source material ...
So I tink this is the option everyone is looking for, or am i wrong ??

Thanks ;)

[baker]

i asked him for this option and he seemed pretty willing and ready :D. so lets just hope for the best.

Baker

[ShaneZ]

Originally posted by baker
i asked him for this option and he seemed pretty willing and ready :D. so lets just hope for the best.

Baker

There is a TFF checkbox in DC4U 1.0.0.9 beta. It's already done.

http://docce4u.panthersden.com

:)

[baker]

yes but theres no interlace button!!!

Baker

[Wardancer]

no this is all about a progressive/interlaced option in CCE4U .. not a TFF option ... TFF is broken in CCE anyway ..

[baker]

broken?? how??

I havent actually got to se it yet!

Baker

[69Mws]

My experiences with PAL Interlaced Encoding with CCE, based on infos I got from this board:


Source is TFF-Interlaced:
- deactivate ZigZag Scanning (same effect as activating Alternate Scanning in version 2.66.01.07)
- DEactivate Upper Field First


Source is BFF-Interlaced:
- also deactivate ZigZag Scanning
- ACTIVATE Upper Field First


Sounds maybe weird, but it works 100%. Some call it a bug in CCE, others call it not a bug, instead saying CCE is handling Field Orders in another way that people may think, that's all. Whatever it is, I don't care as long as it works....and it does work :)

You can tell from having a look at DVD2AVI, whether your source is interlaced or not, but you can't recognize with the blank eye, whether it's bff or tff. Based on my experiences, bff is quite rare....

Maybe that helps some of you guys about the miracle of encoding interlaced material in CCE :)

From my point of view, the options for (de)activating ZigZag and Upper Field First need to be implemented in the DoCCE4U Interface, otherwise it's worthless for PAL interlaced stuff.

Maybe using FieldDeinterlace in the AVS Script may avoid all this PAL interlaced "problems", but I'm not sure of that, 'cause I didn't use FieldDeinterlace 'til now. I only heard that it should work quite well and doesn't slow down encoding very much.

BTW: BBWoof, were my project files of interlaced PAL material, that I sent you of any use somehow? :)

Greetz
69Mws

[Wardancer]

okay .. maybe we should end the discussion here and just try to get some more checkboxes into cce4u ;) ..
oh and btw .. i did my first FieldDeinterlace Encode yesterday, and i have to say: doesn't look bad, but: my enconding speed drops to about 2/3, of the normal encoding speed :( ...

[tomy601k]

Thanks for the new features BBWoof ... Deactivating "Upper Field
First" solved my problem with Extra's in PAL DVD's ... They looked shakey ... but now they r great ... Thanks again ... :D

Tomy.

[69Mws]

Little feature requests (hopefully little :) ):

- possibility to change the "Image Quality Priority"
- possibility to (de)activate ZigZag Scanning Order.

This Image Quality Priority setting is always 25 in the ecl-File.

I prefer a setting of 17 for DVD Reencoding.

I don't wanna start a discussion of what setting to use but it should be possible to change it via DoCCE4U.

The thing about ZigZag is interesting for PAL encoders, who have to deal with interlaced from time to time, but I think you know that already, just wanted to point it out again ;)

Could you do that, BBWoof? :)

Greetz
69Mws

[-=ViBeZ=-]

i too would like to see the option to disable zigzag scanning for PAl users :)

[Wardancer]

So checking Progressive Frames isn't that important for reencoding non progressive content ?? Maybe i didn't recognize that, cause i normaly disable progressive scan when doing a interlaced reencode... so the zigzag scan option is the option that makes the video shaky ??

[69Mws]

Originally posted by Wardancer
So checking Progressive Frames isn't that important for reencoding non progressive content ?? Maybe i didn't recognize that, cause i normaly disable progressive scan when doing a interlaced reencode... so the zigzag scan option is the option that makes the video shaky ??

Ups, you're right, unchecking "Progressive Frames" would also be nice, I also uncheck it for interlaced reencodes :)

[69Mws]

Uh, I got another one :)

When the CCEData from DIF4U is opened and you want to use another template (switching from "RoBa" to "Mutlipass VBR" for example), the bitrate settings from the CCEData.txt will be overwritten by the default settings of the specific template.

