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pighead
17th January 2003, 03:42
Don't worry about me...i'm just being stupid......ha ha ha...I guess it is kind of hurtful seeing some of those replies...i realize doing this kind of work...it's inevitable to receive certain criticism...I just wasn't prepare for the degree of it.(Truth hurts I guess) But I still would love to do this, I guess it would help me and a lot of other people to do so, so far I know two other people who want to do this, so i guess we are it.
so first thing first, everyone, We need some help :D :

1)Apparently there's an easier way to show chinese traditional font to all kind of user(Chinese or Non-Chinese based platforms), please tell me how.

2)Since geocities is the only web account I can provide so in order to provide "chinese traditional" translation services for users in China would someone kindly provide us with a place to put all the pages, or tell us where to signup for one (keep in mind that I don't have Frontpage or any kind of web builder thing-y )...

3)I know I'm not an expert in java,I don't know if the other two team members are, or perhaps there's an English speaking htm expert who's willing to spend his/her time with us in building this translation site...I know my grammer sucks, but if you can understand this posting, it's highly possible that you can communicate with us,please let me know...muchas gracias!

Joey

p.s. I apologize for my rudness and offensive language and not following the forum rules and a lot of other things. If you want to kick me out, I understand:( ...oh, and big thanx fileman(for the encouragement), stay cool!:cool:

Scipio
17th January 2003, 11:43
Good idea,

perhaps you'll find support among 1 Billion Chinese people out there ;) But there's no need TO USE ALL CAPITALS IN YOUR TEXT. That's not very pleasant to read.

it's also a forum rule...
9) Use a title that describes the content of your post. Don't use all caps or special characters to draw attention.

Doom9
17th January 2003, 23:18
@scipio: I think there's a reason why people from Asian cultures often use all caps, I just don't know what the reason is.

@pighead: rest assured that your efforts are much welcome here and I'll try to recruit some volunteers for you by putting the link to this thread in the news for tomorrow.

Sadamitsu
18th January 2003, 01:41
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doom9
[B]@scipio: I think there's a reason why people from Asian cultures often use all caps, I just don't know what the reason is.

I don't know about Chinese, but when using the Japanese IME to type, you can only type western characters with caps unless you have the English IME installed.

fileman
18th January 2003, 16:11
I'd like to see a chinese translation of doom9.org very much! I've got some chinese friends, but they are all "noobs" in terms of Divx / SVCD /... stuff, so I'll not ask them to translate, but they could benefit a lot of the translated result (just look at these very poorly encoded kung fu movies all around ;-).

Regards, fileman.

nan1nan1
18th January 2003, 19:15
good idea..
but i think u'd better move ur site out of geocitie if u want ppl to see ur work,coz this site is banned in China :)

if u need any help,mailto: nan1nan1 at myrealbox dot com
good luck :)

Scipio
18th January 2003, 22:55
@nan1nan1:

if you want to offer your help, I'd suggest you write him an email or send him a PM... if he has to contact all volunteers he'll soon be annoyed. :)

Blkbird
19th January 2003, 18:07
I like to point out that current translation is in Taiwan Chinese. Not only does it use tranditional Chinese charaters (which is OK), but the sample frontpage translation also uses specific (non technical) phrases impossible to be understood by the majority of Chinese people. It would be a good idea to avoid them.

Btw, the translation of "DMCA" is clearly wrong.

Greetings,

Blkbird

fileman
19th January 2003, 18:20
Blkbird, perhaps you could help him with the translation, and try finding other Chinese people, too? If I could write chinese (I can only speak a little), I'd be very glad to do that translation, because really many people could benefit of this work!

Regards, fileman.

lyl797
20th January 2003, 04:18
Hi, Need translation to Chinese .... Let me help ...

I am a native Chinese guy ... speak fluent English and stay in USA for 15 years, now a USA citizen.

My e-mail LeonLien@adelphia.net ...

Write to me and let me know what I can help ...

LYL797

Jeff_happy
24th January 2003, 14:02
hi hi~

about the translation,

i'll be very happy to help u

Jeff_cry@hotmail.com


:)

fileman
24th January 2003, 14:22
Umm... seems like pighead doesn't want to organize this translation project anymore due to some replies that took away his motivation...

I would be very sad seeing this project dying, but I can't help very much, because I can't write chinese :-(

Perhaps Jeff_happy wants to start up again and organize this project? You seem to be motivated! Or how about lyl797?

I was involved with the german translation project, and I know: the hardest thing is the start. If you manage to do this, and people see you have invested some time (for example because they see there are some pages already translated), they will be motivated to help, too.

Surely your work will be honoured... think of the millions and millions of people who would be able to read them, and therefore encode better movies!

Regards, fileman.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

似乎象pighead 不要组织这个翻译项目再由于拿走了他的刺激的一
些回复。

我会是非常哀伤的看这个项目死, 但我不可能非常帮助, 因为我不
可能写中文 :-(

或许Jeff_happy 要再开始和组织这个项目? 你似乎被刺激! 或lyl797 怎么样?

我被介入了以德国翻译项目, 并且我知道: 最难的事是开始。 如果你设法做这, 并且人们看见你被投资某个时候(例如因为他们看
见有一些页已经被翻译), 他们将被刺激帮助, 也是。

肯定你的工作将被尊敬。.. 认为能读他们的成千上万和成千上万人, 并且输入因此更好的电影!

