compression in ulead studio7 ??????

[al1959]

can anyone tell me how to compress a captured file down so i can fit it onto two disks. i have looked through the ulead videostudio 7 for some time now, but cannot find how to do it.

i`m capturing vhs pal to svcd
thanks

al

[Swan]

I saw your earlier post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39342) and was about to reply to it, so there was no need to start a new thread, al1959.

You said your 90 minute Mpeg-2 (SVCD), captured with VideoStudio 6, came out too large to split into 2 files, which would fit on 1 CD each.

The way to decrease filesize when dealing with Mpeg-2 is to increase the number of B and P frames and lower the bitrate on the audio and video. This will naturally decrease the quality as well, especially on a direct capture to Mpeg-2. But since the file must be compliant with the SVCD specification, you need to find out how much you can tweak the settings in VideoStudio's SVCD template before you create a Mpeg-2 file that is not compliant (and won't play on a standalone DVD player).

First, you need to research what the specification for SVCD is. What is the lowest limit on the video bitrate, what is the lowest acceptable audio bitrate, is variable video bit rate supported, etcetera. I don't know this, so I suggest you search on the web to find the specification and perhaps also take this to the VCD/SVCD forum here.

Then, modify the SVCD template in VideoStudio and re-capture.
You could also take the existing Mpeg-2 (SVCD compliant) file you have already captured and re-encode it with TMPGEnc, but this will give you inferior quality. I personally tested the SVCD preset in Ulead VideoStudio and in my view it gave appaling results (lots of blocking). Don't you see a large amount of blocks (squares) in the video you captured?

The best would be to capture with some form of slightly-lossy compression, then re-encode that with TMPGEnc to SVCD. It has a neat bitrate calculator and a wizard at startup that shows exactly how much video will fit on a given CD media. But since capturing in avi format is tricky (audio/video sync issues) I don't want to recommend it. But perhaps you could also try capturing at a very high bitrate in VideoStudio and then re-encoding this to SVCD with TMPGEnc?

I am sure, even though it is a re-encode, from Mpeg-2 to Mpeg-2, it will look better than direct capture with VideoStudio's SVCD preset.

The highest quality I can get from VideoStudio is setting the resolution to 720 x 576, the video bitrate 9954, audio bitrate 384 and use only I-frames and 1 P. If you can, test that. Then, reencode this to SVCD with TMPGEnc.

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
again thanks for your timw.
as you might have noticed, i`m new to this.!!!!

yes i agree with you, the results so far have been very blocky.

with regards to altering the bit rate in studio7 ?
i have gone into capture mode, options then to mpeg-2 video bit rate settings only to find the box greyed out. do you have any idea how to get this section operational again.

thanks

al

[Swan]

with regards to altering the bit rate in studio7 ?
Ok, now I'm confused. Are you using VideoStudio 5, VideoStudio 6 or Pinnacle Studio 7? :D

If you're using VideoStudio 6, yes, there is a way of changing the preset, by creating your own. When you first start the application, select the PAL SVCD preset.
Then, after switching to the Capture mode, select "Options" then "MPEG Settings". In the window that appears, under "Special Settings" there are settings for Mpeg-1 or Mpeg-2, Performance (Motion Estimation), frame rate, and under Audio, Video Bitrate and Advanced, there are settings too. Check each and every one of these and write down the values.
Then, in the drop-down-box under "Special Settings", scroll to the top and select "User defined 1" or "User Defined 2". Now, all settings are unlocked.

Perhaps the SVCD presets are kept but unlocked when you do this. Since I have previously defined both User Defined 1 & 2 with my own settings, the only way for me to redefine the SVCD preset would be to copy all the settings in that preset (writing them down) and manually input the values into either of the user defined presets. Boy, that was a lot of words.. Hope you understand what I mean anyway. :)

And thanks for letting me know you see blocks all over the place when using the SVCD preset too. It is actually worse quality to capture using Ulead's SVCD preset in VideoStudio than with the SVCD preset in the software that came with my Pinnacle card (Vision)!
The quality from VideoStudio's SVCD preset really sucks.

