How is everyone ripping SW Episode II?

[OvERaCiD23]

Just curious how everyone is ripping this one. I decided since it will likely be heavily watched to go for 100% quality all the way around - 3 CDs, Divx5 w/ b-frames, 5.1 AC3, Lanczos resize (704x288). Fits perfectly onto 3 CDs, ~5mb short of filling it all the way up.

[JohnMK]

I'll try to go 1CD if I can do so @ 480 res and get 60% at least quality..

[Acaila]

I don't know how things are in other countries, but in mine that movie just came out on DVD TODAY. Needless to say I pre-ordered it, so I've already got it :D (same with LotR [Extended version] which came out yesterday).
I'll let you know in a while how it rips, but first I want to watch it :).

[JohnMK]

I encode before/while I watch it. Seems to make sense to me . . . why should one's CPU be occupied at only 10-40% for the 2 hours that you're watching a movie, when it could be 100%?

[DJ Bobo]

I've got just some remarks:

1) Choose a resolution of 704x304 and not 704x288 (704x304 is closer to 2,35:1 than 704x288)

2) If you're using a 704 resolution, I'm assuming you're resizing in only one direction. For such resizings, BilinearResize is sufficient. So you better use it instead of LanczosResize (unless Lanczos is faster, which I don't know, compare if you aren't sure)

[JohnMK]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
I've got just some remarks:

1) Choose a resolution of 704x304 and not 704x288 (704x304 is closer to 2,35:1 than 704x288)


You have no idea how he's cropping or from where, so why are you so sure this would be good?

[OvERaCiD23]

(0,60,0,-63) are the crop values, so 704x288 is correct. height would be 304 if i didn't resize to 704, but keeping the resolution at 720 would require me to crop quite a few more pixels than i'd like from the top/bottom. thus, i'm resizing in 2 directions, so bilinear wouldn't be so hot here either (plus i'm not really paying attention to compressiblity right now). i think i'll try a 2 CD rip as well, just to see how it looks, but i'm thinking it won't look so hot with the 5.1 AC3 in there (~ 1/3 of the space).

[Acaila]

For a 2CD rip @640x272 and Neutral Bicubic I got 73% without Pro options and with AC3 audio. With QPel that became 79% and with B-frames (no QPel) that became 96%. So no need for 3 CD's, 2 is more than enough. I might even try to get it on 1 CD.

[JohnMK]

Do you like the effect of QPel? I've never tried it myself. Your opinion is sought. :D

[Acaila]

Most of the time it creates trailing noise around moving objects which I very much dislike. But I always use it in the testing phase before the actual encode. When I find a movie that it doesn't make worse I usually keep it in for the final version.

[DJ Bobo]

@ overacid
You have to crop only what is black. Don't crop to get a specific aspect ratio. Because sometimes the aspect ratio of the DVD itself isn't right. So just keep in mind which AR is on the cover.

So if you want highest sharpness, just keep 720 and resize down to 304 or 320 (I always tend to make the movie less wider when I encode to DivX. IMHO less wider is better than even wider)

[manono]

OvERaCiD23-

If the DD5.1 audio track is too big, you can free up 100-150MB to improve the video by transcoding the audio down to 256kbs or so. Here's the AC3Machine Guide (http://www.doom9.org/ac3machine.htm). It's easy to use, and the resulting audio sounds great.

[OvERaCiD23]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
@ overacid
You have to crop only what is black. Don't crop to get a specific aspect ratio. Because sometimes the aspect ratio of the DVD itself isn't right. So just keep in mind which AR is on the cover.

So if you want highest sharpness, just keep 720 and resize down to 304 or 320 (I always tend to make the movie less wider when I encode to DivX. IMHO less wider is better than even wider)

I'm using GKnot to make the .avs, so I should crop the borders until the output resolution is the correct AR? I've always cropped away the black borders manually, then use SmartCrop to obtain the correct AR. This is incorrect?

Originally posted by Acaila

For a 2CD rip @640x272 and Neutral Bicubic I got 73% without Pro options and with AC3 audio. With QPel that became 79% and with B-frames (no QPel) that became 96%. So no need for 3 CD's, 2 is more than enough. I might even try to get it on 1 CD.

How in the world did you get those comptest values? I attempted identical settings with a 10% test (Neutral bicubic, b-frames, same resolution), and only got ~65%. How did you get 96%? I'm going to have to check up on this, the reason I orignally thought 3 CDs would be better b/c i got such a low comptest result. (I like to shoot for >75%).


One more thing: is it safe to convert the 448 AC3 to 384? I've read many times over that the ac3enc.dll can create corrupt files and such, is this true on 5.1 tracks or just 2.0 tracks?

[Acaila]

If you've got NTSC that could explain the difference in compressibility. I've got R2 PAL and you?

