PAL to NTSC project--Microcosmos. MANY questions unanswered by guides. Please help.

[fubarduck]

Hello. Let me try to explain my project, and what I have done as accurately as possible. I have a lot of questions, and I have found this project to be difficult to the point where I'll definitely be writing my own guide on the PAL to NTSC DVD conversion process. The DVD I am working with is Microcosmos PAL. I am getting the audio sync'd perfectly with the video, but the video plays very "jerky" on my standalone. Below I will explain exactly what I have done to create my video, and hopefully someone can assist in helping me create a nice, smoothly-running film.

1) I ripped the DVD to hard drive. I used DVD2AVI to create a .D2V file and rip the DD 5.1 AC3 file.

2) I used Headac3he to convert the AC3 to WAV, CoolEdit to stretch the audio file, and Headac3he again to create an MP2. No problems here.

3) I used BitrateViewer to analyze the original VOBs. It appeared that the DVD was interlaced, rather than progressive. I treated the DVD from this point onwards as interlaced. Is there a better way to check to see if the film is interlaced? What program would I use, what file would I open, and how would I analyze the movie for interlaced frames to check the validity of BitrateViewer?

4) Because I believed the film was interlaced, I used the conversion script here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35387&highlight=ntsc+to+pal+conversion to frameserve my interlaced film with AVISynth. The following line of code, in particular, was rather confusing:

ConversionType = (OutputFrameRate <= Input.framerate) ? 1 : 0

The options for this line of code were 0, 1, and 2. I assumed that the very last character in this line (the zero) is the only one to be changed. Was I correct in assuming such? I selected Option 2 like this:

ConversionType = (OutputFrameRate <= Input.framerate) ? 1 : 2


5) Now that I had my AVS script, it was time to transcode. TMPGEnc is my encoder of choice, so I loaded it up with TMPGEnc and now I was confused. In my options, do I want to set it to pretend that it is an NTSC film and set it just like I am encoding an NTSC DVD? Here are the options I used in TMPGEnc:

Under "Video" tab:
Stream Type: MPEG2 Video
Size: 720 x 480
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Display
Frame Rate: 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 FPS)
Rate Control Mode: 2 Pass VBR
Bitrate: 7000 kbits/sec
VBV Buffer Size: 0 (Automatic)
Profile & Level: Main Profile & Main Level (MP@ML)
Video Format: NTSC
Encode Mode: 3:2 Pulldown when playback
YUV format: 4:2:0
DC Component Precision: 10 bits
Motion search precision: Highest quality (very slow)

Under "Advanced" tab:
Video source type: Interlace
Field order: Top field first (field A)
Source aspect ratio: 16:9 525 line (NTSC)
Video arrange Method: Full screen (keep aspect ratio)

None of the boxes below are checked.

Under "GOP structure" tab:
Number of I picture in GOP: 1
Number of P picture in GOP: 5
Number of B picture in GOP: 2
Output interval of sequence header: 1
MAX number of frames in a GOP: 0 (No limitation)

None of the boxes below are checked.

Nothing in the "Quantize matrix" tab was changed.
--

I used these settings in TMPGEnc because they are the settings I use to normally transcode NTSC DVDs. With my method, please let me know if any settings must be changed for this conversion to work optimally.


6) Now, I had an M2V and MP2 file to work with in Maestro. Now, I was confused about something else. Do I need to do a 2:3 pulldown using pulldown.exe after the settings I have used in the AVS script and in TMPGEnc? I tried burning a DVD with the M2V straight out of TMPGEnc along with the MP2 file I made, as well as another DVD with the M2V getting a 2:3 pulldown. Both ended up with jerky, crappy video. If I do need a pulldown, would I need any additional parameters?

7) I used Maestro to mux my M2Vs with the MP2, compiled, and burned with RecordNow MAX as I normally do for my projects.

OK, so this is basically the whole process and all of my questions in a nutshell. Unfortunately, the guides for this process are all inadequate, so once I learn how to do things correctly, I will write a guide that even dumb people can use! Thanks in advance for anything that can lead me in the right direction.

fubarduck

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by fubarduck
2) I used Headac3he to convert the AC3 to WAV, CoolEdit to stretch the audio file, and Headac3he again to create an MP2. No problems here, although I do wonder if there is a way to preserve the Dolby Digital format and still be able to stretch the file? Can BeSweet do something like this? If so, what settings must be used?i wonder why do i bother writing & updating the manuals in BeSweet's 'Help' folder..

[fubarduck]

Thanks DSP_Guru, I will check the help folder. Please consider my question about BeSweet solved. Is anyone able to help with the rest? My main concern here is the video, and SOMEONE has to have done this right before.

fubarduck

[auenf]

Originally posted by fubarduck
3) I used BitrateViewer to analyze the original VOBs. It appeared that the DVD was interlaced, rather than progressive. I treated the DVD from this point onwards as interlaced. Is there a better way to check to see if the film is interlaced? What program would I use, what file would I open, and how would I analyze the movie for interlaced frames to check the validity of BitrateViewer?

for PAL, you really need to physically look at the footage in a dvd player (with deinterlacing settings off)

5) Now that I had my AVS script, it was time to transcode. TMPGEnc is my encoder of choice, so I loaded it up with TMPGEnc and now I was confused. In my options, do I want to set it to pretend that it is an NTSC film and set it just like I am encoding an NTSC DVD? Here are the options I used in TMPGEnc:

you were treating the PAL file as a true interlaced file, but then treated the converted file as a FILM source? (the avs script you linked to says specifically at the top that its for interlaced to interlaced conversion, not FILM source.

