DV capture with a/v synch problems...

[Prrime]

Hello...

I have been trying to capture video from a vcr to my computer using a sony dcr-trv27 and analog to digital passthrough via firewire. My computer specs are as follows:

Athlon 1.4
Abit kg7 (chipset= AMD761/VIA 686B)
512 ddr pc2100
soundblaster live
ati aiw 128
adaptec firewire card
two 40 gig 7200rpm hardrives (one master/one slave)
pioneer dvd as master, hp 200i dvd+r/+rw slave

I am using current drivers for hardware as well as via chipset drivers v4.38. Newer chipset drivers seem to cause problems with dvd reader so I don't like to use them. The adaptec firewire card uses drivers supplied with Windows Xp. I capture the video with the dv type 2 compressor to the empty slave hard drive with Pinnacle Studio 7. I have also tried Microsoft Movie Maker. Both capture programs yield great captures, but after about 50 min. of capture, the audio and video start to slip out of synch. Pinnacle Studio 7 does not report any dropped frames. I am at a loss as to why I am having this a/v synch problem. The home video tape that I am capturing from is a fairly new recording and plays back pretty well. My video captures get out of synch also when I capture from my vcr's tv tuner. I prefer to capture this way because the video is much better than when I try to capture from my ati aiw.

If anyone can give me some suggestions that might help correct this a/v synch problem, I would appreciate any input.

Thanks for your time.
Bill

[kayman]

might have somthing to due with your sblive , i hear the creative cards have a real problem with via chipsets.

kayman

[Prrime]

Well I installed an older Turtle Beach Montego II Quadzilla pci sound card that I had. Couldn't find any xp drivers from the manufacturer's website, but there were some default drivers that XP supplied. However, I still end up with the audio and video slipping out of synch. The captured video size is about 18-20 gig for an hour and a half of footage. Could file size be causing the synch problems? Anymore ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

[kayman]

no thats about rigth for file size i capped pilot of jeremiah a few days ago to DV and it was 20 gigs for like 1:30.24. i dont know what your prob could be though , but i did have to take my sblive out of my comp for my via mobo

[Prrime]

I wonder if it could be the dv codec that I have been using. I have been using Pinnacle Studio 7 and the type 2 dv codec is from Pinnacle. I did a fresh install of Windows XP and I installed the mainconcept dv codec. I'm going us MS Movie Maker to encode and see how the a/v turns out. One thing that I don't quite understand is that the MainConcept codec is supposed to be a demo that puts a watermark on the encoded video. I have tried it on some 15 second captures, but it doesn't put a watermark on the video. I can tell that the video has been encoded with the mainconcept codec because when I right click on the video file and go to properties it shows what codec was used. Anyway, thought that was unusual.

I'll reply back here after I encode a 90 min. video and update on the a/v synch problems.

[kayman]

i use aa pinnacle too , "pinnacle dv 500 dvd" i cap to the same filesi dont have any errors you should try these


make sure you install the latest 4 in 1
install the pinnacle pci latencty drivers
make sure you pinnacle card is in PCI slot 1 or 2 as these are unshard on most mobos but check your mobo manual to find out which are not shared

kayman

[Prrime]

Well, I just about give up. I don't know if I need to invest in a better firewire card or what. The one that I have is made by adaptec. I did install the latest via chipset drivers and I ran the PCI performance enhancer tool that came with Pinnacle Studio 7. The only thing I didn't try doing was to check what slot I have the firewire card installed in. I don't think its in slot one or two, but more like four or five. I will mess with that after I dig out the mobo book and see what slots share irq's. Trying out Mainconcept's dv codec didn't make a difference. I could capture from video tape in half hour or forty-five minute segments. I know that the a/v stays in synch this way, but its a little more of a hassle to do it that way. Besides there are going to be times that I want to capture from the vcr tv tuner and I don't really want to have to sit in front of the computer to start and stop video capture every half hour or forty-five minutes.

What do you have a for a computer system Kayman? I wanted to compare your system specs with mine. Thanks for all your input.