[OvERaCiD23]

@ Acaila

yep, R1 NTSC. didn't think of that. i'm going to try 2 CDs with 5.1 sound, probably with C3D (movieHQ).

[DJ Bobo]

@ overacid
I never use the smartcrop function (it's not smart at all ¬.¬)
I *always* crop manually.
And just in case: be sure to have selected "Force Film" in DVD2AVI if your source is FILM.

@ manono
I don't agree with you on the 256kbps point because of high frequencies loss. If he has to recompress (which I strongly NOT recommend), no way to put a bitrate under 320kbps.

Just as information for overacid:
5.1 @ 256kbps cuts all frequencies over 12,4 KHz, that means you'll get a quality even worse than a normal tape.
5.1 @ 320kbps cuts all frequencies over 15,8 KHz, which is equivalent to the quality of normal joint stereo 128kbps MP3 files.
5.1 @ 384kbps cuts all frequencies over 18 KHz. This is OK for most people.
5.1 @ 448kbps has full frequency range up to 20,3 KHz. This is equivalent to Audio-CD quality.

An insider trick is to convert the 5.1 to 4.1 sound, mixing the center channel into the front channels. This will allow full frequency range already by 320kbps and js-128kbps-mp3-like quality @ 256kbps ;)

[manono]

Hi DJ Bobo-

I can't disagree with you on AC3Machine. Partly because I don't know enough about it, and partly because you're always right anyway (well, usually:)). But-it was developed by DSPguru, it's approved by MaTTeR, and it sounds great on my home theater speakers (admittedly not top of the line). Plus, I like to free up the extra bits to improve the video quality. So, that's good enough for me. Here's one thread about it:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33128&highlight=AC3Machine

And I do agree with you 100% about the cropping. Use Pixel Crop in GKnot, and keep an eye on the Aspect Error as you're doing it. Don't trust the Smart Crops.

[OvERaCiD23]

Interesting about cropping, I wish I'd of learned this sooner (or payed closer attention in GKnot). So should I even pay attention to the Aspect Error, or should I just get the AR correct?

[DJ Bobo]

As long as I'm concerned, I don't care about the AR given by GKnot (I don't use GKnot anyway, I just open it when I need to get the crop values).
I crop until all blacks bars are away (going at least 1 pixel into the picture to get an even crop value and be sure to have eliminated all blacks lines) and resize to the AR mentioned on the cover of the DVD, tending to make the y value a little bit higher if it's not pretty close to the lower div-16 value.

[manono]

Hi DJ Bobo-

Finally-a subject I know a little something about and can debate on equal terms. Yes, crop even numbers. I'll go further than that and make horizontal crops divisible by four. That's because I like to put Telecide-Decimate after crop for a slight speed boost, and it and a few other filters require it.

But as for cropping black bars and then resizing to 640x272 (for example)-as you know a movie that is supposed to be 2.35:1 might not be exactly that, but somewhere between 2.30 and 2.40:1 (guessing). If they were all exactly 2.35:1, I think the amount of black bars to be cropped would be the same every time (ignoring for the moment the left-right crops), and of course, it isn't. Doing it your way can lead to Aspect Error of up to about 2%. Now, you might say that you can't tell a 2% error, and you'd be right. But in the interests of doing it the best way possible, I certainly would take Aspect Error into account, try to get it as low as possible, and that's where GKnot can't be beat.

So, OvERaCiD23, when you use the Smart Crops, it does get the Aspect Error very low. But if you switch to Pixel Crop, then you have to start paying attention to it. My main objection to the Smart Crops is that they give you odd number crop values frequently. And I especially don't like Smart Crop All because it cuts into the top and bottom to give proper AR, and makes those 2.35:1 movies even narrower than they were to begin with.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the original subject, but it's nice to discuss and learn. But to return to the subject of the original post:

How is everyone ripping SW Episode II?

I'm not. I think it's almost as bad as Ep I with that idiotic Jar Jar Jerk. I think George Lucas has completely lost it, and is using a bunch of cool computer special effects to hide an embarrassingly bad script and an incompetent male lead. Now, LOTR Extended-there's a movie! Sorry-I couldn't resist. Can't we discuss the movies here, and not just backing them up? Isn't that why we spend so much time perfecting our techniques-because we love films?

[OvERaCiD23]

I'm definetly going to take this all into account in the future. I've actually stopped ripping as often as I used to, so now I can put a bit more effort into each movie (I used to be doing 1-2 movies per day, playing catch up). Thanks for all the input manono, DJ Bobo, & Acaila.

[Acaila]

Even though I agree that the story isn't exactly outstanding, it's still good enough for a fan (=me). Hats off for the mastering of this DVD though. It's the first movie I've ever seen that's completely without noise. Which means I can use Lanczos resize safely without too much of a drop of compressibility :).

