DTS in an AVI file [Archive]

alexnoe

22nd December 2002, 13:21

I got hand on a DTS frame header description which seems to be accurate enough to add DTS support to AVI-Mux GUI.

Problem: The AC3fromAVI-filter will send it as AC3 to the decoder (it seems to interprete a wFormatTag of 0x2000 as AC3), which therefore does not replay anything (already tried it).

Since I have absolutely no knowledge on DirectShow programming: Could someone modify the AC3fromAVIfilter either to handle both DTS and AC3 (and add a new wformattag, such as 0x2001), or create a DTSfromAVI filter (also using a new wformattag)?

Wilbert

25th December 2002, 16:13

Sorry for the useless post of mine, but I really hope that someone will help you because it will be really great if we can make/play avi with dts sound.

gabest

26th December 2002, 13:38

Of course it would be possible, but do you know a filter which would transform DTS into wave samples for the avi muxer with this new id on the media type? Not that it was hard to make such too.

Ah, and one more thing, the current ac3 decoder filters accept wave with id=0x2000 natively, but they don't know about our new id for DTS.

alexnoe

27th December 2002, 09:58

but do you know a filter which would transform DTS into wave samples for the avi muxer :confused: :scared:

The problem is about the player, not the muxer. AVI-Mux GUI does not use any of this broken DS filter stuff.

What I want someone to make:
=> a DTSfromAVI filter, which works the same way as AC3fromAVI, just with another wFormatTag
=> a new filter which passes DTS audio over to intervideo decode, but which tells the decoder that it is DTS. Currently, it is passed over as AC3

gabest

27th December 2002, 14:30

a new filter which passes DTS audio over to intervideo decode, but which tells the decoder that it is DTSI see, it should work as you say. Last question, what's the media type of DTS? The one to set at the output pin of the DTSFromAVI filter.

alexnoe

28th December 2002, 09:36

Last question, what's the media type of DTS? The one to set at the output pin of the DTSFromAVI filter.I don't know, but why not use graphedit to find it out?

Maybe you can parse a vob file containing DTS audio with graphedit and then just look up the media type.

E-Male

30th December 2002, 11:52

any progress-reports alexnoe?

Suiryc

30th December 2002, 20:44

Last time I had a look into mmreg.h (where common tags are defined).
What is the WAVE_FORMAT_DTS (0x0008) value (wFormatTag) for ?
Even with this name I am not sure this is related to Digital Theater Systems because the comment next to it is 'Microsoft Corporation' ...

Mango Madness

31st December 2002, 00:16

I would much rather see decoding of DTS so that we can have a cleaner source for mp3, ogg, or AAC compression. oh how i'd love to have a 6.1 channel 24bit wave file to have and to hold.

alexnoe

31st December 2002, 23:01

I've changed wFormatTag to 0x0008 in my test file, without success => whatever it is, it's not the DTS audio we speak about.

alexnoe

1st January 2003, 10:52

I've tried to render files containing DTS audio with graphedit, but without success.

Although a DTS file plays fine in PowerDVD, and a single VOB file containing DTS audio and MPEG2 video plays fine as well, graphedit refuses to render the DTS file and only renders the video output filter graph for the vob file :(

Seems that no generic DTS decode filters are installed.

Kadmium

1st January 2003, 15:33

I think perhaps the reason graphedit won't render a VOB with DTS audio is that all the VOB splitters I'm aware of just ignore DTS audio, so there is no DTS pin. If anyone knows of any DirectShow splitters that handle DTS properly could they let me know please?

gabest

2nd January 2003, 03:22

Because what Kadmium said, that no mpeg2 splitter recognizes and creates pins for private stream with 0x88+ id, I tried to make a standalone source filter for dvd2avi demuxed dts files, which could be used to simulate the DTS-out-of-AVI filter.

The first problem I ran into was that I didn't know the exact media type to set on my filter's pin. Ok, this is no news, let's look what audio decoders register themselves to be called in the graph for. The result was not promising. While they all registered MEDIATYPE_Audio/MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3 none of them did MEDIATYPE_Audio/MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS, however iviaudio and nvidia did it for MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK/MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS, so there was a slight chance if the checkings aren't stickt enough then I might be able to feed them with fake info in the PES and private stream headers (the dts data needs to be packetized back since dvd2avi has just stripped the headers and MEDIATYPE_DVD_ENCRYPTED_PACK means PES packets with the encryption bit set or not set to 1).

Btw, early ac3 decoder versions also only accepted PES and so mpgaudio.ax is also doing what I've just outlined (adds a header with the timestamp always set to zero and it still works :)). However, it is not needed nowdays since all ac3 decoder can accept the raw ac3 stream just fine (MEDIATYPE_Audio/MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3).

So, at this point I was constructing the code to read and repack dts as how it could be outputted from the dvd navigator filter or from other dvd players' demuxer. Then just hit another prob, I did't know the format GUID and structure for MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS, in dshow headers there are a few dvd related defined like FORMAT_DolbyAC3/FORMAT_MPEG2Audio/FORMAT_DVD_LPCMAudio, but DTS is missing, also the matching format describing structures cannot be found anywhere (it's something like the WAVEFORMATEX structure, but of course that is only for FORMAT_WaveFormatEx). I could spy these fields if I had a dvd with dts audio, but unfortunately I don't have any, and also have no idea how to author one... But if someone knows how to do it, please make one and upload it somewhere so I can download :)

Anyway. Without knowing the format I just put FORMAT_None there and left the structure empty. After a little experiencing I managed to connect my filter to the iviaudio decoder in graphedit, but when I hit play the slider just run to the end quickly and everything stopped.

This is how far I got now, thanks for reading :P

alexnoe

2nd January 2003, 15:20

I have made the following assumptions for AVI-Mux GUI for the next release (which will read DTS files!)

The strf-structure is, as for AC3 audio, WAVEFORMATEX, with cbSize being 0. Any granularity values are, as for AC3, set to 1.

Channels and frequencies in any AVI or stream headers are what you get from the main DTS frame header, i.e. a maximum of 48 kHz (if audio is 96 kHz, it is not funny at all to find that out without risking to missync subframes!).

wFormatTag will be 0x2001. 2 DTS frames will be packed into one chunk, as required for proper AC3 playback on broken SB drivers.

If you require a description of DTS frame headers (e.g. to set up some data to feed filters with), PM me. If you need a DTS audio DVD, PM me as well.

E-Male

2nd January 2003, 18:24

erm, does that mean avis with dts audio will soon be possibly???
sorry, but i didn´t understand much of it ;)

gabest

2nd January 2003, 19:12

Muxing dts into avi is not the prob, the playback is. Currently there is no way to connect the avi splitter to the decoders. Wrapping dts chunks into waveformat is only needed to the avi container.

gabest

2nd January 2003, 20:51

Good news, my dts source filter is working now. I can play demuxed dts files from dvd2avi in any dshow player :P

There are only a few little details I'm not sure about

1. dvd2avi cuts the first three bytes of the dts data (0x01 0x00 0x01), and I don't know if AVI-mux will store these bytes or also skip them.

2. How much is the time length of one packet? The iviaudio decoder doesn't seem to care about the timestamp I set on the samples and sets it own calculated from the stream data, but for responding to seeking command in the source filter I need to know this info.

edit:

The packet length looks to be 320000/3 ns, but I'm not sure if it's true for every file.

http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/dtssource.ax

Register with regsvr32.exe and then try a demuxed *.dts in some player. Only works with the iviaudio decoder, I couldn't connect it to nvidia yet, and cyberlink can't decode dts.

