Remuxing TMPGEnc encoding M2V with IFOEdit

[Jinxed]

Please, has someone got any insights into a problem that I am having remuxing M2V files with the original DVD streams using IFOEdit?

The problem is thus: First VOB file seems to remux OK. Motion is smooth. Second VOB onwards produce what seems to be a collection of stills. Audio is fine. Subtitles are fine. I have followed the Doom9 guides to the letter for the creation of a DVD with main movie only, using TMPGEnc 2.54a to re-encode the video, instead of REMPEG which produced very poor video for me.

The process is as follows:

1. Rip DVD with DVD Decrypter (Main movie only)
2. Use IFOEdit 0.93 to strip out unwanted streams and create new IFO and BUP files.
3. Create TMPG template with IFOEdit, I-frames only
4. Run DVD2AVI to create d2v file for frame serving with TMPGEnc
5. Run TMPGEnc 2.54a Wizard to create a M2V file of the correct size (all settings as per the original movie, i.e. VBR, interlace, aspect ratio, PAL etc).
6. Remux the resultant M2V file with IFOEdit (have tried 0.6, 0.93 and 0.94).
7. Burn coaster using IFOEdit image creator and DVD Decrypter.
8. Watch the DVD on a standalone DVD player and weep.

I have eliminated the DVD creation process as the source of this problem, as I later watched the VOBs only using PowerDVD. It is there that I discovered that the VOBS were not playing correctly.

The M2V file seems fine however. So somewhere in the remux process the thing has got screwed up.

Any ideas?

[specul8]

I am also having problems remuxing using IFOEdit. The steps I am taking are the same as Jinxed, except I can't get TMPGenc to load the TmpgTemplate.txt file that IfoEdit creates - So I skip this step. (TMPGEnc ver 2.58.44.152, IfoEdit 0.94). The end result seems to be the same as well.

If it helps, the transcoded video stream plays fine in PowerDVD - Smooth as silk. It is only when remuxing it that it seems to fail.

Using the same m2v file and extracting the audio stream using smartripper, then remuxing it in spruce up seems to work fine, so that is the way I'm doing it at the moment. However I would prefer to have more control over the end process and would like to use IFOEdit.

Hope someone has a torch with which they can enlighten us :)

Thanks - Specul8

[Jinxed]

Thanks for that Specul8.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the process of forcing the I frames from the TMPGEnc template takes about 1 1/2 hours, during which time, the Windows task manager reports that TMPGEnc is "not responding".

However, after this time it miraculaously comes back to life and I can then start the encoding process. Some others may well think that the program has crashed and do an "end task" on the app.

It still doesn't help however, as the remuxing problem occurs anyway.

I am only speculating, but is it possible that the TMPGEnc template does not work or is not correct?

[ticoff]

I tried once to encoded with TMPGenc and got problems loading the TMPGenc template. This program get frozen when load the template and I decided to restart the computer after one hour.

Is it possible to encoded with TMPGenc without load the TMPGenc template created by IFOEDIT ? What will be the diference ?

Ticoff

[mpucoder]

The template is used to tell TMPGenc the exact GOP structure to use. That way the video it produces can be slipped back into the vob without the need to recompute VOBU boundaries. In other words, to work like ReMPEG2.

[Steff]

Yes, that's been a problem up to now. Remuxing with IFOEDIT requires exacttly the same GOP-structure in the m2v-file as it is in the original VOB-files. This worked with ReMPEG2 most of the time, but only once in a while with TMPGEnc. There was a bunch of speculations about the reason(s) as you will find when searching with the apropriate keywords here.

BUT... Derrow managed to solve the mysteries of muxing (which is not trivial as you will find out, when you spend bucks on authoring software which produces buffer-underruns a.s.o.)

We should all be a bit patient and give Derrow a few more days. Version 0.95 of IFOEDIT will solve these problems. And it will be much quicker than the old versions.

VOB-Structure will be no matter anymore (as long as you stay within the specs).

I am glad to continue recoding with TMPGEnc then, which - IMHO - gives better results than ReMPEG.

Hail Derrow !!! :D

[specul8]

I have to admit, I only waited for the TmpgTemplate.txt file for an hour before I canned the import process. I assumed from the comments in the tutorials ( http://www.doom9.org/mpg/tmpg-dvdencoding.htm ) that it would only take 5 minutes or so.

Slightly off topic, but part of the same guide - Can anyone explain to me why when trying to calculate the new (lower) bitrate for TMPG you take the Size of new VideoStream value and divide it by 8 times the length of the movie in seconds to get the new bitrate?

I would have thought that

average bitrate / 1000 (To get mBit rate) * Scalefactor %

would give you the right result? Can anyone tell me the reasoning behind the mathematical details in the guide? I've had a look around the other guides and did a search on the forum but could not bring up any relevant results within the first couple of pages of posts.

Lastly, Respect to Derrow who is developing this tool for the greater good of this community. As Steff says, Hail Derrow!