Maybe a check could be implemented to not overwrite the bitrates, after a DoCCE4U-Datafile was opened and the Template is changed.

Greetz
69Mws

[VerbaL]

An option to modify the Image Quality Priority would be nice indeed. Since ReAuthorist has this value setting, I guess it might be possible to pass that to DoCCE4U too?

I never realised this didn't happen until 69Mws posted the suggestion here :)

[-=ViBeZ=-]

I've also noticed that the bias setting doesnt get transfered from RA either. But I know that this is being worked on :)

[69Mws]

Just an idea:

With ECLCCE it's possible to load ecl Files into other CCE Versions, like 2.66.01.07 for example.

With this tool it's also no problem opening ecl Files saved by CCE 2.50.

In order to enhance ecl Support, ECLCCE has to be started and that launches CCE 2.66.01.07 with full ecl-support. It works very nice for me.

My idea would be to implement a line in the DoCCE4U Settings to point out to the eclcce.exe (just like the line that points to cce250.exe) in order to pass the data to CCE 2.66.01.07 as an alternative.

Greetz
69Mws

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
BTW: BBWoof, were my project files of interlaced PAL material, that I sent you of any use somehow? :)

Greetz
69Mws

I appreciate you sending them, but using dvd2avi I really can't tell any difference between them. All the values are 2, which doesn't really tell me much.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by Wardancer
Wouldn't it be possible to add a simple Checkbox for setting the CCE-Encoding to Progressive or not Progressive Frames (best option would be if CCE4U would discover it itself).. i think that would simplify things

Some people tell me that the tff checkbox has helped. There will be settings for both progressive/interlaced as well as zigzag order in the next release.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
Little feature requests (hopefully little :) ):

- possibility to change the "Image Quality Priority"
- possibility to (de)activate ZigZag Scanning Order.


ZigZag will definitely be in the next release. IQP, I will try to get in. It's not that it's hard to implement, it's just that the interface is getting awfully crowded and in my opinion, the interface must look good also.

BBWoof

P.S. I will figure out how to get it in there somehow.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
When the CCEData from DIF4U is opened and you want to use another template (switching from "RoBa" to "Mutlipass VBR" for example), the bitrate settings from the CCEData.txt will be overwritten by the default settings of the specific template.

Yep, that's sorta annoyed me at times also. I thought it would be nice to set the bitrates based on templates, which is what I did. But if you want to switch methods it becomes a pain.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
Just an idea:

With ECLCCE it's possible to load ecl Files into other CCE Versions, like 2.66.01.07 for example.

With this tool it's also no problem opening ecl Files saved by CCE 2.50.

In order to enhance ecl Support, ECLCCE has to be started and that launches CCE 2.66.01.07 with full ecl-support. It works very nice for me.

My idea would be to implement a line in the DoCCE4U Settings to point out to the eclcce.exe (just like the line that points to cce250.exe) in order to pass the data to CCE 2.66.01.07 as an alternative.

Greetz
69Mws

I PM'd the author of eclcce this morning and got his permission to add support for his program to mine. They way I'll do it is the same path that's used for cce will be used for eclcce. This way it shouldn't matter which version you use, except that the ecls are different between 2.50 and 2.66.

My only real problem with this is from a programming point of view. I have attempted to stay away from things that I can't directly modify through code. So this using someone else's app is definitely new ground for me :)

[69Mws]

Well, thanks for all the responses, BBWoof :)

I sent a sample of a tff-interlaced PAL Clip to you and Eyes ´Only. Did you get that?

I also sent Eyes ´Only a bff-interlaced PAL Clip. Did he forward that to you? If not and you're interested, let me know and I would send it to you for "investigation".

Greetz
69Mws

[69Mws]

Originally posted by BBWoof
ZigZag will definitely be in the next release. IQP, I will try to get in. It's not that it's hard to implement, it's just that the interface is getting awfully crowded and in my opinion, the interface must look good also.

BBWoof

P.S. I will figure out how to get it in there somehow.