E-Male

2nd January 2003, 23:21

very nice already
just 2 questions:
does this do digital output or analog stereo (downmix)?
and what player(s) do you recommend?

thx
e-male

gabest

2nd January 2003, 23:29

It just reads and seeks, decoding is done using iviaudio.ax. You have to set that to spdif to make it output digitally.

Kadmium

3rd January 2003, 03:28

Actually, as of PowerDVD 4, the Cyberlink decoder does handle DTS.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 04:01

The player may handle it somehow internally, but the filter doesn't want to accept and connect to any DTS type.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 07:41

Just muxed a dts audio track into an avi, and it plays fine :P

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 10:26

My brother has the LOTR extended DVD, and it uses 768 kBit with 1005 bytes packages, meaning that something like 10ms are one packet.

The data you've given (01 00 01) is not a valid sync header. At the moment, AVI-Mux GUI only accepts DTS streams with a valid sync header at the very beginning.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 10:51

I could only find two small samples with dts sound and both were having a 106667ns length for every 2013 bytes, but of course this value should be only true for this bitrate. Is there a way to find out the bitrate of a dts file? I know where this info is stored in an ac3 file and I guess there must be something similar for dts.

About the 01 00 01. As I found these three bytes exist in a vob before the ac3 data too. Not always these numbers, it is varying. In the demuxed file they are not getting outputted, but for iviaudio I have to repack it like it was, or the closest possible :)

Where can I find "AVI-Mux GUI"? Meanwhile I made my own dshow filter to read dts and feed the avi muxer with "tag=0x2001" wave-format data, but I'd like to test the output of AVI-Mux GUI, too.

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 11:00

The current version is not yet ready for public upload, so there might still be problems i'm not yet aware of (i have changed a few things which could turn out buggy)

I've uploaded it to the FTP you sent me via PM, as well as DTS frame header description. There you find your information about how to determine bitrate.

I've downloaded your dtssource filter, and I can connect a graph in graphedit, but i don't hear anything...is your replay filter already developed far enough to just open an AVI file with BS-Player and play it?

gabest

3rd January 2003, 11:07

Thanks, got the files, and already testing it :)

The first dts I tried crashed the prog (you get it from the root dir of my ftp), but the other produced something (I have yet to try it).

The only dts decoder I could connect that source filter was iviaudio. And it was even from 4.5, but I think 4.0 would have also worked. When I upgraded it a few days ago I didn't see too much developement, nothing noticable was changed in it.

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 11:12

IE can't download the file :( and I don't have a better FTP prog here at the moment...maybe the one file is again misdetected as another format...I will set MP3 as least priority for autodetecting format.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 11:23

test1.dts, it can be found in the root dir, not in the /upload dir.

The latest builds of the filters I was talking about so far:

http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/dtssource.ax
- same as the previous, but it can output more formats: raw, private1, PES, waveformat. (waveformat can be used to connect it to the avi muxer)

http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/avi2ac3dts.ax
- it is a universal converter between waveformat and raw/private1/PES formats (back and forth), needed to connect the avi splitter outputting tag=0x2000/0x2001 and the ac3/dts decoders.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 11:55

Just tested the avi mux util, the output nicely played for the first try with my filter (avi2ac3dts.ax). Though there were twice as much data per sample (2*2013 bytes) as one PES packet can hold, but the time length was not doubled as well. I checked what the iviaudio decoder sets on the output samples for every 2013 bytes input, and it was always 106667ns for this dts file, while the samples coming from the avi splitter were 213229 ns long, which is not exactly 2*106667. But I have no idea if this counts, my dts files were too short to notice any desyncronization.

ChristianHJW

3rd January 2003, 12:12

What do you think guys, how much work was necessary to allow opening DTS files in VdubMod for muxing ?

I really dont want to question your work on AVImux Alex, its more like i am keen on having DTS muxing capability for OGM and matroska from VdubMod ( matroska test muxer is a modded version of VdubMod, statically linked to a one year old version of libmcf, for testing only ... extension is .mcf still :D ).

For the playback i cant see any major probs, Tobias' OGM playback filter should be able to do it without mods if AVI parser can do it, and for matroska parser we can do any modifications that were necessary ( actually, we have other problems than that right now, like connecting to AC3 decoder filters correctly :D, but it could be done in reasonable time for sure ).

Sorry for the interruption if you're busy with other stuff than making DTS available in other containers than AVI right now ... but you guys could also consider whether its making sense at all to make DTS in AVI available. The Vdub support forum i am admin on gets almost hammered by many people having probs with VBR MP3 and AC3 audio in AVI, as most AVI editing tools, including Vdub, couldnt handle that at all. It is maybe worth considering to reserve DTS audio to the new containers, being mainly controlled from this place here, used by well informed people. Just a suggestion guys, please dont jump on me if you dont like the idea ...

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 12:24

For AC3, it is absolutely necessary to put 2 AC3 frames into one chunk in the AVI file. Not due to some specifications, but because otherwise some broken SB drivers malfunction in case you use SPDIF out (there has been a thread about that in the A/V format forum iirc). This is of course a flaw in one of the filters...

To be sure these idiotic drivers don't puke at users again, I've packed 2 DTS frames into each chunk.
Per definition, the size of an AVI chunk is any multiple of the nGranularity value. This is 1 for AC3, so requiring any special pack size there is, technically, a bug. However, we have to create files which work...meeting the specs doesn't suffice :sly:

Anyway, with only 10ms per chunk (i.e. 1 DTS frame), the avi overhead would be 8,5 MB per hour and DTS stream...which is even more than what MP3 VBR causes.

Problem: I can't replay anything. I've registered the filters with regsvr32. When trying to render such an AVI file with graphedit, it doesn't render audio. Rendering a DTS file only succeeds if an Intervideo audio decode filter is alreasy loaded in the form. Playing still doesn't work. Only silence.

When loading an AVI, I can manually connect AVI<->AC3/DTS, Intervideo audio and standard DirectSound, but the propery-page of intervideo continues to claim that the input is AC3 and only plays silence.

I can't even replay your test file. Maybe my iviaudio filter is obsolete. Where could I get current iviaudio.ax?

The file you sent is absolutely OK, it was indeed misdetected as MP3 (to verify MP3, a valid sync header is looked for, and if then 2 consecutive frames of MP3 audio can be read, the file is assumed MP3. I'll increase the number a bit, and MP3 is now lowest priority, i.e. only if AVI, WAV, AC3 and DTS verification fail, MP3 is tried).

Your test file indicates 1536 kBit/s, which means that the real bitrate is 1509.75 kBit/s (per definition). No idea if that works well, or if it is going to cause problems. 1536 is one of two strange bitrates...

Are you sure that your digits are right? 106667 sounds too much for me...do you mean 10667? AC3 has iirc 1536 bytes per 32ms for 384 kBit. 2013 bytes for 106.667ms at 1509 kBit/s can't be...and 2013/(1509.75/8) is 10.6666...

