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sillKotscha
5th September 2002, 22:02
Interesting article on MS and pirated keys:

Windows XP and Service Pack 1: Why The XP Keygen Won’t Help… For Long ;) (http://pages.prodigy.net/br0adband/Windows_XP_and_Service_Pack_1.htm)

cheers Sill


update... it's not my opinion !!

Mrafrohead
5th September 2002, 22:56
One thing that the article fails to mention though...

If you don't update, you don't have anything to worry about...

Personally, the only thing that I will ever use XP for, is to play games on. That is all... I keep a firewall installed on it to ALWAYS block ALL outgoing anything...

I trust XP with talking home about as much as I trust Congress to do the right things in life... hehehehahahah, like that ever happens...

Newho - just thought I'd add this little bit...

I only use 2k for anything.. 2K will be my final OS to work with I believe...

After 2k, it's time to learn Linux/Unix...:devil:

sillKotscha
5th September 2002, 23:07
Originally posted by Mrafrohead
After 2k, it's time to learn Linux/Unix...:devil:

you're definitly right here!!

Herske
5th September 2002, 23:12
Since sp1 will be out *oficially* on 9-09, I think the article is FUD.

NeVeRLiFt
6th September 2002, 02:50
http://www.modemnet.net/articles/reviews/08242002-001.php

http://www.lycoris.com/products/

http://www.lycoris.org/forum.php


I think I have found the Linux Distro for me ;)

Neo Neko
6th September 2002, 07:42
It's Linux XP! ROTFLMAO! :D

I told people it was coming. But noooooooooooo they would not believe me. :sly:

Guess we can quit waiting for Microsoft Linux. And damn it is even affordable! Microsoft should learn from them. Install on 2 systems for $29.95!

Doom9
6th September 2002, 08:09
though as usual.. my hardware isn't supported. Nothing new here.

And did you notice the discrepancy between the XP/OSX - like desktop and the KDE style menus? It looks like two different desktops have been merged. And they rely way too much on standard KDE tools (as an example: kpackage is a major pain in the ass, and people will just love it when they try to install a 3rd party rpm and get a dozen dependency errors which they cannot understand - though that's a general linux problem and nothing specific to this distro... software installation needs a major rework imho.. you cannot inconvenience a desktop user with dependencies but in linux everything depends on everything:) And the software download system reminds me of lindows.

Back to the topic though.. I doubt MS can afford to deactivate any Windows, be it an illegal copy or not. Why? Imagine them disabling a legal copy because of some screwup, or even a whole series in a company that uses a VLK. Can you smell the lawsuit? Or what if a keygen turns out a key that's in the d-base and then the owner of that key tries to activate his XP. What will happen? And no matter what will happen on the 9th, there's still Windows Catalog as the article mentions. I tend to think that MS' goal with SP1 is just to cut down piracy by the "dumb" pirates down again and they may just reach that goal.

sillKotscha
6th September 2002, 20:09
Originally posted by Doom9
Or what if a keygen turns out a key that's in the d-base and then the owner of that key tries to activate his XP. What will happen?

well, that's tricky but not insoluble (http://www.mwright.plus.com/xp.htm)

mean
8th September 2002, 09:49
Originally posted by Doom9
though as usual.. my hardware isn't supported. Nothing new here.

... kpackage is a major pain in the ass, and people will just love it when they try to install a 3rd party rpm and get a dozen dependency errors which they cannot understand - though that's a general linux problem and nothing specific to this distro... software installation needs a major rework imho.. you cannot inconvenience a desktop user with dependencies but in linux everything depends on everything:) And the software download system reminds me of lindows.



A bit off topic, but...

That's not completly true.
It is true for rpm only package management (as for dpkg only)
And it is hellish.

But, if you use apt (debian), or urpmi (mandrake) or apt4rpm (all rpm based), it will solve all dependancies for you and even fetch the required missing packages on the web/cdroms on its own (and ask you first).

There is even graphical front end for most of them.