问候, fileman。

(I guess it's a rather bad translation... a machine did it for me *g*)

Scipio
25th January 2003, 14:19
@ pighead:

perhaps you should reply in a new message.
It's a bit unusual to edit the first posting, since new readers won't understand the following postings anymore... (for example my all capitals posting).

pighead
25th January 2003, 17:36
Sorry, won't do it again...
for new readers,
My first message was to inform everyone that i have a test chinese translation page that I started for doom9 (only the index, you didn't missed much, it was all wrong anyway:( )..oh this message was in all capitals, so it's against the rules and I didn't know...so I appologized for it and explained that it was because I got lazy and didn't swtch back from chinese Global IME in the second message.
My second message was to tell everyone that I had deleted that page due to certain problems, somepeople can't read the font, or because it was a geocities site , it is banned in china...etc. again, you didn't missed much.

intoxicated
27th January 2003, 05:15
hi everybody..
5 days of waiting after I registered to this forum.....
i can now finally post something....:D
but it seems pighead is not willing to continue the project...:confused:
i'd like to parcipitate in the chinese traslating project...
isn't it great to let every chinese know about doom9? :D
maybe we should talk about it on msn or icq...

andante
27th January 2003, 07:58
Hi~
like intoxicated,after waiting 5 days that i can finally post.. :D
and i'd like to help translating, too.
it seems that Pighead has some obstacles here...
i think the first step is most important,so these must be someone to lead the project...maybe intoxicated can? or maybe i can help..
lets talk on msn.:)
my msn:holygod777@seed.net.tw
but i'd like to ask a question about web space...i'm not sure that we must have our own webspace to put the translated web site or we can put it on doom9?

Doom9
27th January 2003, 10:48
if you have your own webspace that would be advantageous, however, if you can't find anything we can put it on a spare server of mine for starters. But eventually when you have tens of thousands of visitors every day you should find your own hosting so it can't hurt to look around. Downloads are (at least for the moment) hosted on my servers anyway and that makes out the bulk of the traffic.

andante
27th January 2003, 18:59
OK, i understand:) i'll find a webspace.
and there is a little problem...
since i'm a Taiwan citizen, i want to translate in Traditional Chinese, and China use Simplified Chinese. and there are other countries use Chinese...either Traditional or Simplified.
well, all i want to say is that we can't use a single flag to present the Chinese doom9 site. And the flag will be used in my doc-overview page and all language sites' frontpages.
So i think that's a problem...

fileman
27th January 2003, 19:21
I don't think this is a big problem ;-)

Just place a "blank" page between the language selection flag on doom9.org and the two "real" chinese translation projects. On this "blank" page are two links, one for simplified and one for traditional ...
I've asked a friend of mine to translate a few pages (to make a start) with my help... funny thing - she doesn't know very much about the stuff we're doing at doom9, and I don't know much about chinese, but together it will probably work :-) This will be simplified chinese, because she's from the "continent".

Webspace won't be a big problem, too - at the beginning. Later on somebody should find good + cheap webspace in China/Taiwan.

Regards, fileman.

P.S.: I'm very busy these days, but in two to three weeks I'll have more free time. Feel free to contact me via e-Mail (f.i.l.e.man AT gmx.net) or via PM.

Doom9
27th January 2003, 19:52
I'm sure we can find a way to incorporate two Chinese versions of my site. Forgive my ignorance, but is there any relationship between traditional/simplified chinese and cantonese/mandarin (yeah, I know, that's completely off topic but I've always wondered).
Is there any prototype country using traditional Chinese? Maybe we could do something like we do with the English version... we use the British flag as a lowest common denominator for all countries having English as the official language.
And as I said, temporary webspace is no problem, I rather see the project get started than people looking for hosting all over the place. But then again it can't hurt to have a provider you can rely on so you won't have to go looking for another hosting when you should be coordinating translations.

fileman
27th January 2003, 20:09
@doom9

Mandarin and Cantonese are the two main spoken dialects in China (Mandarin is the "official", Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong). All thousands of dialects in China do have the same written signs. There was a "simplification project" during the 60s or 70s, where the Chinese government simplified some (many) signs, so they were easier to write, being typed, and so on. However Taiwan, as it always doesn't want to do what the Chinese government wants, ;) didn't switch to these simplified signs, and so today there are two ways of writing in China. Although many Chinese (from the continent) people can read traditional signs (because they are in older books and so on), but people from Taiwan and others often can't read these simplified ones...

Regards, fileman.

Scipio
27th January 2003, 20:12
But then again it can't hurt to have a provider you can rely on so you won't have to go looking for another hosting when you should be coordinating translations.

He's perfectly right here, believe me. :(

It's not funny if you can't be happy about increasing visitor number because of additional costs from traffic overusage...
German Doom9 also had these problems till today. Now we're entering a new era of (hopefully) troublefree hosting.


@ Doom9 and all other translators:

may I bring your attention to my question in this thread?
=> http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27697&pagenumber=2

andante
28th January 2003, 03:45
@fileman
That's right :) , but may i have some opinions here :rolleyes:
I think the written words or written languages is about one nation's culture, it can't be easily changed without consideration...all chinese words are evolved from pictograph, each has it's means....
By the way, Simplified chinese is not too hard for taiwan people...if see them frequently :p

@Doom9
Maybe we can use Taiwan R.O.C flag....althought few people know, but Taiwan is a Country :D , and is the main country using traditional Chinese.

Doom9
28th January 2003, 21:56
@andante: that's an idea.. but I need to gauge possible reactions of continental Chinese people before I could go for it. I know in the political area it's a big nono to consider Taiwan as an independent state and the last thing I would want is to step on anybody's toes. I only care to bring my site to a broader audience and not to make any political statement.

andante
29th January 2003, 02:08
ya...so i think the flag is a problem...

I've just put the website to a webspace in taiwan, and translated few pages. Here is the URL:
http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/
if anyone can't see the page or have low speed just tell me, and any suggestion for translation plz also tell me, thx!!:)

epere4
29th January 2003, 03:26
Originally posted by andante
ya...so i think the flag is a problem...

I've just put the website to a webspace in taiwan, and translated few pages. Here is the URL:
http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/
if anyone can't see the page or have low speed just tell me, and any suggestion for translation plz also tell me, thx!!:)
Well, I had no problem reaching the site, but the external links are wrong (almost all). They link to http://some_site/default.htm and not every site uses a default.htm page as a default (spanish site uses index.html, for example). So you should put only http://some_site/ (where some_site is the name of the site you want to link to, of course).

