virtualdub modification for ogm?

[alky]

there seem to be quite a lot of people working on muxers, splitters and stuff... is tehre a project or anyone working on something like nandub for ogm?

this would solve (if working :P) a lot of probles one could encounter when using ogm instead of avi and it would be all in one good tool...

?

alky

[Neo Neko]

There are some problems that Avery percieves on this issue. Otherwise he would do it himself. Though anyone else is free and more than welcome to try. On the other hand Avery has said in no uncertain terms that he want's MCF support as soon as the format is stabliized. Most of the video in OGG problems arrise because everyone thinks only of Tobias's implimentation. It was the first. But there are others now. The source is out there for those wo look and know how to use it.

[Pasqui]

You can give an attempt to Suiryc's mod :
VirtualDub&OGM (http://membres.lycos.fr/suiryc/vdub.html)

Pasqui

[Neo Neko]

He's up and relocated! http://cyrius.bunkus.org/

[Suiryc]

:)

I modified a little my sources since last time because I found some cases where VirtualDub would loop with no end :(
Now I wonder where was my mind while coding some parts of the modifications and also how the .exe didn't crash while testing it ;) ...

I will put the last version on the site soon.

[Triggerle]

Cyrius,

Just a quick note:

Since your VirtualDub OGM modification is based on the original VirtualDub sources you are violating the GPL by offering it under a different license. In particular, you may not remove (your Freeware statment) or add (your distribution conditions) restrictions.

The same may apply for your command line tools if they use code from VirtualDub.

VirtualDub's GPL: http://www.virtualdub.org/gpl

More info about the GPL: http://www.fsf.org/licenses/licenses.html

Please don't take offense at this note. I have no interest in causing you trouble...I'm just pointing out a potential problem.

(edit:) If Avery Lee has given you the rights to distribute the way you do then you can ignore everything I wrote above. The copyright holder can re-license his stuff anytime.

[Suiryc]

First I am not a lawyer and some of the terms in the licenses may remain difficult to understand (I mean understand all the cases that cover the terms), so maybe you can help me here :)

What do you mean by "another license"?

For the modification of VirtualDub I left all the copyrights (of course) in the source files, and I didn't add any on files I added in VirtualDub (first because not enough time, then because I didn't really know what to put inside regarding the situation, i.e. for trying not to violate the license in fact).
On the site and in the txt file I specified this is a modified version (and so not to send bugreports to Avery Lee because he surely won't be happy ;) ), and I gave the copyright and a link to virtualdub website so that people know what is VirtualDub, and what they can do with it (regarding distribution, modification, ...).

Well the "restrictions" (which are not to use this work/modifications for selling) apply on what I did (maybe I should be more precise on that) since I cannot do anything regarding the original code (VirtualDub).

To summarize, what I want is : users can do what they want with those programs (the tools) / modifications (VirtualDub) (but following the original license for what comes from VirtualDub), except use part of my work for selling (the "restrictions" I added).

So according to you what should I tell? (when the program use some parts of VirtualDub, or when the program is a modification of VirtualDub)

If anyone else have the answer please tell :)
Thanks.

PS : sorry for my bad english :(

[Sigmatador]

Good job Suiryc
here there is a hack of virtualdub including the audio menu of nandub
http://virtualdubmpg2.chez.tiscali.fr/
it could be useful (ogm often have 2 audio streams) but... THERE IS NO SOURCE :mad: (GPL Violation i think ?)

i hope for a subtitles menu :D

[Triggerle]

Disclaimer1: I am not an expert on the GPL (and not a lawyer) and would advise you to consult the links I have given in my previous post.

Disclaimer2: I have considered taking this into a private channel (for example email) but since there is no conflict between people involved I think the discussion can help educate other programmers in similar situations.

The GPL allows you to use the code in your project. It allows it only, however, if your project is also licensed under he GPL. Now the part that might be problematic with your project is that the GPL does not allow the kind of dual-licensing that you have in mind. Under the GPL you can't put your parts under one license and the original parts under the GPL unless they are completly separated. By statically linking GPLed code you are automatically required to place your derived work also under the GPL. This is made specifically to prevent people from ripping off the authors of the code (something you are clearly not doing, but others in the future might attempt).

