Support "also" to the DVD+R/+RW format !

[luciana]

I would like to know why DOOM9 - un excelent site - only give good infos about the format dvd-r/-rw and forget the dvd+r/+RW !!!

Doom9 site: "Mitsubishi Electric has announced a new laser diode which should allow to write DVDs at 8x speed. Samples should be out by December and mass production should start in June 2003. For those not familiar with DVD recording speeds 8x allows you to write a full DVD-R in about 7 minutes."

In www.cdrinfo.com we see it properly !!!
"Mitsubishi announces new red Laser supporting 8X speed for DVD±R/RW formats!
Thursday, 19 September 2002

Mitsubishi Electric Corp. announced a new red semiconductor laser diode (ML1XX20), supporting 140mW light output that enables writing up to 8X for all DVD recordable/re-writing formats" sic http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=2772

Even worse your "forget" the bad news about the -r format, and i quote:

sic http://www.cdrinfo.com/#2769 "Wednesday, 18 September 2002
Pioneer Electronics said Tuesday that its DVD-rewritable drives overheat when recording on certain high-speed disks. Representatives from Pioneer Electronics USA, based in Long Beach, Calif., said that writing to blank 4x DVD-R and 2x DVD-RW discs can cause its DVD rewritable PC drives and DVD recorders to freeze"

Don't tell me it's for compatibility issues ...

[Doom9]

you are seriously getting the wrong impression. Having to write DVD-R/W & DVD+R/W every time you mean something generic for recordable DVDs is just really annoying. Or are you suggestiong that I do a sitewide search for DVD-R and add DVD+R after each -R instance? Unless otherwise mentioned when I say DVD-R that includes the +R format.

And as for the firmware update: Pioneer officially released new firmware for their DVD-R/W drives. They prevent problems that could occur when you try burning the upcoming 4x DVD-R and 2x DVD-RW discs. I object to the sensational reporting some other sites have done on that issue. The official press release was: September 17, 2002 - As the DVD Forum releases the specifications for high-speed media, Pioneer Europe NV announces that a number of its DVD-R/RW computer drives and DVD-R/RW recorders will require a firmware update in order to use the new media and avoid potential damage to the units and media. Note the potential. Unless I know for sure I don't think it's wise to accuse Pioneer of devices catching fires and the likes (many other site has implied that).

Is it just me or are you just looking for reasons not to like the competing format because you've put your money elsewhere? Sadly enough this kind of attitude has shown up way too many times in these very forums. If you bother to read up on my comments on the competing formats you should not better than to accuse me of any bias.. I have repeatedly made posts which are more in favor of the DVD+R format despite owning a DVD-R recorder.

[padre]

luciana

I think most people posting information to this forum do so with no slant towards one format or another. Authoring, Ripping, Remuxing, etc. are all issues that don't really matter the format of the user's burner.

Also, if you look at who posts most (if not all) the announcements about what one format is doing versus another, you'll see it's USERS of this forum, not Doom9 or moderators. Doom9 does not decide what is worthwhile posting about the format wars, the users do.

Granted, some users have hard fast reasons they've chosen one format versus another. However, I think if you took a poll, you'd find just as many owners of +R/RW drives find useful information on this forum, as the owners of -R/-RW drives.

[luciana]

To Doom9
1 - Ithink is sad is that you say my post is sad, just because you have bet on the -r format !!!
2 - "Having to write DVD-R/W & DVD+R/W every time you mean something generic for recordable DVDs is just really annoying..." - You could just write dvd+r/w !!!
3 - "Unless otherwise mentioned when I say DVD-R that includes the +R format."
We all know that there is a dispute over 3 recording formats of DVD: DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RAM; It's an irresponsible argument or is it intelectual pornography ?

4 - "I have repeatedly made posts which are more in favor of the DVD+R format despite owning a DVD-R recorder."

One more reason for you to write dvd+r, instead of -r !!!

To padre
I don't want to start a format war here. I just would like, yes would like, to see "words" about the 3 formats being more clear at doom9.

[Doom9]

my burner was a gift, therefore I didn't put any money on either system (blanks don't count, once written it's a done deal and you haven't lost or earned anything).
And -R is more clear to understand than +R.. we have used the term CD-R for recordable CDs for a long while now, people not familiar with the various DVD formats will just assume DVD-R = recordable DVD which is just what I'm intending to. And DVD-RAM is an irrelevant format for our purposes.

[alexnoe]

8x speed will certainly not make a disc in 7 minutes.

To achieve this, the burning process would have to start at 8x (i.e. 8x CLV), which would require the disc to spin at 11.000 rpm (current 48x CAV CD writers spin the disc at that speed).

I'm sure that the first 8x dvd recorders are P-CAV or Z-CLV and therefore take longer than 7 minutes to record one disc.

www.cdrinfo.com

Well, there have been some issues with cdrinfo during the last weeks. I won't tell more unless you ask me to because it would be very off-topic...