And for those of you who don't have it yet, buy LotR Extended! :D. It's too brilliant a movie to not have in your collection. The extra scenes really add more depth and actually supply information that I missed in the original (and who'd want to miss Gandalf speaking the language of Mordor ;)). Too bad I don't have a surround system, because it comes with a 6.1 DTS stream.
Getting it to fit on 2 CD's shouldn't be too hard either, because the credits are over 25 mins :).

[brett]

Originally posted by DJ Bobo
@ overacid
You have to crop only what is black. Don't crop to get a specific aspect ratio. Because sometimes the aspect ratio of the DVD itself isn't right. So just keep in mind which AR is on the cover.

Wow. I'm surprised nobody else commented on this statement. Maybe I'm reading you wrong here. Are you honestly suggesting that people should look at the aspect listed on the DVD cover and assume the DVD was encoded incorrectly if the aspect doesn't match that?

Most flat widescreen movies say 1.85:1 on the cover. Most anamorphic widescreen movies say 2.35:1 on the cover. Some studios (like Disney) will often make a 16:9 full-frame transfer, and these are sometimes labelled correctly as 1.77:1. The simple fact is that 99% of the time, the actual aspect of the movie doesn't perfectly match the aspect listed on the box. There are many DVD's which don't list the aspect at all.

Perhaps you just meant, "Keep in mind what the box says, but it might not be right." Still, I don't see why you're telling people not to crop to get a specific aspect. In the case of Episode II, the movie actually is very close to 2.35:1. Still, you will NOT get an accurate aspect ratio if you only crop the black, because your output must be divisible by 16 (preferably 32 horizontally) for DivX.

Episode II is 720x365 (2.338:1) if you crop the black. The first line on the top is extremely dark, and the second line is extremely bright (in most scenes), and the same goes for the bottom, so you'll get a cleaner (and more compressable) source if you crop it to 720x361 (2.363:1).

If you want to resize Episode II to a width of 704, it is not possible to resize to the correct aspect.

704x288 = 2.444:1
704x304 = 2.316:1

So, do you really want to just cram a 2.363:1 movie into a 2.316:1 aspect? The correct way to resize (for DivX) is to crop the source to 706x361 (2.317:1) and resize to 704x304 (2.316:1).

[ReTroAcTive]

Originally posted by Acaila
Hats off for the mastering of this DVD though. It's the first movie I've ever seen that's completely without noise.

This is because Star Wars Ep2 is the first dvd that is made from the digital source the movie was "filmed" on. They seem to be quite proud of this fact. As far as the story line gos, it was set at the same time Ep4 was made with a few tweaks here and there. I would say anyone that thinks the newer Star Wars are too "childish" forget they where much younger when the first(last) 3 came out. I mean come on , ewoks are about the same as jar jar. I think Attack of the Clones is only second to Empire Strikes Back and I think Lucas should hand over directing again like he did with Empire. I heard all about how bad Ep1 was when it came out , and how jar jar sucked and the story was lost and how Lucas dropped the ball, well all I can say about it is, its a freaken movie, lighten up, enjoy it, dont pick it a part.
I backed up my dvd of Ep2 at 608 x 256 to 2 cds. I go for lower rez so some of the older, slower computer I have around here can still play them without jitters and jumps.

[Sgt_Strider]

Originally posted by ReTroAcTive
This is because Star Wars Ep2 is the first dvd that is made from the digital source the movie was "filmed" on. They seem to be quite proud of this fact. As far as the story line gos, it was set at the same time Ep4 was made with a few tweaks here and there. I would say anyone that thinks the newer Star Wars are too "childish" forget they where much younger when the first(last) 3 came out. I mean come on , ewoks are about the same as jar jar. I think Attack of the Clones is only second to Empire Strikes Back and I think Lucas should hand over directing again like he did with Empire. I heard all about how bad Ep1 was when it came out , and how jar jar sucked and the story was lost and how Lucas dropped the ball, well all I can say about it is, its a freaken movie, lighten up, enjoy it, dont pick it a part.
I backed up my dvd of Ep2 at 608 x 256 to 2 cds. I go for lower rez so some of the older, slower computer I have around here can still play them without jitters and jumps.

I couldn't agree more with you. Episode 2 ranks 2nd on my list as well and I simply can't get enough of Episode 5: The Empire Strike back. Its simply a awesome movie considering it was release back in the early 80's. It was release before I was even born!

[Outsider]

Anyone taking advantage of making an XCD of AOTC? Almost 200 Xtra megs to go to the video. I made a great 2 CD rip. Read up about it here.
Doom's XCD Guide (http://www.doom9.org/xcd.htm)