CU

Doom9
29th January 2003, 19:46
it works here as well, yet there's a problem with the look. The news table is rather small and the 3 small boxed to the right eat up all the space. I think the link may have had something to do with the software used to grab the site.. but epere is correct, they will of course have to be corrected.
Another presentation issue are the flags.. they aren't centered, and the left frame shows a scrollbar (you have to make it a couple pixels larger). I know, just minor issues but then again looks are important and after all this is a one time thing.
Then you can get started on the document overview page.
By the way, what other countries are using traditional Chinese? Is there any distinctive sign that would allow people to differ between the two Chinese? I saw THG has two Chinese signs for their two Chinese versions

pighead
30th January 2003, 08:05
Taiwan is not a country...There's no official document for this...just because the current president or party in office wants it to be so...doesn't make it so...

Traditional chinese are chosen because they represent thousand of years of culture development...I'm not about to throw my heritage and history away...may not always be proud of them....but they are in my blood...

...I can read simplified chinese just fine...I think most of the people from taiwan would agree, too.

Traditional chinese is used in Hong Kong (but now they are converting to simplified since the "transition"), Singapore (amongst the Chinese community there), Taiwan(of course) and many other parts of Asia...it's art...if you ever see Chinese words...

an extra language selection sounds like a great idea...my vote's here, no doubt, there's a large population who reads simplified chinese...and i do believe that we are all Chinese...

um...as for Cantonese, there are some words and phrases that are special for Cantonese(not used in mandarine written language)...maybe we can add some of those, too, to spice things up...(i think most of the Taiwanese people are pretty familiar with Hong Kong current fashion, they'll be able to understand...)or maybe they can start another page, too.

we can all understand each other's words...but a familiar language always speaks better...

is there an expert in the terminology department...to look up the official translation for special terms, it'll be easiear to remember those then trying to remember the english vocab...
while we are on the subject, I do believe it is essential to stay true to the origial doom9, but chinese and english are language with different base; the grammer, for one thing, are two completely different things...i hope we can all agree that for a chinese sentence to make sense(translated from english)it must contain certain variations(rather than a collection of fragments of phrases as it often becomes when use direct word-to-word translation)...there's no one right translation...what do we do about that, if disagreement arises????

guess we are making some progress...in a way...
p.s. please don't reply any comment about my personal political view, i'm not trying to change you, and I'm pretty stubborn...i just wanted to say it, is all

oh, about the flag perhaps we can use いゅ(Chinese) as a .gif in the same size as the flags, I do believe it's the same for both Simplied and Traditional Chinese.

andante
30th January 2003, 10:39
external links are fixed, and
@Doom9
about news table and 3 small box to the right, i don't know what browser and resolution you use, but i use IE6 with 800x600 or 1024x768 and have no such problems....or maybe u didn't download chinese big5 code?
About left frame i only have vertical scrollbar in 800x600 mode, but i made words smaller anyway.

@Pighead
I think there are many specific terms dont have standard or official translation in chinese, maybe we can make a reasonable translation and also put the original english term aside...and althought everyone's translation maybe different, if it make sence and everyone can understand it, i think that's allright...beside, i'll go some chinese forums about DVD ripping, find the proper translation and then do some proofreading works.
Finally, my english is not so good, so if any translations is not proper just correct me.:)
oh, and i think the いゅ(chinese) flag is a good idea, too.

Jeff_happy
30th January 2003, 17:42
haha... finally i finished my school assignment :p
and looks like pighead is not doing it~

nice one from andante!

i will also try something on it in the chinese new year :sly:

fileman
30th January 2003, 20:31
Yes, of course... I nearly forgot!

I wish you a happy chun jie!!
http://www.showgood.com/new/mtv_full.htm

Regards, fileman.

Doom9
30th January 2003, 20:36
@andante: it was partially a fonts problem. I've installed support for far eastern languages and now I do get Chinese symbols instead of some garbage. However, the space between the news table and the two boxes to the right is still large (IE6SP1 with all patches, 1280x1024 resolution). I've also tried mozilla 1.3alpha where the space is okay but the English fonts look horrible (they are quite different from the original font in IE as well.. but then again we want to see Chinese pages, not English ones so I guess that one doesn't matter much). This font issue only concerns the main page btw, all other documents are fine with stylesheet and everything.

It would probably make sense to come up with a common terminology and use this throught the translations.. especially when different people are translating different parts of a guide (for instance, the dvd2avi guide is used in many guides). I believe the Greek team also had to define additional language and character related issues because they're not using latin characters.

@pighead: Word by word translation can definitely not be the solution. I have been making some translations myself (glossary, FAQs, capture guide) and in quite a lot of instances did I have to turn sentences completely around. You also have to adapt the style to the cultural background of your target audience

pighead
31st January 2003, 02:43
cool, everyone seems so nice...
this is gonna be fun...
um..my English is not good either, one of my English Professor in college basically told me to go back to Taiwan...anyway

how are we gonna divide up the work, do we have enough people to just each pick one section?

:rolleyes: ...pighead sounds better in chinese...

as for showing chinese font...I guess even though most people who will be interested in reading the chinese translation should already have chinese support but there are various problems...
IE 5 has it's own IME but just for win98...IE 6 has some weird thing that sometimes messes computer up...win 2000 was a challenge and so far xp still can't support other input methods other than english...(those are what i have experienced for english based system :confused: but maybe there's an easier way and someone knows how to do it)
it wouldn't be a bad idea to have sort of an instruction page(included in the FAQ) readable to everyone on how they
should go about enabling their system to read chinese...(some of my ABC friend are very interested in browsing materials in chinese but they never could figure out how.)

if there's not much space available
perhaps each selection in the menu can be image files, while others such as news can still be in text...it may take longer to load but at least everyone(chinese platform or not) can see something...:D

andante
31st January 2003, 08:33
@Doom9:The problem of space between news table and right is fixed, it's my carelessness :p

@Pighead:About how non-chinese computer can see chinese, i think it's not quite complicated. Press IE's View->Coding then choosing Traditional Chinese(Big5), if you dont have the code, IE will ask you to download it. I think when you go to some other languages' webpages, this will work, too, isn't it?
And about chinese input for winXP,here (http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/ime/6.0/NT5XP/TW/TINTSETP.MSI) you can download it.
About divide up the work, when i finish the doc-overview page, you can choose what page you want to translate then tell me, i'll mark that page with "translation in process" flag.