Yup, I totally agree. The handling of a GUI is very important and often underestimated! An overcrowded interface can be a PITA.

The only thing that would be nice for PAL Users is (de)activating ZigZag. Until then -=ViBeZ=- and me figured out a temp solution to implement PAL tff/bff support by adding two custoized templates based on your RoBa-Template.

He figured out how to edit the default-templates and I figured out how to add his customized templates instead of overwriting one of the existing templates.

The "history" can be watched here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51776 :)

Adjusting IQP is of everybody's interest, I think. It's also implemented in the ReAuthorist GUI, but this parameter is not passed through to DoCCE4U, only to the ecl-File, which ReAuhorist can create.

I'm sure you're gonna implement it well in a nice interface :)

Are you also planning to let users create own templates? This can be already done, but only by editing directly the registry. Ok, but I wouldn't see this as Prio 1 right now :)

Keep up the good work!

Greetz
69Mws

[RB]

Originally posted by BBWoof
My only real problem with this is from a programming point of view. I have attempted to stay away from things that I can't directly modify through code. So this using someone else's app is definitely new ground for me :)
Just wanted to let you know that I'm always glad to help in case you bump into problems. There is virtually no difference between running CCE 2.66/2.67 directly or through EclCCE, just ECL saving and loading works in addition.

[69Mws]

I have a problem with CCE on a specific DVD.

I tried DoCCE4U on a quite huge DVD (R2 PAL of "Blue Velvet"). There are quite a lot extras, the biggest Titleset with Extras has about 2 GB. The whole original size is about 7 or 8 GB.

I prepared everything with DIF4U and loaded the CCEData.txt into DoCCE4U. The encoding of the main movie is no problem, but when it comes to the first PGC of the second Titleset, CCE creates the vaf-File and then it freezes during the creation of the mpv.

I figured out, that it's not really a problem of DoCCE4U, because the error also occurs, when I don't use DoCCE4U and load this AVS manually into CCE (no matter which version).

I must admit that I set a very low avg bitrate on the extras...only 500 kbps...could this cause the freezing?

Normally I never have any freezing problems with CCE, so maybe it's originated in the very low bitrate....anyone like to share their experiences on this issue? :)

Greetz
69Mws

[kenma]

I've just installed DoCCE4U and there is a problem, it can't find CCE.
Went to settings and saw that DoCCE4U expected CCE in

c:\program files\custom technology\CCEblabla

but CCE was installed to

c:\programme\custom technology\CCEblabla

(cause of a german windows xp)

Clicked on BROWSE next to the path, but no requester opens up, so can't change the path, is this a bug in DoCCE4U or is there something wrong with my windows installation (1 week old, freshly installed) ?

I know, it would be easier to install CCE in "program files" but, why is that BROWSE-Button in DoCCE4U ?

Anyone could help please ?

[69Mws]

I have german Win2K and don't have any problems customizing the path to CCE :confused:

Try De- and Reinstalling DoCCE4U and be sure to have the latest Version (1.0.1.0).

Otherwise I think you can edit the path in the registry.

Look into HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\WoofSoft\DoCCE4U\ and somwhere in this area you'll find the setting for the path.

Greetz
69Mws

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
Well, thanks for all the responses, BBWoof :)

I sent a sample of a tff-interlaced PAL Clip to you and Eyes ´Only. Did you get that?

I also sent Eyes ´Only a bff-interlaced PAL Clip. Did he forward that to you? If not and you're interested, let me know and I would send it to you for "investigation".

Greetz
69Mws

Sure, send it to me in #doom9 if you would and leave me a PM that you've done it.

BBWOof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
Are you also planning to let users create own templates? This can be already done, but only by editing directly the registry. Ok, but I wouldn't see this as Prio 1 right now :)
Greetz
69Mws

That's the plan at some point. That and a visual chapter editor. I think I can get around the CCE limitation of only 16 templates.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by RB
Just wanted to let you know that I'm always glad to help in case you bump into problems. There is virtually no difference between running CCE 2.66/2.67 directly or through EclCCE, just ECL saving and loading works in addition.

