Samples

[dar1us]

How is this for an idea, because we are always going on about what is the best hard-ware for capping... Who's who and what's what. Can some of us post sample frames (single ones, poor me and my ISDN cant handle much more) of a capture in JPEG format so we can have a look and really get good idea on what people are capturing like.

You hear stories and reviews but RARELY ever see samples. The only time you see samples is when someone has a problem like: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39412
lectric, i am not getting at you

I know we really need to see a wide range of scenes captured but if people just give an idea of what there quality is like with a frame or 2 or 3 and SPECIFIC details on where it came from; what card, what source type (tuned, analogue, digital...). It would certainly benefit all. We could have a kind of gallery. I know I am on the look out for a new card to replace my crusty old card because it is sooo blury.

See a motion sample:) - 2.43 megs big i think at www.btinternet.com/~weatherjack (its FTP listing). I am just wanna know whether mine is quite good or not great, i seen quite a few captured files in my time and many of them really suck. But some are really good, but the only details you get are, 'Captured in VDub with and AVI codec'.

Yay


dar1us

or am i 2 much of a n00b to be making such a bold statement/idea?

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

this is quite good idea and i thought of it myself
(only wasn't prepared to do it on myself->i more or less
hate html etc.,but i have FPexpress (from my win98
partition..LOL!)

i'm willing to give any support and even 2-3MB of my web space (5mb total).....we could fit few jpeg's here and there i guess!
jpeg is a good parameter for quality too!

i've posted some to "tested capture cards" thread..but i can do
even better than those qvc samples (ie. i have programmes with less
noise etc.)...sure you can use that for sample on your page...

it would be good idea to do some vhs caps too,etc.

also system of capturing should be agreed,not direct captures
but shots from .avi itself etc.


this would be the best test (the VISIBLE one!) but somehow i doubt people will get interested enough!anyhow
you have my full support for a start!


(btw. is the sample image of star trek yours?
that sucks!hehehe....i don't like philips capture solutions
i think i can do better from my analog satv.....star trek is always
on it seems ,so it shouldn't be problem to capture some of it!)

cheers

Ivo

[dar1us]

if we did something like that, if a lot of people were to respond, i am sure the doom9 crew wouldn't be 2 happy with all of the files on the server...

??

it doesn't have to be through this forum, though based from this forum

we can have a totally seperate area 2 upload to...

ideas people...??

[dar1us]

The samples so far...

CJV Presents... MSI TV@nywhere (CX23881)
Digital Cable Source (non DVB capture)

SVCD Sample 1 (2 megs) (http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/Sample_SVCD_2.0mb.mpg) SVCD Sample 2 (4.5 megs) (http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/Sample_SVCD_4.5mpg)
AVI Sample 1 (2 megs) (http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/sample.avi)


dar1us Presents... WinFast GeForce 4 Ti4200 [x] (Phillps 7108)
Digital Satellite (non DVB capture)

AVI Sample 1 (2.42 megs) (http://www.btinternet.com/~weatherjack/enterprise.s00e00.sample.dar1us_SHORT.avi)


please, please upload your samples and post them here.

someone with DVB card and access, desperatly requested


dar1us

[cjv]

MSI TV@nywhere

Card: MSI TV@nywhere
Chipset: Conexant CX23881 (10-bit)
Connectors: S-Video, composite, audio passthrough (crappy), 125 channel TV tuner
Cost: $50 USD
Source: NTSC Digital Cable (Canada)
Video connection: S-Video
Audio connection: Y-splitter direct to SBlive Value
Capture program: iuVCR
Capture video format: 720x480, HuffYUV
Resulting average capture bitrate: approx. 750mb/minute!!!
Audio format: 48000Hz PCM stereo
Card calibration: sharpness 2, the rest defaults
Sync issues: none (iuVCR master stream audio, short audio samples)

Sample
Size: 2.0mb
Interlaced: no, 23.976fps (IVTC via Decomb.dll)
Filtering: none
Resizer: Lanczos (480,480)
Encoder: CCE 2.66.1.07
Quality: Easy (on slider)
Bitrate: 2530 CBR
http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/sample_msi_2.0mb.mpg

Comments:
Great quality from this card...if you can get it to work right. Lots of people are unhappy with this card because it does not have all the features that are advertised, the drivers are relatively immature, and it does not work with Virtualdub for capping. On the other hand, the CX23881 provides unmatched quality IF you have a decent source without a lot of noise. With a noisy source, the card captures _every_ detail and will end up taking up over 1gig/minute Huffy. Developers have made this card work with the latest Dscaler alpha (no tuner sound as of 12-05-2002) and although support is lacking right now, many are hoping for a bright future.

cjv

[cjv]

ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 7500

Card: ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 7500
Chipset: Rage Theater 1
Connectors: S-Video, composite, audio passthrough (all on breakout box), 125 channel TV tuner
Cost: $150 USD
Source: NTSC Digital Cable (Canada)
Video connection: S-Video
Audio connection: Y-splitter direct to SBlive Value
Capture program: iuVCR
Capture video format: 720x480, HuffYUV
Resulting average capture bitrate: approx. 350mb/minute
Audio format: 48000Hz PCM stereo
Card calibration: all defaults (128)
Sync issues: none (iuVCR master stream audio, short audio samples)

Sample
Size: 2.0mb
Interlaced: no, 23.976fps (IVTC via Decomb.dll)
Filtering: none
Resizer: Lanczos (480,480)
Encoder: CCE 2.66.1.07
Quality: Easy (on slider)
Bitrate: 2530 CBR
http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/sample_ati_2.0mb.mpg

Comments:
ATI's Rage Theater capture chip appears on many ATI cards, from the Rage Pro 128 to the Radeon 8500DV. I bought this card and used it for a few months, but always noticed the captures were blurry. There is no sharpness control with the ATI cards. While this sample is decent, most are "flat" and 2-dimensional looking. The included Multimedia Center software is buggy, bloated, and generally disliked by the community, although it has gotten much better with the recent 7.6/7.7 releases. I would not advise anyone to buy anything ATI for quality capturing. For watching TV on the PC in a window, the occasional capture, and record-and-delete PVR functions, I suppose it would be fine.

cjv

[Narler]

Pinnacle PCTV Rave

Card: Pinnacle PCTV RAVE
Chipset: Conexant BT8x8 (8-bit)
Connectors: RF, RCA, S-Video
Cost: $100 AUD ($1AUD = approx $0.52 USD)
Source: Free-To-Air Analogue using Roof Top Aerial 50KM from Capital City. Using Pinnacle onboard Tuner. (PAL)
Video connection: RF using RG59 cable to wallsocket
Audio connection: RF (as above)
Capture program: AVI_IO
Capture video format: 384 x 288, HuffYUV
Audio format: 41000Hz 16bit STEREO PCM, encoded to 44khz 64kbit MP3 (Lame 3.92) Mono (tuner is only MONO)
Card calibration: using version 4.00 VFW drivers, Brightness 145, Contrast 140, Saturation 120, Hue N/A, Gamma N/A.
Sync issues: none. I do have problems capturing for long durations at 768 x 576, as my capture pc is only Pentium III 850mhz, but at 384 x 288, 8+ continuous hours the sync is perfect.

