Vobinstant CD/DVD-Nero-Image Tool

[Vortexvan]

Sorry,

but i can go crazy...*arggg*
I tried to burn a dvd with
Vob Instant CD/DVD instead of
Nero since the Nero-Disk`s wont
play in my Standalone. But guess
what..... Vob Instant Disk`s
wont play either. The only thing
that really works is to create
an image with "Image Tool" and
burn it with dectypter.
Since this is not so bad for me
it seems that the Quality suffer
from creating the Image i don`t
no for sure wheter this is a
problem with my System or a
Problem with the Image Tool.
The created Images have bad Quality;
Drop outs, Artifacts event short
blockings.
As i only have AMD Systems i`m not
sure whether it`s a VIA Isssue or
a Harddisk Problem or someting else.

Please if somebody would be so kind
and post his experience here??

I`m running out of Ideas

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

Hi,
It sounds like a media problem to me. I use imgtool all the time now it generates very reliable images. I do however write them with Prassi. Drop outs and pixelisation is down to media usually.
I have an Athlon myself 1333Mhz with a Asus K7M266 Motherboard using VIA chips I have no problems.

The method I use writing with Prassi and using imgtool I get software that will play on XBOX, PC , Scan SC2000 DVD player , Sony DVP 735 and Play station 2 and everthing else I have tried. :D

I use DVD Master media ( Dark Purple Die ). You might want to try these. I have have and still have media that causes pixelisation ( Paradox ) on films especially towards then end of the film. This is where the media is spining fastest and the error rate increases. :rolleyes:
So therefore I don't buy these anymore...

Regards,
Drafty

[Vortexvan]

Mhh....

well its interesting. The images i have, still have
Problems, i mounted them with "deamon tools" and played
them with PowerDVD. The Problems occured exactly
at the same timestamp ... It`s just PowerDVD has a
better Errorcorrection than my standalone so in PowerDVD
i see only, let`s call it "Colour Fields" you only
notice them if you know where the Problem is in your
standalone.
I usually use Verbatim to write, so i think it`s not
really a media issu.
But it`s intresting you also use a Via Chipset and you
say you have no Problems with that...
To explain it better, I usually do this with my DVD`s...
I rip the dvd to my Maxtor HDD`s on my Promis Fastrak 100 Controller
(Both drives are in Raid Mode 0)
After Ripping i use IFOedit to get only the movie and place the Files
on a IBM Drive which is connected on the "standard" IDE Port of my
MOBO. The last step is to create the Image, wich is written to
a second Partion on the Maxtor drives. Thats all, the only thing
what i`m thinking of is that Via has problems with high workload on
their IDE Bus but i`m not sure.

Regards
Vor

[drafty]

Hmm.. I think perhaps you are right. Could be a DMA type issue I also use a fastrak with raid 1 BTW. Maybe the data cannot be read fast enough from the drive for some reason.

:confused:

[drafty]

Are you overclocking your system?

[drafty]

I had another thought, on the fasttrak the there is a utility you get that allows you to alter the PCI bus utilisation you may want to give this a try. Given what you have said it looks like either bad data or a data access problem. You might want to try swapping the cable for a new one it might simply be causing lots of retries giving rise to skipping....

Interesting...

[Vortexvan]

No, i don`t overclock my system.

Actually i swap the IBM drive
to a Fujitsu Drive on the Via IDE
Port and do a test again.

It`s really frustrating not even
the quality but also to have only
one option to burn the disk`s
I don`t really understand whats
happening with the Files in the Image
tool vs. Nero or vs. Vobinstant ...
It`s really crazy...

You can`t just say "he it`s a new Media" well
it is, but not "that" new. Most of Recording
Drives exist in the second Genaration or even
third. Also the software should be able to burn
the files the right way, isn`t there a ISO- Regulation
for that how the files should be organized and how the
should look like on the final dvd? So It`s just a iplementation
issu i think.

But on the other hand maybe the hardware vendor of the standalone
has bad implementations of this ISO-thing (for me it`s pioneer
and that should be very annoying if they produce crap standalone)

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

Okay lets think about this logically...
Vobs should play without problem from your hard drive in a directory structure.
Vobs play should play from an IMG with daemon tools I use it myself.
Imgtool works Ok for me.
Your stand alone cannot play images written with out experiencing problems at the same timestamp.
You computer cannot play image from HD without problems at the same timestamp as the stand alone.

Question does the image play in powerdvd before imagetool is used?
If so create the image on the same drive and try it again.

Conclusion
If this works then great you have a bad drive or cable.
If not then I suspect your DVD directory structure is imcompatible with imgtool. Image tool is sensitive to having a full set of files i.e it doesn't like having VTS_1_1 VTS_1_2 then VTS 3_0 etc it likes consecutive VTS's.

over to you... :)

[Vortexvan]

Sorry for confusing you,

i mixed to problems together, the first one
is the quality issu (which i`m still not sure
where it came from) and the second one is the
problem burning the disk either xx.img or directory
structure.

Concerning the Burning issu, the only way for me
to get a working disk (appart from the quality)
is to create a image.