Regarding the "other license" I mentioned: Your distribution restrictions (Freeware but may not be sold) actually constitute a license different from the GPL. The GPL does not restrict commercial use, which makes your restrictions not compliant with the GPL.

Based on my knowledge of the GPL what you need to do is:

1. Include a copy of the GPL on your web site
2. Place your application under the GPL
3. Remove your licensing (Freeware and commercial distribution clause)
4. Include the complete source (You already do this, I believe)

This whole license thing might seem complicated and puts some extra work on you, so I would understand if you are frustrated by having to deal with this. You should consider, however, that the GPL has been crafted very carefully by lawyers with the goal to eliminate any possibility of people ripping other people off their works while ensuring that users and developers can get the maximun freedom to use the application and code. Thanks to this careful crafting the GPL has been successful in promoting Free Software for many years now.

(edit) Here is a French version of the official GPL FAQ - I assume that French is your native language :)

http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.fr.html

[Koepi]

GNA, all these jerks just complaining about license, GPL and stuff, just because they once heard about a violation, and how much publicity it got. So now they try to fetch some publicity themselfes, so they can tap on their shoulders and say "_I_ discovered this BAD BAD violation of GPL! I'm so cool and so proud I destroyed the project!"

If the sources are free available i don't see a problem.

Period.

I'm going to strike everyone complaining if the sources of add-ons are free available, those people have nothing useful to add so they blow out this crap to fetch some readers.

STOP IT! Nobody wants this attitude of destruction. I for sure will stop developing tools if these braindead "but you're violating GPL because I'm too dumb to make up something constructive with my time".

I hate it.

Really.

VERY annoyed,
Koepi

[Doom9]

Since your VirtualDub OGM modification is based on the original VirtualDub sources you are violating the GPL by offering it under a different license.
We've had quote a number of these threads already, and they ALL degraded into flamewars. So, out of courtesy to the people who have to run around with fire extinguishers trying to calm down flamewars (that would be the moderation team) you should have contacted the author directly. Going public should ALWAYS be the last option. The court of public opinion is a very powerful one, however, you always take a considerably risk of ruining more than you could possibly gain.
So, before you publicly accuse anybody of GPL violations in my board try to resolve that issue in private! If I have a disagreement with another member I don't drag it out in public either, I try to resolve things on a pm/email basis which imho is the gentleman way of handling such issues.

[Suiryc]

I don't want to start a flamewar, really :(

Disclaimer2: I have considered taking this into a private channel (for example email) but since there is no conflict between people involved I think the discussion can help educate other programmers in similar situations.
I also think that this discussion could give other developpers some piece of information they may lack ...

Regarding the "other license" I mentioned: Your distribution restrictions (Freeware but may not be sold) actually constitute a license different from the GPL. The GPL does not restrict commercial use, which makes your restrictions not compliant with the GPL.
Well I carefully read everything on the page you gave the link.
And if I understood well, the "restrictions" I added are in fact ineffective if not "compatible" with GPL since final user only have to follow the GNU licence terms.
So I saw that people can redistribute (as is or modified) my work by making money BUT they have to give the source code if anybody ask.
In fact it seems the "not for selling" parts are of no use since the GPL will keep the source code available (I already know that, but you know it would be annoying for me to see other people just selling something that is free :().

So I will remove those useless restrictions.

Based on my knowledge of the GPL what you need to do is:

1. Include a copy of the GPL on your web site
2. Place your application under the GPL
3. Remove your licensing (Freeware and commercial distribution clause)
4. Include the complete source (You already do this, I believe)
Maybe you didn't downloaded my sources here.
2. It's done (the GPL text and all headers are in the source files)
3. As I said I will do that, since it's of no use
4. It's done
1. Well will do that too

I will also add the GPL text with the binaries (didn't know I had to do that).

