Good Questions to start an FAQ with?

[ErMaC]

I for one I have been very interested in all the HDTV developments of late, and I would love to get involved, but there are so many questions I have that I'm sure lots of other people have, so I thought I'd start this thread with a big list of questions that could be answered by the knowledgable people here and then possibly turned into a sticky thread so others can see it, too.
And I do know the answers to some of these, so I'll add answers in when I know the question, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, here goes:
Basics

What is HDTV/DVB?
HDTV means High Definition Television and DVB is short for Digital Video Broadcast. They both go hand in hand - DVB refers to any digital broadcast while HDTV generally refers to DVB broadcasts in HiDef resolutions.

What resolutions are digitally broadcast?
In the US:

Vertical Aspect
lines Pixels ratio Picture rate
1080 1920 16:9 60I, 30P, 24P
720 1280 16:9 60P, 30P, 24P
480 704 16:9,4:3 60P, 60I, 30P, 24P
480 640 4:3 60P, 60I, 30P, 24P


Where can I read about the technical details of HDTV?

Where can I find out if I can receive HDTV in my area over an antenna?

Where is information about satellite HDTV broadcasts?

Hardware

What kind of hardware do I need to start capturing HDTV?

What hardware is currently recommended for capturing HDTV streams?

Software

How can I read the HDTV transport streams once I have them on my hard drive?

What are useful tools for dealing with HDTV streams?



Those are all the questions I can think of off the top of my head. If you guys can think of any other useful questions please post them. And, of course, if some of this forum's gurus can fill in the answers to all those questions it would be greatly appreciated as I'd really like to know the answers to some of those questions myself! :)

[trbarry]

I'll take a quick shot at some of them.

Where can I read about the technical details of HDTV?

www.atsc.org

Where can I find out if I can receive HDTV in my area over an antenna?

www.antennaweb.org - select choose an antenna and give your zip code for a nifty map

www.titantv.com - The guide has a digital TV section, by zip code.

What kind of hardware do I need to start capturing HDTV?

Some of the HDPC cards are:

MyHD - newer and reportedly pretty good

HiDTV - newer and pretty good, better reception than my Hipix (I have both)

HiPix - older and maybe not supported by Telemann but software dev has been mostly turned into a semi open source effort by a bunch of guys on the AV Science HTPC forum so it is some of the most advanced. May tend to overheat in small boxes.

AccessDTV - Originally got a bad rap for copy protected files, extra cost guide, and questionable support but they have removed the copy protection and may be making an effort again. The only card with full PVR capability. (dual PCI bridge) The first card that had TitanTV scheduling.

WinTV-HD - older and not well supported, very primitive software.

WinTV-d - even older and probably less supported. Displays only at 480i. But it can manually record and they occasionally are sold for as little as $60, often about $130 on eBay. Win98 recording only, IIRC.

All the above cards store in essentially the same format, a raw 19.3 mbps ATSC stream, barring file naming conventions.

I don't know at all about Euro DVB cards.

- Tom

[Atamido]

The website for HiDTV (http://www.pc-dtv.com/) says that it "Supports all 18 ATSC-compliant video formats". Which formats would these be? The formats listed above only total up to 14.

[trbarry]

I think the 704x480 formats count twice because of the 2 different aspect ratios.

- Tom

[Atamido]

Muchos gracias.

What about the *.ts format? Is this part of the HDTV or DVB standard? What is the purpose of the HDTVtoMPEG2 utility? Does it keep the same data but just change the structure? Are all DVB MPEG2 compliant?

[trbarry]

The .ts (or .tp, or .trp) format is just an MPEG2 systems transport stream with a couple codes set to say it is also an ATSC stream.

The HDTVtoMPEG2 utility can do a couple things, depending upon version. It was created by Ben Cooley and modified by GrantR to be able to cut out sections. It can:

1) Rip up a transport stream extracting a single MPEG2 program stream (broken in version 1.10, use 1.09).

2) Cut out commercials and save a transport stream.

I'm pretty sure HDTVtoMPEG2 is mostly a GUI version of BCDMUX, which in turn is a version of BBDMUX modified to handle ATSC streams.

- Tom

[gunsmoke]

Hallo

I have the Haupauge Win Nexus DVB-s card, and running Mulidec 9.1c. My recordings I run thru PVA Strumento too create MPEG2 PS.

Q:
can I use Gknot to make the file into MPEG4?

And how do I do this?


Thanks:confused:

[droolian01]

Hi gunsmoke

just use the 'create program stream' of PVAstrumento. Open this .mpg in dvd2avi (it will not be visible until you select 'all file types' in the 'open' dialogue box) and then follow the usual guides for dvd to divx/xvid conversions. (remember when selecting 'save project' in dvd2avi change the 'all file types' back to 'd2v projects')

Once you get your new program stream .mpg recognised in dvd2avi - its easy.

good luck mate

droolian

[gunsmoke]

Thanks:) That works....

[Stabmaster-Arson]

1) How to capture the mpeg 2 stream without recompressing it? (What hardware is needed, what software is needed, is it protected etc.)

