Odd DVD playback problem

[DVD Sheep]

I'm not new to DVD burning but I stumbled upon an odd problem. I have burned more than my share of film backups and use Nero 5.5.9.17 (UDF DVD-ROM 1.02) to burn and DVD2One for authoring. All my backups work just fine, except...

I was at my friends house ready to watch some movies with some friends. I had tried backups in his standalone before and there was no problem. But this time, the DVD player gave the dreaded "no disc" error. Further examination learned that all backups would play normal while the dvd was completely full. But when a movie was less than 4,0 Gb, the standalone did not recognize them.

My question is: does anybody have simular experiences and found out a way to deal with it. I can of course fill the 'empty space' with rubish, but that's not really solving the problem (for my own dvd standalone plays them just fine)

Anybody any idea ?

[alexnoe]

Use software which creates DVD-Video compatible discs (Nero is none of these!)

[gooki]

A lot of players fail to recognise a DVD-R discs if it is under 550MB, but I've never seen one that requires a minimum of 4GB of data.

[DVD Sheep]

@alexnoe
As I already mentioned, I have burned quite a lot DVD's already. All have no problems. Therefore the argument that I should not use Nero is far from valid. My only question was really if anyone has encountered simular problems. For my own personal use, my backup methode is more than sufficient. My backups also work in PS2 and numerous other DVD stand alones (I am yet to encounter a player in which my backups do not work). So claiming that Nero does not produce DVD compatible discs is just silly.

@gooki
I know of the less than 550 Mb problem. Then again, who would burn a DVD with less than 550 Mb. Thanks for the quick reply though.

So anybody else any idea?

[alexnoe]

Therefore the argument that I should not use Nero is far from valid. So claiming that Nero does not produce DVD compatible discs is just silly. I don't think that you have an idea what a "standard" is!

Only because 99% of all players play your disc, you cannot conclude that it is DVD-Video compliant! THIS conclusion is just silly.
You want a player which doesn't play Nero DVD-Video-similar discs? Here it is: Panasonic RV-32 (it plays discs made with better software, and also discs made with Nero with UDF 1.02 only, but not discs made with the DVD-Video option)

If it were 100% DVD-Video compliant, then *every* dvd player which supports your dvd-r media would play it, and not only "almost every player"

Many players tolerate minor violations of the dvd-video standard, and some don't. Yours is appearently not very tolerant => again: use software which creates 100% dvd-video discs.

What is a "standard"?
A standard describes what properties a certain item has to have. One single violation of one single rule => standard is not met!

In case of DVD-Video, for example:
On a DVD-Video there must only capital letters be used in the video files. So as soon as only one file contains one small letter, the entire thing is no DVD-Video any longer, even if almost all players still play it

You can spent as much time as you like on searching for other reasons or solutions, or you can spent much less time on using a better software and trying if it helps.

You should also read the changelog of Nero: Version 5.5.10.7 fixes some compatibility issues with DVD-Video => claiming that 5.5.9.17 creates DVD-Video compliant discs is silly :D :D :D , unless you say that they have fixed something which was not broken :p

[DVD Sheep]

I fail to see your point in your argument... Either I do not understand your argument, or you and I are not on the same wavelength on this subject. You urge me to use software which creates 100% dvd-video discs. (which software are you referring to?) You say so, for in your opinion Nero does not make 100% dvd-video discs. Then you give me an example of a standalone player which apperantly does not play Nero discs, but you also mention that the player DOES play Nero UDF 1.02 created discs, which I USE?

So your standalone dvd player, which according to you, will not play nero discs, do play nero discs udf 1.02, the one I use?

What is the point? I honoustly do not see it?

Then you say and I quote "If it were 100% DVD-Video compliant, then *every* dvd player which supports your dvd-r media would play it, and not only "almost every player"

As I already mentioned, ALL players I used my dvd's in (I dare to say it were over 50 different stand alones) play my dvd's. Even the one mentioned in my first post will play them. The only oddity in that perticular player is that it will not play dvd's if they are not 'full' where the boarder is about 4 Gb. All dvd's with >4 Gb will play perfectly. All dvd's <4 Gb will give a "no disc" error.

I do want to start a flame war, as I'm truly curious why this oddity occurs, but I do think you and I are discussing different topics, for as I said before, I fail to see your point.

p.s. "You should also read the changelog of Nero: Version 5.5.10.7 fixes some compatibility issues with DVD-Video => claiming that 5.5.9.17 creates DVD-Video compliant discs is silly, unless you say that they have fixed something which was not broken"

If you had paid attention you would also have noticed that 5.5.10.xx - 5.5.10.7 are flawed version. Why? Because the standard dvd template made UDF 1.5 dvd discs, instead of UDF 1.02 . THAT and only THAT was the reason they did not play well on many stand alones, for many standalones are not compatible with UDF 1.5

They effectively DOWNGRADED the standerd template in order to make it work again... So don't be cocky... Read in to stuff before you claim to have expertise on the subject. As I already mentioned, I only use UDF 1.02 so upgrading to 5.5.10.7 is just stupid. Furthermore I have a Sony Dru500a, which has many conflicts with Nero 5.5.10.xx so I'm sticking to 5.5.9.17

[alexnoe]

What is the point? I honoustly do not see it?That Nero can create different kinds of almost-DVD-video discsAll dvd's <4 Gb will give a "no disc" error.And you still claim that these are DVD-Video compatible?

