Which Distro? [Archive] - Doom9's Forum

omol

2nd December 2002, 21:02

Originally posted by Emp3r0r
I have waited a couple years and decided it is finally time to give linux another chance. I wanna download a bootable iso that works as well as say windows2000 CD. Can someone provide me with a link to one? Also, why must I download 3 discs for Redhat 8.0? Isn't that insane? Do I need all of them. I would like a one cd distro. Eagerly awaiting advice, Emp

Try knoppix (http://www.knoppix.com/) or Proggeny gui installation CD for Debian (search in debian.org, their search engine is currently down). Both are single CD and both are debian based, so you can access to about 8000 packages online in lots of debian mirrors around the globe. Gentoo has no easy installation but it is the hottest distribution now.

regards,
omol

Schultz

3rd December 2002, 02:01

I perfer Slackware http://www.slackware.com but it don't have a Nice GUI install like Redhat but does come with alot of packages. etc.

Hiro2k

3rd December 2002, 07:56

Im using the Newb Version of Linux......... Mandrake 9.0

don't laugh too hard!

But seriously it's nice and easy to use. I didn't have any trouble having it detect all of my new hardware and I am now starting to learn how to program in Perl with Linux.

Can't wait to start ripping in Linux!

cjv

3rd December 2002, 09:38

@Emp3r0r:

If you have never used Linux before, but are willing to learn and don't want your hand held, then I suggest Debian to start. Assuming you have broadband, you will only have to download a 30 meg ISO, and then during the install it downloads only the packages you need. You will end up with a clean, fast, solid install. There is a lot to learn, but if this is just for fun, it will be worth it. The biggest plus is that Debian has a very mature package management system, and installing any app is a matter of typing one simple command. The package and all its dependencies are downloaded, unpacked, installed, and configured automatically.

From then you can move to Gentoo if you so desire, which is the cream of the crop like omol said. Once you go to Gentoo, you will never go back!

cjv

omol

3rd December 2002, 22:31

Originally posted by cjv
@Emp3r0r:

If you have never used Linux before, but are willing to learn and don't want your hand held, then I suggest Debian to start. Assuming you have broadband, you will only have to download a 30 meg ISO, and then during the install it downloads only the packages you need. You will end up with a clean, fast, solid install. There is a lot to learn, but if this is just for fun, it will be worth it. The biggest plus is that Debian has a very mature package management system, and installing any app is a matter of typing one simple command. The package and all its dependencies are downloaded, unpacked, installed, and configured automatically.

From then you can move to Gentoo if you so desire, which is the cream of the crop like omol said. Once you go to Gentoo, you will never go back!

cjv

@cjv

Yes, Netinst image(s) usually weighs in less than a 100 meg, but Emp3ror needs a win2k alike installation so I don't think the Debian installer is going to cut. Knoppix worths checking out in this case, though I personally dislike KDE. Being migrated from Redhat (from 3 to 7.3) to Debian, I personally would never touched any Redhat/RPM based distro. They reminds me of DLL hell in another OS.

@all

Emp3ror mentioned "one cd distro".

regards,
omol

X-Ray

6th December 2002, 05:35

You will have a problem finding a general-purpose one-cd distro, simply because there's so much interesting software.
I'd suggest you to try some one-CD-bootable distros like Knoppix (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html), which is Debian based, or Demlinux: I strongly suggest to try Knoppix, simply because it is one of the most impressive projects of the last months.

When you are about to install a 'real' all purpose (there are many specialized Distros for stuff like Routers, Stand-Alone DivXPlayers or RescueSystems), I'd suggest you to try one of the following:

RedHat - Ease of Use, Stability and Speed in one great Distro. Some might call it bloated and they might even be right, but especially for a beginner it's a really good distro, because it's easy but doesn't try to hide the power of the system like others do (Mandrake, Lycoris, Lindows etc.)

Debian - Stable, fast, mature and with the sexiest packaging system of the world. The installation might a bit hard though, especially if you never did a GNU/Linux install before, but if you read the documentation and played around with RedHat for a month, you should be able to do it. The Stable (Woody) branch might seem outdated, but it's more mature than every other Distribution and well tested, if you want something newer you can try testing or even sid (BE CAREFUL!)