And finally,Happy chinese new year to everybody:D . I'll quite busy this days, lots work to do like cleaning house..visiting relatives..etc.;)

fileman
31st January 2003, 08:48
As far as I am informed, many Chinese people use NJStar Communicator (shareware, but usable forever with nag screen) to INput Chinese characters on other OS than Chinese... and this program also enables displaying Chinese characters. It's also possible to input Chinese signs with Windows XP, at least with the German version - don't know if it's possible with the English version (but I would expect it is!).
But perhaps it would be enough to direct people to the NJStar-homepage, if they can't read the page properly (of course we have to test then, if the site is displayed correctly with NJStar). Of course most people will be from China, Taiwan and other Chinese speaking/familiar countries, where people run a Chinese OS and don't have problems with viewing Chinese content at all.

As for now, the Chinese-traditional-site looks like to be translated soon :-) many people seem to be here, ready for translating. But how about simplified? Anybody here? I only can give a start - I think I'll not be able to translate special words like "bidirectional encoding" and stuff with the help of a woman whose native language is Chinese, but who isn't very much into video encoding and so on... would be good to see some (simplified) Chinese writing supporters out there :-)

Regards, fileman.

Doom9
31st January 2003, 12:41
@andante: Looks good now (and interestingly the PC at work correctly displays the Chinese symbols without having to install any extras). I see you've already translated the volunteer and contact pages. It may be a good idea to note that the email addresses provided on the contact page are for the English site only - I've gotten emails destined for a translation project rather than my own site when my email addresses were still on that page. Upon becoming an official mirror the coordinator is eligible for one @doom9.org email account so you could use that.

@pighead: you're correct about the name, it does sound kinda brutal. In the beginning I thought I just misread the name.

@fileman: Once the traditional Chinese mirror goes live I'll also put out a call for volunteers to do a simplified Chinese translation.

pighead
1st February 2003, 02:34
Andante 竒秨﹍陆亩盾? ぃ㎡?...:p oh...и稱暗The Basics场だ...癬ㄓ钩ゑ耕虏虫:D 盾?

睫繷:cool:

opal
1st February 2003, 04:23
@fileman
I'd like to help you with the simplified-Chinese translation.:)
I think these "bidirectional encoding" words should remain in English. If you translate them into Chinese, then few people can understand it. You could explain these words, but you should not change it.
这些词汇的硬译只能导致错误理解。毕竟我们大多数人的专业都不是图象处理吧。

fileman
1st February 2003, 11:56
Yes, I thought something like that - perhaps make a huge glossary, where all these words and phrases are explaned in Chinese, but leave them in English in the text.
Ok opal, as soon as I'm going to start over, I'll contact you via PM.

Regards, fileman.

Jeff_happy
1st February 2003, 15:20
jsut put up one
http://home.pchome.com.tw/guide/doom9/

see if it helps to everyone

pighead
1st February 2003, 17:50
Jeff_happy 陆亩Professional!:D

andante
1st February 2003, 19:37
well....I've just finished some other pages and doc-overview page (http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9/doc-overview.htm) , which explained how to translate and how to contact me, you can choose which page you want to translate and then inform me, i suggest start at basic guides.
and @Jeff_happy, you did good but i think there are pages that didn't translate completely....so i suggest you just start translating guide pages, and i'll do the rest general site relative pages...sorry.

@Doom9:You mean that i can get a @doom9.org mail account? Then thanks a lot :D I've already explain which is from original english pages and also add some my own information in those pages.

Doom9
1st February 2003, 20:30
@andante: as it looks now you're the coordinator for the traditional Chinese translation so yes, you will get an @doom9.org email account (the name before the @ is up to you provided you don't chose anything that is already existing).

Are you not going to translate the titles of the guides and the descriptions if there are any (on the doc overview)?

tin852
4th February 2003, 06:46
и常稱把籔
I am going to participate in this

andante
4th February 2003, 08:38
OK~everybody
If you want to participate in Traditional Chinese translation project, please go tohttp://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9 first, decide which articles you want to translate and then contact me. Thanks!:D

Clarice
4th February 2003, 13:49
Happy Spring Festival to all :D
This is my first post in the Forum so that i wish i could get a pleasant start. :D

@doom9:
My friends and I are very interested in the Simplified Chinese Translation. :) We are a union of students from PRC which is named "BT Union" :p Some of us are from Tsinghua Univ, some from Beijing Univ and some from the other universities all over the China. I think that we do have the capability to do this translation :p

mrly
4th February 2003, 16:36
Happy Spring Festival to all ,too :)

I used to read the articles from Doom9 site often,but I didn't register my id in the forum.

So this is also my first post in the forum.

I am a member of BT Union.When I talked to my friends of BT Union about the Simplified Chinese Translation,many people showed great interests in it. We have enough ability in English and enough time. So,we think we have the capacity to take on the task.

Can we join the Simplified Chinese Translation project?

I am from South China University of Technology,hehe.
:rolleyes:

__________________
:)--=BT Union=-- ~mrly of SCUT~ :)

opal
4th February 2003, 17:27
@mrly:
@Clarice:
Happy to see you BTer here:)
We should work together to make it.
btw, ur forum is great:)

Doom9
4th February 2003, 18:09
okay, let me sum this up, it's getting more and more confusing.

Traditional Chinese: Andante is the coordinator, contact him to participate or visit the homepage at http://home.kimo.com.tw/big5_doom9 It contains a translated document overview and info on how to get in touch and sign up for a translation.
Members of the translation team / potentially interested people:
pighead
lyl797
Jeff_happy
intoxicated
tin852

Simplified Chinese: No coordinator appointed yet, no site as of yet.
Potential translators:
nan1nan1
opal
fileman
Clarice
mrly
netlife
and other BT Union members

Please forgive me if I accidentally put you in the wrong category. I think it's about time we split this thread up to enable easier separation of the two projects.

@tin852: There's no need for another Traditional Chinese page. Please get intouch with andante to coordinate your efforts.
I saw you have two versions of the main site, is one in Simplified Chinese? What about the two signs you've used to make the difference, could they potentially be used to differentiate the two translation projects?