Sample
Size:384 x 288 2.2mb, 768 x 576 4.6mb
Duration: 14 seconds.
Interlaced: no, 25fps (PAL)
Filtering: Brightness Contrast filter in Virtual dub, Brightness up 10% and Contrast down 7% for Div-X Sample. No filters for MPEG samples (they appear slightly darker than the divx due to this, but you can adjust BCS for mpegs in Interview's WINDVD anyways)
Encoder: Virtual Dub using Divx version 5.0.0 Build 413, TMPGenc for Mpegs
Bitrate: Div-X 1-Pass Quality based 93%, Mpeg CBR (at specified bitrates)

Divx 384 x 288 QB93 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/divx5-384-qb93.avi) 2.2mb
Divx 768 x 576 QB93 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/divx5-768-qb93.avi) 4.6mb
MPEG1 384 x 288, 1,150kbit (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/mpeg-384-1150.mpg) 2.2mb
MPEG 1 384 x 288 2,520kbit (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/mpeg-384-2520.mpg) 4.6mb
MPEG 1 768 x 576, 1,150kbit (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/mpeg-768-1150.mpg) 2.2mb (looks terrible due to large frame size and low bitrate)
MPEG 1 768 x 576, 2,520 kbit (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/mpeg-768-2520.mpg) 4.6mb

For more samples at other MPEG bitrates inbetween the above, please go HERE (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards.htm). For some more indepth codec comparisons by me using this card please go HERE (http://home.iprimus.com.au/narler/codec.htm). For frame comparisons between the codec tests please go HERE (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/codec-frames.htm) Warning last page is about 3mb due to lots of frame images.

Comments:
For a BT8x8 card using Analogue source, I'm very happy with the quality and abilities of this card.

I'd like to point out that viewing 768 x 576 Div-X AVI files uses insane amounts of cpu power. for instance. on a Intel Celeron 1.2ghz cpu usage is 90 to 95% when viewing 768 x 576 Div-X. For some captures from Sysmon during playback of divx and mpeg. check out this PICTURE (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/posts/cpu-usage2.jpg) (size: 12kb).

Capture PC: MSI 6153VA motherboard, Pentium III 850mhz cpu, 128MB PC133 RAM. Matrox Millenium AGP Video card. Promise ATA100 controller card, Seagate hdd's. Operating System: Win98SE

Feedback is most welcome.

Cya
Narler.

[dar1us]

YAY:) people started replying to meh' thread:)

If anyone wants to add their sample, by all means do so (contact me if you need a little fast space).

If you could use the format kindly !invented! by CJV! Nice one:)

Apprecieated all (i must have spelled that wrong, and excuse me if i broke into german at anypoint, i just did my exam in it:(

Remember... a picture is worth a thousend words, and at 25 odd pictures a second, a ten second sample would have to be worth - 1000x25x10... 250000 words!

So send in your samples, maybe it would stop, 'whats the best hardware'


dar1us

[Zhnujm]

Hauppauge DVB-S Card
Source: Digital Satellite

DVB-Captures with no recompressing.
192kBit mpa Sound.

704x576 average 3MBit/s 16:9
Film 1 Screenshot (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film1.png)
Film 1 6.3MB (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film1-avg-3MBit.mpg)
Film 2 Screenshot (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film2.png)
Film 2 5.8MB (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film2-avg-3MBit.mpg)

720x576 average 4MBit/s 4:3
Film 3 Screenshot (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film3.png)
Film 3 6.6MB (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/film3-avg-4MBit.mpg)

720x576 average 4MBit/s interlaced 4:3
Film 4 Screenshot (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/interlace.png)
Film 4 2.8MB (ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org/interlaced-avg-4MBit.mpg)

the links do not work with internet explorer , try ftp://zhnujm.dyndns.org and browse the files
anybody know why they dont work with ie ?

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

{ @ Narler & cjv...i am impressed with the way you did it !
very nice,very precise! i'll go a bit further (as i always must.hehe)
and state OS too (remember,sync issues...seems like some people's machines don't like WDM ! mine included ! ) and drivers used }




[>and browse the files
anybody know why they dont work with ie ? ]

perhaps ie's ftp engine cannot go directly to
file but has to be in the directory first(?)



d>people started replying to meh' thread

yes,after a lil' push from here and there.......(hehe)
and you thought you're gettin' out easily?

so,who's idea was it then?(LOL!)

it doesn't matter who got the idea first,or who made a
first post on it,or who's making the web-look (hint ?
no,not me ! heh,the biggest obstacle for me to implement
idea ( some while ago ) was that html design was
needed.....although some forum members come into mind on
that...Swan for example...) for it,but what matters is
that we ALL get this thing started (as we obviously did)
and SEE WHAT CARD PRODUCES WHAT RESULTS !


i see canopus ADVC is mentioned A LOT lately here ,
it looks like some kind of dream for a lot of people
here....(no, not mine dream -> it's not worth the money )
DarkSoul's name popped up on that one ,
so DarkSoul go ahead and be our guest.......
[if you don't have space i'll be glad to host 2-3MB's of
video (or stills ) produced by that device for some
time,and i think dar1us is willing too....]


[and now for important part _ ]
another thing:
why have i proposed the jpeg as a format for stills?
well png's get really big as do bmp's.....so what choice
do we have?
to put 10png's and fill up the web space?
i think optimized jpeg is ok and at higher quality
setting
it can produce decent results....
i hear you say "but what about mosquito's"?
well if you capture to huff then you KNOW that no
mosquitos appear in the source and that any mosquitos
introduced are
the effect of poor jpeg job so you have to do it all over
again.......
[ i think we should use huff.avi as a source for jpeg
production, even if it's unacceptable for the capturer to
use it constantly because of frame drops etc.,still you
can grab some frames with huff and convert to jpeg ]

also,if we take a video and compress it to mpeg2 or
divx or,or....i think the relative compression,the
smoothing (by the video-codec) still speak in favour of
the jpeg concept....mpeg2 on 2500kbit/s on full-pal
resolution is not good enough from the tests i recently

done for some SVCD considerations etc.....
( even on 480x576 resolution SVCD bitrate is lousy image)
i very much doubt 3000 is good enough either....
[but if your work convinces me that i was wrong i'll
apologize! i have yet to dload all this stuff.. ]

i can perfectly well see the image quality of the
device if i see some optimized jpeg's in full res.....

how to do it?
well,use the raw format u usually do (wether it be
huff,mjpeg or DV -> as disscussed in some recent thread ,
bare in mind that huff is preffered as it's lossles! )
load video to VD and copy source frame to clipboard ,

just as cjv said..... ,paste that to any image viewing
util. and make .bmp,and after that use some kind of jpeg
optimizer (i use one in PSP) and convert your bmp to jpeg
and there you are...
images that are NOT 500kb-1MB (as .png) and still look
mighty fine......

off course,i'll lead the way and will produce some jpeg
samples today and you be the judge.....