Gentoo - Sexy Sources, fast and absolutely bleeding edge. if you always want the latest greatest and fastest this is the distro for you. As opposed to Debian or RedHat it is not based on binary packages, but a FreeBSD a like ports system (Debian users might also see similarities to apt), so every software you choose to install gets compiled for YOUR system, which takes a while, but results in the fastest binaries possible. Installation seems complicated at first, but if you follow the instrcutions it should be as Debian.

Slackware - I haven't worked with Slackware yet, but is known to be stable, secure and pretty minimalistic (good as a base for your own distribution/project) in the beginning. If you use the packages of the current branch it can be pretty bleeding edge though.

dev0

P.S. A great Overview over Linux Distributions is Distrowatch (http://www.distrowatch.com)

blixi

7th December 2002, 01:22

and just to add some little comments:

- 1 CD install should be possible with all distris
- Mandrake is easy to install, has a really nice software managment ( debian-like).
- debian isn't so easy to install, but this is THE distri, cause its not maintained comercial.

Greets

Steffen

orionware

8th December 2002, 16:34

I have two machines, one running Mandrake 9 and one running Redhat 8. I like redhat better and both are pretty easy to install.

If you don't want to download the 3 discs for Mandrake and the 5 discs (3 required for a full install) for Redhat, send me email and I'll drop them in the mail to you for $3.00 US (cost of media and shipping).

Isn't the GPL and open source wonderful? That definitely wouldn't be legal with Windows :)

Orionware

BearBear

9th December 2002, 05:22

Try Lindows , looks like windows, one cd if you order it, can also buy online lots of software avalible for it on Lindows site
doesn't have all the server stuff that other distros have easy setup , 7 mins or less to load it on your harddrive

go to http://www.lindows.com

blixi

9th December 2002, 10:13

Humm...

This is not a flame ! But if you use Lindows you have the "worst case"-Linux. You don't have Servers on other Distris if you don't want so. Lets stop this Thread. The forum is here for discussing Linux-video-stuff and these discussion is highly OT

Greets

Steffen

vvx

10th December 2002, 01:31

Lindows is a decent distribution, not sure what you have against it blixi. Have you ever used it? It basically aims to feel like a Windows desktop (it uses KDE, though obviously modified from the default look.) and that's it's main selling point. Lycoris is a similar distribution. Of course, I don't believe either of those has an ISO for download. (They also fall under PRM based distributions I believe, see comments on those below.)

Debian is good, but has it's faults. If you run the stable line you run ancient software. If you run unstable it works most of the time but every now and again you'll find a package with obsolete depends or packaged in a way that makes you wonder what the package maintainer was smoking when they put it togethor. If you don't install from a debian package you can forget about apt working (much like rpm on Redhat.)

RPM based distributions are unpopular for the reason of RPM. Though, RPM updating schemes are improving, so this will be less of an issue as time goes on. At the current moment downloading uncommon software (such as a lot of the obscure divx stuff we want) will not be available in rpms (and quite possibly not in debs either.) You can install from source, but then nothing you install from rpm will be aware that what you have installed from source is installed and you'll end up with unmet dependencies. (Same with any other package maintaining system, but with Debian and apt people install from source less frequently.)

Gentoo is the "popular" distribution at the moment. You'll find those users who don't want to be associated with any newbie distribution like gentoo. It's an elitist distribution for those people, and they use it for that one reason. Others appreciate it for valid reasons, so don't automatically assume a gentoo user is an elitist.

Well, that's my $0.02, hopefully I'm not accused of flaming anyone, think I gave an honest description of the major distributions and their flaws. (My Linux experience goes back to 99, I've used Debian the most with a little Mandrake, Redhat, SuSE, Slackware, and LFS. Currently on a SuSE 8.1 box.)

blixi

10th December 2002, 02:23

My main point against Lindows is:
- it is using wine, didn't make their developments open , have a
closed beta-stage.
-wine is bad since some programs are not ported since the
are running on wine (strongly IMHO , but see IBM and Lotus
notes for a real life example.
-the above mentioned is not Free software like, they get
a lot from the wine project and didn't gave sth back
- the first release of it was default a "only-root-linux". This is
highly unsecure and did not make any sense to me. In contribution
with wine a virus infection isn't impossible.