@Clarice, mrly: Good to hear there are motivated people out there. Currently what we're lacking is a project coordinator so I'm looking for volunteers. A project coordinator is the one pulling all the strings behind a translation project, he/she handles translation assignments, proof-reads documents before putting them online and often also translates the news (though it's possible to separate news and guide management). You'd also need an ad-free webspace. Downloads will be provided by the main site so you don't have to worry about too much traffic. If you can't find a place I could temporarily provide some space on one of my servers but in the long run you'll have to find your own hosting (shouldn't be too hard once you've gained a certain popularity, the German team just recently got a new hosting after having had some problems in the past).

Also, don't forget to check out the three sticky threads in this forum, they will help you get started. As you can see, myself and coordinators of other projects still hang out here and we'll try our best to help if there are any problems / questions.

netlife
4th February 2003, 18:10
My first post here.

:D

Regards.

tin852
5th February 2003, 03:12
@Doom9: I've contacted andante and now start to translate. That site is created before our coordinator is selected, so I just create it and test. The front page is also a testing page to see if UTF-8 unicode is working and if coordinator want, he can use anything in my site. I welcome any usage of the materials in my site.

nan1nan1
5th February 2003, 03:27
@doom9

i'm sorry to say that u put me in the wrong team:D:D

i'll help out to translate the Simplified Chinese version
and contact other team members ASAP.

Regards.

Clarice
5th February 2003, 05:06
@doom9
it's spring festival now in China so that most of my associates can't start the project immediately... :rolleyes: sorry for this, but we need some time to prepare... :( i'll contact opal,nan1nan1 &fileman, and after the project coordinator is appointed i hope we can start it as soon as the new term starts :D
Regards :)

NetElephant
5th February 2003, 11:11
Originally posted by Clarice
@doom9
it's spring festival now in China so that most of my associates can't start the project immediately... :rolleyes: sorry for this, but we need some time to prepare... :( i'll contact opal,nan1nan1 &fileman, and after the project coordinator is appointed i hope we can start it as soon as the new term starts :D
Regards :)

I am a member of BT Union, I am glad to do this project with my teammates
and I am sure that we have the ability to complete this project.
We are students of Bachelor, Master and Ph.D candidate.
I am a Ph.D candidate of Xi'an Jiaotong University.
Regards :):D

Doom9
5th February 2003, 12:09
well...I hope you enjoy the festivities. How long are they going to last?

nan1nan1
5th February 2003, 15:26
Originally posted by Doom9
well...I hope you enjoy the festivities. How long are they going to last?

dun worry about it :)
it's the fifth day,and three days left :)

Clarice
5th February 2003, 15:26
@doom9:
The new term will start on Feb.17th in Tsinghua Univ... i hope that it won't be too late... ;)

NetElephant
5th February 2003, 16:00
Originally posted by nan1nan1
dun worry about it :)
it's the fifth day,and three days left :)

nod, but we will be back at school fifteenth this month,
so i think we will begin the Simplified Chinese Project
in the middle term of this month.
just like Clarice said, we hope it will not be too late.
:D:D

hi, i think we have solve the problem of webspace,
we may temporarily put our pages on the Cernet(China
Education and Research Network), and we will set up
a public sever in China later. maybe have both run,
or maybe shut down the Cernet server when the public
server works.

Doom9
6th February 2003, 14:35
It's good to know that you've already a solution for the hosting, and don't worry about the start date, it's not too late. Enjoy the rest of your celebrations and the holidays (I presume you have some holidays in between terms, don't you?).

NetElephant
6th February 2003, 16:42
I'm glad to tell you that we've got a public webspace now,
which has 100M bps connection, dual P3 1.13G, 1G Memory. I think
it will reach the ability to provide service.

And I want to use china.doom9.org or cn.doom9.org to direct to our
web server. Could you tell me whether you provide the domain name
or we will do it by ourselves?

Finally, I want to know that if we have started the project,
would you like using the Five-Star Red Flag which is the
national flag of P.R.C?

yes, we will have holiday in between terms. However, it won't
interrupt the project. Don't worry about it.

Regards:)

nan1nan1
6th February 2003, 16:58
Originally posted by NetElephant

And I want to use china.doom9.org or cn.doom9.org to direct to our
web server. Could you tell me whether you provide the domain name
or we will do it by ourselves?


how about sc.doom9.org? sc stands for Simplified Chinese
and tc.doom9.org for Traditional Chinese version.

NetElephant
6th February 2003, 18:08
Originally posted by nan1nan1
how about sc.doom9.org? sc stands for Simplified Chinese
and tc.doom9.org for Traditional Chinese version.

No, I don't agree.
It's not clear to note that this page's language is chinese.
I think the www.doom9.cn is the best, but we need money to
register it.

Doom9
6th February 2003, 20:36
well.. you can have any doom9.org and doom9.net subdomain you'd like or you can of course also register your own domain. I'm not sure if you have to be a resident of China to register .cn domains (regulations for country specific domains depend on your country's regulations on the matter) but if you'd like an own domain maybe we can come to a financial agreement (domain registration isn't that expensive and after all what are donations good for... the page states to ensure continued existence and make it better).

As for the flag, I need to know the relationship between flag and traditional Chinese. We've been discussing flags or signs that would let somebody determine the language but haven't come to a conclusion yet. As you may know, we use the UK flag for the English version of the page, and the Spanish one for the Spanish translation (despite the original webmaster being located in Argentina if I'm not mistaken). So, what will people think when they see the Chinese flag? Not ignorant n00bs like me who before this thread didn't even know there were two Chinese languages, but people who are familiar with either Chinese. Now when I see the PRC flag I will know that the language should be simplified Chinese, but is this a universal feeling? Say someone coming from a different country that uses simplified Chinese (are there any such countries?), will he/she know to click on the PRC flag to get to a translated site he/she'll understand? If so then by all means using that flag would work. If not, are there any symbols to identify the language? Maybe the word Chinese written using traditional or simplified symbols?

