So far... Ogg is the best a/v contain for me at least

[ookzDVD]

It can mux .avi (divx/xvid) + vorbis/mp3-cbr/mp3-vbr/mp3-abr/ac3 + subtitle + chapter-info, without problem ;)

Muxing & demuxing tools are complete, thanks to Cyrius for his great
tools.

PS. Just wait for the next + .dts :)

.OGM rules!

[AmiRage]

Muxing always or at least mostly works. :D

... but in everyday use I experienced a lot of problems and dropped .OGM months ago ... and BTW when was the last update of Ogg/SubTit DS?

[mikeson]

@AmiRage:

but in everyday use I experienced a lot of problems

What probles have you experienced? I use DivX/XviD + Ogg Vorbis + chapters without problems...

[tangent]

Of course, the best thing about OGM is that it's been available for quite a long time already while other alternatives hasn't seen the lights of day yet...

[AmiRage]

Originally posted by mikeson
What probles have you experienced? I use DivX/XviD + Ogg Vorbis + chapters without problems... Did you ever use several OGGs, subtitles and chapters?

There seem to be a lot of problems especially when using subtitles. Just for example take a look at the old and new OGM subtitle problem threads on the first page of this forum.

[mikeson]

@AmiRage:

Did you ever use several OGGs, subtitles and chapters?

No no, I use 'only' oggs and chapters (for subtitles I use VobSub streams). This works fine for me...

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by tangent
Of course, the best thing about OGM is that it's been available for quite a long time already while other alternatives hasn't seen the lights of day yet...

Lol! maybe!

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by AmiRage
Did you ever use several OGGs, subtitles and chapters?

There seem to be a lot of problems especially when using subtitles. Just for example take a look at the old and new OGM subtitle problem threads on the first page of this forum.

No, I never use several audio and subtitle since it's useless for me :) English is still my favorite. :)

[ChristianHJW]

@tangent : :p

@OokzDVD : Who's that lady in your avatar mate ? She's gorceous ...

[tiki4]

@ChristianHJW:

I asked ookzDVD that before, you don't wanna know :D
Well, ookzDVD will tell for sure and maybe you know her, but maybe you do a short Google search (so did I). Surprise :D

@ookzDVD: Is she your girl friend or is it you?



OK, back to topic:

I'm using OGM for about half a year or even longer without any problems. The reason in the first place wasn't the chapter support or something like that, but I never was able to play AVI + 2x AC3 in my machine. Since Cyrius came up with his fabulous tools I can easily mux XviD + two AC3 audio streams into one file (The Fellowship SEE on 4 CD). Actually I take ogmuxer to mux the AC3 streams into .ogg files and put them into Koepi's OggMux (I'm very lazy). Splitting is very easy with ogmcutter of Cyrius, too. Cuts to the point. One CD rips can go with Ogg Vorbis around 96 kBit/s. Still sounds awesome and I can have to languages on one CD. Actually I never played much with XCD.

For subtitles I still keep DVobSub with external subtitles. IMHO the quality of the subtitles is much better as VobSub keeps the Bitmaps. SubRip is too lengthy to me.

All in all, I'd say OGM is for the moment the most flexible format.

@ChristianHJW: What's the status of matroska. When can we start to play with that stuff?

I made myself some MP4 again the last days for testing that praised 3ivx DS filters. I couldn't play a single file in MediaPlayer. The tools for MP4 are still a pain in the xxx. Until now I didn't find any single video player to play proper MP4 files on my machine and Quicktime or Real aren't an option (I don't like both players). I just ask because I wanted to test AAC in video files which still seems impossible. What about that in matroska? On HA someone mentioned MPC, but I must be dreaming.

Sorry for this long post.

Greetings,

tiki4

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by tiki4 @ChristianHJW: What's the status of matroska. When can we start to play with that stuff

libmatroska is ready in alpha 0.0.2 version and app developers like Suiryc ( VdubMod ) and Moritz Bunkus ( OGM Tools for Linux ) are playing with it, but still not all matroska elements have been implemented in it, while the EBML part is finished.

My personal guess is that we will start alpha testing in some basic configurations like XviD/MP3, XviD/Vorbis and XviD/Vorbis/USF end of this month.

spyder is currently coding a little app to convert SRT subs into USF subs already .... ;)

[rjamorim]

Originally posted by tiki4
Until now I didn't find any single video player to play proper MP4 files on my machine and Quicktime or Real aren't an option (I don't like both players).

http://www.envivio.com/products/etv/download.jsp

Always worked well here - better than QT indeed.

[AmiRage]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
My personal guess is that we will start alpha testing in some basic configurations like XviD/MP3, XviD/Vorbis and XviD/Vorbis/USF end of this month.... the end is already near. :D

Will it be a "public" alpha test?

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by AmiRage
... the end is already near. :D
Will it be a "public" alpha test?

Sorry, my bad, i didnt realize february hasnt started yet :D .... i was thinking end of february ... sorry for the confusion.

No, alpha testing will not be public in first step, but done in a closed alpha test group on http://corecodec.com, including Doom9 himself if he's still interested ;) .

Christian

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW

@OokzDVD : Who's that lady in your avatar mate ? She's gorceous ...
Off topic, sorry.
She is just a pornst*r... her name is Briana Banks. :)

[tiki4]

@rjamorim:

I know of envivioTV, but it also never worked out well for me. The video seems to run, well unusual. It seems the frames aren't smooth but just like a slide show. You can't see the single frames but to me it seems as if some frames in between are missing? About the rest, I tested them nearly all. mpegable for example makes the files unseekable and the player crashes really fast. As I said, I hoped for 3ivx, maybe next version. They should allow to decode the video part with another DS filter (ffdshow of course).