[kayman]

amd 1900+
512 megs of dddr ram
asus a7v333
100 gig dedicated capture drive
20 gig OS drive
pioneer a04
ati all in wonder radeon

[crjackson]

I have an almost identical setup as yours, and see the same effect after about 1 1/2 hrs capture. The problem (I THINK!) is related to the use of sony digital passthrough via firewire.


If it's a really important video capture wher av sync. must be perfect throughout, then I cap using my DC10+ card, render to AVI, convert with CCE, but the video suffers somewhat.

I wish I had a better answer for you because the DC10+ video quality is not as good as the firewire capture. I think my only perfect solution would be to throw more money at it and get a canopus capture solution to avoid the sony pass through.

Originally posted by Prrime
Hello...

I have been trying to capture video from a vcr to my computer using a sony dcr-trv27 and analog to digital passthrough via firewire. My computer specs are as follows:

Athlon 1.4
Abit kg7 (chipset= AMD761/VIA 686B)
512 ddr pc2100
soundblaster live
ati aiw 128
adaptec firewire card
two 40 gig 7200rpm hardrives (one master/one slave)
pioneer dvd as master, hp 200i dvd+r/+rw slave

I am using current drivers for hardware as well as via chipset drivers v4.38. Newer chipset drivers seem to cause problems with dvd reader so I don't like to use them. The adaptec firewire card uses drivers supplied with Windows Xp. I capture the video with the dv type 2 compressor to the empty slave hard drive with Pinnacle Studio 7. I have also tried Microsoft Movie Maker. Both capture programs yield great captures, but after about 50 min. of capture, the audio and video start to slip out of synch. Pinnacle Studio 7 does not report any dropped frames. I am at a loss as to why I am having this a/v synch problem. The home video tape that I am capturing from is a fairly new recording and plays back pretty well. My video captures get out of synch also when I capture from my vcr's tv tuner. I prefer to capture this way because the video is much better than when I try to capture from my ati aiw.

If anyone can give me some suggestions that might help correct this a/v synch problem, I would appreciate any input.

Thanks for your time.
Bill

[Prrime]

I'm back with an update...

I downloaded scenalyzer v1.4. This program will allow you to set the size of the captured avi file(s) that corresponds and works with the OS installed on your computer. When I first started using it, I left the avi file size limit set at 2 gigabytes. This worked for me because I knew audio/video stayed in synch when I recorded to smaller file sizes. Even though I could end up with 6 or 7 avi files by the time I was done capturing a little more than an hours worth of video all I had to do was use another program such as Pinnacle Studio 7 to edit these files and then combine them into one large video clip. Then I decided to set Scenalyzer up so that when I captured video via my firewire, it would capture to one large video clip instead of a bunch of small ones. I was surprised to see that audio/video stayed in synch. This was not the situation when I captured with Pinnacle Studio 7 or Microsoft Movie Maker to one large video file.

Scenalyzer seems to have solved my problems with the audio/video synch problems. I am still in the midst of doing video captures to confirm this theory. However, after doing 3 vid caps at a length of 1-2 hours without a/v slipping out of synch, I don't expect any other captures to give me this problem (knock on wood!!).

It sure can be a pain in the ass trying to determine if these kind of problems are hardware or software related, can't it!?! I could have wrongfully invested money in another capture card of some sort such as a different firewire card only to see that it wasn't the problem.

God I love computers!! :)

Prrime

[crjackson]

I also have scenalyzer v1.4. I think if you re-capture the very same tapes that gave you the problem in the first place, you will find they sill have the sync problem.

As far a I can tell, when you capture analog from a tape that has bad frams, the frames will be dropped and that's how it all seems to stay in sync. When you capture with the sony pass through, if a bad fram is detected it looks at the last frame, and the next frame and picks one to insert. After a long period of time, inserting duplicate frames adds up and causes a streching effect of the video, which causes audio to be out of sync.

I don't know any of this for sure. I'm only guessing here but that's what it feels like to me.