By the way, I saw that VideoStudio does use Variable Bit Rate in the SVCD preset. I capture in much higher resolution and bitrate than the SVCD preset and I have found that VideoStudio is extremely poor at VBR. If I were you, I'd give the stuff I wrote previously a shot (capture at 720 x 576, i an P frames, highest *constant* video - and audio bitrate) and encode this to SVCD compliant Mpeg-2 with TMPGEnc. If you do, please report back if it looked better than a capture from the SVCD preset.

/Swan

[al1959]

thanks swan

i`m using ulead video studio 6

[al1959]

hi swan
what a differance , thanks very much, only captured 30 secs so far and the playback picture is great. this is what comes of asking advise from someone who knows what they are doing.

this will keep me occupied for a good while now, i have just had a new heart valve fitted so my new hobby is changing all my old classic films over to disk.

i am getting a larger hard drive fitted tomorrow so it will take me a couple of days to have a go at this properly.

would it be possible to keep an eye on this post over the next couple of days in case i need any more advise from you, i know its asking a lot, but you have made things so much clearer for me.

many thanks swan

al

[Swan]

would it be possible to keep an eye on this post over the next couple of days in case i need any more advise from you, i know its asking a lot, but you have made things so much clearer for me.

You bet! No problem.
On one condition: that you let me know what an SVCD, encoded with TMPGEnc, encoded from a high-quality, full resolution VideoStudio Mpeg-2 looks like. ;)

/Swan

PS The PAL DVD preset usually gives me good results too.

[al1959]

hi swan
ok, i will will send you one and you can decide.

al

[Swan]

Thanks Al, but your word will be enough. You don't have to send me a sample. I just want to hear your opinion on the difference with a SVCD capture and a high-quality capture encoded to SVCD format with TMPGEnc.

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
ok i`m back up and running with a 60gb hard drive.

i tried to capture a film this morning at the settings you gave me, i managed to get 60 minutes of the film before an error popped up on screen telling me i had run out of alloted disk space, (the captured file at this point was 3.9gb). i also noticed that a lot of frames had been dropped (2000). i never lost any while you were directing me over the last couple of days.

have you any ideas??????
i must add that the video and audio quality of the film i captured was perfect.

thanks

al

[Swan]

Hi al1959
Glad to hear you're back.

tried to capture a film this morning at the settings you gave me, i managed to get 60 minutes of the film before an error popped up on screen telling me i had run out of alloted disk space, (the captured file at this point was 3.9gb).
Hmm.. I wonder if you're using Windows 98 or WindowsMe?
These operating systems use a file format system known as FAT32 and one of the limitations is that a file's size can't be larger than 4 Gigabytes. What can be done about that? Either switch to Windows 2000 or Windows XP and use the NTFS file format instead. Or, use a capturing software that captures segmented. So, when you capture and exceed the 4 gigabytes allowed, the software starts capturing to a new file. The down-side of that is that you may get a glitch (a hickup) when you play for example file #1 and it switches to file #2.
If you're using Windows 98, I would recommend you to buy Windows 2000 or XP (I'm on Windows 2000 because it works like a clock, plus I don't like the activation scheme Microsoft has put into XP).

i also noticed that a lot of frames had been dropped (2000). i never lost any while you were directing me over the last couple of days.
Did you capture an entire film then too?
I have noticed that I can capture 45 minutes without a problem, and then start losing frames, if I set for example the Performance setting too high. If you're using the PAL DVD preset, try lowering the Performance value. If you were dropping frames with custom settings, lower the bitrate and see if that won't help. Lowering the Performance value and reducing the video bitrate will eliminate dropped frames.

What are your computers specs? It is new or old?

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
i`m using windows 2000, and the computer is 4 months old
60gig hard drive
radion7000 graphics card
1200 processor.

no i did not capture the full film earlier, just 15 minutes.

would i need to drop the bit rate to get a larger capture. i was capturing at 9000 on the bit rate

lots of problems, but it is great fun dont you think

thanks

al

[Swan]

al1959, can you double-check that you have NTFS?
Open Windows Explorer and Right click on your hard drive. Select Properties. Under File System does it say NTFS or FAT32?