Scipio
6th February 2003, 23:14
why would you want to use "china.doom9.org" as opposed to "chinese.doom9.org" like all the other mirros which have the language in their name and not the country (german, spanish, french.doom9.org).

thinking of that, I wonder which subdomain the second Chinese mirror will get... "tw.doom9.org" or "taiwanese.doom9.org"? hmm... ;)

NetElephant
7th February 2003, 03:12
Originally posted by Scipio
why would you want to use "china.doom9.org" as opposed to "chinese.doom9.org" like all the other mirros which have the language in their name and not the country (german, spanish, french.doom9.org).

thinking of that, I wonder which subdomain the second Chinese mirror will get... "tw.doom9.org" or "taiwanese.doom9.org"? hmm... ;)

so, chinese.doom9.org is not bad.:)

NetElephant
7th February 2003, 03:35
@doom9
Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese are not two different
languages. They are two different handwritings of Chinese.

As for the flag, I don't want to take political discussion.
But I have to say that P.R.C is the only representation to
China in U.N. So I think the flag should be our Five-Star
Red Flag without doubt.

Just like you say, how about Traditional Chinese?
In my opinion, we may link the chinese.doom9.org to a entrance
page which contains two links separately directed to
sc and tc. hehe, it's just a suggestion to let us discuss.

We've begun to translate and got a chinese public web space
yesterday. I hope you will see our sample page soon:D:D

Regards:D

epere4
7th February 2003, 05:20
Originally posted by Doom9
Spanish one for the Spanish translation (despite the original webmaster being located in Argentina if I'm not mistaken).
That is right. Despite the fact that I love my country flag(Argentina), I decided that the Spanish flag describes better that the site is in Spanish.

I support the idea of putting just one link (maybe with chinese flag)to chinese.doom9.org and there two links: One for sc.doom9.org (simplified) and the other to tc.doom9.org (traditional).
So you can have a common adress for the site, but then, when people get used to it, the can just tpye the right adress to get directly where they want.

Of course, this is only a suggestion.

CU

opal
7th February 2003, 06:43
Originally posted by NetElephant
so, chinese.doom9.org is not bad.:)
maybe gb.doom9.org and big5.doom9.org? :)
These can lead to a better understanding.

fileman
7th February 2003, 11:00
Just like you say, how about Traditional Chinese?
In my opinion, we may link the chinese.doom9.org to a entrance
page which contains two links separately direct to
sc and tc. hehe, it's just a suggestion to let us discuss.


That's what I suggested quite a long time before. There are many other pages which work like that...

Regards, fileman.

NetElephant
7th February 2003, 15:54
Hi, here is our Simplified Chinese site:
http://210.82.176.18/
There is only the first sample page on it now.
We will set up our S.C. site on this server.

As for the domain name, we can use chinese.doom9.org
direct to a entrance page and gb.doom9.org refer to
our simplified pages, big5.doom9.org refer to traditional
site. How about this doom9?
;) ;)

Doom9
7th February 2003, 16:02
works fine for me. It appears to be an IP based host so I could add A records without any problems. Should I put the entry page on my own servers or would you prefer to have it somewhere else (your server?)? There's also a problem with the news table right now.. it's too small (and somehow Chinese Symbols are only displayed in the left frame). Also, the links in the left frame load in the left frame, not the right one.

What do gb and big5 stand for by the way?

NetElephant
7th February 2003, 16:25
@doom9

Don't worry about the problems. This is only the sample one on it.
I have fixed the problem now.

I have a question which want to ask you. What's the specific meaning
of backup in Welcome to Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource? Thanks.

We may keep the entrance page on our site. So:
http://chinese.doom9.org to http://210.82.176.18/entrance.html
http://gb.doom9.org to http://210.82.176.18/
http://big5.doom9.org to Traditional Chinese Pages.

Regards:)

Doom9
7th February 2003, 16:32
I have a question which want to ask you. What's the specific meaning
of backup in Welcome to Doom9.net - The definitive DVD backup resource? Thanks
Well.. most of my site is about making copies of DVDs, right? So I guess you could write ripping resource but then ripping isn't a well defined term and some consider it as descrambling (as in de-css), others as the whole process from DVD to the end result (DivX, (S)VCD, DVD-R). And, since in accordancy with most national copyright laws you may only copy DVDs if you are the legal owner of the disc in question, your copy is in fact a backup of the original... thus we get the definitive dvd backup resource. Needless to say that ripping resource or copying resource would also lead to unwanted associations.

Clarice
7th February 2003, 17:06
@doom9:
GB and Big5 are all Chinese character codings used in computer,while the GB coding stands for the Simplified Chinese character and the Big5 for the Traditional Chinese character.
the Big5 coding can't be transferred in 7bit net system directly.

Kennyshin
7th February 2003, 22:39
Originally posted by pighead
Traditional chinese is used in Hong Kong (but now they are converting to simplified since the "transition"), Singapore (amongst the Chinese community there), Taiwan(of course) and many other parts of Asia...it's art...if you ever see Chinese words...

And most South Koreans can read Traditional Chinese. ;)

For thousands of years, Koreans have used Chinese as the official character. Since a little more than five centuries ago, Han-Gul (Han-Korean Letter)has been in use together with Chinese.

There's also Japan.

Anyway, I am glad to see that these Chinese (both Traditional and Simplified) translation projects are initiated, the first among all East Asian peoples! Very many of my friends and school mates (mostly Chinese major at Hankuk University of Foreign Studies) in Seoul, South Korea, studied in Bei-Jing, Harebin, Guang-Jou, and other mainland Chinese cities.

The Chinese New Year's Day holiday is also the biggest holiday in most South Korean families, including mine.

Scipio
7th February 2003, 23:14
some thoughts:

sc.doom9.org and tc.doom9.org is free of associations in contrast to "big5" where the "big" could lead to some assumptions or misunderstandings...
besides, sc and tc is very short :) but that's of course your decision which subdomains you want.

one remark about the site where you select between the two: it should really be hosted by Doom9 himself IMHO.
If this site is not hosted on Doom9.org and the Chinese mirror that hosts that selection site goes offline, the other Chinese site would also be down... so both sites would be down just because the selection site is down - bad idea. ;)


and instead of using flags: perhaps you could use two symbols in TC and SC to describe your country? Perhaps there's a short symbol (a character of your font) that could be used instead of a flag? (that would make this selection site superfluous.

opal
8th February 2003, 01:29
@Scipio:
Here is a character which means "Simplified Chinese".

opal
8th February 2003, 01:37
And here is a character which means "Traditional Chinese".
Hope these can solve the flag problem.

nan1nan1
8th February 2003, 04:08
@opal

i think Scipio wont see the difference unless u show him the same charactor with two different writings:p

pighead
8th February 2003, 04:13
Looks like andante has translated the majority of Doom9...only some more in the following category needs more translation...wow that's fast...
DMCAだ猂 毙厩ゅ彻 盽ǎ拜肈 盡Τ迭 膀娄醚

@andante-but this is only from the site that you previously posted...is there any page that you are currently working on...