@Christian: People have problems with MP3 and AC3 in AVIs because they use broken software for muxing.

gabest

3rd January 2003, 12:41

Originally posted by alexnoe
For AC3, it is absolutely necessary to put 2 AC3 frames into one chunk in the AVI file. Not due to some specifications, but because otherwise some broken SB drivers malfunction in case you use SPDIF out (there has been a thread about that in the A/V format forum iirc). This is of course a flaw in one of the filters...It just the matter of how the AVI->AC3 filter packaging the samples, it would be possible to accumlate a few samples and send them out together...Problem: I can't replay anything. ...No idea, try the version I have here: http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/iviaudio.axWhen loading an AVI, I can manually connect AVI<->AC3/DTS, Intervideo audio and standard DirectSound, but the propery-page of intervideo continues to claim that the input is AC3 and only plays silence.Register this dll (http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/proppage.dll) and see what media type the iviaudio is using on the input.

Are you sure that your digits are right? 106667 sounds too much for me...do you mean 10667? AC3 has iirc 1536 bytes per 32ms for 384 kBit. 2013 bytes for 106.667ms at 1509 kBit/s can't be...and 2013/(1509.75/8) is 10.6666...Ah, all the time I meant N*100ns, dshow counts time in this unit and I got used to it too much that I forgot about it :)@Christian: People have problems with MP3 and AC3 in AVIs because they use broken software for muxing. LOL, nice comment :P I think this is half true, even if something is not muxed correctly with/for VfW editing tools, it can be decoded ok with dshow because it is more flexible.

ChristianHJW

3rd January 2003, 13:17

Originally posted by gabest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alexnoe wrote:@Christian: People have problems with MP3 and AC3 in AVIs because they use broken software for muxing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL, nice comment :P I think this is half true, even if something is not muxed correctly with/for VfW editing tools, it can be decoded ok with dshow because it is more flexible.

.. its ok that you guys make fun of me in this respect :) ... i can handle that. Of course, you are used to posting on a l337 place with hard rules, and very few Newbies.

Me on the other hand gets in touch with frustrated Virtualdub users every day that have big problems understanding why they cant open and process AVIs with VBR MP3 and/or AC3 audio in them. It makes me shiver to estimate what will happen if DTS is added to this list of audio codecs that are generally unsupported in good old AVI.

I simply recommended to restrict the use of DTS to the OGM container for the time being, which is all in your power right now. Anyway, maybe not your problem but mine and of those mods on the Newbie places, so i should stop bothering you with this now ;) ....

gabest

3rd January 2003, 13:37

Tested it with ogm, seeking is slow as usual but works for me :)

ChristianHJW: Ask yourself: "Am I reading too many forums and too much time?" :D

Ah, and one more thing, anything is supported by avi which is packed into waveformat. The tag id for AC3 has been in the headers longer time than I can remember.

edit: Found it :) dx6mediasdk\mpgparse\include\mpeg2typ.h, line 80: #define WAVE_FORMAT_DOLBY_AC3 0x2000, file date: 17/08/1998

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 14:05

@garbest:
Good news: With your new iviaudio.ax file, the graph renders automatically.

Bad news: The new iviaudio.ax doesn't replay anything, neither DTS nor AC3 in an AVI file nor standalone AC3 files. If I substitute my original iviaudio.ax which was provided with my WinDVD with your new file, WinDVD still works, but nothing else works...

gabest

3rd January 2003, 14:20

What do you mean "nothing else"? Regular ac3 avi files? Or even vobs in other players? Maybe the filter checks if you have a registered player installed...

Other. I had a little prob extracting the frame header bits... They just doesn't seem to give a sensible result.

4 byte sync, OK
6 bits additional sync: 0x3f, OK
1 bit "Frame Type": 0, OK
5 bits "Deficit Sample Count": 3, looks OK, whatever it is for :)
1 bit CRC: 1, must be OK, 50% chance
7 bits "Number of PCM Sample Blocks": 0x47, no idea if it is OK
14 bits "Primary Frame Byte Size": 14089 bytes, what does this number mean?
6 bits "Audio Channel Arrangement": 0x37, there is no such valid entry in the table, it must be wrong already
4 bits "Core Audio Sampling Frequency": 0, again an invalid value... I'm lost...

Basically I'm only interested in finding out the bitrate, but that is still to come. Could you just tell me how many bytes to count from the first 4 sync bytes and which bits to look for?

edit: What about the source filter, can you connect it to avi muxer and make a valid-looking avi with it?

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 15:03

What do you mean "nothing else"? Regular ac3 avi files?For example. Haven't tried vobs in other players yet.
I'll try to get a full version of latest WinDVD...

DTS: ROTFL! You got into the same trap as I did!

Sync are 4 bytes. Nothing more. The next 6 bits can be considered sync, since they do not change for standard frames, but technically, they are not sync!

=> 32 bit sync, 1 bit frame type, 5 bits deficit sample count etc...

I haven't tried to write an AVI file with AVI-Muxer...I don't see what this should be good for. AVIs with DTS will probably be over 2 GB and require OpenDML...and the AVI Muxer doesn't create OpenDML compliant files anyway...

gabest

3rd January 2003, 15:13

Ah, thanks, stupid sync bytes :P

I haven't tried to write an AVI file with AVI-Muxer...I don't see what this should be good for. AVIs with DTS will probably be over 2 GB and require OpenDML...and the AVI Muxer doesn't create OpenDML compliant files anyway...Don't know what it creates, but I can capture tens of working gigabytes using it. The real pain is cutting on keyframes though.

alexnoe

3rd January 2003, 15:21

Yeah, but OpenDML specs require that the first RIFF list is compatible to AVI 1.0, meaning that the dwTotalFrames value should contain the number of frames in the first RIFF list only (=> 1 GB when using DS AVI muxer).
The overall total number is to be stored somewhere else.

DS AVI muxer write the overall total number to dwTotalFrames :angry: , which is, technically, wrong.

Kadmium

3rd January 2003, 15:29

I'd just like to thank everyone who made this possible :). It's been really important to me and now that it's here, it's very much a relief and a wonderful thing :). Thank you all :).

gabest

4th January 2003, 03:52

Originally posted by alexnoe
Are you sure that your digits are right? 106667 sounds too much for me...do you mean 10667? AC3 has iirc 1536 bytes per 32ms for 384 kBit. 2013 bytes for 106.667ms at 1509 kBit/s can't be...and 2013/(1509.75/8) is 10.6666...I was happily knowing this for a whole day, but know I'm confused again :) 1509.75 [kb/s] / 8 = 188.71875 [kB/s] = 193248 [B/s], now if I divide again to get the time length I get something else: 2013 / 193248 = 10.41666... ms :confused: Of course I know where the trick is, k could mean 1000 too, but then 188.71875 [kB/s] = 188718.75 [B/s] which is not a whole number and look less sensible to me.

gabest

4th January 2003, 05:32

Found some probs with the AVI<->AC3/DTS filter...

1. When the audio is not interleaved so that the waveformat packet starts match with dts packets then the PES packets won't start at the dts sync word and the iviaudio decoder seems to be able to decode it. With non-interleaved avis there is no problem :P

2. If the interleave time is too high then one waveformat packet can't be wrapped into PES fully. The largest possible size for such data is 65521 bytes. That is about 347ms for my 1536kbps samples. Btw, this prob isn't really new, it already existed with mpgaudio.ax and ac3, but when the ac3 decoder accepts raw data (not packed into PES), then it is not causing skips because the 64k limitation comes from the PES header.