How much free space do you have on the hard drive?

would i need to drop the bit rate to get a larger capture. i was capturing at 9000 on the bit rate
No, your file system shouldn't complain like it did, not should VideoStudio. I have captured two hours straight many times at the highest possible settings and have never got any error messages about exceeding file sizes.

lots of problems, but it is great fun dont you think
Yes. I agree. And your attitude will take you far. This stuff isn't easy, but with lots of patience and determination, one can get great results from capturing in Mpeg-2.

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
ok i admit i`m a plonker, i have just realised i am using ME.
THE GOOD NEWS IS THE GUY NEXT DOOR HAS 2000 !.
so at the moment i am stuck till i get 2000 on.
with regards to disk space, i have 51gig free.

is there any special settings i need to choose when intalling 2000??.

in the meantime i will have a go at capturing a couple of 30 minute shows (dads army). i will let you know how that goes.

again can you keep an eye on my posts please.

thanks

al

[Swan]

is there any special settings i need to choose when intalling 2000??.
Don't think so. Just pay attention during installation (at the very beginning) when the installation asks what format you want so that you get NTFS. Since you have ME installed, it may presume that you want to upgrade to Windows 2000 and asks if you want to continue using FAT32.
I am not sure, it's been a while since I installed this machine I'm using now, so I don't recall all the steps. :) Just keep an eye out during installation and make sure you select NTFS for file system if the installer doesn't suggest it by itself.

in the meantime i will have a go at capturing a couple of 30 minute shows (dads army). i will let you know how that goes.
That's a fun show! :)

again can you keep an eye on my posts please.
I am a regular here, so no worries.

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
well i`m back up and running, of a sort anyway.
i now have xp so that should sort out the limitrd file system.
i managed to copy a 35 minute dads army show with the bit rate at 6000. great playback except for a sort of strobe effect on any fast movents, such as arms or a fast moving object. tried to capture at 9000 bit rate which gave me a 1.52gig file then i tried to use tmpge to compress it. at this point tmpge tells me the file cannot be opened or is not supported. does tmpge need a patch or could it be that i captured the file as an mpeg 2. ?
as you can tell i must be so close now to capturing good quality video, the last thing i expected to hold me up was tmpge.

do you have any thoughts on the above, if you have, throw them this way please swan
thanks
al

[Swan]

Hi!
managed to copy a 35 minute dads army show with the bit rate at 6000. great playback except for a sort of strobe effect on any fast movents, such as arms or a fast moving object.
Perhaps what you see is interlace?
Here's more info on interlace:
http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace.htm
Interlaced videos look like the picture of Star Trek's William Riker at 3/4 from the bottom of that page.
If you could output that video to the TV, it would look great.
TV is an interlaced display, so it will look good there, but your computer monitor is progressive and it shows the two fields that make up a frame at the same time (the TV does not).
If you don't have the time to learn about interlace, just trust me, you want your video interlaced when you create SVCD's (or DVDs) and plan to watch them on the TV.:)
If you're hungry to learn about interlace, here's more info:
http://www.lurkertech.com/lg/fields/fields.html
Loads of pages about interlace and deinterlace (but don't tick that setting to deinterlace in VideoStudio after reading the stuff) ;)
http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

then i tried to use tmpge to compress it. at this point tmpge tells me the file cannot be opened or is not supported. does tmpge need a patch or could it be that i captured the file as an mpeg 2. ?
Can you please open TMPGEnc, open Environmental Settings and check if you have any Mpeg-2 filters listed there? I don't have the program in the computer I am typing on now, so I can't be more specific, but I'm sure you'll find the "flap" in Environmental Settings that lists all the filters TMPGEnc uses.