What you describe is not at all an oddity, this is just a flaw in the file system which Nero creates (probably a broken Bit 32 somewhere), unless better software creates discs with the same problem (MKISOFS, ImgTool). If this happenes, then your player has a bug, and you should consult the manufacturer and report it.

If you had paid attention you would also have noticed that 5.5.10.xx - 5.5.10.7 are flawed version. Why? Because the standard dvd template made UDF 1.5 dvd discs, Then don't use Nero at all. You can create your image file with the abovementions tools and can burn it with DVD Decryptor

All these tools are *freeware*, so you can't lose anything by trying, except for about 1/2 h for creating the image and burning it.

It is now your turn to do something, to try something and to report results. As long as you insist on using only one piece of software, it won't be possible to find out if Nero is the reason or not.

[DVD Sheep]

Why should I not use Nero? It creates 99.9% compatible discs? I dare say that other burn programs do not even get close to this. Imgtool I have used, and although I get good results, it is still inferior to Nero when it comes to compatebility. You seem to fail to see that I do not use standard Nero Dvd Video templates. So I question if you really understand all I am saying. If my dvd backups work 99.9% of the time on 50 different stand alones why should I switch? Why should I believe you when you state that Nero makes 'inferior' discs? I only encountered 1 problem. So the issue is why doesn't this player work, instead of, why do my discs not work.

[alexnoe]

1 problem is one too much.

If ImgTool fails as well, try mkisofs.

mirror here: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/cdrtools-2.01a02-win32-bin.zip
cygwin: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/cygwin.zip

usage:

mkisofs -dvd-video -V <volume_name> -o <output file name> <source folder>

example: mkisofs -dvd-video -V STAR_WARS_1 -o i:\dvd.iso i:\dvds\starwars1\dvd-video

[DVD Sheep]

I will try this tool. I hope the problem is solved. I will post my results later this week. Thanks so far.

[atreides93]

Ok guys lets calm down and relax a little bit.

It makes no sense why movies less than 4 gigs don't play. I've never heard of that problem before. I suspect your authoring process is flawed, or nero is flawed. I have heard several people over thepast year complain about Nero. I don't know if its bad or not. I use ImageTools 0.99 which actually uses the Nero API and it has worked EVERY time so far.

Maybe your friends standalone player is crap. Did you try it on any other standalone?

[DVD Sheep]

Yes as mentioned, I had a 100% compatibility score until this oddity. All discs have been used before on different stand alones, all with no problem. As stated, the player does play my backups as long as they are over 4 Gb. That's why I call it an oddity. Maybe the player is indeed crap. For those interested it is the Grundig Xenaro GDP 5100 (http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=645&Search=Search&#comments) which according to most users is a superb player. As noted Nero has a lot of compatibility issues. All can be resolved quit easily (just don't use the DVD-Video template) (press here (http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127624&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) if you want to read in on the subject) and thus you do not require other software. I strongly advice people not to clutter their system with different burning engines for they WILL eventually screw up your system. The exception being IMGtool as this uses the Nero Api. I will test other media (other branch/ dvd+r/ suggested burning engine) this week, just out of curiosity.

In regards to the irritated tone of my previous posts: It was just a sign of frustration as alexnoe and I were discussing different topics. My apologies if I sounded to harsh. :rolleyes:

DISCLAIMER: :D I do not wish to know how to burn DVD-Video's nor do I suffer compatibility problems. I am just curious why this oddity occurs :confused:

[atreides93]

heh, i've never even heard of that brand name. must only be in europe or something??
typical brands here in the US are from japan and taiwan etc...daewoo, apex, toshiba, sony, jvc, pioneer, oritron.

[aldan]

EXACTLY the same problem with a Philips DVD701 (from K-Mart I guess...:) ). Furthermore, the "thing" calculates bytes, so 3.75GB will still work while it's over 4,000,000,000 bytes.

so:
1- why?
2- how to prevent it, DVD Sheep? Do you pad garbage on your DVD or does it have to be in vobs?

[DVD Sheep]

I have not found a simple solution yet. To me putting in Garbage is just plain stupid, but it does the trick. So if I really want to view a dvd at my friends place, I just add some trailers (which of course will not play as they are no part of the original movie). Furthermore the player seem to be more 'tolerant' when the volume name is less than 8 characters. Maybe this will help a bit. I'm still investigating the problem but I'm glad that apparently I'm not the only one suffering the same issues.

I'll keep you informed :)

[aldan]

Oh, one more thing, all the +R / +RW work fine, while the -R / -RW do not.

[DVD Sheep]

Haven't tried the dvd+r yet. Will do so. Thanks for the tip.

[alexnoe]

I strongly advice people not to clutter their system with different burning engines for they WILL eventually screw up your system. Fortunately, mkisofs is not burning software, but only creates image files :D

Does your player also refuse discs < 4 GB if you use mkisofs to make the image?