Kadmium

4th January 2003, 07:36

I just noticed a problem: when I try to mux a DTS in an AVI, it works fine for full rate streams (1536 kbit) but with half rate streams (768 kbit) the video plays at half-speed. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the audio plays at double-speed...

The length of the video stays normal (2 hours, 45 minutes or so) and jutters along, with audio staying normal. The timer reading runs at half speed.

This is probably a minor bug in the AVI <> AC3/DTS filter, perhaps it is only expecting a full rate stream?

gabest

4th January 2003, 07:51

I haven't got the dts specs from alexnoe at that time yet. Yes, it is expecting only one bitrate, 1536kbps.

Meanwhile I modified this filter to repackage the data passing through and the interleaving problems looks to be solved (should help to ac3 probs too, theoretically :P). It can plays without skips even with a big 1 sec inteleaving time. But I'd need to do more testings to be sure about this.

Kadmium: Any chance you can upload me a few megabytes of this 768kbps file? I'm going to pm you my ftp address.

edit: New builds of both filters:
http://download.vobsub.edensrising.com/test.rar

alexnoe

4th January 2003, 11:28

@gabest: MP3, AC3 and DTS bitrates are always given in units of 1000 bit/s, not 1024...and you've picked one of 2 crappy bitrates! Besides 1536, which is in reality 1509.75, only one more has a fracted value :angry:

Kadmium

4th January 2003, 11:50

Sure, but considering I'm connected at 14.4 atm (due to shoddy phone lines that Australia's telco continues to deny responsibility for) it'll take an age before anything usable turns up. To be honest, it'd probably be quicker for you to swim here and borrow the original DVD.

Here it comes, anyway.

gabest

4th January 2003, 21:06

Originally posted by alexnoe
@gabest: MP3, AC3 and DTS bitrates are always given in units of 1000 bit/s, not 1024...Ah, that's not nice, and then why one byte is not meaning 10 bits in the audio department? :devil:

Kadmium: Never mind.

Btw, someone has uploaded a few mbs of gladiator while I was sleeping. Thanks for that.

gabest

4th January 2003, 22:44

768kbps gladiator sample muxed and played ok with the latest filters :D

alexnoe

4th January 2003, 23:07

Your filters need to be linked to on the software page...

gabest

4th January 2003, 23:15

You mean here at doom9.org's download section? I'll send them later to doom9, I think it needs a little more testings.

But maybe a thread in the audio forum would draw the attention of more testers, or just simply this thread could be moved to there.

Any moderator reading this? :)

specise_8472

5th January 2003, 11:07

I don't know if this is what you want but -

Playing around in Vobrator if you change the stream ID of the DTS track to 88 it works. What I mean is that PowerDVD refuses to acknowledge an audio track if the ID is the default 89 but 88 plays perfectly in PowerDVD.

BTW if you use the DTS to PCM function you can use graphedit to then make the PCM file to Wave. Works like a charm.

Now only if we can get the sourcecode to vobrator as they know how to decode DTS files!

Cheers

alexnoe

5th January 2003, 15:19

This thread is bad for audio forum: The majority of posts is concerning how to realize DTS audio in AVI files.

alexnoe

5th January 2003, 23:19

OK, I can now replay an AVI containing DTS audio! The corresponding AVI-Mux GUI release is available now and should soon be in the download section.
Gabest: Please have your beta-filters being added as well :D

E-Male

7th January 2003, 00:50

well i tryed it, the dts plays, win windvd even through digital out, but the speed of audi and video are different
can you post the settings i should use with avimuxgui, please?

but alread: hat off to you guys

alexnoe

7th January 2003, 01:03

The settings should not matter. Standard should work fine. What bitrate does AVI-Mux GUI show for your DTS stream? Only 768 and 1509.75 have been tested so far.

E-Male

7th January 2003, 01:45

its 768
maybe it´s because i ripped just one chapter of the dvd and it´s not the first one, i know from experience that streams without there original beginnen don´t work well in some cases
i´ll keep testing and inform you of any news

alexnoe

7th January 2003, 09:58

Nah...that should not matter.

Do you have WinDVD 4.5? How different are the speeds? Something like 1:3 or only slightly different?

E-Male

7th January 2003, 17:30

WinDVD platinum 4.5 DXVA B11.000 (but I´m not sure which older versions of intervideo filter are somewhere in my system)
the video has a lenth of ~11:32, the audio plays faster and finishes already at ~11:20
it makes no diference if i play it in windvd (with spidif) or in mediaplayer (without)
neither audio or video have a subjectivly noticable wrong speed, but the drifting apart of the two is very very clear
CU
E-Male

gabest

7th January 2003, 17:34

Does it make any difference if you muliplex with the dtssource filter in graphedit?

How much is the time length of the demuxed dts file if you open it in a media player and if you open it in windvd?

E-Male

7th January 2003, 18:10

the pure dts is 11:32 in mediaplayer
it doesn´t work in windvd, just noise and the time display jumping through random numbers

i´ll try graphedit later

cu
e-male

pmm

7th January 2003, 19:36

I've read your discussion with interest, although I've been more concerned with muxing dts with mpeg2. I've been using IfoEdit but have problems with dts files I've created using surcode (see posting on Ifo Edit Forum).

Is their a way to compare these 2 dts files (one known to work from ripped disc and other created by surcode which fails to mux) to identify the differences in file header and/or structure to get around the muxing problem.

And thanks for all your hard work with this thread.

Paul

E-Male

8th January 2003, 19:31

when muxing with graphedit (graph like in the thread in the audio section of the forum) the audio stays in sync

just one problem: the playback sometimes gets much faster for about half a second, or better sayed, short (less than a second) parts are skipped
when i watch the part again it works, so i gues it´s not a problem of the file

CU
E-Male

alexnoe

8th January 2003, 19:35

The problem with the audio off sync arised because I didn't read my own specs file properly :angry:

try it again with AVI-Mux GUI (eng). I've updated the "normal" download.

E-Male

8th January 2003, 22:00

works now
i gues all problems are solved

i tried cutting an avi with dts audio in virtualdubmod, using directstreamcopy on video and audio: works fine

CU
E-Male

MaTTeR

9th January 2003, 15:27

I'm a little late here but just wanted to mention a short note. I received an email from Valex (AC3filter author) about a week ago and he stated that he would try and implement passing DTS over SPDIF with his filter. I'm not sure how far along he is with this yet. This is great news for those of us who despise using the Intervideo filters;)

Many thx for all the efforts on this DTS project. I'm already drooling:D

@Christian,
alexnoe is correct, since using his AVImux tool and Valex's AC3filter I've seen no more playback problems with AC3. No longer do I have to sit and play with silly interleave values with NanDub. No longer do I see my CD/DVD drives spinning excessively either! I'm not sure why people are reluctant to try it but instead continue using these "broken tools":rolleyes:

@Gabest,
You stated seeking in the OGM file was slow as usual. Did you mean this in general or was it in regards to the DTS track being muxed into the OGM? Generally speaking, I've found that seeking in OGM is _much_ faster than AVI.

alexnoe

9th January 2003, 16:29

Seeking speed in AVIs mainly depends on keyframe interval.

ChristianHJW

9th January 2003, 17:05

Originally posted by MaTTeR
@Christian, alexnoe is correct, since using his AVImux tool and Valex's AC3filter I've seen no more playback problems with AC3. No longer do I have to sit and play with silly interleave values with NanDub. No longer do I see my CD/DVD drives spinning excessively either!