I can capture the same problematic tapes using scenalyzer v1.4, and I get the EXACT same Sync. spots that I have with Studio 7 as far as I can tell.

Test it out and tell me what you find...

[Prrime]

crjackson...

Can you post your computer specs for me. I want to compare your system to mine. I will do what you suggest about capturing video from my vhs tape. The captures that were staying in synch when I used Scenalyzer v1.4 were coming from the vcr's tv tuner. I captured Survivor last night using Pinnacle Studio 7. I started the capture approximately 2-3 minutes before Survivor was aired and ended it about 1 minute after Survivor was over. I had synch issues after about 55 minutes of capture time. Then I captured CSI using Scenalyzer v1.4. This capture included about 10 minutes of local news that followed CSI and when I checked out the capture there weren't any synch issues. However, Scenalyzer was set to capture at file limits of 2 gigabytes. Then today, I captured a little more than an hour and a half of music videos with Scenalyzer set to capture just one large video file without any limitations. This was where I noticed that the a/v was still in synch. I tried another video capture with Scenalyer for an hour and 45 minutes. Captured Tool Time, Rosanne and Friends from TBS. All episodes played back without any a/v synch problems. Tomorrow, I will capture from a video tape that I know had a/v synch problems when I used Pinnacle Studio 7 and Microsoft Movie Maker and let you know how things turned out. The video tape that I want to capture from is not all that old and the video quality is fairly decent. According to Pinnacle Studio, there weren't any dropped frames when I captured from this tape before yet there were a/v synch problems. We will see what happens when I capture with Scenalyzer tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. Besides the DV forum, you can reach me by email if you want to discuss any of these issues.

Prrime

[Prrime]

Yep, its true. I recapped the vhs tape using Scenalyzer v1.4 via firewire and analog to digital passthrough without any synch problems. When I used Pinnacle Studio 7 or Microsoft Movie Maker for this same vhs tape, the a/v slipped out of synch after about 45 minutes to 1 hour. Didn't have that problem whatsoever with Scenalyzer. I went right to the parts where a/v synchronization were very noticeable in previous captures and viola, no problemos.

This is great. Now I can continue backing up my vhs collection to DVD of my little girl who arrived into this world just a little more than a year ago (proud father speaking :)).

[crjackson]

My system for video as follows:

Abit KG7
Athlon 1.4Ghz
Swiftech MC462A HSF / Sanyo Denki 52 CFM Fan
AOpen HQ08 Tower
Antec TruePower 550w Power Supply
3 Sunon BB 80mm Case fans
512 megs Crucial DDR-Registered PC2100
AdvanSYS UW-SCSI Host
Pormise Ultra 100 Host
120 GB WD 1200JB SE
40 GB WD 400BB
iomega jaz 2GB - Internal SCSI
UltraPlex 40max CD ROM- SCSI
Plextor CDRW - 12/4/32 - SCSI
Pioneer DVD-106S
Pioneer DVR-104
VisionTek GeForce 2 GTS
Pinnacle DC10+ AV Capture Card
SB Live! Value
600w Fantasy-Amplified Speaker System
Belkin 4 Port USB Hub
NEC USB 2.0 4 Port Controller
T.I. OHCI Compliant IEEE-1394 Controller
MS Intelli Mouse Explorer (USB)
Epson 880 Printer (USB)
Epson Scanner - Perfection 1250 (USB)
Kodak DC240 Zoom - Digital Camera (USB)
Sony TRV-240 Digital8 - HandyCAM (USB/IEEE-1394)
MS Internet Keyboard
Gravis Game Pad (oldie but goodie)
USRobotics Courier V.Everything Ext.
NEC MultiSync 70 Monitor
Patriot 450 UPS
Windows XP - Pro

Perhaps you are correct. Try it on a tape that came out really bad using Studio 7. Capture for the same legnth of time on each and see what happens. I installed scenalyzer for the exact same reason but it didn't change anything for me. Perhaps I need to capture smaller files. Mine are usually 30GB when done. Sync issues are very slight and only at the end of a movie (a 2hr movie)for me (using studio 7). It's really not that bad here, but if I can eliminate it all together using scenalyzer that would be great. I prefer to keep the capture as one file, since I don't really know how to join several into 1 in studio 7.