Hope all that will be enough to stay close to what I wanted when starting developping those tools :)


PS : Here is where I am after having started developping my first real tools, wanting them allways free (thus the GPL), and having took some text (txt files that come with the tools) coming from other free tools ;)
Hope this could help other people in similar situations like mine :)

[Suiryc]

@Triggerle

I updated my site (and the downloadable compressed files) to reflect the changes.
I hope that now I am 100% compliant with GPL :)

Back to topic :

Originally posted by Sigmatador
Good job Suiryc
here there is a hack of virtualdub including the audio menu of nandub
http://virtualdubmpg2.chez.tiscali.fr/
it could be useful (ogm often have 2 audio streams) but... THERE IS NO SOURCE :mad: (GPL Violation i think ?)

i hope for a subtitles menu :D
The best would be to add "unlimited" multiple input sources (other audio or subtitles streams), but I have still work to do with my other tools, and VirtualDub is not that easy to understand and extend :(
The modifications I made till now seem to be "piece of cake" compared to what I just said above ;) (especially when it comes to synchronisation of the various inputs when writing).

BTW it seems another person is working on a "VirtualDub for OGM" version. This person contacted me at the very beginning to have a look on my sources (during the first 1-2 days of the site I hadn't released the sources yet).
AFAIK this person should be reliable and may produce a better version than mine ;)

[Suiryc]

Well it took me some time but you will now find on my site the latest modification of VirtualDub which can now process multiple audio streams.

So what's new :
- when the input file is an OGM file, this version process all the audio streams in this file (when asked, i.e. when "AVI audio" selected in the audio menu)
- you should be able to open other audio files as input (Ogg, AC3 or MP3) - those new inputs are only used when saving to an OGM file of course

See the ReadMe.txt file for more information.

Nb :
- for the moment you cannot specify your own comments (LANGUAGE, ...)
- only the first video stream and the audio streams are taken into account for an OGM file (i.e. subtitles are discarded if any)


Enjoy

[Suiryc]

I finally added comments supports.
So to sum up, here is what you can do with this version :
- open an OGM file
- save video and audio streams to an OGM file
- process video and audio stream (all audio streams when the input file is an OGM one)
- process extern audio files (.ogg, .ac3, .mp3) when saving to an OGM file
- use standard video options (compression, subsets, ...) on the video stream
- use your own comments (TITLE, LANGUAGE, ... : you can change the orignal ones if any or just add new ones) for each stream
- use the "Add operation to job list and defer processing"

For the comments I added some combo-box which will help you choose the most commonly used comment tags (TITLE, LANGUAGE, LWING_GAIN, ...), and a LANGUAGE value.

Enjoy :)

Forgot to mention that you can also import your chapter list (obtained using SmartRipper or chapterXtractor)

[The Link]

Just want to say thank you!! :)
For me the integration of OGM-Tools in VD was a reason to start using OGM!

Regards,

The Link

[MaTTeR]

Thanks for the new build Suiryc. Saving and defering process for later seem to be working great. I tried muxing a 44.1khz Vorbis file into an AVI and then saving it out as Ogg, the result was out of sync though. I muxed the same files with OggMux and it came out just fine. Just wanted to give you that report.

PS. Also, cutting a segment of an existing OGM file and saving it out also resulted in the audio being out of sync. Hope this helps.

[Suiryc]

Arrgh I hate synchronization :p

I will make some more tests then.
Is it a constant desynch (how many ms)?

How many channels, and what is the quality of your .ogg file ?

Thanks

[BlackSun]

woaw, strofun !
Well done dude !

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Suiryc
Arrgh I hate synchronization :p

I will make some more tests then.
Is it a constant desynch (how many ms)?

How many channels, and what is the quality of your .ogg file ?

Thanks

From the two tests I did, it appears to be a constant desync by about 200ms or so. The Vorbis file I added was 2ch at 44.1khz @ Q 2.5

I'll try a few more tests later on today when I return from work and then let you know the results. Thx

[alky]

thats great, and will bring ogm to a lot of new users! thankyou veeery much!

[inoteb]

Well, looks promising :cool:
I'm in a hurry to be at home to try that...
Have you planned to add chapter splitting support ? (when saving segments of an OGM)

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
Have you planned to add chapter splitting support ? (when saving segments of an OGM)
I already thought about adding such support (when saving only a portion of the clip) for chapters. But there is one case that may be hard for me to take into account : when you delete parts of the clip.
Now I am also putting Subtitle support, and changing some things to see if I can solve this out of synch problem ...

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc

I already thought about adding such support (when saving only a portion of the clip) for chapters. But there is one case that may be hard for me to take into account : when you delete parts of the clip.