I'm a bit slow here mate, so let me get this straight : You are muxing AC3 and XviD AVI in AVImuxGui, then convert the final AVI into OGM with koepi's OggMux and this is better than using VdubMod for muxing AC3 and XviD ?

Ok, i downloaded the program ( latest version including DTS support ) and was able to convert an AVI into another AVI nicely. Nice looking GUI, indeed. I will test it for my next AC3 movie i guess, although i have to say even with nandub i personally never had sync probs with AC3 ( lucky me it seems ) ...

I'm not sure why people are reluctant to try it but instead continue using these "broken tools":rolleyes:

Broken tools ? I hope you are not talking about my beloved VdubMod my friend :( :( .... If AC3 muxing is broken, is there any way to fix this or is they way AVImux is working completely different ? Guess i have to do some reading ....

gabest

9th January 2003, 17:16

Originally posted by MaTTeR
alexnoe is correct, since using his AVImux tool and Valex's AC3filter I've seen no more playback problems with AC3. No longer do I have to sit and play with silly interleave values with NanDub.The interleave values had to be adjusted below a certain level because the mpgaudio.ax filter used to play it back was unable to brake samples into more when it was bigger than what a PES packet could hold. You are not experiencing this problem with valex's filter, because it can connect to the avi splitter directly and doesn't need this filter to chop things passing through.You stated seeking in the OGM file was slow as usual. Did you mean this in general or was it in regards to the DTS track being muxed into the OGM? Generally speaking, I've found that seeking in OGM is _much_ faster than AVI. Well, maybe it's just my imagination then, but when the seek to keyframes option is turned off I found it less responsive than with avi.

MaTTeR

9th January 2003, 20:40

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
I'm a bit slow here mate, so let me get this straight : You are muxing AC3 and XviD AVI in AVImuxGui, then convert the final AVI into OGM with koepi's OggMux and this is better than using VdubMod for muxing AC3 and XviD ? No, no, no:D I'm talking about the AVI container alone, nothing to do with OGM files. Try this- mux an AC3 and AVI file using the latest AVImux and then mux the same file(s) with NanDub, VdubMod or OggMux(pick 1). Play each of the clips from your CD drive and watch the LED activity light. What you should notice is that your CD drive no longer gets accessed like crazy and therefor the noise will also be cut down from the CD drive. Trust me, I like VdubMod just as much as you do but I found that AVImux does a better job for me when AC3 enters the equation, mainly because of the CD drive issues I mentioned. I'm hoping that alexnoe and the VdubMod guys could somehow work together and come up with a nice OGM/AC3 muxer that equals the effeciency of AVImux:-)

@Gabest,
Your correct, I've always had the seek to keyframes option on so thats why I never noticed the slow seeking.

In regards to the interleave values, actually it didn't have anything to do with Valex's filter. In reality, the only thing that keeps me from wasting loads of time in NanDub now is AVImux:) I could still use the Intervideo filters and playback the AC3 clip just as long as AVImux was used for the muxing, the playback would still be smooth. I only mentioned Valex's filter because of it being so feature rich compared to the alternative.

Edit- Chris,
In regards to the broken tools, alexnoe and ChibiJasmin are far more advanced on this subject than me. I think a few threads exist discussing the many problems of a few of the tools.

alexnoe

9th January 2003, 20:59

I don't have the specs of the OGM container, neither do I have any time at the moment to learn the format of a new container.

The whole mystery of LEDs and AVIs are rec-lists: Chunks (or better: Lists) which are per definition to be read in one piece from the source file.

Unless OGM includes something like this, there will be no possibility to implement it.

You would notice the same seeking differences for MP3 or DTS, if NanDub would support it ;)

ookzDVD

10th January 2003, 08:17

Wow...
I just notice that the WinDVD platinum's iviaudio.ax is able to play the .dts file :)

and thank you for Mr. alexnoe and Mr. gabest both of you make
.avi + .dts is possible now. :)

I just did a small clip test with the DTS demo clip,
and the muxed .avi + .dts result is ok. I just want to try another
longer clip.

Cyrius (the author of Ogmuxer) just need time to do .avi + .dts
into .ogm :)

Thank you.

Valex

10th January 2003, 14:07

@alexnoe
Can you send me a part of avi-dts file (~500k-1000k) to xvalex@mail.ru I want to check an old idea about DTS to SPDIF passthrough filter. I think it may be possible by the same way as AC3 to SPDIF passthrough.

Minako

10th January 2003, 16:39

I just wanted to let you know, that playing DTS-files with dtssource.ax in DShow works fine...not more, not less, didn't try avi with dts yet...thanx for your work :-)

Wilbert

10th January 2003, 16:59

I haven't tried to write an AVI file with AVI-Muxer...I don't see what this should be good for. AVIs with DTS will probably be over 2 GB and require OpenDML...and the AVI Muxer doesn't create OpenDML compliant files anyway...
I thought that you can cut them (during muxing) with AviMux (give maximal filesize)? That should be good enough.

alexnoe

10th January 2003, 17:04

AVI-Mux GUI can even create OpenDML compliant files :)
If you have DVD-R, you don't need to cut them.

gabest

10th January 2003, 17:10

If one could get one here where I live :angry: Anyone seen a pio dvr105 or the new sony ever?

Minako

10th January 2003, 17:32

Playing raw dts-stream in ZoomPlayer with DTSsource.ax results in the total playing time being too short!?

gabest

10th January 2003, 17:36

Is it the same dts which worked already? dtssource.ax just calculates the time after the bitrate and the file length.

Minako

10th January 2003, 19:22

Well, actually I must have overlooked the time issue on my first tests...

Although this is about dts in avi, I thought I might ask...will your work also contribute something to being able to play DTS (maybe DD, too) audio cds and or DD/DTS-WAVs with DirectShow?

specise_8472

10th January 2003, 23:53

Originally posted by Chibi Jasmin
Well, actually I must have overlooked the time issue on my first tests...

Although this is about dts in avi, I though I might ask...will your work also contribute something to being able to play DTS (maybe DD, too) audio cds and or DD/DTS-WAVs with DirectShow?

In graphedit using DTSSource, Iviaudio codec, wavedest, filewrite you can decode to wav. You can set the iviaudio codec for SPDIF out to get passthrough to your own amp.

Can also use Powerdvd codec for DTS decode.

Cheers

MaTTeR

11th January 2003, 00:24

Originally posted by specise_8472
In graphedit using DTSSource, Iviaudio codec, wavedest, filewrite you can decode to wav. Where is this "wavedest" filter you mention? It's the only filter I'm missing in Graph Edit for some reason. TIA

Minako

11th January 2003, 00:29

Originally posted by specise_8472
In graphedit using DTSSource, Iviaudio codec, wavedest, filewrite you can decode to wav. You can set the iviaudio codec for SPDIF out to get passthrough to your own amp.

Can also use Powerdvd codec for DTS decode.

Cheers

I have actually been talking about DTS-WAV files (the ones extracted for example from DTS audio CDs), you are talking of plain DTS-streams, aren't you? These play fine with dtssource already, without the need of graphedit...does your graphedit method deliver DTS-WAVs? Or what kind of WAV-output will I get with your method? Just curious, although it's not what I requested (DTS->DTS-WAV), I still might have a use for such a conversion.