[ update: something for your viewing pleasure-> go
***deleted web-link***
and grab that bt8x8 samples.. ]

all things considered you decide wether you prefer small
video samples of lo-bitrate or mid sized jpeg's(100kB
jpeg from 720x576 has mighty decent quality)....

i opt for latter as i think this gives us better
opportunitty to see what does SOURCE look like,and not
what has BECOME of source after mpeg2 or divx "saw"
it....[ let's see....mpeg2 on 3000kbit=cca 375kB/s and
let us divide that on 25 frames per second =15kB for each
frame in mpeg2 stream....and that's being optimistic
because temporal redundancy is exploited in mpeg2 too so
it's even less than that for majority of frames as mpeg2
is no mere mjpeg! i think optimized jpeg beats
that mpeg2 stream..... ]
you'll miss motion ? well for image quality
considerations that doesn't matter.......we CANNOT judge
the huff's motion even if we could transfer it over the

web as it
requires fast CPU's to play it back at 25FPS
(i know my cpu can't do it! )
so huff transfer is a bit of a silly idea to me....

and yes.....a hi-quality jpeg image is worth more than
25 lousy ones in second (to paraphrase dar1us...heh)
let's see what's on the telly now.....

also...do we need DVB cards people?
OFF-COURSE!
i think we are all interested in that way of capturing
too....as most of us analogue people obviously don't have
that...

cheers

Ivo

[edited_samples have been deleted and therefore web link too]

[dar1us]

I stand by my short HQ movie samples thingies because people can edit out noise easily per/frame, where as a motion sample can really show how a card works, shows ghosting/deinterlacing issues tackled... That kind of thing.

One JPEG cant really do a card full justice but they are still a good starting point if you dont have much bandwidth. I am gona re-upload all of the files to a fast server which I can easily pull about 240k/s off:). I can get 150k/s off my weatherjack stuff but more on the force9 one I got going. (www.force9.co.uk) . I also heard it is still fast if you are as far a field as western-US but I don't know about Narla and Australia. Good luck.


oh, and did you think i meant for people to link to bad samples? and how can a JPEG sample taken from a video be better quality than the original souce I hoped more people would share? :D

no worries anywho, let's not get into an argument about all this.


dar1us

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

d>I stand by my short HQ movie samples thingies because people can edit out noise easily per/frame, where as a motion sample can really show how a card works, shows ghosting/deinterlacing issues tackled...

_my intention was NOT to edit noise out,and you'll see it in my
images ( on some of them there's LOTS of noise..those are the most interesting ones in my view ! )

divx motion sample speaks more of codec ,but less of source !
denoising is another issue alltogether.....

also you can view video as a succesion of still frames... ( as in cinema for example )

we're currently focused on capture devices,not codecs and encoding....but you can open thread on that too i guess (so i can show you some more muscle!hehehe)



also i think i pushed my bt device to itts limits with huff capturing and bt8x8 tweaker.......
i must say that these images beat all samples i saw (DVB stuff,Narler & cjv's stuff ) as it gets closer to the source than divx,mpeg1 or mpeg2

again, you be the judge....
stuff will be shortly uploaded.......



( i've been on Narler's web.....this guy is really neat,i tell
ya' ! but he cranked that brightness too much on that divx...heheh
btw. it played ok on my cel600+ffdshow!miracle or what ??? )

[cjv]

@^^-+I4004+-^^:

Can't wait to see some of your samples, even if JPEG.

I agree that Narler's site is _quite_ impressive, there sure was a lot of work put into making all those samples. What impresses me most is that those samples were taken from a OTA rooftop antenna...WOW!!!! Compared to my OTA signal, or even analog cable signal, those samples look like they were from DVD. I would say that over 98% people here have cable, so possibly the OTA broadcast is just a legal formality . Does the rest of the world actually have decent television signals?

You mention tweaking your setup, and from reading your past posts, you obviously know what you're doing. Any advice on how to properly calibrate capture cards..levels, colour, hue, etc..? I desperately need to tune mine properly, I for one know my colour levels are not right, and I've read it makes a world of difference.
I've read about "preview with histogram" in VDub, and tweaking that way, but it's difficult because I cannot pause live TV. I've also seen some screenshots of these crazy circles and stuff, some sort of test patterns. How do you do it, and are there any uncompressed BMP or AVI test patterns you could post/send? Hopfully you can write a detailed post about it..I'm eagerly awaiting what you have to say.

About a separate site, I can help with the backend programming PHP, MySQL, Perl, etc.., but unfortunately I don't have a lot of spare time, but I do have some. Also, if anyone knows a 100% undetectable url-redirector/hop-to service, then I can probably host the site (and short movie clips) as well.
1) There must be NO way for the actual sitename to be determined (resolving IP address is OK because there is no other way)
2) it must be FREE!!
3) if it does not meet those criteria, I will get in major shit :)
Any ideas?

cjv

[Narler]

Hi -+I4004+-,

{ @ Narler & cjv...i am impressed with the way you did it !
very nice,very precise! i'll go a bit further (as i always must.hehe)
and state OS too (remember,sync issues...seems like some people's machines don't like WDM ! mine included ! ) and drivers used }
I just copied CJV's post format, so the credit goes to that person.

I did briefly mention driver and OS i use, but I'll recap now in a little more detail:

Drivers:Original Pinnacle version 4.00 VFW
(from Device Manager: BT848.VXD version 4.0.0.0 Pinnacle Systems 1999 : PCTVCAP.DRV version 3.0.0 miro Computer Products AG 1996)

OS: Windows 98SE version 4.10.2222

If there's any other info or specifications anyone requires, please ask. Check here first though (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/index.html).


also i think i pushed my bt device to itts limits with huff capturing and bt8x8 tweaker.......
i must say that these images beat all samples i saw (DVB stuff,Narler & cjv's stuff ) as it gets closer to the source than divx,mpeg1 or mpeg2

Sounds great, although the only thing I'd consider, is the format that these images are in, (and I know you mentioned earlier about codec discussions versus capture card quality), but everyone's final product has to be in a codec eventually? But I agree as there are so many variants with codecs it would be difficult to do a direct side by side comparison, which is why I made some divx and mpeg samples, just for those people who don't use/like divx.

But as a comparison, here's 3 frames from that same show ripped directly from the Huffyuv footage with Virtual dub (hotkey CTRL 1). then pasted into Adobe Photoshop version 4.0 and saved with JPEG quality factor of 9. No Filters, completely untouched:

Frame 01 - Huffyuv 768 x 576 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/frame-768-01.jpg) (221 kb)

Frame 02 - Huffyuv 768 x 576 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/frame-768-02.jpg) (187 kb)

Frame 03 - Huffyuv 768 x 576 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/frame-768-03.jpg) (173 kb)

*edit*

Frame live TV Viewing screen capture 768 x 576 (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/frame-tvviewing.jpg) (360 kb) (a bit bright, due to it being a commercial)

*end edit*

For more frame samples (all at 384 x 288) please check HERE (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/codec-frames.htm) Warning this page is 3 MB


( i've been on Narler's web.....this guy is really neat,i tell
ya' ! but he cranked that brightness too much on that divx...heheh
btw. it played ok on my cel600+ffdshow!miracle or what ??? )

Thanks for the feedback and the kind words. I'm glad the files played back fine on your system. Those CPU usage figures were taken while using Windows Media Player, so it's quite possible that other viewer programs are more efficient.