And yes I had it seen running on machines of friends, and it does not work so well as it states. It had lived one day - one week on their machines.

Since we are now sharing experiences ;) :

I tried debian. It was a pain in installing and apt-get is mostly usefull if you have broadband access to the internet. If you have a modem line you have to live with the old system. Since Mandrake has a apt-get-like toolset there is no Pro-debian for that, since nobody could explain me in what .deb's are supperior to rpm. Gentoo isn't an alternative, I want do something with my computer and not endlessly on it. And I dont want to know everything little on how my system works before I can use it. The next thing is that gentoo is again for broadband users.

I tried Suse a while ago and didn't like it(don't want comment on that, I think you know the arguments like I and since they are mostly not true anymore I wont repeat it here)(Suse 6.0, 6.1, 6.3)
I tried Redhat. This one was nice so far but I missed urpmi (the mandrake apt-get-alike). It was not the bleeding adge, but absolutly stable.
I am using Mandrake now since Mandrake 6.1 and I am happy with it. A lot of software is allready compiled out there and if you know what you are doing you can have the really bleeding edge (Cooker, the development branch of Mandrake)
Want transcode ? : urpmi transcode
Want xine ? : urpmi xine
want mjpegtools? : urpmi mjpegtools
Get a file not found error on compiling ? : urpmf file => urpmi package. Thats I love it for.

Just to say: All distris have their drawbacks and it is mostly a personal taste of what you will using, thats why it is linux , isn't it ? And NO flamewars isn't a thing I like. But discussing about it will give a better impression on what to use for linux-newbies then every distri-contest. I'm using linux since '98 and hope this forum will become a doom9-forum for linux-users (is meant that it will become a No.1 place for questions in video like the other doom9- forums)

:)

Greets

Steffen

BearBear

10th December 2002, 02:38

I don't feel flamed, beat over the head is more like it

As for giving something back blixi, you know not of what you speak.
Before you post something like that you should read up on whats been given back to the community.Just because you are unaware of contributions by Lindows does not mean they haven't happened, it just means you don't know as much as you think you do.

vvx

10th December 2002, 03:24

Just to say: All distris have their drawbacks

Yea, that was what I was trying to get at myself. ;)

To the best of my knowledge you are right on your assessment of Lindows. However, where my opinion differs is on free software and security being important to everyone. Take me for example, I proudly use Nvidia closed source drivers. I bought a Nvidia card just because of them. Not free as in open source, but they work pretty darn good. Different people have different priorities when it comes to how free they want their software to be, Lindows charges $99 or so just for a legal copy doesn't it? Obviously it's users won't be concerned with free.

As for security, well, a single user system is inherently insecure, until you compare it to something like Windows 98, Me, XP default installs, etc. How many XP users created a non admin user for day to day use? Now, I don't mean to say it's better to be insecure, or even acceptable, just that to really copy the Windows desktop idea you need that. Some people want to be able to download and install software without any special passwords.

So, I still say it has it's place.

Debian's install I agree sucks, as does Slackwares and probably every other non big company distribution. Fortuneatly, their non-big company status helps them when bad feedback comes their way. "They're not making money so don't complain!" would be a common sentiment. It's text based and you hit enter about a thousand times. Then if you choose expert package selection it'll drop you to dselect which is more than worthless (though I guess Ian likes it?)

Most people who claim that .deb's are inherently better than .rpm's aren't talking about .deb's at all, but rather apt. Apt is so built into the Debian system that when people think of Debian package management they think of apt. Apt is pretty cool, and when I first went to Debian there was _nothing_ like it for any other system. Times have changed. Basically why people like apt is the exact same reason you like urpmi. Programs like urpmi are also why the apt system loses it's power. If you can have a similar package maintainence tool on a system with a better install, or GUI tools, or whatever iti s that matters to you, you'll go with that system.

As for Debian and Gentoo being broadband centralized, I agree once again. Whenever you want to install something it'll go to the web to get it, and large updates from that direction do tend to favor high bandwidth users. I fail to see how urpmi doesn't fall into the same category though.