The essential would be the support for splitting a movie in 2 or 3 parts (without deleting parts) and automatic timing change for chapters. In fact only what is already implemented in your Muxer/Cutter ;)

Subtitle support ? nice :D

Dumb question : when you'll have put all OGM features in VirtualDub, will you continue to develop your tools (OGMuxer & Cutter) ?

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
The essential would be the support for splitting a movie in 2 or 3 parts (without deleting parts) and automatic timing change for chapters. In fact only what is already implemented in your Muxer/Cutter ;)
That would be nice :)
But I'm not here yet ;) (and it's more difficult than in my tools :()

Subtitle support ? nice :D
At the beginning I decided not to implement this (especially because of the fact you can delete parts with VDub, which will give me extra-work to adjust the subtitles timings accordingly), but finally I put it ... (will see if I can easily do this extra-work ;))

Dumb question : when you'll have put all OGM features in VirtualDub, will you continue to develop your tools (OGMuxer & Cutter) ?
Yes (if bug fixes or new features are needed of course).
Because maybe I won't obtain same results (regarding out of synch problems, ...) with this VirtualDub than with OGMuxer/OGMCutter or OggMux.

[Suiryc]

I put the latest version on the site.
I fixed some internal "minor" bugs and added subtitle support (coming from the input OGM file, or from an extern .srt file). Seems to work when the start frame is not the first frame (but I don't think this will work when you delete some parts of the clip).

@MaTTeR
Can you try with this new version?
If there are still problems, could you use OGMInfo (with -v3 option) and send me the first 1000 lines of your input .ogg file, and also the first 1000 lines of your resulting .ogm file? Thanks.

[MaTTeR]

@Suiryc

I just tried the newest version from today and I'm happy to report the audio sync is fine when muxing. I muxed a 44.1kHz Vorbis into an AVI(XviD) and saved it out as an OGM. This particular AVI also had B-Frames.

Vdub does crash when I try to mux Vorbis into an existing OGM file created though. Same files as above only instead of the AVI file I had already converted it to OGM. Great work on the new build, things seem to work great.

I also encoded 5 full movies straight to the OGM container using defered processing and they all seem to to work just great when I tested them out this evening. Many thx!

[Ezzelin]

Now if only you could add Belgabor's Avisynth integration, we'd have the ultimate version of VDub...

[Rrrough]

combining the best AVS-editor (Belgabor's VDUB) with the best OGM-editor (Suiryc's VDUB&OGM)???

YES, PLEASE !

VOTE #2 !!!

cheers

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by Ezzelin
Now if only you could add Belgabor's Avisynth integration, we'd have the ultimate version of VDub...
Originally posted by Rrrough
combining the best AVS-editor (Belgabor's VDUB) with the best OGM-editor (Suiryc's VDUB&OGM)???

YES, PLEASE !

VOTE #2 !!!

cheers
Wishes granted and fulfilled ... What is next ? ;) :D

@MaTTeR
I fixed some other bugs. Maybe this time it will work when muxing an OGM file with another Ogg file ...
(PS : I tried it myself but didn't get any crash for the moment)


Hope I didn't forget anything in VirtualDubAVS ;)
I replaced VirtualDub icon by Spire's one (nothing against Avery Lee's one, but this other icon is also great :))

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Suiryc
@MaTTeR
I fixed some other bugs. Maybe this time it will work when muxing an OGM file with another Ogg file ...
(PS : I tried it myself but didn't get any crash for the moment)


Indeed your right, it seem to have worked just fine on a small clip I tested with. Man you work fast and it's great to hear the AVS mods are in place now too.

[ARDA]

Wishes granted and fulfilled ... What is next ?

JUST THANK YOU AND KEEP ON

Arda

[Rrrough]

THANX MAN, that was quick !

now we have THE video editor !
gonna test it right away !
Thanx so much !

:p cheers:p

[inoteb]

Great work Suiryc !
Looks like you will fulfil (almost) all our dreams... :D :D :D
THANX THANX THANX and keep going on ;)

[MaTTeR]

@Suirycm

I tried muxing a 448kbps AC3 with an existing OGM file just containing video. All seemed well until I tried to save it out and then it crashed immediately.

@inoteb
Have you had success with muxing AC3 in with the latest build?