I'm tired of fighting it. You dig at it for a while and let me recharge :-)

I've already converted about 40 VHS tapes and only 2 have had the sync problem enough to notice. I was able to correct the problem by capturing using my analog DC10+ card, saving as AVI (after edit/transitions), then transcoding with CCE. End result was just as nice looking as a firewire capture, but with PERFECT AV Sync. The only drawback is that it takes FOREVER to convert the edited file to the final AVI before transcoding.

When I capture with firewire, I can render the edited AVI in about 1hr. When I capture with the DC10+ it takes about 8hrs to render the final AVI.

Keep me posted.

[wildaces]

You may not believe me if I tell you the answer but here it is-take it or leave it.

First of all I had the same problem about a year ago. I had a 2.4g laptop using Windows XP Pro. I bought an external dvd capture device that just seemed to lose audio/video sync after 30 minutes. I just couldn't figure out what the problem was since my friend who bought the same device works without any problem. His computer is much slower than mine yet he's able to capture just fine.

I mentioned this problem to another friend of mine and he told me that my problem is based on dropped video frames. He suggested that I stop using Windows XP Pro and instead use XP Home Edition. I questioned this and argued that XP Pro is supposedly superior to XP Home. He laughed when he told me that XP Pro is superior only when it comes to networking and not when it comes to games and multimedia. Apparently XP Pro uses more of its resources to networking as compared to gaming or multimedia.

I didn't believe him at first, so I checked my other friend's computer and and there it was, he's using XP home.

I immediately when looking around for a copy of the home version. I tried capturing again using the new OS and the result was stunning.

I am now using the Multimedia Center Edition at the suggestion of my buddy that it allocates more of its resources to multimedia much better than the Home Version. I tested this by capturing a 12 hour satelite movie without any drop frames.

just make absolutely sure that you don't disturb the computer by multi-tasking, screen savers, anti virus, etc.

There you go. Hope this solve your problem.

[belunt]

I'm going to have to give this a shot, I'm currently running Pinnacle 9.3.5 on Win XP Pro SP2 & have been getting the a/v out of sinc problem myself. I really wish there were a different program I could try to capture with first before switching operating systems, but at this point I'm willing to give anything a try?

[wildaces]

I have tried using Vegas Video, Ulead Media Studio Pro, and Pinaccle video captures and they all worked without dropping frames. As I said the Home Version works out Ok but the Media Center Edition works out even better.
BTW the Media Center uses 2 CDS- first time I seen on any Windows OS.

[Mug Funky]

whoa, this tread's OLD :)

there's several reasons a VHS cap will go out of sync. any one could be the reason:

- you're grabbing audio with a different device (sound card) than the video (DV box). these have different wordclocks, and thus run at different speeds (48000 isn't ever exactly 48000).

- the tape is stretched and the DV device isn't compensating for it. this is the most likely problem, as usually when people capture in DV they do audio and video with the same little box (canopus ADVC 110 is pretty good). analog TVs are very forgiving, and can go off the base framerate by quite a bit if the tape is giving it video at the wrong speed. however, the DV box will simply recognise a "frame" as a certain number of lines with sync info at the sides and top. everything it captures will be placed in a file that says "25fps" or "29.97 fps", regardless of the actual rate it plays. the audio however, will be digitized at 48000 regardless - there's no sync info in audio, and the DV box will just grab 1920 samples and call it 1 PAL frame.

a clever DV box will see the discrepancy between audio and video and add or drop audio samples to keep up. depending on how the device is configured it may not do this though. however, unless they're REALLY clever and do resampling of audio, you'll get a stream that's full of clicks... click/pop filters are good for this if you have a program that does it (nero and EAC i think do it, i use cool edit/audition though).