Why don't you list the one's that you haven't done...so we know how to help...

opal
8th February 2003, 04:16
@nan1nan1
we are talking about the flags, not the difference between the writings.

mrly
8th February 2003, 04:58
I think we had better have a flag to stand for our language.When we click the flag,we will enter another page,you can select gb or big5 there.It's my idea.:)

GB and BIG5 is easy to understand for the Chinese.Maybe our Foreign Friends like sc and tc,but it's not fit for the Chinese people.:cool:

NetElephant
8th February 2003, 05:12
Thanks Scipio and others for your suggestions;)

I agree that we put the entry page on doom9's site.

As for flag, Chinese language come from China and people
seeing the Five-Star Red Flag will konw that link is to
chinese mirror. When they click the link, they will go
to the entry page. So they will choose the sc or tc site.
People who want to see chinese mirror must know GB character
and Big5 character by default. It won't make a misunderstanding.

Clarice
8th February 2003, 06:07
Originally posted by NetElephant

People who want to see chinese mirror must know GB character
and Big5 character by default. It won't make a misunderstanding.
yeah that's it. don't worry about this. "GB" and "Big5" is the common knowledge for the people who are interested in Chinese and computer. ;)

andante
8th February 2003, 06:40
@Pighead : I'm working on Glossary part, and some others are working at Divx5 basic and Subtitles...you can refer to doc-overview(ゅン) page. I'll go back to school tomorrow after the Chinese new year festival, and I'll translate more quickly and i'll also recruit more people to translate. :p

And about the flag, i don't think the five star flag is appropriate, people who use Traditional Chinese don't think the five star page will lead them to a Traditional Chinese page, because china people use Simplified Chinese.
so i think if we can use a "chinese" flag like this http://mis.ccu.edu.tw/~holygod/ch.gif in mainpage and lead people to a portal page which can choose Simplified Chinese or Traditional Chinese.

regards:)

Clarice
8th February 2003, 07:12
Originally posted by andante
because china people use Simplified Chinese.

what do you mean by this sentence? :p
do you think Chinese people have thrown Traditional Chinese all?
China is the cradle of all Chinese characters, and of coz most of us can read Traditional Chinese. :D
so i don't think there's any problem to use our Five-Star Red Flag :)

NetElephant
8th February 2003, 07:17
@andante
No, I don't agree!!

There's only One China in the world, and that flag
refers to PRC, stands for our country and also to our culture
including charactors such as simplifiled Chinese and traditional
Chinese. Of Coz we can share the Five-star flag.

Other mirrors all use the original country's flag to
represent their languages. Chinese language origined from
China. So we must use the national flag of P.R.C to the
chinese both simplified and traditional.

是呀,我们平时使用简体中文,但是,
我們也能閲讀繁體中文,一點問題都沒有。

Regards

Kennyshin
8th February 2003, 15:49
North Koreans also speak and write different Korean from South Koreans. Of course, there are very few North Koreans who ever come to Doom9.org.

As I said earlier, not only Taiwanese read Traditional Chinese. Koreans and Japanese can read some of them, too, though they have their own characters as well. Some South Koreans can read Chinese better than they can read English as learning the Chinese characters had for millenia been required to all literate people and sometimes legally obligatory at schools.

To choose only one out of two (or more) Chinese characters or flags will always lead to the same arguments.

Moreover, both the Chinese characters used in Taiwan and in mainland China are different from those used in Japan and in South Korea, to a different degree. It needs pan-Asian cooperation as the Chinese character does NOT belong only to the Chinese people just as English does not belong only to England or only to the United States.

There are also Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and so on.

I agree to andante and I also agree that this thread should be split into two separate threads to discuss each. One for Simplified Chinese and the other for Traditional Chinese. PRC national flag may be used for the Simplified Chinese link and ROC national flag may be used for the Traditional Chinese link.

PRC = mainland China (People's Republic of China)
ROC = Taiwan (Republic of China)

PRK = North Korea (People's Republc of Korea, or DPRK, for Democratic People's Republic of Korea)
ROK = South Korea (Republic of Korea)

I also have difficulty in understanding the North Korean language in both speech and writing. PRK also has its own national flag.

opal
8th February 2003, 16:15
@Kennyshin:
Taiwan is NOT a country and it will never be.
YOU ARE NOT CHINESE, SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TALK ABOUT OUR OWN AFFAIRS.

Doom9
8th February 2003, 16:26
@opal: please be nice to each other, there's no need for screaming.

So far your solution with the two different symbols that stand for traditional and simplified chinese seems to be the best shot. It avoids any political reprecussions that could occur when having to chose a flag for Traditional Chinese. Please keep in mind that I'm not interested in making politics with this.. and the PRC - ROC discussion should be left to politicians.
Alternatively, use the Symbol for Traditional Chinese for the Traditional Chinese and the PRC flag for Simplified Chinese. I'd assume people speaking Chinese would know that Simplified Chinese is used in the PRC.

@andante: what do these symbols stand for?

Oh, and by the way, I'll be adding alt tags to the links anyway so if you hover over a symbol/flag for a second or so an English text would be displayed.

Clarice
8th February 2003, 16:30
Originally posted by Kennyshin

I agree to andante and I also agree that this thread should be split into two separate threads to discuss each. One for Simplified Chinese and the other for Traditional Chinese. PRC national flag may be used for the Simplified Chinese link and ROC national flag may be used for the Traditional Chinese link.