And I know how to decode DTS-streams (thanx to DTSSource.ax they can now be played with DShow) or how to convert a DTS-WAV into plain DTS (just asked about this today: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42608)...what I wanted was to be able to open a DTS/DD-CD or the DTS/DD-WAVs directly in any DShow Player without first converting to plain DTS.

Minako

11th January 2003, 00:40

Originally posted by MaTTeR
Where is this "wavedest" filter you mention? It's the only filter I'm missing in Graph Edit for some reason. TIA

Get the graphedit pack from doom9 download, it's included there.

gabest

11th January 2003, 07:51

I have a big question :P What IS a DD/DTS-WAV, why is it useful? (Anyone has a sample?)

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 08:15

Originally posted by gabest
I have a big question :P What IS a DD/DTS-WAV, why is it useful? (Anyone has a sample?) http://doom9.org/BeSure.html

gabest

11th January 2003, 08:26

Thanks (though I'm lazy to make one :)), but I meant to ask about the file format mainly. I'd like to open them and extract the dts or ac3 data to be able to make a dshow reader filter.

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 08:54

the reader is mainly about byte-flipping (little/big endians), and frames syncing. (skipping silence).

ps,
dd-wav support could easily be added to Vale'x ac3filter. no need to write another dshow.

gabest

11th January 2003, 08:59

Looks like dts is just stored in its wiered 14bit/sample format after a wave header saying it is standard PCM, guess because this was the only way to let cd burner progs eat it.

gabest

11th January 2003, 09:02

Originally posted by DSPguru
ps,
dd-wav support could easily be added to Vale'x ac3filter. no need to write another dshow. Only when it is already muxed into avi. For a wav file the ac3filter won't get a chance to decide when to load because the wave parser will say it is a PCM stream.

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 09:15

Originally posted by gabest
For a wav file the ac3filter won't get a chance to decide when to load because the wave parser will say it is a PCM stream. but what if the wFormatTag was 0x2003 ?

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 09:17

Originally posted by gabest
Looks like dts is just stored in its wiered 14bit/sample formatthis is sometime used to decrease the dynamic range of the static noise when playbacking dtswav as plain wav.after a wave header saying it is standard PCM, guess because this was the only way to let cd burner progs eat it. true.

btw,
i installed dtssource.ax and tried playing a dts file in wmp. wmp showed the correct track length, but i couldn't hear anything.

gabest

11th January 2003, 09:20

With a dts or dts-wav file? Do you also have that newer iviaudio.ax? The graph should look like this: dtssource->iviaudio->audio renderer

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 09:27

Originally posted by gabest
With a dts or dts-wav file? Do you also have that newer iviaudio.ax? The graph should look like this: dtssource->iviaudio->audio renderer dts. using iviaudio.ax you posted. i didn't set a graph, just let wmp build it automaticly.

gabest

11th January 2003, 09:36

but what if the wFormatTag was 0x2003 ? You mean ac3: 0x2000, dts: 0x2001 :) But it isn't, because it must look like a normal PCM wav to be accepted by the audio cd burners. At least that's what I think after seeing one dts-wav file :)
dts. using iviaudio.ax you posted. i didn't set a graph, just let wmp build it automaticly.Hm, no idea. I need to see the file closer.

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 09:40

Originally posted by gabest
You mean ac3: 0x2000no, i don't :).
i'm talking about writing a tiny-tool that XORs the wFormatTag of a wavefile with 0x2002.
then you'll be able to take a dd-wav file and either burn it, or play it with wmp.

gabest

11th January 2003, 09:51

Still not good, in wmp you can only play it when it has tag=0x2000/0x2001 (ok, tiny util can change it quickly). This will pull in the "AVI <-> AC3/DTS" filter after the wave parser or avi splitter and lets iviaudio connect after all these. The other way with ac3filter doesn't need the last two filters, but it could only send dts to spdif and I'm not sure if it can decode 14 bit ac3 samples yet.

edit: reading 14bit and outputting 16bit samples is a pain, not sure when it will be ready :P

alexnoe

11th January 2003, 09:55

Then repack the stream...

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 09:56

Originally posted by gabest
Still not good, in wmp you can only play it when it has tag=0x2000/0x2001. This will pull in the "AVI <-> AC3/DTS" filter after the wave parser or avi splitter and lets iviaudio connect after all these. The other way with ac3filter doesn't need the last two filtersabout 0x2003, ac3filter only needs to update this line of code: if (*mtIn->FormatType() == FORMAT_WaveFormatEx && ((WAVEFORMATEX *)(mtIn->Format()))->wFormatTag == 0x2000)
but it could only send dts to spdif and I'm not sure if it can decode 14 bit ac3 samples yet. 14bit ac3 doesn't exist. 14bit dts are supported by all dts recievers.

gabest

11th January 2003, 09:59

Originally posted by DSPguru
about 0x2003, ac3filter only needs to update this line of code: if (*mtIn->FormatType() == FORMAT_WaveFormatEx && ((WAVEFORMATEX *)(mtIn->Format()))->wFormatTag == 0x2000)
14bit ac3 doesn't exist. 14bit dts are supported by all dts recievers. [/B]Either way, with ac3filter you can't playback dts-wav on pc speakers...

DSPguru

11th January 2003, 10:01

Originally posted by gabest
Either way, with ac3filter you can't playback dts-wav on pc speakers... true. therefore i think your work should focus mailny on DTS :D.

note that dd-wav/dts-wav are NOT efficient stream representations and therefore would nevEr be useful inside AVI.
they are only useful in a burnable wave files.

gabest

11th January 2003, 10:15

Originally posted by DSPguru
note that dd-wav/dts-wav are NOT efficient stream representations and therefore would nevEr be useful inside AVI.
they are only useful in a burnable wave files. Yea, I know, but it's not nice that we can't just click those files and listen to them.

MaTTeR

11th January 2003, 14:52

Originally posted by DSPguru
dd-wav support could easily be added to Vale'x ac3filter. no need to write another dshow. Hrm...I just woke up and haven't had coffee yet so maybe I'm not thinking clear;-) Could the same support also be added to his WinAmp AC3 plugin?

BTW- I also dumped a raw DTS file in WinAmp yesterday and I heard lots of garbage. It was interesting to see that WA at least knew how long the track length was and attempted to show the bitrate while playing.

Edit- typo

Minako

11th January 2003, 15:20

Originally posted by gabest
Yea, I know, but it's not nice that we can't just click those files and listen to them.

That was exactly my point! :D Next step would be to maybe even have some DShow filter capable of playing the burned DD/DTS-CDs (although this can be done with WinDVD (which does only play the burned CDs, not the DD/DTS-WAVs), DShow would be nicer)......

I am glad you guys are working on this...I'm sorry, I can't contribute any programming knowledge at all...

Suiryc

12th January 2003, 16:55

Hi

I demuxed a DTS track (768 kbps, 5 channels) from a VOB file using vStrip but I have a problem with this file.
Actually the DTS specs seems to be OK (I get correct settings I think) but then from time to time (well in fact it seems to appear every other frame) I find the same 4 bytes (0x88 0x02 0x00 0x01) between 2 adjacent DTS frames :/
I didn't see anything about that in the specs so I wonder if this could be a problem with vStrip when demuxing? Do you find the same pattern in your files or then what tools do you use to demux DTS files?

Thanks :)

specise_8472

12th January 2003, 17:43

Originally posted by Suiryc
Hi

I demuxed a DTS track (768 kbps, 5 channels) from a VOB file using vStrip but I have a problem with this file.