Edit-
@Suirycm
I may have spoke to soon in an earlier post. I tried just cutting a segement out of a 988MB OGM which contained video only, when I clicked on the save button I got an instant Vdub crash. The video had no B-Frames, just standard XviD encode with Qpel.

[Aneurysm9]

I've had a similar problem as Matter. This is the first time I've tried this VDub version, trying to mux 320Kbps AC3 and a Vorbis track and it died as soon as I told Job Control to start processing.

[Kyo]

Thanks for this VERY GOOD piece of code!
keep the work Suiryc.

[inoteb]

Originally posted by MaTTeR

@inoteb
Have you had success with muxing AC3 in with the latest build?


Haven't tried yet. Will test that today or tomorrow and let you know...

[Suiryc]

@MaTTeR
Thanks I found where is this bug (hehe I never tested OGM file with only video ;), but before processing I try to access the audio stream ... which is NULL in this case and of course Windows is not very happy when you try to access 0x00000000 address :p ).

@Aneurysm9
Are you in the same case than MaTTeR (i.e. your input file is an OGM with only video) ?
If not, could you tell me if including your other files (AC3 & Ogg) seemed to work well (i.e. didn't stop before the end).

[inoteb]

I spent quite a lot of time testing the AC3 support of Suiryc's VirtualDubAVS&OGM (15.10.2002).
I systematically tested the final OGM files with TCMP4 alpha 29, ZoomPlayer 2.80 and WMP 6.4
I'm running under Win2k SP3 DX8.1b
Using OggDS 0.9.9.5 & SubTitDS 1.4.0.0

Here are the results :

First all all, what is working flawlessly :

# Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + SRT + Chapters + infos (title, languages, etc.)

# Save as OGM an AVI+AC35.1 file muxed first in NanDub

And that's all... but it's better than nothing ! ;)

Now what is not working :

#1 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 + 0ggVorbis (surround 0.400) + SRT + Chapters + infos
In all players Subtitles and chapters work fine but...
TCMP :
The 2 audio streams are superimposed and no way to select just one
InterVideo Audio Decoder display "AC3 5.1 ch."
ZP :
No image until I seek with navigation bar or jump to a chapter (???!)
The 2 audio streams are checked (no way to select just one)
Anyway, there's no sound at all ! (checking/unchecking "enable all streams" does nothing)
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 2 ch."
WMP :
No sound / No image
Can't seek with navigation bar
InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."

#2 Muxing AVI + AC3 5.1 first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as test #1.

#3 Muxing AVI + OggVorbis first (save as OGM). Then load this OGM file and add AC3 5.1
TCMP :
same result as #1 except sound is screwed by interferences and weird effects
SP :
same as #1 except InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch."
WMP :
same as #1

#4 Muxing AVI + Waved AC3 5.1 (made with Ac3Wav 0.01)
TCMP / ZP / WMP : No sound (InterVideo Audio Dec. displays "AC3 5.1 ch.")

#5 Muxing an AVI+AC35.1 file (muxed first in NanDub) with OggVorbis
TCMP / ZP / WMP : same results as #1

I hope I forgot nothing... and that it will help ;)
Sorry for being so long and boring but be sure it took you less time to read than it took me to run the tests and report the results in english :p :D

Cya !
inoteb ;-]

[Suiryc]

Arrghh :scared:

Thanks for the tests ;)

Could you also test one or more of the cases that don't work using OggMux (i.e. make an AVI with AC3 or Waved AC3 first so that it works) or OGMuxer.
Because sometimes I don't know if it is my tools that do a bad work, or if it is a problem with OggDS. For example when I mux video + 2*Ogg (exactly the same file) with OggMux, OGMuxer or VirtualDub, I cannot play the resulting file :(

Thanks :)

PS : when you use the Waved AC3, do you load it using "WAV audio" or as new input using "Show inputs" ?

[Aneurysm9]

@Suiryc

I was trying to compress the video and mux the files, using XviD 2-pass through the Job Control. When I tried it again I got an error message about a missing DLL (silya.dll or something like that). It worked fine for the first pass when I didn't use JC. I'm running the second pass now, saving to OGM with AC3+Vorbis audio and SRT subs. I'll let you know how things worked out after my property midterm.

[Suiryc]

I fixed some bugs (OGM file with no audio stream ...), and made some changes.