Now, I have to say.. This thread here is probably the most informative comparison of the linux distributions I have _ever_ seen. Possibly because it's in a corner of a forum with a small audience (To make it clear, I mean the corner of the forum, not the forum!) Doesn't seem to be anyone so intent on promoting their own distribution that nonsensical arguments have arisen. And we seem willing to admit the faults of our chosen distributions. ;)

blixi

10th December 2002, 03:34

Yes I think it was a clear that all this is a personal oppinion.
And no I clearly stated my linux experiences, so I never mentioned I had used it. And yes i saw it running on friends computers. I clearly stated why I dislike wine and wine is why lindows can run win-apps isn't it ?

What I mentioned is a widely spread meaning, so can you please post links, so we can discuss it instead of offense each other ? I never said I'm l33t or something like that. I just posted what I think. I'll be happy if I can learn sth.

If I was false on that there is no reason for bother me ( " it just means you don't know as much as you think you do." ) So please stop that please.

Thanks

Steffen

blixi

10th December 2002, 03:52

So I will stay with a comment from osnews.com:

"I think if you are a hard-core Linux user or a Window Maker/command line fanatic then accept LindowsOS as an alternative that simply isn't for you and pass it by. Thirdly, I think if you have ever said or thought bad things about LindowsOS but haven't used it, you should be receptive to change. Stop thinking like a Linux user and start thinking freely - not necessarily like Windows user, but like someone who might design something from scratch. See how close LindowsOS comes to your thoughts. Lastly, remember that nothing is more anti-Open Source spirit than judging software that you don't intend to use. "

( http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1803&page=4 )

It's just not for me :D :D :D

what you mentioned about security: this is only true if the machine isn't connected to the internet and you are the onlyone using it. Every little programm can have an exploit and somebody could gain root-access trough it. And it can be everyone who will get hacked. at least for installing backdoors/"DDoS-clients"
For me that is rudiculous bad and so I never ever would say somebody should use it ;) Nevermind, to let calm down : All I say is strictly my opinion !! everybody can make what he wants. And I don't dislike debian, it fascinating me for his overall open structure. I have a 8 CD Debian 3.0 Pack right beside me. And I definitly will give it a new try ( my last was 2.2.r6 or so )

BearBear

10th December 2002, 06:13

If you have been following Lindows development you will see that there are files supported but the wine structure has never really been in place.Why? I think they could never get it to work the way they want it to. however here is some additional information about Lindows and open source,
Question
Does LindowsOS comply with the Open Source agreements?

Answer
Absolutely! Lindows.com is a strong supporter of Open Source software and organizations such as Debian and KDE through financial and other means.

Some of the Software Programs included in LindowsOS are distributed under the GNU General Public License and other similar open source license agreements ("OSLAs") which, among other rights, permit You to copy, modify and redistribute certain Software Programs, or portions thereof, and have access to the source code of certain Software Programs, or portions thereof.

All users of LindowsOS have access to the source code of GPL programs in LindowsOS by visiting their my.lindows.com account using the account information they supplied when signing up. If you would like to sign-up, please click here. You may also find additional information at http://www.lindows.com/licensing.

Note: Section #1 of the GPL license available at: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html provides for a fee being required for the physical act of transferring a copy of the source code.

How many distros can you get pre-loaded on a computer for under $200
a new computer at that? and a Linux distro that the average person can use right out of the box? This is Linux comming of age without confusing language making it easier for the average computer user to switch away from microsofts crap

vvx

10th December 2002, 10:04

Originally posted by blixi
what you mentioned about security: this is only true if the machine isn't connected to the internet and you are the onlyone using it.

Well, I must admit I had a hard time telling if your posts were directed at me or BearBear. This one however, must be directed to me as BearBear didn't say anything about security. So, let's look at what I said about security.

As for security, well, a single user system is inherently insecure, until you compare it to something like Windows 98, Me, XP default installs, etc. How many XP users created a non admin user for day to day use? Now, I don't mean to say it's better to be insecure, or even acceptable, just that to really copy the Windows desktop idea you need that. Some people want to be able to download and install software without any special passwords.