Thanks RB, I'm sure I'll be asking :)

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by 69Mws
I have a problem with CCE on a specific DVD.

I prepared everything with DIF4U and loaded the CCEData.txt into DoCCE4U. The encoding of the main movie is no problem, but when it comes to the first PGC of the second Titleset, CCE creates the vaf-File and then it freezes during the creation of the mpv.

I must admit that I set a very low avg bitrate on the extras...only 500 kbps...could this cause the freezing?

Greetz
69Mws

The low bitrate might be a problem, I never set to below 1700 for extras. But in addition, you might look at the specific frame that it's crashing on. I've found that if there is a "glitch" in the video from the original dvd it will cause CCE to crash.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by kenma
I've just installed DoCCE4U and there is a problem, it can't find CCE.
Went to settings and saw that DoCCE4U expected CCE in

c:\program files\custom technology\CCEblabla

but CCE was installed to

c:\programme\custom technology\CCEblabla

(cause of a german windows xp)

Clicked on BROWSE next to the path, but no requester opens up, so can't change the path, is this a bug in DoCCE4U or is there something wrong with my windows installation (1 week old, freshly installed) ?

I know, it would be easier to install CCE in "program files" but, why is that BROWSE-Button in DoCCE4U ?

Anyone could help please ?

The Browse button is there to browse for the cce executable. Haven't run into this problem for a very long time. Are you using 1.0.1.0?

BBWoof

[69Mws]

Originally posted by BBWoof
The low bitrate might be a problem, I never set to below 1700 for extras. But in addition, you might look at the specific frame that it's crashing on. I've found that if there is a "glitch" in the video from the original dvd it will cause CCE to crash.

I don't think, that it's a specific frame, because the freezing was not always at the same position.

And in CCE 2.66 for example it freezed already at the beginning of the vaf-creation.

I think there are two possibilities for this freezing:
- CCE has a common problem with very low bitrates or
- it's a problem when the gap between avg and max bitrate is very large (it was set to avg 500, max 9576...)

The problem is with this DVD that it has 8 Titlesets and one of the extras uses already 2 GB on the original DVD (kinda documentation over an hour).

The rest of the extras are several smaller Titlesets ranging from ~50 to ~280 MB.

The movie itself also has a playtime of 2 hrs and when you set a bitrate of 1000 or even more for the extras, there's not really much bitrate left to use for the movie...that's the reason why I tried to squeeze the extras down so much (being aware of crap quality for sure... :) ).

Greetz
69Mws

[69Mws]

Originally posted by BBWoof
Sure, send it to me in #doom9 if you would and leave me a PM that you've done it.

BBWOof

I'm not quite familiar with this "#doom9" (kinda IRC Channel?), I'll just send it to your mail-address which I already have. Don't panic, the clip is not verly large, just ~1 MB or so.

Greetz
69Mws

[baker]

theres a well known bug in CCE if the avg bitrates and max bitrates are too close, Perhaps there is a simliar bug for the min bitrates.

Baker

[kenma]

@BBWoof:

I'm just testing version 1.0.0.3, where can I download newer versions ?

[ShaneZ]

Originally posted by kenma
@BBWoof:

I'm just testing version 1.0.0.3, where can I download newer versions ?

http://docce4u.panthersden.com

[adam]

I didn't see any anywhere else to post bug reports, so sorry if this is misplaced

DoCCE has a major bug, IMO. It does not correctly set the luminence level, which can have a very noticable effect on quality. For a DVD source the luminance level should be set to 0-255 not 16-235. 16-235 just compresses the luma, and for a DVD source this has already been done. You want to use 0-255 to prevent further compression, because the source is already perfect as is. I think this has been explained pretty well in this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=28815

as well as on the site linked to in that thread. I'd consider using DoCCE in my encodes if it wasn't for this bug. Also, I would think that this would be a pretty easy thing to fix, and it makes such a big difference in quality.

[69Mws]

@adam:

You can fix that anytime by yourself without waiting for a new release.

Enter the registry and go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\WoofSoft\DoCCE4U\template\

Under template are several folders each for every template. In that folders you'll find all settings regarding CCE incl. the luminance level.