[aldan]

doesn't look like the right tool... and has not being updated since 1999 http://www.andante.org/mkisofs.html
I've tried (as far as I remember :)) Nero, RecordNow, DVD Decrypter, and even MyDVD that came with my Sony- all with the same result...
I think it must be something with the player itself, mine is pretty old...

[alexnoe]

If you had started the program, you would have noticed that it is version 2.01a02 and that that page is obsolete

H:\Downloads\Brenn-Progs\CDR-Tools>mkisofs -version
mkisofs 2.01a02 (i686-pc-cygwin)

H:\Downloads\Brenn-Progs\CDR-Tools>


Is it really that hard to type a line and burn an image to a dvd-rw (or .-r), that you can't give it a try :confused:

[aldan]

coudn't find a Windows version for mkisofs 2... please post a link

[alexnoe]

What do you mean with "Windows version"?

mkisofs is running from command line. The version which I have already linked before is for windows (it is included in the cdrtools).

[aldan]

sorry about that...

OK, here is the result: it does NOT work in the Philips. But it does not work either in other Dvd players I've tried, a Panasonic DVD-RV32 and a Samsung DVD-S221. The volume/files looks and seems OK because it works in WinDVD, the software player.

So now I guess you owe me a blank DVD....:)

[alexnoe]

:(

[mj0012]

DVDSheep, what kind of discs are you using and how are you burning them? I had this same kind of problem when I was using Ritek G03s that I had burned at 2x in a Toshiba SD-R5002. The DVDs I made would play in just about every player, but every once in awhile there would be a disc that some players just wouldn't recognize. Often burning at 1x would solve the problem.

[DVD Sheep]

Hi I solved the problem today! (to my own amazement)

Apparently some standalones do not appreciate it when the volume length is greater than 8 characters. I came across the solution, because I went to my friends house again, and brought Ali-G with me. The disk was under 4 Gb and to my supprise it played... So there went my <4 Gb theorie. So I gathered all the backups that worked, and did not work on his player, and to my suprise all the disk where the volume label was 8 characters or less would play, and those with more than 8 characters would not. So I tested it by burning ONE_HOUR_PHOTO as ONE_HOUR and voila, problem solved.

This is a very stupid solution... but it works :D

Specs:
Burner: SONY DRU500a Firmware version 1.G
Burn Program: Nero 5.5.9.17b (the 12,6 Mb version NOT the 12,0 Mb version)
Burned as: DVD-ROM(UDF) partition 1.02/ No multisession
Burn speed: 2x
Disk Info: DVD-R That Write General while label disks (el cheapo)
Succesrate: 100% (tested on at least 25 different stand alones, PS2, XBOX)

Onder the label tab I have ISO9660. I'm thinking of toying with this a bit to see if the same problem arrisses...

Hope that's enough info...

[alexnoe]

Many original DVDs have a volume name larger than 8 chars. Can you find a pressed single layer DVD-Video, which is smaller than 4 GB, with a volume ID larger than 8 chars?

[DVD Sheep]

Once upon a time in China is one of those, although imho pressed dvd's are quite different to burned dvd's

[alexnoe]

Yes, but if your player doesn't read such a pressed disc either, then you can be 100% sure what the problem is :D

The logical structure (file system etc) of a pressed disc is not different from a burned one, if the burning program was working correctly, btw

[DVD Sheep]

That's true. But I'm happy nonetheless :D Once again 100% succes. Not bad... ;)

[DVD Sheep]

Just thought of another thing. Does anyone know how to use the dvdxcopy burn engine without actually using dvdxcopy. This engine seems to work very good. Maybe for future problems. Would be nice to make a < 4 Gb disk using dvdxcopy with one disk < 8 labelcharacters and one disk 8 > characters. See if dvdxcopy somehow makes it 'legal' to have 8+ characters...

[aldan]

DVD Sheep, sorry to confuse you :) ... most of my non-working DVDs are labeled "new"- as being Nero's default name... For me, your 4gb theory works fine- I've even burned a DVD with filling and one without just to make sure, and the label is over 8 characters (this time :) )
Anyhow, the commercial DVDs seem to be another story, all are working, even those under 4gb. Here is an article about compatibility and all that jazz...
http://www.dvdtoday.com/Recordable%20DVD%20Test.htm

[DVD Sheep]

Well at least someone got better from all of this. Good luck in the future Aldan. I have a new problem now :D One of my backups doesn't play on a PS2. Here we go again ;)

'one day i'll be able to put in a dvd, put in a blank dvd, press copy and it will work on all players. probably in the year 2010'

[spiderman2k1]

DVD2ONE say's Record Now MAX is the best for burning DVD's try ripping one of those DVD's and reburn it and see if it has the same problem

[aldan]

thanks, DVD Sheep, same to you.
And.... don't feel too bad, half of my DVDs made on the SonyDRU500a are not read back in the same drive that burned them... As usual, the Industry is using us as guinea pigs, but, don't worry! the upcoming firmware update will solve all the old problems.... and introduce some new ones, of course...