So, are you trying to say a Linux machine in single user mode is less secure than a Windows 98 machine in a similar situation? I'm confused on that. Certainly the same basic flaws in the security model on one would also be on the other. Yes, on linux any file you run when running as root has the potential to wipe out your entire distribution, or perhaps just compromise your install and use you to attack otehrs. It is quite doable. But, the same is true on Windows, and even more likely as there is a greater number of virii written for that system -- hence I stick by my original claim that a Linux machine running as root is _not_ less secure than a Windows machine running as admin (like Windows 9x, or XP in default install.)

I have a feeling that's not what you were trying to argue. Perhaps you meant a linux machine running as root is much more insecure than a linux machine running as a regular user? That's certainly true, but I never said it wasn't.

Basically, the way I see Lindows, it's "theme" is that it's supposed to act similar to Windows. Well, if you're going to have it act similar to Windows, you can't have it demanding a password every time you want to admin it. After all, when was the last time you entered a password on Windows ME to change the screen resolution? Or, installing software? Using it that way is giving up security in exchange for convenience. I wouldn't run a system that way to be sure, but I don't spite those that do. I can only imagine there's someone even more paranoid than security than me who thinks it's absurd that I don't encrypt my email.

Hey, linux is diverse, more linux is good linux, and if Lindows can bring people away from MS (like BearBear), then I support Lindows.

Oh, and if you reread my bit on Debian, you'll note I both diss the install and acknowledge that apt isn't all that anymore. I think it wouldn't be nearly so popular if it were a big company like Red Hat, but being quite free and profitless it doesn't have the scrutiny. That said, it does the job just as well as any other distribution if you aren't bothered by a text install. I like _all_ distributions (and will acknowledge the weaknesses of them as well, regardless of whether or not they make money.)

blixi

10th December 2002, 13:30

Sorry for the comfusion. I guess it was a littlebit late last night ;D.And shame on me, it seems I get a littlebit like this geeks I ever hated about their ignorance.

vvx:
Ok your argument is good. A Linux running as root is far better than a badly written OS without any rights-managment and not proven against racing conditions and bufferoverflows. Servers will anyway not run as root, but this his hidden to the user. So Lindows is the "basicly Windows98-but far better"-Linux. The user can do anything, without think about it. So Linux could get more users and if someone become an average user he can easy change the distri if he want. This sounds good to me. Maybe I will have a look at it. Yes I meant is far worser than an average Linux would be , because of that. But every Linux is only so secure than the user who sits in front of it. A average Linux can be unsecure too if no updates will be installed. So it sounds like a reasonable solution.

Bear Bear:
I've read a littlebit and Lindows supports the wine meetings, and I guess all that is so closed because they are trying that a lot win-programms can run on it. So please apologize my ignorance. It was for sure not the money you have to pay for it. I have payed 139 Eur for providing support for Mandrake. And If I would using another distro I would pay something for it too, since thats the easiest for me to providing help to Linux, since I'm not a programmer.

Everybody can have everything run that he wants, thats why we want using Linux, FreeBSD or whatever Free OS you have in mind. Hopefully Linux will become a lot power, so that good programms will be ported to it (yes commercial programs I mean, like Tmpeg, since there isn't a good mpeg2-encoder for Linux right now).

Greets

Steffen

Nosferatu

22nd December 2002, 14:06

Slackware is evidently most pure distribution.
All unnessecary applications and daemons ware removed.
Real opposition to Mandrake
Single ISO Image is available to download from ftp.sunet.se

Infophreak

26th December 2002, 01:50

I try to use every new release of Redhat, Mandrake and Debian, so I feel that I can comfortably comment on them (but not on any other).

Debian: Currently the one I have installed on my other computer and this one as a dual-boot option. I have to say that apt is one of the nicest pieces of software I have ever come across, and it *does* blow urpmi out of the water. Not because urpmi is bad (I'd say that they do what they do equally well), but because I *know* because of the Debian way of doing things, I won't ever have to install anew. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade will keep my system up to date *always* except maybe for gcc ABI fixes (which is equal for all package managers across all distributions). With urpmi, I am dependant on the contiued support of a company or a community to provide me with packages specially built for the version of Mandrake or Redhat that I installed. So what if its install sucks? Once it is in, you never let it go. Caveat: You have to switch terminal during install and run pppoeconfig in order to get an ADSL connection working properly (otherwise, apt-get won't use packages from the web.) and don't expect international letters or mouse scroll to work right after install. http://www.tldp.org/ comes in handy here.