2 - "Having to write DVD-R/W & DVD+R/W every time you mean something generic for recordable DVDs is just really annoying..." - You could just write dvd+r/w !!!

What about DVD±R/W?

[Doom9]

where do I find the plusminus sign on my keyboard? you don't want me to go to the special characters list every time ;)
Think about it from this angle: People know what CD-R is. People know what DVD is. So.. DVD-R becomes recordable DVD for people who haven't studied the format. Those that have should learn about the difference in the process or can ask here.

[luciana]

Hi !
Doom9 has been known for the quality and precision of the information it presents. It should always be like that!

Your point of view is just unfair to +r format.

[padre]

Your point of view is just unfair to +r format

You obviously are missing the point. Most of the posting of information and instruction are provided by USERS of this forum. And accusing Doom9 of being unfair because he doesn't put DVD-R/W & DVD+R/W in every post or article about DVD recordable technology or media is just silly.

We understand you bought and are happy with DVD+R/W. Congrats. I bought DVD-R/W and I'm happy as well. But I'm not going to moan and groan about the 'lack of DVD-R/W announcements'. I'm going to use it, learn from people's experiences on this forum and take a pill....oh, that wasn't meant for me.... :)

[alexnoe]

@Doom9:

± is Alt+177 here. Should be possible to memorize...

[thxtof]

Originally posted by alexnoe
@Doom9:

± is Alt+177 here. Should be possible to memorize...

It's actually alt+241 ;)

[alexnoe]

For me do both of them work.

[thxtof]

Hmmm that must be have something to do with German keyboard or something then... just kidding ;)

The official ASCI table says:
http://www.asciitable.com/

So with alt+177 you should get this funny char: ¢Æ

Well why don't we stick to DVD-R :D I'm afraid we are getting out of the limits of this forum...

[alexnoe]

Your "2nd" funny char is nothing else than danish/norwegian "ä" (similar to french è).

I can make a Ç (alt+128), but on this forum, the small one, which usually us alt+135 here, doesn't work :(
The Euro-char (alt-gr + e: ¤) is displayed correctly here, but shows as a strange sign on some other systems :confused:

BTW: I wanted a nested list in the Pioneer FAQ, but this forum doesn't support that either.

And the server should be upgraded: It sometimes takes 60-90s to show a thread, and my 100 MBit connection surely is not the bottleneck.

[alexnoe]

Your "2nd" funny char is nothing else than danish/norwegian "ä" (similar to french è).

I can make a Ç (alt+128), but on this forum, the small one, which usually us alt+135 here, doesn't work :(
The Euro-char (alt-gr + e: ¤) is displayed correctly here, but shows as a strange sign on some other systems :confused:

BTW: I wanted a nested list in the Pioneer FAQ, but this forum doesn't support that either.

And the server should be upgraded ;) : It sometimes takes 60-90s to show a thread, and my 100 MBit connection :rolleyes: surely is not the bottleneck :p.

[Doom9]

And the server should be upgraded would you like to pay for it?

[alexnoe]

:D

btw we have the same problem on cdfreaks :angry: Not up to 90s, but still annoying if there are more users on it than average.

[Doom9]

I just checked the stats... 33gigs last month and we're bound to break that record this month. Slowly but surely the forum is catching up to the site.

[luciana]

Doom9 shurely wil find his ascii caracter.

I just went to my town hipermarket where there is a "Worten" megastore for hi-fis, refrigerators, etc and a Vobis store. I think you may know vobis because it's a german group.
1 - In the Worten, they only sell the standalone DVD recorders from Philips
2 - In the Vobis, they only sell the DVD recorders from HP - the dvd200i and e.

After searching for a while, i asked in both places if they had dvd recordable disks, since i only found out DVD-r, DVD-rw, and DVD+rw discs.

ANSWER in both places: But Sir, the -r are the only once disks for these drives !!! You may buy them at will because they will function !!!

Conclusion: You may think that they are bad professionals, but if even you aren't strait and exact on the subject, then who will ever be ? You shurely must imagine that at least 70% of people who buys an hi-fi never read a technical magazine.

Cheers !

[alexnoe]

You may think that they are bad professionals,

I've never seen any professional in any store, neither do I suppose them to be :devil: ...so this report is not a real surprise to me.
Ask them for the difference between multi-speed, high-speed and ultra-speed cd-rws and which cd recorders can use them, and you'll see again that they don't know anything.

I'm sure that at least 50% of the forum users here know more than these "professionals" :D

[Xesdeeni]

How about using DVD*R/RW for both formats? :-)

Xesdeeni

[luciana]

http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvd.htm

[Doom9]

I got the hint even before that.. several of my faqs and glossaries need updating (but I have no time). I've changed the description of that forum and the one guide that had a DVD-R in the title.. but I must warn you.. when people get confused I will put all the blame on you!

[luciana]

(but I have no time).

If i can help in any way, no problem...