Thanks for listening again.

tiki4

[robUx4]

Once again a thread about OGG where matroska is mentioned ;)
They are going to hate us :D

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by tiki4 @ChristianHJW: What's the status of matroska. When can we start to play with that stuff? ... we were invited by a user to make a short status report about where we are now. Why would anybody want to hate us for replying ?

[tiki4]

Guess, that was me.

Actually I was quite happy when I read about the new MCF project a long time ago. Replacing that AVI sh** with something really powerful and new and shining seemed to be the right idea. Then I read: forking, new project matroska :mad:

Not that I don't like the name, but it seemed to me that much time has gone be since the first anouncement and then such a disappointing thing. Also it seems that not many developers are willing to support a new container format.

About OGM: Well it just was faster. But remember, OGM more or less solely relies on Tobias Waldvogel's OggDS filters, Koepi's OggMux and some tools by Cyrius (for the Windows platform). When I think how many people are developing things (Open Source or not), but also how diverted everything is (think of LAME, Ogg Vorbis, MP4, OGM, matroska, VirtualDub + VirtualDubMod and so on...) I sometimes get a little bit sad.

OK, forget everything I said.

tiki4

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by tiki4 Then I read: forking, new project matroska :mad: . Not that I don't like the name, but it seemed to me that much time has gone be since the first anouncement and then such a disappointing thing.
When I think how many people are developing things (Open Source or not), but also how diverted everything is (think of LAME, Ogg Vorbis, MP4, OGM, matroska, VirtualDub + VirtualDubMod and so on...) I sometimes get a little bit sad.


Opensource development is a very complicated animal i had to learn, its following strange and sometimes even nasty mechanisms. People are not earning money by doing it, so they just do it for fun. If the fun is gone they quit. Sad, but understandable. I often wonder why so many parallel developments exist in the opensource world, doing one and the same thing. Its mainly lack of communication between the 2 groups, or people's incapability to make compromises such that other people, wanting to work together on a common goal, are motivated to do so.

Also it seems that not many developers are willing to support a new container format.

Correct. They prefer to make quick hacks to existing standards. But thats how people are, and again its very typical for opensource development. Its very rarely happening that opensource developers unite to go a long and winding road to achieve something, like gstreamer people are doing now, developing a complete media framework for *nix.

You cant blame them for doing that, they want nice results, and quickly if ever possible. After all they are coding for fun, and working on something for weeks or months, without even having a first alpha in your hands, is not really so much fun at all, believe me ...

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
PS. Just wait for the next + .dts :)
^_^

[tiki4]

@ChristianHJW:

I fully understand what you are saying. I know that one can't change how things are. My post wasn't meant to critisize anybody. I am very much astonished about the people investing hours and hours of their spare time in those projects. I'd always liked the idea of doing something really acknowledged. Unfortunately my coding skills are solely in Fortran and all my attempts to program in any other language never came to something useful.

If you see how fast development goes on for example in XviD (they made of something crude like OpenDivX one of the best MPEG4 codecs out there in such a short time) or Linux/KDE/GNOME/Samba to name just a few, and on the other hand how slow the deprecated AVI gets replaced, it is also a little bit disappointing for us users.

Mainly when I think of Linux it seems strange to me that the non-native AVI format has gained the same de-facto standard as on Windows. Usually I think that the smaller Linux community is much more innovative. However maybe Home Video and the like are still in its childhood on Linux... but now there's a Linux forum and next time...

I just wanted to say that OGM is a temporal solution until something more fitting comes the way. MCF or now matroska could be that thing.

Please keep up the work on it and don't let it die like MCF did obviously.

Cheers,

tiki4

[robUx4]

Well, MCF is not dead, Tronic keeps on working on it and we still cooperate. So it wasn't a fork based on flame but based on technic.

For the successful OSS projects you mention, they are not new at all. I think all of them are 5 years old at least. Matroska is young, even if you add the time to make MCF (less than 2 years). The main difference is that we didn't go the usual way. We make the specs first, and try to think about everything for the future. And then (now) we code. While most projects start doing a working version, and then add things with time. Like adding video to the official OGG (something working exists, but it's not standard/specified yet).

That's why it may seem as too long to emerge or something like that. The problem is that we want to build a general purporse format. And so we need as much feedback as possible. We've been waiting for that feedback (and support) for a long time. Until we realised we had to ask more and more. And finally we got very few feedback. Hopefully we have progressed a lot from the original specs. And now the format look very robust and versatile. But sadly we can only be sure when more people with different background will have an eye on it. And that means having working code...

Not the best way to work, but hopefully it will work...

[ookzDVD]

@Cyrius,

Thank you :)

Now the we can mux .dts into .ogm :) with latest Cyrius's ogmuxer v1.1a4 :)

OGM rules! :))

[tiki4]

@ChristianHJW + robUx4:

Just wanted to say again, that I wish you very much success and hopefully you get much more feedback from the other coders out there. Of course robUx4 is right and the most Open Source projects I mentioned are quite old already. Maybe the times with the Open Source hype are finally finished and the industry looks for their bucks in return. I think what you are doing is very sensible. First think then do. I like to see the day when all your efforts are finally noticed by public. I think XviD and Ogg Vorbis made such noise that many other things in the surroundings just went unnoticed.

My best wishes to you and all programmers and hopefully I didn't offend anyone here.

tiki4

[robUx4]

Don't worry, when the tools are mature and features not found elsewhere start to appear, we will make some noise too :) It's just a matter of time (to code) now.