Mandrake 9.0: Wins the "Easiest to install" award for me. *Everything* works out of the box. Mouse scrollwheel, international keyboard, ADSL connection - it just works. It doesn't have the beautiful font rendering of Redhat 8, and it doesn't represent much of an advancement over their 8.2 distribution, but all the important stuff is there, although the menues are a bit illogical to begin with.

Redhat 8.0: Great install, *best* font rendering in any Linux distribution, and almost everything just works. ADSL can be a bitch to get working though - at least it was on this box. The *only* reason this isn't the distribution that I am currently using is the KDE/Gnome interface(s). First of all, Redhat made KDE and Gnome indistinguishable with 8.0 - something that I personally abhor. KDE and Gnome are fundamentally different and should thus *not* look alike. It might be nice for the businesses who want to use it, but for people like me, it is just an annoyance. Second: It was too repackaged. No nice Mozilla icon (just a generic globus with a mouse over it. *Bleh*), Gnome foot/KDE logo replaced by a red hat (an ugly red hat even - *yuck!*). It may seem as small annoyances, but when I found out that they have made it quite hard to get rid of that hat (I didn't bother checking what I should do instead of the obvious thing to try (I was still p***ed off about my ADSL connection not working): right-click and select "options (which of course wasn't there)), and that there is no lizzard-like icon Mozilla, I asked myself if I wanted to be use a system that I *knew* would continue to be a sore to my eyes and make me want to take a swing at the company that made it every single day. Presenting me with a number of (individually small) annoyances imidiately after the first boot-up is *not* a way to make me a user of your product. Not that I mind trying out new things, but I had higher expectations of Redhat, and they didn't deliver.

Edit: d'oh - typed 8.1 instead of 8.0

trongy

8th January 2003, 06:20

If you don't wan't to download all the Redhat cdrom iso images you don't have to. Just get the first one which will get you up and running with a base system. Then go to freshrpms.net and get apt-get for Redhat. Install it and point it to a local software repositry and download only the programs that you want.

Apt-get is of course ported from debian linux and you could do the same thing with debian as previously mentioned in this thread.

When using Redhat I prefer apt-get to Redhat's up2date program for several reasons. Redhat requires you to register and you can't choose a mirror the free service allows only one machine and you don't get priority.

You can also install Mandrake from only the first disk and use its urpmi tool which is like apt-get.
The Penguin Liberation Front plf.zarb.org has a urpmi repository of pre-compiled mandrake rpms for all the stuff that isn't on the official Mandrake cds from patent reasons. (freshrpms has a simmilar repositry for redhat).

Chris

Navellint

10th January 2003, 22:42

Hi

Trongy: a few weeks ago i was trying to install RedHat80 with only the first cd and I was wasting A LOT of time figuring out which package not to choose in order not to be prompted to insert disc 2. The installer should have a simple indicator to point out when you start needing disc 2 when selecting packages, or did I miss it (I'm a linux novice you know)? Anyway I finally completed the other 2 downloads and installed it.

I posted a request at RedHat for an ISO to burn on a dvdr. Maybe if you're interested some of you could request too, or show me a way to merge all 5 iso's (or at least 3).

trongy

14th January 2003, 03:31

Originally posted by Navellint

Trongy: a few weeks ago i was trying to install RedHat80 with only the first cd and I was wasting A LOT of time figuring out which package not to choose in order not to be prompted to insert disc 2.

I just had a look and I couldn't see anything obvious. Mandrake does have this option. You tell it the disks which you have and it only shows you the packages that are available on those disks.

With Redhat, I suppose that you could do a minimal install and then add the packages you want later. Much messier.

I posted a request at RedHat for an ISO to burn on a dvdr. Maybe if you're interested some of you could request too, or show me a way to merge all 5 iso's (or at least 3).

