Comments on a possible system ill build

[Crucio]

i would like some criticism and stuff :) thanx im new to computer building. I would like this to be a capture and editing machine

first off, the R658 motherboard from SiS. It, so far, has been the best ive seen, cause it supports AGP 4x and 8x and truly supports 1066rdram, also, it has lots of addon things

second, the 2.53 ghz 533 bus cpu, i know theres the 2.8, but thats $560!!! i heard the 2.8 has better electrical stuff or something, so should i get a cheaper 400mhz bus speed cpu, or the slowest 533bus untill the 2.8 or a higher speed drops in price, then get that?

third, hardrives, some ata133 drives, i already have them, maybe in the future, ill use scsi

im not sure of any really good cases under $70, so... help me out :)

memory, just some good 1066 rdram, any suggestions on how much ill need?

card- the new radeon, and a pinnacle for capture. Ill get those later, for now all i have is an aiw radeon, but ill upgrade soon after i get the processor

i have mouse and cd-roms and stuff. Anything im forgetting? Thanx for the help. Also, wheres the best place to buy online? googlegear?

latez

[Kb_cruncher]

not sure about places to buy or prices as i'm half a world away but have you checked out the abit board on this months Doom9 news.it has serial ATA and agp8X.not sure what ram it supports but from what i've read its a good stable board.

[Crucio]

i think that board is ddr, i want rdram, thanx though

[Rick83]

yeah, fine system!! but wait until the first of september: intel will lower the prices for the pentium 4 up to 68 percent!!

and when you have this system, you will see what real power is! ;-) *yeahbabyyeah*

[Crucio]

wow! thats a huge percentage :)

ill wait, im not even sure if the r658 is out yet, but i hope it will be soon.

i have to spend money on martial arts stuff anyways, i can wait a couple days :)

[Rick83]

yesss, i know, and i love intel for this ´cause i´m going to buy a new computer the next days... ;-))

[theReal]

im not sure of any really good cases under $70, so... help me out

Chieftec cases are pretty cool and not expensive.
http://www.chieftec.com/products/products.htm

I have the DX-01WD from the "Dragon" Series (it was formerly called CS-601) which is available in Germany for 64,- EUR. I guess it should also be less than 70USD in the States (without PSU, of course).

[Crucio]

that thing is huge, cool

[Crucio]

but 70 with no power supply?

[theReal]

For a cool and really good case, I think 70$ without PSU is ok.
Lian Li or Coolermaster cases are a lot more expensive (but not necessarily better).

[Crucio]

has anyone seen the R658 chipset for sale anywhere? It was supposed to come out in July, but i cant find it anywhere!

[Rick83]

no, sorry, i only found the new sis 648 chipset... ;-(

[manono]

Hi-

As for places to buy;

Googlegear is OK, but in my experience Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/index.asp?DEPA=1) is better. Right on the front page is the picture of a great black Chieftec case with a 400 Watt PS for only $79.

[theReal]

In the US you always seem to get computer stuff less expensive than in Germany :(
I guess it's because Newegg (for example) can sell to a lot more cutomers than any German store can.

[manono]

Yep-Volume-volume-volume.

Ack-they've changed the pictures. Now you have to go Here (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=304&manufactory=1502&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1) to find it, or you can get the regular beige version for $75. It's the one theReal mentioned.

[Crucio]

thanx!

ill try newegg

btw, the only reason i wanted a R658 is because it supports RDRAM and the new AGP 8x, do u know of any others that support both of those?

[manono]

Hi Crucio-

As near as I can tell there are no motherboards out yet that feature the SIS R658 Chipset. Strange, too, since it was announced more than a month ago. I can find boards with AGP 8X and DDR, and boards with AGP 4X and Rambus, but no boards with both AGP 8X and Rambus. That doesn't mean that there aren't any-I just can't find them. Shouldn't be long though.

[Crucio]

hmm, my friend is pretty smart and he just said that DDR is fater than Rdram?!

this isnt true, right? I mean they have 1066, he said in ddr there is something in the 2000's! Am i right in waiting untill the rdram boards come out? Or is DDR faster?

[Rick83]

No, DDR-SDRAM is not faster. Maybe DualChannel DDR400, but that´s far away from now...

RD-RAM with 1066 MHz is REALLY REALLY REALLY FAST. DDR-RAM with 333 MHz is REALLY REALLY FAST. RD-RAM with 800 MHz is REALLY REALLY FAST. DDR-RAM with 266 MHz is REALLY FAST. SD-RAM with 133 MHz is FAST.