6) Now, I had an M2V and MP2 file to work with in Maestro. Now, I was confused about something else. Do I need to do a 2:3 pulldown using pulldown.exe after the settings I have used in the AVS script and in TMPGEnc? I tried burning a DVD with the M2V straight out of TMPGEnc along with the MP2 file I made, as well as another DVD with the M2V getting a 2:3 pulldown. Both ended up with jerky, crappy video. If I do need a pulldown, would I need any additional parameters?

again, previous answer, you shouldnt have encoded in 23.976.

7) I used Maestro to mux my M2Vs with the MP2, compiled, and burned with RecordNow MAX as I normally do for my projects.

a NTSC DVD requires one of the following audio formats to be present on the disc: AC3, PCM

a PAL DVD requires one of the following audio formats to be present on the disc: AC3, PCM, MPEG-2



check the acutal source, and treat it as FILM if necessary (ie dont use that particular avs script), or treat it all as interlaced and stick to 25fps -> 29.97fps conversion.

Enf...

[fubarduck]

auenf, I really appreciate all of your help. Please allow me to ask a few more questions, of which I am still confused about.

or PAL, you really need to physically look at the footage in a dvd player (with deinterlacing settings off)

So could I do this in PowerDVD? I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't really know what an interlaced frame looks like. Will it just like a mix between the previous and the following frame to make it flow together? Are there any visual artifacts i should look for to recognize interlaced frames?

you were treating the PAL file as a true interlaced file, but then treated the converted file as a FILM source? (the avs script you linked to says specifically at the top that its for interlaced to interlaced conversion, not FILM source.
again, previous answer, you shouldnt have encoded in 23.976.

Ok. So should I be setting my TMPGEnc to 29.97 FPS, rather than 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 FPS)? And for my new AVS script, should I use the line AssumeFPS(29.97,True) rather than AssumeFPS(23.976,True)? Finally, what would I select for "Encode Mode" rather than 3:2 pulldown when playback? Would the "interlaced" option now be the optimal setting?

a NTSC DVD requires one of the following audio formats to be present on the disc: AC3, PCM

The MP2 worked fine in one of the NTSC DVDs I burned on my standalone. Unfortunately, I am still having trouble converting the Dolby Digital with the time stretch with BeSweet--I have thoroughly browsed the help files and can't seem to figure out exactly how. The MP2 should be adequate until I figure it out, though.

I really am thankful for your help on this, auenf--you'll be my new personal Jesus if you can help me get this done right ;)

Thanks, and please reply!

fubarduck

[auenf]

Originally posted by fubarduck
So could I do this in PowerDVD? I apologize for my ignorance, but I don't really know what an interlaced frame looks like. Will it just like a mix between the previous and the following frame to make it flow together? Are there any visual artifacts i should look for to recognize interlaced frames?

basically what to look for is what is wrong with miss piggy in the following screen cap:

http://www9.brinkster.com/sportschook/?keepfishin.jpg

Ok. So should I be setting my TMPGEnc to 29.97 FPS, rather than 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 FPS)? And for my new AVS script, should I use the line AssumeFPS(29.97,True) rather than AssumeFPS(23.976,True)? Finally, what would I select for "Encode Mode" rather than 3:2 pulldown when playback? Would the "interlaced" option now be the optimal setting?

heres where you need to work out the answer to the question before:

- if it is interlaced, you want to set it to 29.97 fps in tmpgenc, no pulldown.
- if it is progressive, then you should set it to 23.976 (use assume fps in avisynth, rather than the long avisynth script) and use pulldown.

The MP2 worked fine in one of the NTSC DVDs I burned on my standalone. Unfortunately, I am still having trouble converting the Dolby Digital with the time stretch with BeSweet--I have thoroughly browsed the help files and can't seem to figure out exactly how. The MP2 should be adequate until I figure it out, though.

i think there is a direct AC3->AC3 mode in BeSweet (1.4 and newer i think) which will do a 'framerate' conversion in the audio for you. i cant recall it (ive only use besweet once, and it wasnt AC3->AC3), but i think dspguru has typed the command into a thread ages ago.

Enf..

[fubarduck]

Thanks once again for all the help. I figured out the BeSweet deal now, I believe, and I am following your advice to try a new encode (I'm trying one now just hoping that it's Progressive). One more question: I can't seem to find a way to turn off Deinterlacing in Windows Media Player or PowerDVD. If I find out that the film is interlaced after all, I will quit the encode I have going now and do one at 29.97 FPS. Would anyone happen to know a setting I can change in one of those programs to check for interlaced frames? Thanks very much, I've made some serious progress!

fubarduck

[DSPguru]

if you still believe there are issues with BeSweet, you can submit a bugreport in the 'audio encoding' forum. here's how to :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15738

[fubarduck]

Great, I re-encoded the video treading it as Progressive and it came out perfectly! Thanks a million everyone. I need to write a new guide, for myself at the least O_o!

Anyway, I am only having one more problem but it's concerning the audio so I'll ask that in the audio encoding forum.

Thanks everyone!

fubarduck