Redhat supply a dvd with their professional version.
I think you make your own by combining the contents of the discs and using boot.img from the images directory as your el-torrito boot image. See the README file that comes with Redhat 8.0.

Chris

bill_baroud

14th January 2003, 18:32

With Redhat, I suppose that you could do a minimal install and then add the packages you want later. Much messier.

i supposed that too, but after 5 or 6 install-try , i haven't achieve to get rid of this f***g 2nd cd ask ... looks like it's not as smart as Mandrake.

well, i have installed a debian instead :)

TactX

14th January 2003, 19:21

Originally posted by bill_baroud well, i have installed a debian instead :) [/B]

That's what I want to hear :D

callmeace

4th February 2004, 20:39

Very interesting.
I am once more going to give Linux a try now that the 2.6.x kernel has had a few fixes 2.6.2 having been released earlier today. I had been thinking of Gentoo which on their website claims it's both fast as well as being able to optimise it for your needs. Plus it looks like you can update whatever you need easily. I have Broadband which I understand I would likely need for this.

I had been previously considering Mandrake because I am new to actually using Linux - though I have read a lot about it & followed it's progress - it was recommended as being easy to get into. My main concern though was Mandrake is supposed to be relatively bloated, and I will require high performance for capturing.

On that subject is their a lossless capture available for Linux? (like Huffyuv for windows)

The hardware that I hope to run a Linux distribution on is:

2 x p111 700mhz Xeons each with 2mb cache
2gb pc100 sdram
180gb udma100 harddrive

I have previously tried setting up win2k but just didn't like that it seemed not to be very responsive as much as I'd expect from the hardware. Basically I have been advised that Linux is much more advanced thatn windows and I should see speed benefits from a little more work from me setting it up.
Anyway, Linux advice or comments needed please, thanks!

blixi

5th February 2004, 08:37

Do yourself a favour and try mandrake first. It is not really bloated I think. At least I'm using it and I'm happy. There is too a Multimedia-kernel in Contribs for Mandrake (kernel-mm), that you could try if necessary.

What belongs to the codec to use: the ffmpeg project developes several really fast codecs that are for instance available in mplayer/mencoder. possible are for instance huffyuv,mpeg1,mpeg2 and several other. mpeg1 should fit your needs on your machine, maybe even mpeg2 both of course with enough bitrate. Transcoding with mpeg2 from ffmpeg gives on my machine (single duron 1,1) something at 35 fps i think. I don't know, but maybe on your setup transcodes capturing is more effective (since it runs threaded AFAIK in opposite to mplayer/mencoder) For conversion to mpeg2 later i would suggest you mjpegtool's mpeg2enc as it has really good quality.

Steffen

frodoontop

5th February 2004, 09:41

My favourite remains Gentoo linux and I almost tried them all! But with Gentoo linux you got perfect documentation on almost every subject. And use the 2.6.1-mm5-sources kernel, for I found it the fastest till now.

Installing programs on Gentoo is the most simple one can imagine. Just type in a console emerge (programname) and it downloads and compiles it automatically.

If you don't have time to compile anything from source, than you probably don't like it. But otherwise: give it a go!

mikeX

5th February 2004, 14:26

I don't think a newbie distro (like Mandrake or SuSE) would fit your needs

I would normally recommend Debian but the status on Sarge, Debian's upcoming release, is questionable at the momment. I've had succesfull net-installations but I'm having problems with CD installations :(
I wouldn't recommend Debian's stable release (Woody) either since it's outdated and aims mostly at stability and security, so nothing cutting edge there.

I've also tried Gentoo, and I HIGHLY recommend it in your case (broadband connection)
Even though my experience with GNU & Linux is limited and I only started really getting in to it ~5 months ago I managed to do a Stage1 installation, that is compile the whole system from scratch! Many argue that you can have a significantly faster system this way, especially if you sellect the apropriate optimization flags for the compiler. But what I like the most about Gentoo is the simplicity and ease with which you can install packages!

But I think I should clear some things up first:
- Gentoo does not have an installer!
+ However it has a detailed description of all the necessary steps you need to take to install it (I learned many useful things from that)!