With respect to brightness, I've spent ages trying to find a setting that views the same on each pc, and in reality it's just not possible, with everyone having different BC settings for their capture cards, monitors and video cards, even the amount of ambient light in the room has an effect :), so now I only focus on what looks acceptable on my pc, even when viewed on one of my other pc's it looks different. The div-x looks slightly bright on my system, and the mpegs look slightly dark, but other samples i've downloaded from here, are extremely dark on my pc. (maybe its the timezone differences :) :))

Hi CJV,


I agree that Narler's site is _quite_ impressive, there sure was a lot of work put into making all those samples. What impresses me most is that those samples were taken from a OTA rooftop antenna...WOW!!!! Compared to my OTA signal, or even analog cable signal, those samples look like they were from DVD. I would say that over 98% people here have cable, so possibly the OTA broadcast is just a legal formality . Does the rest of the world actually have decent television signals?

Thanks once again for the kind words. I've got quite a few other tests I wish to perform in the next few weeks, which others may also find beneficial, so I'll keep you posted.

I've done some comparisons between my FTA reception quality, versus optus cable, and I find the optus cable very soft and grainy. Foxtel Satellite is slightly higher than the optus cable, and slightly better on some channels than my FTA. (this is within australia)


Any advice on how to properly calibrate capture cards..levels, colour, hue, etc..? I desperately need to tune mine properly, I for one know my colour levels are not right, and I've read it makes a world of difference.

The only way I've tried to do it is, is by viewing the same footage in real time on a TV. It's still no indication of the true source settings, but atleast it's another comparison.

However I'm not as much of a video purist as I was a few years ago. Now I just use the settings which I'm comfortable with watching. Also adjusting the Brightness and Contrast, can yield huge benefits to filesize (for divx encoding only). So if filesize is a concern, then slightly adjusting the contrast and brightness can yield a large benefit. Adjusting the BC on the file doesn't concern me as using the BCS adjustment during playback still yields adequate viewing:

Quick example. Movie duration: 103 minutes

526,868,480 Bytes... Brightness +00% Contrast -0%
489,254,912 Bytes... Brightness +10% Contrast -7%
456,910,848 Bytes... Brightness +10% Contrast -13%


If there are any additional tests that anyone would like done, I'd be more than happy to accommodate them. (if my equipment is capable)

cya
Narler

[dar1us]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

da da da daaaaaaa!

http://www.aa981752.force9.co.uk - well whatta da you know

all i gotta do is put some links to each card at the top of the page, actually link the samples to their locations and we are done. see directory listings of samples at http://www.aa981752.force9.co.uk/samples

I am yet to upload the last 3 PCRave files, means connecting to expensive internet access number, this one is free ATM.

Also, i am yet to here from Mr Lucky DVB-S with details but they are pretty obvious already and dont concern us lowly analoguers'.


dar1us

[cjv]

Dude, that site looks great...hopefully we can get LOTS of people to post. (Hmmm, not worried about hosting copyright material..guess you're not in North America?)

In case you want OS/Driver details to add to your site:
ATI
WDM drivers: 6.13.10.6168v1
OS: Win2k SP3

MSI
Conexant capture driver version: 2.3.75.0
OS: Win2k SP3

cjv

[dar1us]

thats the beauty of it, noone knows whos hosting it, and they are only 10 second samples anyways. who could care less. they arn't comming from MY pc.

btw, can someone reasonably fast download one of the big files, my sample 2 (winfast) is 8.5 megs, tell me what kinda speed you pull from it.. cheers


dar1us

[cjv]

sample 2 (winfast) is 8.5 megs
very decent speed...approx 80k

cjv
EDIT: Just watched it. Its very intersting, everybody's captures look drastically different. This is weird, as capture cards can't be THAT different, all they do are A/D conversions?
Your capture has a nice smooth look, its hard to describe. It's not blurry, but very pleasing to the eye...almost looks like PDTV. Did you filter it at all?

[Narler]

Hi -+I4004+-,

Just to help yield a better huff vs divx frame quality, here's a single frame removed from the divx 768 x 576 avi, and the same frame removed from the original huff 768 x 576 avi file:

Huff 768 x 576 frame (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/768-huff.jpg) (261kb)

Divx 5 768 x 576 frame (http://www.aussievideosearch.com/cards/pctv/768-divx5.jpg) (246kb)

It's quite evident that divx yields some substantial detail loss in fine areas.

Cya
Narler.

[Owen]

OS: XP Pro
Hardware: P4 3Gig, 512Meg PC3200DDR, ASUS P4PE board with Excellent intergrated ADI SoundMax Audio Chip.
Card: Magic TView with WDM Drivers from http://btwincap.sourceforge.net
Chipset: BT8x8
Connectors: S-Video
Source: PAL DVD and PAL Digital Satelite (Australia)
Video connections: S-Video
Capture program: FlyDS
Capture video format: 768x576, HuffYUV (Normally I capture 720x576, Xvid or DIVX at fixed Quant 2)
Card calibration: Sharpness 70, Contrast 101, Brightness 950, Colour 115
Sync issues: none (FlyDS, master stream Audio, audio interlieve Capture) Have captured over 6 hours with perfect sync.

Sample Images: 50-250kb each (No filters used, just cropped and lightly compressed)

http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/FF1%20DVD%20BTCapture.jpg DVD Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/FF1%20DVD%20Rip.jpg DVD Rip
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/FF2%20DVD%20BTCapture.jpg DVD Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/FF2%20DVD%20Rip.jpg DVD Rip
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Gwen1%20DVD%20BTCapture.jpg DVD Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Gwen1%20DVD%20Rip.jpg DVD Rip
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Gwen2%20DVD%20BTCapture.jpg DVD Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Gwen2%20DVD%20Rip.jpg DVD Rip
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Digital%20Sat1%20BTCapture.jpg Satelite Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Digital%20Sat2%20BTCapture.jpg Satelite Capture
http://users.bigpond.com/omd1/Digital%20Sat4%20BTCapture.jpg Satelite Capture

Comments:
I thought it would be a good idea to use DVD for comparisons and use frame captures ripped from original DVD using Sonic Cineplayer 1.5
compared with the same frame captured with TV capture card useing a DVD player for input. (In this case I used my Compaq P4 notebook
with ATI Radion 7500 TV output (S-video) with Sonic Cineplayer 1.5 as a player.
I also captured some frames from my Digital Satelite reciever useing S-video cable.
It looks to me, like the old BT8x8 can do a very good job. But I still want better. CX23881 next I think.
I highly recomend the ASUS P4PE Main Board with the ADI SoundMax chip. This chip dose not sit on the PCI bus and uses the system clock as referance.It gives perfect audio sync and great sound quality.

Comments on noise:
To all thoughs people with video noise problems with there S-video or composit inputs on BT8x8 cards.
The PC is the cause not just the card. All my PC's under 2Gig P4 (and I've had many) had noise problems with my capture card.
When I upgraded to P4 2Gig with SIS chip main board and now 3Gig with Intel chipset board all my noise problems have gone.
Memmory and CPU clock speed has a big effect on TV card noise pickup. So run out and get a 2Gig+ P4 system and never look back.
The speed is usefull for realtime DIVX or Xvid capture as well.
The small amount of noise in the DVD samples is due to the TV output on my Notebook (I hope ATI TV out is better on desktop PC's because the TV output on my main PC (Geforce 3 Ti500 with CX25872 TV out chip and TVTool is MUCH better.)