PRC = mainland China (People's Republic of China)
ROC = Taiwan (Republic of China)


I'm sorry to remind you that there's only one China in the U.N. which is the People's Republic of China. :) I don's think that any of us want to bring any political problems to our http://www.doom9.org, but can you imagine what will happen when the Chinese people see the so-called ROC flag on this site?
It's not good for us, not good for Doom9 either. :(
Well, as a girl, i don't like politics, but there's something i'll stick to. So will my partners.
Finally, though we don't use Traditional Chinese Characters widely in the mainland nowadays, here is the cradle of it. So, please don't separate it from China. The whole world is shareing it.

Regards :)

opal
8th February 2003, 16:38
@doom9 and all others:
sorry for the inconvenience.
But we really have something we must stick to, as Clarice said.

PS: the image u asked means "Chinese"

Doom9
8th February 2003, 16:53
Okay, I have gone ahead and created one thread for each Chinese translation, please continue discussion there. Your main jobs have been listed. I'll create a separate thread regarding the flag issue shortly.

Traditional Chinese Thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=257731#post257731
Simplified Chinese Thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45388

andante
8th February 2003, 17:31
YES, you all have something to stick to, and ME, TOO!
I didn't and i don't want to bring political issues here, but you all have strong political intention.....i just say that the five star flag can only represent Simplified Chinese pages and not suitable for Traditional Chinese, maybe someone still use Traditional Chinese in PRC, but Simplified Chinese is the main written word in PRC, so using PRC flag can't represent both Traditional and Simplified Chinese page and people who use Traditional Chinese can't agree with that, too.

Kennyshin
8th February 2003, 23:00
Originally posted by opal
@Kennyshin:
Taiwan is NOT a country and it will never be.
YOU ARE NOT CHINESE, SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TALK ABOUT OUR OWN AFFAIRS.

You'd better apologize for that remark of yours before I remind you of some historical facts.

As should be clear to everyone with reason, I am just trying to helping you with what I can and this "affair" does concern me greatly. Can you feel what I as a South Korean feel when you seem to ignore the very presence of Taiwan so aggressively?

Why do you think I can read and write Chinese characters at all? The "Shin": doesn't this look as Chinese as your own family name?

Some of you seem to be extremely motivated by politics even though all of you say you don't want to bring politics into Doom9. Don't forget this is an English forum for every nation and every country. The "Chinese" meant in Doom9 forum means the language rather than nationality and loyalty to which government so I DO have some rights on this matter and even disregarding that, everyone is entitled to opinions here as long as keeping the forum rules and remaining respectful and courteous.

Doom9
8th February 2003, 23:24
well.. the flags poll is here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45414
Cast your vote. And please, this isn't the place to discuss either such controversial politics nor history. I'm sure we're all proud of our respective nations and each and every country has some spots on their vest but that's no reason to get all upset about it. I think the arguments have been made, now it's time for the vote, there's plenty of options so that everybody should find something that he/she can live with.

Kennyshin
8th February 2003, 23:35
THG (Tom's Hardware.com)

http://club.kbench.com/files/1/789337/flag.jpg

Doom9
8th February 2003, 23:45
@Kennyshin: that's the old version which they've dumped now.. but you can suggest that as an alternative in the poll ;)

Scipio
9th February 2003, 00:06
they haven't dumped that version - it's still available in the mirrors:

http://www.gb.tomshardware.com/index.html => This one is Simplified, so the flag/symbol you see in the selection is the one for the Traditional Chinese translation.

I'd suggest takting this solution with those characters just like on THG... though I don't claim to be objective here I doubt that any of the Chinese/Taiwanese/Korean guys in this thread can be objective here... so it's up to you and symbols are as free of political allusions as it gets.


here are the "flags" taken from there:

Scipio
9th February 2003, 00:15
the one above was for Simplified Chinese
----



< edit: I have reduced the size of them to pixel height 15 >


and this is the Traditional Chinese symbol:

Doom9
9th February 2003, 00:22
@scipio: that option has already been added to the poll.. but I think the English and German mirror are more reflective of the recent state of the THG site than others.. just like www.doom9.org is where you get to see the latest news/articles/etc from all the doom9 mirrors.

Scipio
9th February 2003, 00:29
@doom9: yep, I know. guess who voted for the symbol option in your poll ;)

I've added reduced flags to page 5 of this thread. (pixel-height: 15, just like the other flags) but we can wait for the poll to end. this kind of poll is not too useful imho, because it depends largely on which party is more present in this forum... the RPC people will of course vote for their flag, the Taiwanese want more "equal" treatment I think... so the result depends on how many people of these two parties take part in that poll.

andante
9th February 2003, 05:09
@Scipio
the two flags from THG is good, but if resiezed to 25x15 the "big5" and "GB" characters in the flags will hard to see, and those are main characters to distinguish between Simplified and Traditional Chinese....

Kennyshin
9th February 2003, 11:34
Originally posted by Doom9
@Kennyshin: that's the old version which they've dumped now.. but you can suggest that as an alternative in the poll ;)

Yep, I knew that. The Tom's Hardware .com front page has only pull-down menu for other languages like Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, German, etc. But when you go to Simplified Chinese page, there is the gif files linking to other pages with similar pictures.

Unfortunately, the Korean THG was removed from the THG main page while it is still there in the old (not yet updated) pages like Simplified Chinese THG front page. The guys (actually a reseller based in Seoul that advertised their own business for profits) that started THG Korean were not updating their pages for years so it was natural for THG main to remove the link.

I totally agree with Scipio about the poll and the final decision.

Scipio
8th March 2003, 12:34
When are the Chinese translations announced and linked?


http://big5.doom9.org/ seems to be ready to become official (at least to me). The same goes for http://gb.doom9.org/

Both have completed the "checklist" (contact-info page, doc-overview with flags, one project-leader/coordinator etc.) as demanded in the translation guidelines.


the only question seems to be the flag/logo/sign used for those languages - but other than that they deserve to become official....

Doom9
8th March 2003, 13:09
that decision is up to andante and mrly respectively. They already know they qualify (I told them so multiple times) but it's their decision when to go live and I wouldn't want to pressure anyone.

Scipio
8th March 2003, 14:13
perhaps they want to have everything done before they go online? seems strange to me, but who knows what their intention with this delay.