+ It is rumoured to be one of the fastest distributions out there(it feels fast to me but I haven't made any benchmarks)!
- I think that in order to see any real speed difference you'll have to make either a Stage1** or Stage2** installation, stage3 and GRP aren't really worth the effort I think, I would stick with Debian for a precompiled installation

+ It has a very simple package-installer, you just type a command and the name of the program you want and it fetches it, compiles it and installs it 'in no time'
- 'in no time' can actually be quite a while, especially if that package has many dependencies which have to be compiled and installed first, and compiling does take a lot of time for some packages, so tough break if you are in a hurry. Furthermore it's very easy to install the packages only if you already know what you want!

**Stages: 1-3, 1 --> compile the whole system, 2 --> install a very basic system and compile the rest, 3 --> install an average size system and compile all the extra packages you install, GRP--> install a stage3 system from cd

Offcourse both distros, Debian or Gentoo, will need some more time to get used to, but I think that most of the 'extra' things I had to learn/read were not distro-specific after all, what really happens is that you get to see a GNU/Linux system more from the inside (bottom line: that's the real fun in Linux + it's knowledge that 'stays' and can be used with other distros etc...)

Neo Neko

7th February 2004, 06:17

I run many linux systems for my use. And one thing I can say is that there is good and bad about all of them.

The distros I have tried include:
Redhat 3-9+Fedora Core1
Slackware 0.7-9
SuSE 4-9
Mandrake 6-9.2
Lunar-Linux 1.xx
Gentoo the early 1.0 versions
Knoppix
Movix
Geexbox
ASP Linux
Lindows
Lycoris
Xandros
and one or two odd ones I can't remember.

If you are just moving over from Windows and are not very technically inclined or just want to install a system that just works and quite well I can't say enough about Mandrake. The system is rather optimised being compiled for 586 or better systems as opposed to redhats 386 or better. Most everyone runs a 586 or better nowadays. All hardware is detected and setup automatically. The only time I have ever had problems was with a PCMCIA Linksys WPC-11 wireless card. Though I can't currently get any version of linux that will install on the system to see and use it. Nor have I had luck compiling additional code to get it functional. Other than that it recognises absolutely everything. The only other installs that come close to this are Lycoris, Xandros, Lindows, and SuSE. But all of them have rather large shortcomings. Most of them have a very small prepackaged software base to install from. SuSE being the obvious exception with over 8CDs in the professional package. My real gripe with SuSE at least of late is that it is practically impossible to compile software for it competently. Installing the recent 8.0 versions and getting the entire 2.4 or 2.6 kernel sources from kernel.org inevitably ended up in failed compiles. And there were always a few software I need to compile under SuSE. So it was utterly frustrating. The one gripe I have about Mandrake is that their packages get installed to some decidedly unique locations. Compiling the MKUltra window decorations recently for Mandrake 9.2 was at first frustrating. I had the correct version of KDE and all the dependancies. But instead of KDE being installed in the standard "KDE" directory because it is KDE version 3 it is installed in "KDE3". Likewise Samba version 3 is installed in samba3. and all the binaries are suffixed with 3. It is mildly annoying but very predictable. A simple symlink for KDE and updating the webmin samba module to end all binary names with 3 quickly has everything in order. At least so far. Everything compiles nice and with the Penguin Liberation Front I have found little need to compile much anyway. The system is quick and responsive. Quick note though. This is my desktop system. My server systems are generally Debian.

A word on Gentoo. I really like the portage system. Probably because I really like the original BSD ports system. But BSD unlike Gentoo is not built from scratch on your system. And that is important to note. Gentoo compiles everything from scratch. Sure it is optimised. But it is also relatively unpatched. And it is the users job to keep the end system patched with Gentoo. Otherwise security risks can abound. If patching and compiling is your thing then have at it. But it is more than the average joe wants to do. Lunar-Linux is close to Gentoo in philosiphy. But it comes with a decent text mode installer. And keeps track of patches etc to a reasonable extent while compiling sources.

My dream distro would be the bastard child of Mandrake and Gentoo/BSD. The ease of install and use of Mandrake. The ease of software compile and customization of Gentoo/BSD.