Regards,
Owen.


:D

[dar1us]

@CJV

There wasn't any filtering done on thae sample AT ALL except a resize from 720x576 (cuting out wide-borders because I got a 4:3 tv and didn't set my Digital Satellite box to anamorphic) and that was about it, I am about to capture the next episode, starts in about a half an' hour. Wish me luck, then to capture the last two episodes of band of brothers (i capture them at 352x288 because it is the same method as all previous episodes i capped so far).


dar1us

edit: well, whattada' you know, i just broke in to page 2 of my thread:)

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

cjv>Can't wait to see some of your samples, even if JPEG.

_why "even"...?(heheh)
i think even(hehe) unoptimized jpeg can beat mpeg1,2 or divx stream2s image quality....
images are enough for card comparisions as we're not comparing codec's motion estimation techniques or so....
( some people sent .png images that were 640x480
and 500kB(!)....i dloaded that then , but never more ! 1 image 500kB? that's LOL ! )
also sample video of dar1us doen't really speak of
card quality with dark , fast moving scenes ( that star trek short sample )....
i would prefer few jpeg images from huff source...
MANY cards overblur image..and then if you smooth it some more with divx or mpeg2...well, see what i mean?

cjv>What impresses me most is that those samples were taken from a OTA rooftop antenna...WOW!!!!

_no big skyscrapers in australia countryside(?)
cities have cable for that obvious reason(s)!
i myself have decent "rooftop" signal,but analog satv is better (as you could see in samples...btw.
link is in one of my previous posts in this thread , 2nd one i think...)
majority of my stuff is also OTA tv rips,but the signal is not that clear.i have some ghosting and
interference...(i really should move my house!hehe)
i think some of those images ( i posted ) could pass as photographs (hm, digital ones..hehe)


cjv>Any advice on how to properly calibrate capture cards..levels, colour, hue, etc..? I desperately need to tune mine properly, I for one know my colour levels are not right, and I've read it makes a world of difference.

_i usually use...(heh wait for it!):MY EYES!
(hehe)
it's easy to spot overdone B or C,saturation likewise!
as is stated in VD help file on capturing issues
(audio/video levels) it's better to go a bit lower on the B & C then to overdoit!
but even going too low results in destroyed file->that file (too) can't be recovered by mere brightness/contrast controls in postprocess
so,use your eyes,know your monitor ! ( by now you should!heh )
it's not that hard.......
i don't believe too much to the "histogram" function,it's too unprecise ( "the frame with same amount of bright and dark areas is used to do calibration"....what a hell that means ?
where do frames of that kind grow ? heheh )

anyhow.....u know how to set up tv for proper
viewing ? use that knowledge ( black should be unvisible black and white should be...well..visible... )
no big philosophy involved!
you could use the test patterns,true ( simillar as i have in my lil "icon" ), but i guess with 24h on tv
you don't get any of these....and any source has different (ie. every channel) B & C setting....
so just use what you feel is right...and sure it's true that overbright source produces bigger sizes divx....that should be true for mpeg2 too if it doesn't have some internal level control... ( i'm not mpeg2 guy really....)

cjv>. Also, if anyone knows a 100% undetectable url-redirector/hop-to service, then I can probably host the site (and short movie clips) as well.


_i think you're mistaking there: when has canada become fascist state(?)
these short clips/images can't be considered violation of copyright !
they are used for testing purposes ,and no one will really benefit from few seconds of "buffy" or eurosport or,or.....
i don't regard this as copyright violation (and what's more it can help to marketing departments of that programmes ! if i see interesting short clip i might decide to buy that video.......see... those guys should LOVE THIS FREE COMMERCIALS we're giving away ! hehe )
and if it's ok in UK,then....( you catch my drift ?.. )


Narler>I just copied CJV's post format, so the credit goes to that person.

_but i liked the most "rooftop" part...hehehe
i thought i was the only one that still uses
that fine piece of 19th century technology...

N>.....but everyone's final product has to be in a codec eventually?

_true,but as i said ( you also saw it for yourself on huff vs divx5 jpeg comparision , and cjv noted on the HUGE differences and noted that cards can't be THAT different.. i'm yet to dload your .jpeg stuff ) we're currently testing cards' performance , not
encoding process itself...... (that would deserve
20MB web on it's own.....for text articles only...hehehe)....
i really feel huff->highly optimized jpeg is a way to go....
[ yes, there's cca. 5% loss as a result of jpeg compression ( when you blow it 300% in jpeg optimizer window it's visible ) , but that's MUCH lower than mpeg2 or divx loss !
i think we can agree there...]
therefore->new thread or new web place for that stuff.....
( and i would be glad to post some clips there just to show how much only resizing destroys the image and sharpness ! )
if we all capture to huff and make jpeg's in particluar way....we get damn simillar "transfer" conditions for everyone....
also i could post some Erazor3 lores images that are so sharp that your head would spin,and you could hardly beat that with anything ( philips,bt,ati...you name it , and i really don't know if ADVC capturing resized to 352x288 would look better...i'm willing to contribute if anyone has ADVC and wants to do that comparision with Erazor3 ... he can use any software resizer he chooses ! )...
( Erazor3 card has hardware resize that no resize filter can touch....OR is it just that for higher res it upsamples ? hehehe )


N>With respect to brightness, I've spent ages...

_their foreheads really shine,don't they?
and i keep my monitor fairly low on B&C....
but i rather fancy the sequence "for the record..." (hehe)
and also for the record (hehe) how many terrestrial tv channels do you have over there ?
are all as clean as network7


N>Foxtel Satellite is slightly higher than the optus cable, and slightly better on some channels than my FTA.

_the more i see stuff from DVB and mpeg2,the more i like my "rooftop device" (hehe)
it has noise and ghosts,sure..but it's razor sharp image too !

N>If there are any additional tests that anyone would like done

_i see you do divx5...i had real poor performance from divx4.12 and xvid on moto-races
( huh,although season is over now...)...and that were some of the reasons i stayed on divx3....
4 & xvid got really sideways with motion prediction&compensation....
i've noticed some unusual ghosting IN-FRONT of the fast moving bike(!)
divx3 does this without a glitch.....
( target bitrate for all was cca. 1800kbit/s )
( all divx4.12 , xvid & divx320 were done in 1 pass but i DOUBT moto races would benefit from 2 pass encoding as there's constant hi-motion all the time....some of my 2-pass tests with dynamic music videos prove that to be correct )
so if you see some moto racing , remember me...
( if they run on asphalt it's easy to spot unusual ghosting/codec flaws ! )

cheers

Ivo

[ ps.dar1us,wouldn't it be good to upload the stuff some of us did for .jpeg testing?
like Narler's huff vs. divx5 stuff and Owens dvd & digisatv stuff as well as my "bt-reference" series ? i think they belong there too...( it's easy to put jpeg series to one zip archive etc. ).but it's your project after all so do as you please....
how much space do you have on force9?
also , i would like to appeal on users of Conexant CX23881
( cjv or /AX
perhaps ? ) to make some huff->jpeg images ( with
sharpness seting to max.), as short clip samples i saw
( avi & mpeg2 from cjv ) didn't convince me
that 23881 is miles away from bt8x8.....till now i only have images some japanese guy did on direct test between cx and philips chip ]