I find that Vobrator makes a better job of demuxing DTS from Vobs.
As for the byte pattern, I will look tonight.

As for the specs for DTS try US patent # 6,487,535 B1, MULTI-CHANNEL AUDIO ENCODER by Digital Theater Systems. Is more accurate than the patent mentioned in another forum here somewhere.

Cheers.

gabest

13th January 2003, 00:08

Originally posted by Suiryc
Actually the DTS specs seems to be OK (I get correct settings I think) but then from time to time (well in fact it seems to appear every other frame) I find the same 4 bytes (0x88 0x02 0x00 0x01) between 2 adjacent DTS frames :/vstrip doesn't output it right then, those bytes are not part of the dts data.

0x88: stream id (dts, first track)
0x02: no idea, can vary between 0x01-0x03 as I noticed
0x00 0x01: number of bytes from this point till the next ac3 or dts frame header. For dts this looks to be always 1, in other words dts is always aligned to the start of the PES packet. (ac3 isn't)

Minako

13th January 2003, 01:01

I just saw someone advertising a movie that was supposed to be avi with dts. It said there:

---

To play it you need a filter-pack (i included an installer) and WinDVD: dts_avi_filter.rar (Link removed) Most players should play the file then, but in WinDVD you can use SPDIF to put the DTS-data through to your DTS-amp

---

What dts-filter can that be...? Your test version gabest? Or is there something else...I will try to get the file and check it out...

UPDATE
@gabest: I checked the file, it is indeed the same as your test.rar from 05-Jan...

ChristianHJW

13th January 2003, 11:24

Originally posted by Chibi Jasmin
[B]I just saw someone advertising a movie that was supposed to be avi with dts. It said there: ...

No comments from my side. Looking forward to answer questions from confused Newbies about how to get this to work properly and why he cant demux in Virtualdub etc. ... no offense though, keep up the good work guys !

gabest

13th January 2003, 11:29

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
No comments from my side. Looking forward to answer questions from confused Newbies about how to get this to work properly and why he cant demux in Virtualdub etc. ... no offense though, keep up the good work guys ! It should behave exactly like an ac3-avi in virtualdub. Didn't try if a demuxed wav plays or can be remultiplexed, but cutting worked.

Minako

13th January 2003, 14:28

No comment from me either, I just thought, Gabest might be interested that his test version is already used for movie releases :D

MaTTeR

13th January 2003, 14:31

Chibi Jasmin,

Did you see what it's bitrate was? I'm curious if anyone has been able to transcode them down to lower bitrates to conserve space (eg. 1536->448kbps):)

BTW- Found the WaveDest filter in Doom9's package as you mentioned. Thx

Minako

13th January 2003, 15:42

I didn't download the movie...I just checked the dts-filter archive he linked to and that one was gabest's filter.

I don't think the guy transcoded the dts...judging from his post about the excellent sound right from the dvd...what is the point anyway of transcoding them? You can just as well keep the ac3 as well...at least normally...I don't think a lower bitrate dts makes sense...

If one of you guys really is interested in this, pm me and I'll give you a link, where to check this movie release out...but I doubt, it'll help anyone...

Suiryc

13th January 2003, 16:52

Originally posted by gabest
vstrip doesn't output it right then, those bytes are not part of the dts data.

0x88: stream id (dts, first track)
0x02: no idea, can vary between 0x01-0x03 as I noticed
0x00 0x01: number of bytes from this point till the next ac3 or dts frame header. For dts this looks to be always 1, in other words dts is always aligned to the start of the PES packet. (ac3 isn't)
Indeed I just tried VobRator and now I got a 'well-formed' file ... (i.e. without those extra bytes).
I wonder if SmartRipper and other programs can demux correctly those DTS tracks otherwise there would be a lot of 'bad' DTS streams (before authors of the programs fix this) ...

MaTTeR

13th January 2003, 17:17

Originally posted by Suiryc
I wonder if SmartRipper and other programs can demux correctly those DTS tracks otherwise there would be a lot of 'bad' DTS streams (before authors of the programs fix this) ... The DTS file(s) I got from both SmartRipper and DVDecrypter this weekend played back fine. Both apps I used are the latest versions.

Uhg...guess I need to take vStrip out of the new AC3 FAQ now? Just realized I'll have to raname it to AC3 & DTS FAQ too.

Suiryc

14th January 2003, 01:08

Originally posted by MaTTeR
The DTS file(s) I got from both SmartRipper and DVDecrypter this weekend played back fine. Both apps I used are the latest versions.

Uhg...guess I need to take vStrip out of the new AC3 FAQ now? Just realized I'll have to raname it to AC3 & DTS FAQ too.
Well the DTS track demuxed thanks to vStrip would play fine too (decoder has its own ways to 'skip' those bytes and read only the frames) but it contained data that were not part of the DTS stream ...

E-Male

14th January 2003, 16:51

erm, is there anything wrong in using this filter for a movie release?

Bad Joker

14th January 2003, 17:45

is it possible to use this filter to playback a vob file with dts???

i have a mpeg2 filter installed and i can playback the vob files with my wmp6.4, but after installing the dts filter i have still no sound in there.

is there a way to playback them either?

ps: if you want two dts vob to download, check out this site:
Cine Now Trailer (http://www.cinenow.com/fr/vobtrailer.php3)

the two dts trailer "sonic landscape" and "digital experience" are with dts sound

E-Male

14th January 2003, 19:34

try windvd or powerdvd, if they can playback the vobs from dvd they should also play them from HD

MaTTeR

15th January 2003, 00:38

Originally posted by Suiryc
(decoder has its own ways to 'skip' those bytes and read only the frames) but it contained data that were not part of the DTS stream ... Funny you should mention this since Valex mentioned in an email recently that the Intervideo filters alter the AC3 packets on the fly. I wonder if this is the change he is seeing in the bitsream? Perhaps the filter is skipping over incorrect bytes.

MaTTeR

15th January 2003, 17:57

Is it safe to say that at least version 4.x of WinDVD is required for AVI/DTS playback? I wasn't successful at all with any WinDVD v3.x builds. The files would seem to playback ok in all media players but the audio was silenced as alexnoe mentioned previously.

The 4.5.11 build I'm using now seems to work great(Not sure about trial versions though?). All DS media players act fine with the filter, even GraphEdit of course.

Edit- typo

Wilbert

21st January 2003, 13:00

Minako

21st January 2003, 13:38

@alexnoe: As you are currently working much on DTS, I thought I might ask here...what's new in 20-Jan-03 Version of AxiMuxGUI? :)

alexnoe

21st January 2003, 17:14

Bug fixes...

Minako

22nd January 2003, 13:06

Thanx!

alexnoe

22nd January 2003, 14:21

@wilbert:

AVI-Mux GUI currently only reads the frame size from the first DTS frame. Then, it reads blocks of this very size, regardless of the contents, and regardless of whether there is a frame header each time or not.

If your stream contained some crap between 2 frames, then what you describe would be the logical consequence.
I'll have to add resync capability for DTS :(

Wilbert

22nd January 2003, 14:38

If your stream contained some crap between 2 frames, then what you describe would be the logical consequence. I'll have to add resync capability for DTS :(
I hope that's not to much work :)

MaTTeR

29th January 2003, 18:14

Finally got around to doing a full rip of "Band Of Brothers" with the DTS track. The results are superb:D Just one more thx to all involved.