Thanks all.

Specul8

[mpucoder]

That's not right! I just looked at the guide, and that's a mistake. The average bitrate = (size of new videostream) * 8 / (length in seconds)

[rmtaibo]

Originally posted by mpucoder
The template is used to tell TMPGenc the exact GOP structure to use. That way the video it produces can be slipped back into the vob without the need to recompute VOBU boundaries. In other words, to work like ReMPEG2.

In the theory, that's true...
But in fact, the results are far from this.
Sometimes TMPGEnc shows different number of frames than IFOEDIT template, so there's no correspondence between GOPs analyzed by both programs.
And sometimes TMPGEnc and Ifoedit shows the same total number of frames (in theory the exact GOP structure) and still remuxed video does not play smoothly...

[mpucoder]

You are correct, my friend, it is a theory.:)

[rmtaibo]

Mpucoder:

This situacion makes me to remember when I was learning to make SVCDs more than 2 years ago...
Sometimes I got this kind of video freezing when I used Panasonic MPEG Encoder.
This encoder sometimes produced VBV buffer underflows at specific video bitrates, so you must change VBV buffer settings in this encoder.
I think this SVCD scenary has nothing to do with this Ifoedit-TMPGEnc problem, but maybe is a good variable to begin to look for...

[mpucoder]

Actually, its very possible, since both are mpeg, there are some common woes. I'll keep that in mind if I look into it further.

[Jinxed]

I have been trying to get all my DVDs on the hard drive re-encoded for weeks now and I have been having loads of problems, but I think I have cracked it.

IFOEdit seems to be a waste of time for remixing. Version 0.6 works best but there are still some problems with jerky motion.

For the re-encoding, REMPEG can produce good results if set up on “Full” rather than “Prediction” mode I have found. But the results even on “full” are poor compared to the quality produced by TMPGEnc.

However I found TMPGEnc extremely difficult to use and several of the steps you need to take lock the computer up for several hours. The version of TMPEnc I have been using is 2.54a. But thanks to a work colleague (also into DVD copying) I have now got hold of TMPGEnc Plus 2.58 (registered) and that seems to have fixed the lock up problems.

I have just finished re-encoding Harry Potter, Green Mile, Phantom Menace, Pearl Harbour, and Enigma and found that the M2V files produced by TMPGEnc 2.58 with sometimes as low as 65% reduction in bit rate, produce great results. Remuxing with IFOEdit 0.6 produces reasonable results but some slight annoying stuttering still exists. Other versions of IFOEdit of course stutter to the hills, even the latest, 0.94.

Last week I also got hold of a copy of DVD Maestro and this week I have been playing with it. I have just today re-authored Enigma from the M2V file I created with TMPGEnc and audio stream ripped using Smartripper, subtitles ripped with Subrip and chapters with ChapterXtractor. The results are very impressive.

My new vobs will fit onto a DVD-R and with the help of IFOEdit again I created a movie only DVD (don’t want the hassle of menus). No jerky motion, complete with subtitles and fully working chapters.

This process takes a fraction longer than using remux from IFOEdit, but the results are much better. By the way, did you know that for PAL DVDs, IFOEdit still puts in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file that the film is NTSC?

[Steff]

@ Jinxed
By the way, did you know that for PAL DVDs, IFOEdit still puts in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file that the film is NTSC?

This is true for the 'format' of the menu if you create new video_vts.ifo... from scratch ('movie only method'). But then there is _no_ menu to be displayed and I never cared about this (although it's easy to change to PAL if you want to...

Your method with MAESTRO must be great. But you spent a lot of money for MAESTRO, didn't you.
IFOEDIT is free and with the forthcoming features it will remux your sound (even more than one) and vision (und subtitles, if required) without the 'stuttering / freezing problems which are caused so far due to the above mentioned reasons - and all that quickly and easily. I learned that MAESTRO can be a bit complicated but I never saw it...

Greetz
Steff

[Kenwood]

The stream stripping should be the very last step in the whole process !
You make a template & a .d2v from the ORIGINAL .VOB's and IFO, so nothing must be stripped !!!!
After the transcode process, again use the ORIGINAL IFO & .VOB's to remux back.
Then delete all files from the directory where the remuxed .VOB are, EXEPT the .VOB's.
Then let Ifoedit create new IFO's en do a Get VTS Sectors.
Then load the newly created .IFO from the 'new remuxed main .VOB files' en then strip the stream !!!!
Again delete from this all the new files exept EXCEPT the stripped .VOB's en let Ifoedit again create new IFO's en after that do a Get VTS Sectors.
You will see that everything playes fine.
ALWAYS use ORIGIAl IFO's and VOB's for remuxing -> never stipped VOB cause then the trick won't work !
I've created a Threat where I describe how I do it with TMPGEnc, take a look at it: TMPGenc 100% Working - No Choppy Audio/Video.
Greetz,

Kenwood