I modified source code so that there shouldn't be too much out of synch problems (for subtitles) when one delete parts of the original clip.
And now "Audio data" field in status windows (while dubbing) take into account all the streams other than the video one. This means the "Projected file size" is more "accurate" (but not yet perfect ;)).

@Aneurysm9
I will test doing a two pass process (maybe the first pass give problems to my routines, since it doesn't really produce a valid output stream).
Anyway I think a workaround here would be to do the 1st pass as usual (i.e. "Save as AVI"), then add the other input streams and use "Save as OGM".

[Aneurysm9]

@Suiryc

Yup, that's how I have it running right now. I did the first pass with "Save as AVI" and the second with "Save as OGM" Hopefully it will work that way. Thanks for putting the Ogg tools into VDub, it'll make my life much easier!

[inoteb]

Originally posted by Suiryc
Could you also test one or more of the cases that don't work using OggMux (i.e. make an AVI with AC3 or Waved AC3 first so that it works) or OGMuxer.
I've done that (see 2nd test of what is OK and #5)... or I misunderstand what you mean ?

Because sometimes I don't know if it is my tools that do a bad work, or if it is a problem with OggDS.
I've been making sereval tests about AC3 in OGM (and especially AC3+OggVorbis in OGM) since a few months, and I really begin to think the problems with AC3(muxed with another audio stream) support is due to OggDS :( I'd love to hear what Tobias thinks of that...

PS : when you use the Waved AC3, do you load it using "WAV audio" or as new input using "Show inputs" ?
"Wav audio" of course. Anyway it's impossible to load a .wav file using "show imputs" (only .ogg .ac3 .mp3 .srt) :p ;)

regards,
inoteb ;-]

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by inoteb
I've done that (see 2nd test of what is OK and #5)... or I misunderstand what you mean ?
Well my english may not be as good as I thought ;)
I mean use the same sources but a different muxing method (i.e. OggMux, or OGMuxer ... but OggMux would be better since I use the same things in OGMuxer and this version of VirtualDub ;) ).
Your second test of what is OK represents what you could use as input for OggMux (since it doesn't handle AC3 file directly).
Doing so we could see if the problem comes from the muxing way I use, or to another thing (OggDS or DirectShow or Windows or anything else) : if you experience the same problems with the resulting OGM file by using OggMux and VirtualDub, then it does not come from VirtualDub :)

"Wav audio" of course. Anyway it's impossible to load a .wav file using "show imputs" (only .ogg .ac3 .mp3 .srt) :p ;)
Yes I understand :)
But you can rename the .wav to .ac3 and use it like that.
I wasn't sure but I was thinking that you used "Wav audio" since (in theory) you should have obtained same results opening a normal AC3 or a Waved AC3 in "Show inputs".


In the latest version I fixed some things that could have caused problems with "normal" audio stream (i.e. the one coming from an AVI file, or from a WAV file), mainly due to the fact that WAV structure is not good at all for handling VBR streams ;)
So now things should work better (except you will still experience out of synch problems if your audio stream is a VBR one) in those cases because I switched back to the original behaviour of VirtualDub.

[Aneurysm9]

Well, it appears that VDubOGM did everything it was supposed to. I got a working OGM with video, AC3, vorbis, and SRT. Just that damn pesky problem with the AC3 and vorbis tracks both being rendered (though my setup results in the AC3 going only to the S/PDIF out and the vorbis going to the analog outs so I can switch between the sources at the receiver). Hopefully Tobias will find a way to fix the AC3+Vorbis bug in the next OggDS version.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
(though my setup results in the AC3 going only to the S/PDIF out and the vorbis going to the analog outs so I can switch between the sources at the receiver).

Is the Vorbis file 2 channels or multi-channel? I'm not so sure your have much luck sending multi-channel Vorbis over SPDIF if that's the intent.

[Aneurysm9]

No, I have 5.1 AC3 going out via S/PDIF and 2ch Vorbis on the analog outs. It is a shame though that there isn't a way to get multichannel Vorbis into AC3.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Aneurysm9
It is a shame though that there isn't a way to get multichannel Vorbis into AC3.

Well you could buy an nForce motherboard to do it in realtime :D Sorry, back on topic now.