2)I am in Canada, and no HDTV broadcast here, it's gotta be through satelite. How to captuee it from satellite? (not analog capture)? where do I plg a evice to capture it? (In my case expressVU? And is IT protected?

3) Do HDTV's accept VGA inputs? And if so, how is the interlacing handled? (IE is it all blurry like on a regular TV) And if so, how is the res handled? Interpolation, ow ill th video card see it as 1920x1080 capable, and that option is available?

4) DO HDTV's have a non interlaced mode available, for progressive scan dvd players?

5) DVD players output via composite cables, and expects a 525 line NTSC TV. When output to a HDTV, how is this handled? Interpolation in the HDTV internal circuitry???

6) Can HDTV's typically support DVI input?

[jrmann1999]

1) How to capture the mpeg 2 stream without recompressing it? (What hardware is needed, what software is needed, is it protected etc.)

You need an HDTV card. The software generally comes with it due to proprietary drivers. Some cards encrypt, some dont. The native streams are NOT encrypted(yet). Recompression at the time of record would be impossible on hardware today, but recording the pure stream doesn't take much at all, except a large HD(9GB for 1H).

2)I am in Canada, and no HDTV broadcast here, it's gotta be through satelite. How to captuee it from satellite? (not analog capture)? where do I plg a evice to capture it? (In my case expressVU? And is IT protected?
The ONLY satellite output of the stream I've ever seen is a module for the Dish Network model 5000 receiver. The problem arises from having to decode the dish signal and then output the raw stream along coax, dish companies realize the average joe is going to just want YPbPr straight to the TV instead of having *another* piece of hardware to decode the stream.

3) Do HDTV's accept VGA inputs? And if so, how is the interlacing handled? (IE is it all blurry like on a regular TV) And if so, how is the res handled? Interpolation, ow ill th video card see it as 1920x1080 capable, and that option is available?
Some cards accept HDTV, most modern TV's have an RGB port which you can minpulate to take a PC signal(with VERY limited specs). Depending on the TV, you can input any HDTV resolution that the TV takes and it'll be as clear as that(1920x1088i looks great from avi file playback of an HTPC). But yes text is still blurry in interlaced mode to the point it's unreadable. The beauty is you don't need an interlaced mode most of the time(if the TV takes 1080i, it'll most likely take 540p).

4) DO HDTV's have a non interlaced mode available, for progressive scan dvd players?
Yes and No. The DVD Player will 99% of the time output into progressive depending on 3:2 pulldown capability. If it doesn't then the TV will accept either signal if it's worth a crap.

6) Can HDTV's typically support DVI input?
Only really new and really expensive(6000$ US +) models are supporting this currently.

[trbarry]

4) DO HDTV's have a non interlaced mode available, for progressive scan dvd players?

I think most HDTV's can accept at least 1080i, 480i, and 480p through component inputs. Some even accept 720p.

And (US) DVD players will output either 480i or 480p depending upon whether they are progressive.


5) DVD players output via composite cables, and expects a 525 line NTSC TV. When output to a HDTV, how is this handled? Interpolation in the HDTV internal circuitry???

DVD players often have component cables. And 525 line NTSC is just 480i (viewable). So yes, most US TV's (HD or SD) can handle this through either component, composite, or s-video input. But they may or may not upscale it to any other resolution. My Toshiba TN55x81 for instance will line double 480i to 480p. And it doesn't really do a bad job at it. But not as good as a progressive DVD player or using DScaler.

- Tom

[Stabmaster-Arson]

So I've got this here panasonic Progressive scan dvd player. I just set the unit to 16:9, enable progressive, and stick it in the hdtv, and it will be fine?

Will the hdtv actually play progessive, or does it need to TC back to 29.9706 during playback?

And if I output the pc to an HDTV in a progressive mode, am I currect that it will be clear and readable? (trying to get at if I can actually use an HDTV as a monitor, if if it must be reserved only for watching movies off PC)

[trbarry]

It should be fine, displaying at 60 progressive frames / sec in 480p. Note the progressive players don't actually reduce the frame rate to 24p (I don't think) so there is still the 60 Hz judder you would expect showing 24 fps movies at 60 Hz. But the players can do a good job of IVTC or deinterlace on most material.

And I use my HDTV for almost all of my web browsing, but not programming. I have a 55" 4:3 set that I run constantly in 960x544 mode from my PC through an AA 9A60 RGB->YPbPr adapter. Note 960x544 (most anything x 540) is indistinguishable from 1080i to most HDTV sets. But without some service mode adjustments many HDTV sets have too much overscan to see the whole screen so it sometimes takes some tinkering.

- Tom

[trbarry]

I'll add a Faq question here that maybe someone else can answer (BaronVlad?).

What are the differences in between Euro DVB and US ATSC HDTV digital formats? How are they processed differently?

For instance I tried PVAStrumento on a couple of ATSC files a few months back with little success. But there are reports that the HDTV versions of DVD2AVI handle at least some DVB files. So there can't be that much difference.