Has anyone figured out how to get a multi-channel WAV output from DTS yet? Or am I missing something obvious like a specific filter?:rolleyes:

Wilbert

30th January 2003, 10:36

I tried it with graphedit, using Wave dest and file writer. But I got 6 channel wav with noise in the first two channels (and the other channels silent). I guess in this way only stereo channels can be handled ?

gabest

30th January 2003, 11:10

It would be possible to make a splitter filter and output all channels into a different stream. A good exercise for a boring coder. (pls note that I'm not bored now :))

specise_8472

30th January 2003, 17:41

Originally posted by Wilbert
I tried it with graphedit, using Wave dest and file writer. But I got 6 channel wav with noise in the first two channels (and the other channels silent). I guess in this way only stereo channels can be handled ?

I have used graphedit with DTSSource -> Intervideo -> wave dest -> filewriter (I think thats right, as just done major - forced- upgrade and lost a lot of stuff:( ) And I got working stero wave.

I will try to re-create sometime this week when I get home from a long weekend away:)

Cheers

Wilbert

6th February 2003, 10:29

Any news?

ookzDVD

6th February 2003, 10:52

Thanks to Cyrius's Ogmuxer,

.AVI + .DTS into .OGM now IS possible :)

Wilbert

11th February 2003, 16:43

@alexnoe,

I fiddled around with AviMux, and found a bug. I muxed an avi with a dts stream (splitted over a multiple number of files). When I tried to demux the second stream AviMux gave an error (something like the first frames or bytes of the dts stream were incorrect).

I tried your new prerelease. It worked, except that it didn't give a message when the demuxing was complete (taskbar was staying at 100%). Is it easy to implement to demux the video stream, or did I miss that this is also possible?

alexnoe

11th February 2003, 17:02

No, currently you cannot save the video stream only (problem: if you select no audio stream, then all are used, which is usually more convenient...).

I could add another check box to activate / deactive this option. That's not that hard.

Demuxing audio does currently not raise a "ready"-message box, but that will also be implemented

Wilbert

11th February 2003, 17:11

I'm looking forward to your new prerelease :)

alexnoe

11th February 2003, 17:24

Mh...Macrivision has announced SafeDisc V2.9, probably including new weak sectors. Unfortunately, a (working) weak sector scanner has priortity. But it will be ready soon, and then i can get back to AVI-Mux GUI :D

lupino

16th March 2003, 11:07

A have problem with the dts. I tried DVD Kiss of the dragon. Using dvd2avi I demuxed dts track from the vobs and mux with avi (divx 5.03) in AVI-Mux GUI 1.12 eng (preload 500ms, interleave 250 Kb, even if rec list check box is or is not select). Everything seems to be OK, but when I select SPDIF output (instead of 5.1 or stereo speakers) the video play for examle 30 sec OK and then play very fast for 1 sec and the sound is often skiped. I do not know where is the problem, I have registred WINDVD 4.5 platinium and AVI/DTS filters from 5. 1. 03, for replying avi´s I use Bsplayer and I have Sound blaster 5.1 wiht SPDIF digital output (3,5 stereo jack) connected to DD/DTS decoder and I have not problem with replaying avi´s with AC3 via SPDIF. Please help, where is the problem? Thanx and sorry for my terrible English.

Wilbert

17th March 2003, 13:16

It would be possible to make a splitter filter and output all channels into a different stream. A good exercise for a boring coder. (pls note that I'm not bored now )
Gabest or anyone else, could you make such a filter when having some spare free time :)

lupino

17th March 2003, 19:03

It is very interesting. I searched forum for dts, spdif,.. and find that Bsplayer and WinDVD can not send corectly dts from avi via SPDIF, so I tried Powerdivx and it seems to be OK!! Powerdivx can send dts via SPDIF corectly. Still I dont know where is the problem, I wanna replaying my files in Bsplayer.

Maxiuca

26th April 2003, 01:14

Hi,

where can I get filewriter.ax and dtssource.ax? It seems that the links from this tread are down...

BTW. To playback dts files, should I use ivaudio from WinDVD3 or WinDVD4?

BTW2. :) Is there any tool that allows muxing a dts file to a vob file? I need to have a vob file that'll have ony dts sound in it. I managed creat such vob file with DVD Decrypter by turning the stream processing on demuxing everything but the DTS stream, but that's not quite the thing I want to do...

--

Maxiuca

alexnoe

26th April 2003, 09:26

Here's a mirror: http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/DTS.zip

WinDVD Platinum must be installed to replay DST AVIs

olorin

25th May 2003, 23:16

Just made an OGM with dts sound that plays like a charm in any player :)

Details:
Movie: xXx
Ripper: Smartripper, also demuxed the dts which was 5.1 768kbps.
Video encode: Xvid, hvs-better, vhq-4, chroma+opt, no b-frames at 1500kbps using vdubmod.
Muxer: Ogmuxer

All progs latest version.
Also installed Intervideo Windvd Platinum, dtssource.ax, avi2ac3dts.ax, DTSWAVSource.ax

Blight

30th May 2003, 10:24

A few experiments...

DTSSource on DTS-WAV file doesn't work... I then used Graph Edit (AVI/WAV Parser -> Dump) to get only the DTS data, but even then the DTSSource filter didn't recognize the content.

Does any have any sample AVI file with DTS audio so I can experiment on a bit? (small file)

gabest

30th May 2003, 15:49

dts-wav has a silly file format, not just because every 2 bits out of 16 were left empty, but because it has a wave header with a PCM format tag and so the wave parser creates a PCM media type for it making a dts-wav decoder/transcoder filter impossible to register. It could have been handled in the source filter too, but I didn't implement the reading of this files yet.

alexnoe

30th May 2003, 15:59

BTW, don't even try to use AVI-Mux GUI for 14-out-of-16 bit files...even if it recognises the sync header, the output is most likely crap, if you get any output at all...

Blight

31st May 2003, 06:24

gabest:
If the filter could be made to load the file, A custom function could quickly read the WAV header and create a special graph for it.

The same can be done on a source filter level, but that may break standard WAV playback.

BTW, Microsoft in in denial regarding the VMR9 and Navigation issue... If you can pitch in and comment about it in the DirectX SDK board, we might actually get them to test it out.

gabest

31st May 2003, 06:51

Done :D

specise_8472

31st May 2003, 07:05

This may be a bit off topic, then again not:)

The missing bits can be used for HDCD encoding material. IE 20bit sound. That is why there is a flag bit in the DTS header specs for it.

Just a bit of trivia.
Here is a quote from the originators of HDCD

Another area where Pacific Microsonics is working to broaden HDCD applications is multichannel delivery. In January, the company announced an agreement with DTS Entertainment (Digital Theater Systems Inc.) to "work together to enable producers, engineers and record labels to use the HDCD process as the front-end recording technology for DTS Digital Surround 5.1 music CD releases." Ritter explains that "in the DTS header there is now a place for a flag that has been identified as an HDCD flag. That feature is implemented now in DSPs from companies such as Analog Devices that handle decoding of both DTS and HDCD. If a player has both DTS and HDCD in it, then if a DTS recording was made with HDCD, the HDCD playback filter will be selected. But there will be no amplitude processing going on." Ritter also notes that with the Model Two, HDCD encoding will be possible not only for DTS CDs, but also for DTS tracks on DVD-Video discs.