Usually i create a Directory lets call it TEST
an also create two subdirectories VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS.
In the VIDEO_TS i place the files i get from IFOEdit.

With TEST i can do two tings, first i can create a image,
wich is no problem at all and this will work perfecly on
my standalone. Second i can create at new Project in either
NERO or Vobinstant and drop this subdirectorys to the projekt.

For me the result should be the same, but in fact is isn`t.

As i only want the movie without any menu or other "goodies"
i create new ifofiles with ifoedit, after that i correct the
VTS sectors and thats it.

This files play just fine in Powerdvd, also the source rip and
the created image. (beside the qualtiy issue)

Regards
Vor

[drafty]

Okay perhaps I am misunderstanding so I will discuss what you have stated in your last message.
Using an image is the most reliable way of writing a DVD in my experience. I started out using nero ( directory method ) this produced disks what would work fine in my DVD player sony , PS2 and computer but would not work on my XBOX. Then I switched to VOB Instant this was much better and produced disks that would work on all of these mostly 75-85% of the time. Then I switched to Prassi this also produced disks that worked on all three then percentage when up again to 95%. I then started using the image method with Prassi and I am currently at 100% with no failures after 10-20 writes...
In terms of quality there is no difference at all for me.
Not sure on your set etc but could it be you are trying to play say PAL content on a NTSC TV or vice versa ( No patronisation intended )?
This obvously woudl work on a monitor but not on your stand alone connected to your TV perhaps...

:D

[drafty]

Just to clarify...
Video Quality is not a function of the burning process per say.
Video quality is a function of the transcoding process.
Sync problems the remuxing process.
Pixelisation skipping is usually a media issue.
DVD links not working or missing chapters is usually an authoring issue (IFOEDIT etc). Prassi will attempt to change some files on its own sometimes I beleive if your using the directory method and you have checking enabled.

[Vortexvan]

Just for your information i found this here in the forum

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=35397
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=36926

i read all the postings there but still there is no
explanation why the image method work and all other
won`t.

Actually i use the ImgTool from the CCE & IfoEdit guide
to creat my images (v 089) i can`t create the image with
IFOEdit maybe it`s because i missed someting, but it`s Ok.
and maybe your image creating software is better in producing
the image.

I`ll do a little testing this evening and came up with results
tomorrow.

Regards

Vor

B.T.W. thank`s for answering :-)

[Vortexvan]

Originally posted by drafty
Just to clarify...
Video Quality is not a function of the burning process per say.
Video quality is a function of the transcoding process.
Sync problems the remuxing process.
Pixelisation skipping is usually a media issue.
DVD links not working or missing chapters is usually an authoring issue (IFOEDIT etc). Prassi will attempt to change some files on its own sometimes I beleive if your using the directory method and you have checking enabled.

I`m not 100 % convienced. Because of the Via Issue lets say you
copy a file of 1 Gigybyte over the VIA IDE Bus, you will have
problems. Why this happens isn`t exactly clear but a german
PC - Magazin tested this out for some reason. And it`s really the
Problem (they tried it with MP3 Files afair).
Also somewhere in the forum is a posting (sorry can`t find it
anymore) where somebody stated that he has problems with Verbatim
Disk, he get an anser from verbatim that this is no disk issue its
more a problem from via because they don`t follow the standards.

Regards
Vor

[drafty]

No problem at all. Please post your results. I would however still like to understand what you mean by quality...

Regards...

[drafty]

Sorry got your post out of order...
I copy large files complete DVDs , image files etc from my removable HD to my raid array and vice versa all the time. I have a VIA chipset also 761 Northbridge I beleive although I could be mistaken. I have seen no issues at all however I am happy to except there maybe issues with other via chipsets.
:confused:

[drafty]

Could it be you operating system? Im using Windows XP I switched from Windows 98 SE duw to the file system constraints ( MAX FILE SIZE )
and I now run NTFS. Which is great.

Regards...

[Vortexvan]

I`m also using winXP Pro
because of the same reason as you do *g*
i have to do a little more testing this
evening, I`ll keep you informed a soon as
i get results.

B.T.W. My Primäry Disk is also an Maxtor wich
is conected to the Promise Controller, I`m running
a Multibootsystem with Win2k/WinXP since the Problem
exists on both systems i assume it can`t be a
Windows Problem.....

For the DVD-Thing i have the Maxtor Raiddrives for
Ripping and a seperate Drive (connected to the Mobo)
for temp. Storing the files from IfoEdit. This is what
i`m going to change this evening. I trie to do the whole
DVD-Thing on the Promis Controller without having the
Problem to go over the VIA IDE Controller beside the
burner of corse.

I`ll hope this fix the "quality Problem"

If not :-) mmmhhhh...


Regards
Vor


P.S.: I assume you are to far away from Germany aren`t you ? :-)

[Vortexvan]

@ drafty

take a look here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37920

can you verify my settings?

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

your settings seem fine your using UDF 1.02 with Joilet Disabled
This is what I have used in the past. Didn't seem to help though Nero still produced XBOX incompatible disks. :mad: Even with the new DVD-Video mode...

[drafty]

Motto for CD's its great for DVD's no so great.