It does need a valid Mpeg-2 playback filter to be installed in Windows to be able to open your files. For the encoding, it does not need it, but it needs a filter to be able to open and access the file.
If you don't see any filter, such as one with the name Cyberlink, Sony or Ligos in it, I can recommend downloading a demo of Ligos LSX-Mpeg Player version 4 at http://www.ligos.com/lsx_mpeg_player.htm It works great and I actually just bought it on-line, after being so pleased with the demo's performance (and the previous versions I've had has worked well too).

About TMPGEnc and why the need for an external Mpeg-2 playback filter here:
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/e_hist2.html

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
thanks for the info. i was able to get tmpge sorted straight away, my mate had one of the filters. i will check out the interlace problem later today.
could i have your advise on using tmpge. i seem to be getting a sync problem when reducing files, have you any idea what causes this and can it be fixed. ?

many thanks

al

[Swan]

Interlace is not a problem, it is good. Just verify that the "strobes" are interlace. If so, then that's good.
Do not deinterlace or do anything to combat it.

Does audio and video go out of sync when you re-encode the video to SVCD format with TMPGenc?

This has not happened to me before. What version of TMPGEnc do you have?
You can also encode to SVCD format in Ulead VideoStudio. Test that, does it make e difference on the sync?
Had you edited the file before encoding it in TMPGEnc?

/Swan

[al1959]

hi swan
i did as you advised with the interlace and the resultd were perfect.yes the audio was going out of sync when i re-encoded with tmpge, but this time everything came out ok.
i`m using tmpge 2.53.35.130

when using this programme is it best to re-enode first then to cut the file ?.

the last question is i have just started to re-encode another 90 min film and for some reason this time it will take 17 hours to to it. i have not changed any settings on ulead with regards to quality capture. i gather the setting on tmpge must have something to do with it. i know that if you go into settings at the bottom there is something that you can change (can`t remember the name and the prog is running at the moment) to alter the qaulity. this is set at normal.

well with your help my first full film was a great. the picture and audio quality were very good (6000 bits and mono audio at 112 bits).
it looks like i can get on with changing my old films over now, i only need to sort out the encoding time on tmpge. do you have any ideas on this that will still give me a decent picture. ????????

thanks for all the help you gave me, you must be a very patient man to be able to put up with what must seem like straight forward questions. should anyone now ask similar questions on the board i would now be in a position to help.

thanks

al

[Swan]

yes the audio was going out of sync when i re-encoded with tmpge, but this time everything came out ok.
Uh-oh. Audio and video went out of sync when you had edited the file?
I would cut the files first, check the sync on playback, then re-encode. But, test to SVCD-encode a file straight from VideoStudio (do not edit it first). Also, download a newer version of TMPGEnc and see if that helps. Version 2.58 is good. Or 2.57. You can also try the latest one, but I'm having some issues with it personally.

the last question is i have just started to re-encode another 90 min film and for some reason this time it will take 17 hours to to it.
Yes, TMPGEnc is slow. If you haven't touched any settings (such as the Motion Estimation Setting), then I'm not sure why it would take that long to encode a 90 minute video. I encoded a SVCD from an 720 x 576 Mpeg-2 (a whole 90 minute movie) and it took just about 7 hours.
Did you perhaps forget to load the SVCD preset?

You can also try re-encoding with VideoStudio. It can also create SVCD. It's probably faster than TMPGEnc, but TMPGEnc is well known for its superb quality.

for all the help you gave me, you must be a very patient man Actually, I'm a (very patient?) woman. But thanks for the compliment. :)

/Swan

[al1959]

trust me to put my foot in it !

sorry, i don`t know why i thought you would me male.

i will give your advice a go and let you know

thanks

al

[Swan]

No problem, most women I know don't encode Mpeg-2 or capture from the TV/VHS, so I guess it's natural to assume I'm a man. But maybe a man wouldn't select a Swan as their avatar? :-)

Anyway, good luck! Found a very interesting page which answers all my questions on SVCD: http://www.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/svcd/overview/

And here is one that explains how interlace works (and why it is used in television) very well:
http://www.projectorpeople.com/news_info/pulldown_1.asp?page=2

/Swan