- Tom

[cofferscuffs]

DVB in the UK
-------------

3 types of DVB:

DVB-s (satellite)
DVB-t (terrestial)
DVB-c (cable)


Although DVB-c is not so common, I have seen DVB-c cards in sale in the UK (possibly imported?)

DVD-t card can only recieve Free-To-Air broadcasts, same as with DVB-s due to VideoGuard II being propiatry to Sky boxes only (in Europe this is different as you can get the CAMS). DD 5.1 is availble on some Sky chans... but don't expect to recieve em...

General TS info:

Resolution full D1 or cropped D1
AR 16:9
Frame rate is 25fps
Average video bitrate 2.5-4mbit/s (although it is on the increase)
256/192 kbps 48kHz MP2 audio


Common DVB-t card in the UK is the Nova-T, which is also a bitch to setup and use (due to the extensive crappyness of the software); so here are some helpfull links: http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/44863/ds.html (how to set it up stably), http://www.global-digital.co.uk/dvrec (recording & reg writing fix & digiguide tie-in), http://www.btopenwoe.co.uk/malcolmgang/digitv/novat.htm (now/next fix)

Massive linux support for DVB cards tho, just take a look at http://www.linuxtv.org/ http://www.linuxdvb.tv/ etc... just use google.

[cweb]

Just a minor note because the above posting was uk-centric :)

Mine is euro-centric...
You can hook up other actual CAM's (e.g. Viaccess) to your dvb-s card (in a drive bay typically) and use the authentic smartcard to view a payperview channel e.g. BBC PRIME.

[killingspree]

perhaps this page might be of any interest to DVB users... unfortunately i'm not yet one of them allthough i'm currently planning on getting a DVB-s card
www.dvb.org
and especially
http://www.dvb.org/index.php?id=9

and a short explanation: http://www.beyondsl.net/dvb_explained.html

steVe

[smok3]

1. where are 50i and 25p specs? or is that supposed to be us only format? (any links to exact specs? tia)

[ivan_alias]

I just got my DVB card from Nebula
http://www.nebula-electronics.com

Tip top card!

[Enrico Ng]

What resolutions are digitally broadcast?
In the US:

Vertical Aspect
lines Pixels ratio Picture rate
1080 1920 16:9 60I, 30P, 24P
720 1280 16:9 60P, 30P, 24P
480 704 16:9,4:3 60P, 60I, 30P, 24P
480 640 4:3 60P, 60I, 30P, 24P


[/B]

I notice here (in the US), FOX proadcasts 720x480p 16:9
Shows that are not 16:9 leave the sides black so I guess the horizontal resolution is less.
I've been having trouble resizing. I figured 4:3 would be 560x480, but when I stretch it back out it looks wrong. plus, the image does not seem centered. If I cut 90 pixels on each side, I cut part of the right. I have to cut like 80 pixels on the right.

[LoKi128]

AFAIK, most of the current HDTV cards are designed for Over The Air (OTA) broadcasts. OTA uses a form of modulation, but Cable HDTV uses another (QAM). I imagine that OTA HDTV will be equivalent to current standard OTA, meaning some channels, but not most. Example, SciFi, Food Network, FX, etc. And I imagine that Cable HDTV will be encrypted, on top of it being another modulation.

So my question is: Will any of the current HDTV capture cards work with cable HDTV systems? Will they be encrypted?

[jrmann1999]

AFAIK if it uses QAM modulation there does not exist a card that works with it. If it uses 8PSK (I think that's the standard, it's the same modulation OTA uses) any HDTV card will decode it that can do OTA(unless the feed is encrypted, an entirely different beast).

Just a rant, how can the backwards countries get standards broadcast/cable/satellite TV(DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S) and yet we in America are considered pirates if all we want to do is use a PC to watch high quality television. The day I can pop in 2 cards(DVB-S + OTA HDTV(DVB-T), or DVB-C + OTA HDTV(DVB-T)) and not be forced to use 3 different boxes to achieve the same thing is the day I'll be happy.

[Master Yoda]

Im not encoding dvb or hdtv(not in the usa).Just seen as this is a faq on the subjects thought i would ask here.I curious to know....

Now im guessing that the i and p after a resolution means progressive or interlaced, so 1920x1080i means that the image is 1920 pixels, 1080 lines and is interlaced.Is this correct??

OK second question, i have sky digital, which is dvb right.... so does anyone know what resolutions are used on sky digital ??

[Stan64]

What kind of hardware have component in?

[killingspree]

Originally posted by Stan64
What kind of hardware have component in?

what do you mean exactly?

[Doom9]

hmm.. I didn't even see that until now. Makes me think we really need a moderator to put all this together in a presentable form. I've also been thinking of adding info on the DVB standards, it's fileformats and hardware/software... I suppose that would be helpful as well. I found that when I got my DVB card, and even prior to it, it wasn't so easy to find all the info I was looking for.

[Stan64]

I meant a capture card that have inputs for "Y Pr Pb". Like if I want to capture from my GameCube while playing PSO Episode 3 in Progressive Scan (480p60). Or on Xbox while playing SoulCalibur 2 in Progressive Scan (720p60).