[cjv]

cjv>. Also, if anyone knows a 100% undetectable url-redirector/hop-to service, then I can probably host the site (and short movie clips) as well.
_i think you're mistaking there: when has canada become fascist state(?)
these short clips/images can't be considered violation of copyright !
Ha. It wasn't that I was worried about. I was referring to getting in trouble (fired :))from my work for using their bandwidth for personal purposes.
cjv

[dar1us]

@cjv

do people really mind that much over there about copywrite and all that. there isn't really that much fuss, an ISP or whatever would ASK you to remove it but the police dont really care, they all god copied movies and stuff. One of my friends dads is a coppa' and they share around DivX downloaded on his 2mbit round the copper station (police station), no worries:)

but if it is a concern, but still, if people want files up to 50 megs shared, just e-mail/pm me...


dar1us

[Narler]

^^-+I4004+-^^
_no big skyscrapers in australia countryside(?)
Not where I live, no. There's not even a 2 story house :). Just BIG tree's.

^^-+I4004+-^^
_but i liked the most "rooftop" part...hehehe
i thought i was the only one that still uses
that fine piece of 19th century technology...
hehehe, true, most of the people I know have made the switch to cable or satellite, (those also re-broadcast the FTA channels).

^^-+I4004+-^^
i really feel huff->highly optimized jpeg is a way to go....
i think we can agree there...
Definitely. Or if the cards support it(most have a snapshot feature), just direct screen captures of TV Viewing.

^^-+I4004+-^^
_their foreheads really shine,don't they?
and i keep my monitor fairly low on B&C....
but i rather fancy the sequence "for the record..." (hehe)
and also for the record (hehe) how many terrestrial tv channels do you have over there ?
are all as clean as network7
I receive 6 free to air channels. If I move 100KM's south, I would pickup an additional 3.

Out of my 6, 4 are all pretty equal to network7, 1 contains static (but this broadcast from another state), and the last is an utter shocker, massive static and ghosting. But the last one is a non-profit community station, so they don't have anything worth watching anyway :) (the last 2 listed, are not 24/7 broadcasters either)

As of 2001, all broadcasters here had to start switching to digital, so all analog broadcasts will cease in the next few years. For some stupid lame arse reason, the Australian Government is forcing all broadcasters to use HDTV standard. ARGHH. Which means huge expense to buy a HDTV set, or at the very least a HDTV decoder. When our Analog broadcasts are already pretty good, it's a shame. Because this country is so vast, it's going to be harder for the broadcasters to get digital signal/network coverage anywhere near that of the existing analog one.

N>If there are any additional tests that anyone would like done
^^-+I4004+-^^
_i see you do divx5...i had real poor performance from divx4.12 and xvid on moto-races
( huh,although season is over now...)...and that were some of the reasons i stayed on divx3....
4 & xvid got really sideways with motion prediction&compensation....
I didn't like divx4 much either, massive filesizes created with the Quality Based encoding, and on slowest mode (to maximize the quality) it takes way to long. Divx 5.0.0 I've found to be better than Divx 5.0.2, for speed and compression but still retaining quality. I did some codec tests, compared divx4 to 5, 5.02 and pro. I posted the links on my first msg in this thread. The page is Here (http://home.iprimus.com.au/narler/codec.htm). The largest benefit I've seen by using divx instead of mpeg, is with fast motion footage, such as indycar racing, or even if there is a show that has snow falling. MPEG compression block artifacts look terrible. Even on those samples i posted in this thread. at 2520 kbps you can still see these artifacts in the flames. Divx may still have it's flaws, but for my viewing preferences I'd rather have something slighly smooth to look at, than chunky artifacts.

One reason to not use divx3 is it's not being supported in hardware. the new Sigma Designs XCard supports divx4+ decoding in hardware. (for anyone that's interested, Offical Page (http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/xcard.htm) )

cya
Narler

[cjv]

Why I don't cap from my analog cable :)

http://members.shaw.ca/cjv99/cable_jpeg_q80.jpg

cjv

[fasttimes]

For this test to have any validity, you would have to all being using the exact same source material!

I'd suggest a short video sample be put together, from DVD sourced material, and then be made available from someone that can send out the DVD-R to anyone that asks for it (and pays a couple of bucks.) This should also include some video tune-up patterns, for correctly setting the capture card adjustments.

There will still be plenty of variables, for example, DVD DAC quality, cabling, internal PC noise, ect, but at least things will be much more consistent, and some conclusions could be made. Right now, this is all useless speculation.

As it is now out-of-print, I would suggest using the video montage on the Video Essentials DVD. And, use a few of its test patterns, or a few from the AVIA disc.

[NeVeRLiFt]

Nice thread going here. Wish I had been informed of it sooner or kept my nose poking in this section of the forum more...

[cjv]

Originally posted by fasttimes
As it is now out-of-print, I would suggest using the video montage on the Video Essentials DVD. And, use a few of its test patterns, or a few from the AVIA disc.
This would be ideal. Do you have this DVD? I've really never seen it, is there any way you can upload any parts of it in any format...I guess the "video montage" you mention? How about even some BMP's of "test patterns" Anything would be great.

cjv

[fasttimes]

Originally posted by cjv
This would be ideal. Do you have this DVD? I've really never seen it, is there any way you can upload any parts of it in any format...I guess the "video montage" you mention? How about even some BMP's of "test patterns" Anything would be great.
Yes, I have the DVD. The montauge is a 6 minutes total IIRC. Give me a couple of days to investigate this. I'll also take a look at the correct test patterns that you guys will need, and what disc (AVIA or VE) would be best for those patterns.

But, uploading would not serve the purpose, as then each of you would have to make your own DVD-Rs, using different codecs, ect, and just introducing the mess all over again. Not to mention those of you that don't have DVD-R burners. It would seem better to have a couple of people that will duplicate the disc for all that want it.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>For this test to have any validity, you would have to all being using the exact same source material!


and exact same dvd-player to play test images with,right?
so perhaps we should all gather once and test that then?
(both ideas are hard to do........)

i don't agree on that:
noise or no noise (in source) one can still see how good the image
is: good capture card will capture the noise too with some sharpness

poor one won't.....
(not that noise is something one wishes...)

i have only said that doing it in mpeg or divx is lousy,as we're not judging cards then,but the codecs themselves.......

>. It would seem better to have a couple of people that will duplicate the disc for all that want it

i don't have dvd-player or dvd-rom at all,so just send me VHS tape...LOL!.....

anyhow:same source condition is NOT respected if you feed capture card with same DVD and not same dvd-player......

but by now quality of different devices is well known i think
(by users opinions etc.)

[obiwan71]

Hi!

Here are clips from some of my analog captures. The source is digital satellite (France) and the card used is DC10+ (S-Video input).
Clips are captured in MJPEG then reencoded into DivX. Usually the bitrate used for capturing is between 3000 and 4000 kb/s. As for the bitrate used for DivX encoding, well... it depends on the film captured itself.