The default setting is "0", so changing it to "1" (in decimal mode) should fix it, so that lum.level 0-255 will be set in the ecl-file, which is created by DoCCE4U.

Greetz
69Mws

[kenma]

is DoCCE4U only for CCE 2.50 ???

[69Mws]

Originally posted by kenma
is DoCCE4U only for CCE 2.50 ???

Until now only CCE 2.50 is supported, because of it's capability of saving and opening ecl-files.

I think BBWoof is working on the integration of ECLCCE in DoCCE4u, which allows to use then also Versions like 2.66

Greetz
69Mws

[adam]

69Mws good to know, I'll do that. I still think its important to correct this bug because it seems to be pervasive and I don't think too many people realize how much they are crippling the dynamic range of their film's colors. Every guide I see on this site says to encode in the 16-235 color space as well.

[69Mws]

I don't really know which setting should be used.

I also searched some german sites about that actually and they also stick to the setting 16 to 235 because that's the setting which is needed for playback on a TV Set, so they say. But I also noticed that this was mostly regarded in guides about SVCD Encoding.

I always used this setting and can't say that I got eye cancer from it :D

Actually I'm doing a movie with the 0 to 255 setting. I'll see about the results soon...

Can some of the in-depth professionals help us out here? :)

Greetz
69Mws

[Eyes`Only]

In ITU-R BT. 601-5, which is the international standard specifying the format of digital component video. Currently at version 5 (identified as 601-5), the range of luminance is defined as 16 to 235. I personally have done tests using both settings and couldn't tell the difference, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has actually seen a difference, instead of going on theory?

[adam]

I've run lots of tests and read lots of articles on this. Yes, 16-235 is the correct range for tv playback, and that is exactly why you should NOT set the encoder to this range. Camera's record colors outside of the range which a tv supports. So you, at some stage in your encoding process, compress the luminence scale to 16-235, what a tv supports. This has obviously already been done when the original DVD was made. When you set CCE to 16-235 you are not setting the output to this range, you are simply telling it to further compress the luma. This results in less than true black and less than true white. Depending on the source it can really result in a variety of things. Sometimes the movie appears too bright, but usually it makes it too dark, with black looking more like grey.

Here is a test you can run to verify this for yourself. Take a letterboxed source and only crop half the borders and only add new borders for this amount. Now do an encode in CCE at 16-235. Once its done, do it again, with the same amount cropped. Keep encoding and eventually you will see that the part of your border which you did not crop has become more and more grey compared to the border you have added. Everytime you encode in the 16-235 colorspace you are further compressing your luma and straying farther away from true black and true white. BTW: Make sure and test on a hardware player.

The source DVD has already had these values compressed. By setting DVD2AVI to either YUV output or RGB at tv scale you preserve the color space. So now you MUST set CCE to 0-255 to keep the colorspace as is.

If you were to set dvd2avi to RGB at pc scale then it would stretch the luminence scale out to 0-255, and you would want to encode at 16-235 to compress it back to spec again. This is what you must do in TMPGenc since by default it encodes in the 16-235 colorspace, though can be switched on the Quantize Matrix tab.

Granted, on most sources you are not going to see a difference either way but since its just a matter of using one setting rather than the other, its worth doing correctly.

Read that site that I linked to in the other thread, it explains this much better than I can.

[Eyes`Only]

I'm sold! Opening regedit right now... :D

[VerbaL]

Hi,

After reading the information about the luminance level, I would also like to start using that setting. I checked the registry value for DoCCE4U and that's set to 0. Should I set this value to 1 for 0-255 luminance level or is it something else?

[D3s7]

hey BBWoof...

how about an option to modify the header of the .ecl file... I use CCE 2.64 primarily and a 2.5 file works just fine if I modify the comment line at the head of the file...

If that could be set, then I could use docce4u w/ 2.64

Just a thought

[brashquido]

Very informative post adam, I'll be making that change as soon as I get a chance :)

[RB]

BTW, DVD2SVCD has always had that setting set to 0-255 in CCE, back to the earliest versions I can remember.