</off topic>

Doom9
9th September 2002, 23:00
@mean: then the lycoris devs should've written a nice xp-like frontent for one of these systems instead of relying on krpm, wouldn't you agree? Dependencies are imho one of the major problems linux is facing when making the step to the desktop. All programs are interconnected in 20 different ways and while it's nice not to have to rewrite something that already exists is makes things really complicated when you actually want to install something. I tend to think that a base linux installation for a desktop containing a baseline of tools that will be available in every distro and around which programmers can write their desktop programs would be a nice thing to help make linux more popular (and of course every serious linux programmer is now going to hate me for all eternity for suggesting something so un-developer-ish).

as for xp keys.. I have tested that whole deactivation story first hand.. and a key-changed d**..**n release with applied SP1 (official download from Microsoft) is still working after getting the latest patches from Windowsupdate. Since SP1 is officially out now there's no hiding behind the calendar. Though since SP1 actually refuses to install if you use one of the leaked keys (that's verified, too) they may already have reached their goal. Many unsuspecting pirates will find their way to the local software store upon realizing that their upgrade path has been barred.

wmansir
10th September 2002, 07:21
I always wondered why MS didn't keep (or at least use) a dbase of valid keys in combination with the product activation scheme. This approch has been very successful for game systems like WON in combating pirating of multi-player games.

blixi
12th September 2002, 13:03
@doom9 and others:
Lycoris/Lindows is totally(technical/security) shit. I tend to say you have to learn the linux way of doing things, cause its more powerfuel (but to more complicated).
So using a main Distro like Mandrake Linux, Debian , Red Hat and keep in mind it's Linux will convince you more , then to expect Linux will work as a win-clone and get the worst of both worlds ...

@doom9:
For solving the problem you mentioned there is the linux standard base (LSB) there is written down, which lib in which version has to be on which places. So you have at least a minimally well known environment you could build for (at least this is important for comercial stuff, not for free software).
the next thing I want to mention is that people here aren't typical desktop user, so a lot of the people wont have much difficulties with workin on linux, except there aren't so many possibilities of converting videos like on win. (didn't found an acceptable mpeg2-encoder for making svcd's)


sorry for being OT

Doom9
12th September 2002, 14:32
we should turn that into a linux thread ;)

Which distros are really based on the LSB? When I install RedHat or Suse I'm bombarded with a zillion of packages. While I can still handle those the average user definitely can't. The way windows does it is a pretty good choice for inexperienced users, and if you're an 3l33thaX0r you should be able to switch to cli mode (hell.. a true geek makes his own distro;)

I refuse to believe that it shouldn't be possible to make Linux simpler. Choice is only good if the user can't handle it... and the average desktop user's knowledge is one million times too small for the easiest Linux distro. It doesn't do nobody any good to require that people learn it the hard way... how long have I (in vain) tried to get people to use vStrip when it was the best solution? Only now that DVDDecrypter has all those nifty features nicely packed are people replacing their SmartRipper. That little example should show you that asking people to learn more is not the way to go. I'm fully convinced that you can combine reliability and security of a Linux system and usability of a Windows system without sacrifying anything important (except the pride of the "we hate Microsoft" linux geek community). If Linux developers were a bit more courageous and wouldn't listen to the MS hate tirades of their hardcore fans I'm convinced that we'd get a Linux distro that offers the same or better usability than Windows without the drawbacks. What I find most frustrating is that every time I dare to suggest that a certain program be changed to make it more user friendly and cite an example from the Windows world people just start to walk away. The Windows crowd doesn't care much as they have their OS, and the Linux crow is just too stubborn to accept that being developed by Microsoft doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Microsoft makes good use of ideas that others came up with, why not use Microsoft's good ideas for the benefit of another operating system? What's so fundamentally wrong with that? What am I missing that I cannot understand that way of thinking?

mean
12th September 2002, 16:08
Mandrake is LSB compliant. Probably debian/suse and redhat too.

You should try apt or urpmi (debian/mandrake).
You will see that it's even simpler and user friendly than on windows.

Want php ? : apt-get install php4 (urpmi php4)
it will handle it, fetch it and install apache if not already done.


It can even upgrade the whole system automagically (without checking for your serial number).

Like windows update, but for all installed applications too.


(Plus there is really good multimedia player like mplayer.)

Joe999
13th September 2002, 06:59
I have to agree about apt/urpmi, as long as they have a graphical front end on top of them. I love synaptic for apt, aside from the (to me at least) rather ugly appearence of the widgets. I like rpmdrake as well, for urpmi. But on that I only wish they made the updating a little easier for individual packages. Say having an update option next to updateable rpms, or allowing updating rpms by clicking on them in a file manager like can be done for instalations of individual rpms.