Clip from the Sixth Sense (6,33 Mb):
http://sbouf.free.fr/Extrait_Sixieme_sens_DivX311_1700kbps.avi

Clip from the Phantom Menace (1,96 Mb):
http://sbouf.free.fr/extrait_phantom_menace_telecide.avi

Clips from 24 (opening sequence) (2,16 Mb - 5,80 Mb):
http://sbouf.free.fr/intro_24_384x288.avi (DivX bitrate: 500 kbps)
http://sbouf.free.fr/intro_24_640x480.avi (DivX bitrate: 1500 kbps)

And these are screenshots/still pictures (JPEG, directly from captured source material):

Kiefer Sutherland in 24: http://sbouf.free.fr/jack08.jpg
French actor Mathieu Kassovitz in Amelie: http://sbouf.free.fr/kassovitz.jpg
Bruce Willis in the Fifth Element: http://sbouf.free.fr/korben12.jpg
Bruce Willis in Unbreakable: http://sbouf.free.fr/david22.jpg
Julia Roberts in Erin Brockovich: http://sbouf.free.fr/erin14.jpg

And for ER fans:
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/carter01.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/corday03.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/doug07.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/greene03.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/hathaway01.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/mobalage07.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/romano02.jpg
http://sbouf.free.fr/Captures_Urgences/Episode_5-13_Le_Choix_de_Joi/weaver04.jpg

I am now using AviSynth and its filters, such as Decomb when it comes to deinterlacing, to encode my captures into DivX.

[dar1us]

Nice one:) Seems pretty nice, we (I) always like a good range,if only I could get bloody S-Video input on my MSI TV@nywhere, composite sucks and SKY Digital didn't think to commision a DigiBox (satellite reciever) to me with a S-Video out. Will whine until I get a new one, one with a hard-drive, all the fancies, so I can record and then capture later, or even capture 2 things at once. These have been around in the UK for about 2 years now, but still haven't got one.

I will download all those samples later, it is a shame - for you - that the french TV channels put logos on during the movies, all movie/terrest(aerial) channels dont.

[cjv]

Man, those are some awesome screenshots (didn't have time to download the AVI). Never seen anything like it before, you could almost mistake them for DVD!

cjv

[obiwan71]

Man, those are some awesome screenshots (didn't have time to download the AVI). Never seen anything like it before, you could almost mistake them for DVD!
Picture quality is not always that great, especially when dealing with darker scenes - but I think it is just because of the channel and the bitrate used for compression. So, I can't complain about the overall quality of my captures. :):D

[dar1us]

The Sutherland one and the Julia Roberts ones were the best. 6th sense was pretty good.

I am uploading some longer and full PAL D1 res motion samples. I will take some shots so the slower users can have a go, one of them is 15 meg big and probably the best yet.

How expensive are DC10+ or whatever it was?

[obiwan71]

I bought the card for 250 euros. It was almost two years ago but the price seems to be the same now. Of course, you can try and find a secondhand card to get a lower price.

[neo_sapien]

I am unbelievably impressed with the quality of the samples from that DC10+. So much so that I went to eBay and picked one up for $74.95 shipped as soon as I could find it :)

[dilly]

Well, since neo_sapien *bumped* the thread..

I own a Leadtek Winfast 2000XP card and I'm more than satisfied with it for an->dig captures. Although I read this thread once a while back I can't remember much from it and I'm not reading it again, so I hope I remember the guidelines :)

The samples I'm posting (stills) have no filters applied, pre or post, and are straight screen captures from the VirtualDub window and all cropping was done in Paint Shop Pro.

Captured in 640x480 (NTSC) with HuffyUV. Even interlacing has been preserved, for the purpose of this thread - "no filters" makes sense for showing off the quality of the card. Source is digital cable, via an S-Video input. I will update this post with some different sources eventually as all my captures (up to now) have been destructively deinterlaced. I picked frames that don't have the combing effect from interlacing, but maybe I should post some of those for educational purposes.

If anyone (dar1us!) can hook up storage space, I will post some video clips, since I'm limited to 5MB webspace.

Source #1 - Movie (from a digital channel, good src quality)

Sample 1 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source1-sample1.jpg)
Sample 2 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source1-sample2.jpg)
Sample 3 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source1-sample3.jpg)

Source #2 - News (from an analogue channel, acceptable src quality - primarily shown for text, not video)

Sample (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source2-sample.jpg) - interlacing is obvious in the image, but text appears OK

[obiwan71]

I'll post new screenshots too. ;)
I'll make sure that they show combing artifacts and I'll try to provide stills with no filters applied at all. :)

[cjv]

@dilly:

Nice caps. Are you from eastern canada area by any chance? And if so are you on Shaw or Rogers digital cable there? I'm out west on shaw digital w/motorola dct2000 and the quality is pure crap (even just watching on normal tv) compared to your shots.

cjv

[obiwan71]

Another short clip from 24 (this is an exciting one, by the way :D)...

http://sbouf.free.fr/Extrait_24_divx503_768x576_2000kbps.avi

[dilly]

cjv:

Yes, I am.. I guess the news one gave away my location :)

I'm on Rogers digital with a Scientific Atlanta Explorer (http://www.sciatl.com/customers/subscriberimages/Explorer%20Family_200.jpg) 3200. The quality is superb through the S-Video, especially on the digital channels (the ones that you can see 'load up', block by block, when you tune into them).

Just recently analogue channels are beginning to ghost, although I believe this is a problem due to my gray outdoor cable box having a large glacier of ice immersing it. It should melt soon.

I don't think Rogers uses Motorola boxes in this area, but I could be mistaken. Everybody I know (even Shaw people) have Sci.Atlanta.

I'll post some shots of the analogue channels, for the sake of seeing some shots that may need processing, in a bit.

[dilly]

..cont'd

Source #3 - TV show (from a non-digital channel, good src quality)

Sample 1 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source3-no_di-sample1.jpg) (interlaced, but not apparent)
Sample 2 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source3-no_di-sample2.jpg) (obviously interlaced)
Sample 3 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source3-otf_di-sample1.jpg) (using on the fly deinterlacer optimized for my card)
Sample 4 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source3-otf_di-sample2.jpg) (using on the fly deinterlacer optimized for my card)

Source #4 - Movie (from an analogue channel, poor src quality)

Sample 1 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source4-sample1.jpg)
Sample 2 (http://members.rogers.com/j.buch/images/source4-sample2.jpg)

[dar1us]

I will get you some space - download all your files, can you all make a list if your files/locations with descriptions so I can download them all and then upload them to my host.

This is only to files that are not there already. I will include screenies and videos.

Check the magic address further up the thread

-dar1us

[dar1us]

OK - I really am gonna update the magical site. Really, and create mirrors or fixed locations atleast for all the files.

I will do this tonite, but the files wont appear until tommorow.

tonite=this morning. I wanna sleep:)

-dar1us

[neo_sapien]

Obiwan71, did you have to tweak the color/brightness/saturation controls any, or are those screenshots just default settings? I'll be setting up my own DC10+ in a few days, I've never used that card and I want to get it right ASAP. Will the newest drivers suffice?