[Vortexvan]

@ drafty

Hi ,

take a look at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38094

this is what i try to explain you with the qualtiy issue.

May you have a idea whats happening there.

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

After looking at these files...
My observations are firstly that the ripped file looks ok apart from the large blocks in the upper right hand side zone.
The second image after IFOedit are obviously darker is this the same frame number as the first? The blocks from the original are gone and have been replaced with blocks to the left middle zone.
I have never known IFOedit to effect the video brightness...This is a function of the mpeg stream. Are my observations above in line with your thinking...?

Questions
Why are there blocks in the ripped content? Could it be that you are trying to rip a Bad or dirty disk?
Why is the video effected when Ifoedit is used?
Is the video played back both times with the same player?

Try altering the mode you are addressing your DVD reader in this could be why your getting blocks....

[drafty]

Can you play content back ok from your computers DVD-ROM drive?

[Vortexvan]

The darker Picture is just taken a few seconds
later than the brighter, exactly when this picture
fade out before the main movie. So it`s normal.
Only the blocks are my problem. As you see this
pictures are taken with PowerDVD. On my standalone
this blocks are just bigger than here and sometimes
colored pink. I think thats because the error-correction
of the hardwareplayer isn`t that good.

I changed the Hardwaresettings last evening, just to see
wether it is a hardwareproblem.
I keep you informed.
B.T.W. the disk seems to be fine, i`m ripping with my Pioneer
DVR Drive A04 and i`m going to try more I/O setting in Decryptor
actually i`m ripping the same disk with SPTI, i do the ripping
later with the wnaspi (adaptec V4.6).

After changing my HDD Configuration my WinXP won`t boot probably ....
i really hate MS and their F....ing HardwareID

Regards
Vor

P.s.: the original disk playd without a glitch, in my standalone and also in any of my PC`s

[drafty]

Okay then I would make sure you have your writer setup correctly in the BIOS. Access modes etc. Im not sure what mine is set to its a 104 as well.
:cool:

[drafty]

When viewing a disk on your PC it works ok this data will be transfered accross the BUS just like anything else...
I think this fact is interesting. It seems to point to the ripping process after the rip you get macro blocks.... :scared:
As suggested before check the configuration of your drives , try changing swapping the cables...


Regards...

[drafty]

Sometimes in situations like this you need to swap out hardware.
I suggest perhaps swapping out hardware with a friend to try and locate the problem. Its possible thats its your decryptor settings , I have not altered the settings in decyptor from the default and I rip with a Pioneer DVD Reader I have no problems.

Why not try a friends DVD reader then a HD then memory etc etc?
You'll find the answer eventually.

[Vortexvan]

@drafty

i made some extensiv testing :-))

Result, the files of the dvd i ripped are mostly ok,
the files are still ok after ifoedit (only few errors)
After creating a image (no matter what kind of Hdd and no
matter where the hdd is conected to) the files suffer from
blockings. I am not exactly shure but for me it`s a problem
of creating the image. :-(

Thats not so bad since i found a way to burn without using
the image but i lost the compatibilty to other players.

But i keep testing further

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

Hi Vor,
interesting results but could you clarify for me.
After rip the ripped files are MOSTLY ok? Does this mean they contain large macro blocks or not?
Ifoedit gives errors too... :-o

Okay just for your info incase you dont know. Ripping for me produces no errors.
Ifoedit produces no errors and creating the image produces no errors.
The resulting DVD is the same quality as the original.
Sorry if this is obvious but I thought I should make this clear.

Do you have DMA swictched on etc...? Try a different addressing mode.

This is begining to sound like a hardware issue. One thing you might want to try is underclocking your processor drop the FSB to 100Mhz. Check your memory settings make sure there by SPD ( built in settings ). I have had problems like this before due to a bad memory stick. Seems strange though that nothing else is effected. I would have expected corruption of file on your harddrive when installing applications etc. Oh and you do have a beefy power supply to power all that hardware don't you?

Regards,
Drafty

[drafty]

hmm... 4 Harddrives and Two Burners, and a power hungry Athlon 1800Mhz
Maybe a large PSU is required. Mind you I run a Poineer Reader A Pioneer Writer Two Raided HD's and a Temp HD connected to motherboard.
My processor is a 1333Mhz I domt suffer any propblems but I do have a 300W Power supply.

:D

[Vortexvan]

@ drafty

the Powersuppley isn`t really the Problem. It`s an Enermax
with 450 Watt that should be enough even for my Hardware :-))

I agree with you it`s a hardware Problem but really Strange.
I rebuild my configuration on a second PC with my old
ASUS A7V and my Promise Raid Mod.
Ripped a DVD, put it through IfoEdit and Created a Image.
And it plays just fine like the Original Files did. No
Macroblocks as far as i can see.

So i don`t recommend SOYO MOBO`s if you like to do DVD editing.

Maybe the are bayed be MS becouse the used a new Copyprotection:-)
Just another Conspiracy Theory

So thanks a lot for your help.

Regards

Vor

[drafty]

Well glad you got to the bottom of the problem at last!! :D
BTW in answer to an earlier question im in the UK.

Seeya ,
Drafty