In terms of functionality though, I've been very happy with both of them.I don't think anyone would have much problem picking up urpmi or rpmdrake as long as they have access to a large software repository. It's too much to ask people these days to go to the command line, but I don't think the causual user would ever have to with either.

TactX
13th September 2002, 10:17
Originally posted by mean
(Plus there is really good multimedia player like mplayer.)

And other nice AV-stuff like for example AVIdemux ;)

blixi
13th September 2002, 12:37
I use Mandrake for every-day-work. Just for video en-/transcoding I use sometimes winxp, cause of the drawbacks I've wrote above. Without examples of what you say it's quite hard to argument against your opinion. For sure , some applications could be more userfriendly on linux but often it is quite simpler to develop/use a linux-app the unix way. I love the philosophy of having small tools, which I can can combine with pipes however I want, but this is something for the experienced user, and a normal user have to learn a lot, to use linux that way. So I think such suggestions to do it like windows do isn't always the best way, but sometimes easier for (ex)windowsuser.

videotranscoding isn't simple on linux because there are several drawbacks there:

transcode sucks, its slow as hell, but you can do nearly everything with it

mencoder is really fast, but you cant mux 2 audiochannel in an avi and it is quite hard to split an avi to put it on 2 or more CD'S.

there is no (working) way to merge 2 avi's

and a lot of other things, that making everyday-use of linux on videotranscoding really hard. Otherwise it's really nice to rip a dvd without having a lot of space on the drive, just transcode it direct from dvd really fast an in excellent quality (mencoder)

I think the discussion will be endless. So let me say, that dvd-rippin on linux is on the very beginning, and I would love to do that on linux. It is really nice that koepis OggMux is Open Source now, vStrip is GPL to so this should be used a lot more (where can I askin questions on compiling vStrip for linux by the way ?) Mosu's work is really needed under linux ...

maybe this board can be used for asking linux-questions ;o)

Just a few thoughts

Blixi

auenf
13th September 2002, 14:15
Originally posted by Doom9
Or what if a keygen turns out a key that's in the d-base and then the owner of that key tries to activate his XP. What will happen?

Originally posted by sillKotscha


well, that's tricky but not insoluble (http://www.mwright.plus.com/xp.htm)

actually, if a user hasnt activated a XP Pro retail/oem/upgrade but it is generated by the Keygen, and someone has activacted it, windows will tell the real user to ring microsoft, and with 'proof of purchase' the XP support person will assign the user a new key, and flag the old key so that it is basically blacklisted.

the first part of that link you posted is only for getting into the activation dialogs with a VLK install, on a non-activated system, you dont have to go regediting ;)

Enf...

mean
13th September 2002, 20:03
Sorry for continuing the off topic.

Originally posted by blixi

And other nice AV-stuff like for example AVIdemux


;)

Originally posted by blixi


videotranscoding isn't simple on linux because there are several drawbacks there:

transcode sucks, its slow as hell, but you can do nearly everything with it

mencoder is really fast, but you cant mux 2 audiochannel in an avi and it is quite hard to split an avi to put it on 2 or more CD'S.

there is no (working) way to merge 2 avi's





You should definitly look at avidemux (freshmeat)

It can append avi, cut them and on the last version (waiting to be
approved on fresheamt) you can add a second audio track and cut the video + the 2 audio tracks at the same time.

The GUI is (blatanly) inspired by virtual dub, so you should not be lost.

Shayne
14th September 2002, 00:38
The key lies in the corporate keys mircosoft has to release corporate editions that can be installed and able to be upgraded on any number of machines. This is independant to the fact that microsoft wants you not to be able to upgrade if you upgrade your graphics card.

With regard to the comment ............ will send alot of pirates to the software store

I really dont think the good ones and i do believe that no one group of people, even microsoft, can cause the programing world of the internet (the world) to much problems. Time will tell.

Thats why open source is the way of the future i truly believe.

Sephan
14th September 2002, 02:32
This site here has lots of good info on what this thread is discussing.


http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=guide&dId=350

lordbelial
14th September 2002, 03:55
Just want to put my 2 cents in. I appluade MS finally trying to crack down on piracy. Game companies have been doing it for years. But sorry. To little, to late. It only took me about 30 seconds to find a new valid CD-Key for the corporate edition w/ SP1. Come on MS, make it a challenge for us.