[obiwan71]

Obiwan71, did you have to tweak the color/brightness/saturation controls any, or are those screenshots just default settings? I'll be setting up my own DC10+ in a few days, I've never used that card and I want to get it right ASAP. Will the newest drivers suffice?
If you don't tweak those settings, you probably won't get such results. Black won't be pure black, and the image won't be dark enough. When processing the video with AviSynth, I get a darker image and I'm happy with it.
If you want to use VirtualDub to open and edit your MJPEG files, you'll certainly have to tweak the color settings to get a darker image. When using AviSynth, you could do so AND apply the filter I was talking about in this previous topic (quite an interesting one by the way):
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28187&highlight=MJPEG

Though I encode my captures with AviSynth, I DON'T apply the filter...
I know that there is a bug, but I'm satisfied with the contrast and darkness I get... while keeping the default settings. :D:D

I hope I've been clear! :D

I'll post new screenshots. You'll see that the capture looks lighter than on the ones I've uploaded.

[neo_sapien]

I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on the finer points of what you're saying, but I know of and use the mjpegcorrect plugin. Can you post a common AVIsynth script that you use? Do you tweak the color settings on the DC10+ card in device settings, and if so, what settings do you use?

[obiwan71]

This is the kind of AVS script I use:

AVIsource("d:\film.avi")
LoadPlugin("decomb.dll")
FlipVertical()
Telecide()
Crop(4,76,764,424)
BicubicResize(720,400)

The lines in italics are optional. Some of my captures do NOT show any combing artifacts.

Don't forget the "FlipVertical" command: the picture would be upside down otherwise (this is another bug... :().

I usually don't tweak the default settings. In fact you can alter them depending on the video source or apply filters to adjust levels then.

[Jeff D]

obiwan71, do you not see banding in your captures? I just looked at the 6th sense clip and I could see it.

I ask because I've been trying to transfer my LDs over to DVD and the caps have a lot of banding, looking like 16bit color depth vs 24 bit color of HuffYUV.

I'll check some of your other clips. The screenshots seem to have the same dither/banding. Maybe I'm being too picky, but this doesn't look good on a large display.

These were 24bit captures? Maybe I need to go to a 32bit capture (oh that would be nuts)

[obiwan71]

I didn't know what the term "banding" meant. I've just looked for some information on the web.
To tell you the truth, I had not noticed anything wrong in my clips. Maybe it's just because I have an ATI video card.

[obiwan71]

Here are some new screenshots. No filters or deinterlacing have been applied and contrast/brightness/saturation settings have been set to default values.

Mel Gibson in What Women Want: http://sbouf.free.fr/gibson.jpg (MJPEG bitrate: 2000 Kb/s)

Screenshots from anamorphic video:
Ben Affleck: http://sbouf.free.fr/affleck_16-9.jpg (2000 Kb/s)
French actor Gérard Depardieu in Vidocq: http://sbouf.free.fr/depardieu_16-9.jpg (3000 Kb/s)
French actor André Dussollier in Vidocq: http://sbouf.free.fr/dussollier_16-9.jpg (3000 Kb/s)
Note: Vidocq was the first film to be shot with a high-definition digital camera.

And this is a MJPEG video with combing artifacts:
http://sbouf.free.fr/24_mjpeg_interlaced.avi

[Dali Lama]

Originally posted by obiwan71

Don't forget the "FlipVertical" command: the picture would be upside down otherwise (this is another bug... :().


I just wanted to bring attention to anyone who uses this card:

I found out at this link DC10+ Review (http://www.puremotion.com/videoediting/reviews/hardware/pinnacledc10plus/)

That if you install Dirext X 8, the DC10+ will not flip the image. Give it a try. I don't know, I don't have the card :)

Good Luck,

Dali

[neo_sapien]

Fellowship of the Ring full screen was playing on Starz, so I capped 20 minutes for some screenshots (20 screenshots). Bear in mind that DirecTV, the American digital satellite service which I subscribe to, has a very low bandwidth on most channels because they have a fixed bandwidth of around 640Mbps to distribute across hundreds of channels. Well, I think that's right (16 transponders, each 40mbps, right?). So the MPEG-2 that I'm watching on TV is probably about 2mbps.

Anyway, here are the screenshots. Color adjustments are using my THX color calibration settings (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48030).

http://home.covad.net/~wlabiche/CAPTEST/FOTR_FS/

[obiwan71]

That if you install Dirext X 8, the DC10+ will not flip the image
I have DirectX 8.0 installed.
But remember that it is only when you use AviSynth that the image is flipped. There is no problem otherwise.

[obiwan71]

I had posted nice screenshots (digital source). Here is a screenshot from a terrestrial source, just to give you an idea of the difference in quality.

(same card used - DC10+)

http://sbouf.free.fr/screenshot_terrestrial_source.jpg

[vhelp]

hi all :)

@ obiwan71,

When this thread first opened up, I was following it, till I lost it
and long forgotten it. Thanks for bringing it back. Even some of
the older clips and pegs are still active :) Thanks to dar1us and
others for this.

Yea, I REMEMBER THAT clip (one in your latest sample) And, it looks
great to me. What was the name of the Show and When was it aired ??

I've had my DC10+ card for many years now. Had problems in the beg
ining and later, fixed it and have ben happy w/it since. One thing
that I am displeased w/ is that it's limited to 640 x 480. I once
heard that you can jimmy it to cap at 720 x 480 but I've never seen
this actaully happen. (if anyone does, please enlight)

Yea, in my DC10+ I capture w/ 6000 bitrate because my system could
handle it. I think that maybe you should give it a try in yours.
I think I remember using my SIMA SED-CM for add color richness but
that was long ago, of which I don't remember too well these days. I'm
overwhelmed by many other projects. Anyways..

I've now since added others cards, Osprey-210 and latest, ADVC-100
to my list.. course, old news to some.

Hope to see others post clips here,
-vhelp

[obiwan71]

Yea, I REMEMBER THAT clip (one in your latest sample) And, it looks
great to me. What was the name of the Show and When was it aired ??
OK but... what clip are you talking about? :D

One thing
that I am displeased w/ is that it's limited to 640 x 480
Actually, I can't capture at 640x480. I've just tried to change the source format in FreeVCR: it seems that your limitation is due to the type of your source (NTSC?). My sources are PAL or SECAM, which enables me to capture at 768x576.

[vhelp]

OK but... what clip are you talking about? :D

Sorry, I thought it was from you :p The filename is below.

* Extrait_24_divx503_768x576_2000kbps.avi

Actually, I can't capture at 640x480. I've just tried to change the source format in FreeVCR: it seems that your limitation is due to the type of your source (NTSC?). My sources are PAL or SECAM, which enables me to capture at 768x576.

Ok, thanks anyways.. I thought it was possible for my NTSC card.

I was hoping to post a clip of a capture I did last night of some
movies that were on, but my computer w/ clips bombed out on me. I'll
see if I have those .avi's still laying around. I might have some stuff
that I did some time early this year w/ my ATI-TV Wonder card
if anyone is interested.

-vhelp

[dar1us]

Sorry to bring back up OLD news, but I was quite impressed, that site is still getting hits: http://www.aa981752.force9.co.uk - it gets like 36 a week, and has 2,500. It was really just setup to mirror the samples, but wow.

Openly chuffed,


harrison