Ok, so only DDR333 can be as fast as RD800, but I´d say never as fast as RD1066.

Buy RAMBUS and be happy! ;-)

By the way: why do you need AGP 8x? There´s no plus in performance... It´s the same as with UDMA ATA 133 - no need for this!

Ciao, Rick

[Crucio]

really? I do a lot of video encoding and 3d modeling, and the new apg8x radeon is out, or out soon, and i thought that would be a good thing to have. You think i should get an agp 4x motherboard?

[Rick83]

Of course AGP 8x is very fast, but as it is connected to the northbridge it´s limited.
ATIs new Radeon has got AGP 8x, but it runs with AGP 4x as well - and there are no differences... Only marketing! As I said, it´s the same as with UDMA133 - new hard drives only deliver 30-50 mb/s, so UDMA66 would be enough. UDMA133 is overkill. AGP 8x is - in my eyes - overkill.

And for video encoding: you don´t need a fast card for that, only the cpu, the memory and the hard disk drive counts (a fast mainboard as well).

I´d say you should buy a fine ASUS board (p4t533-c), this board is really good I think. And it comes bundled with 256 megs of RD1066 (as this new memory is hard to get on the market).

Ciao, Rick

[Dezoris]

Here is my my opinion.

1.)Serial ATA, not needed for another year or two. No performance benfits YET.

2.)ATA133 will not help you unless you are running a Raid 0/5 on 3+ HDs. The WDJB special edition ATA100 HDs are the fastest ATA drives currently for all purposes. Maxtor is the only drive on the ATA133 bandwagon, and it is not going to be accepted as a standard. Like I said in a non raid setup the Maxtors do not outperform the WDATA100s.

3.)AGP8x will also be untapped mostly as AGP4x is now, the cards out barely use up the bus now. By the time 8x will be tapped you will be looking for a new rig I promise you that. The 9700 will not be the only card that will kick ass, it will be out done in a few months

The Asus 533 i850e board is by far the best for the P4s right now. No BS gimmicks. Just proven benchmarked performance.

You don't need on board features, don't feed the mobo companies products for add-ons, buy the stuff from, other places and support the industry. Example, onboard raid.

Good luck. And don't buy a new P4 like the 2.8 get the 2.4/2.53 and overclock them, you will get those to 2.8-3.0 NP.

[Rick83]

Dezoris, you are absolutely right! ;-)

[Crucio]

everyone thanx a lot, this has really helped, im going to order as soon as possible.
btw, u said not to get the 2.8, yet i read it had better electrical stuff or something. Also, could i overclock the 2.53 to 3 with normal fans?

thanx

[Crucio]

also, should i go with the $194.00 2.4ghz or pay $50 more for the 2.53?

both are 533

[Crucio]

ok, so heres a new listing.

im going to buy everything from googlegear.com

*Asus P4T533-C i850E P4 (533FSB) Skt478 RDRAM ATX Motherboard w/Audio, S/PDiF Out Module Retail

*Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Processor (Northwood) 2.53GHz, 533MHz FSB, Socket 478 Retail

*2 Samsung Original Rambus 256MB 1066MHz 32Bit Memory (should i get klingstons? it is $70 more each

*Googlegear 601AE-400P4 Mid Tower Entry-Level Server Case Retail


so, hows this look?
thanx

[Dezoris]

Since you are a newbie, the asus boards max overclocking preset is 10% of the clock speed.

This is almost 100% stable. This will be the setting you will most likely use. If you want to overclock more you will be playing with manually adjusting the FSB in the bios, and raising the core voltage.
(This is all jumper free)

I don't asume you will be messing with that yet, and you will only use the Asus presets.

Which the max for the 2.53 is 2.783.
For the 2.4 is 2.64.

Since you are not overclocking the actually processor, because intel locks their clock multipliers the way the processors are overclocked is by increasing the FSB, which speeds the whole system up including upping the memory speed. I believe 1066 RDRAM runs at 500mhz so if you up the FSB by 10% to 146FSB your ram will run at 550mhz etc.
You get the point?

SO basically overclocking the processor is easy, but depending on memory and the board you choose and other items may hinder your abilty to raise greater heights.

If you want to get into manual settings great if not stick with the Asus pre-sets.


Here is my opinion on your choices, I don't think the extra 50$ should be spent on the 2.53, spend it on a good case. A great starter case is the Lian-Li PC60 USB case.
You would be amazed at how easy that case is to work with, removable hard drive tray slides out as easy as opening a door, the mother board tray slides out like pie, keeps things pretty cool, comes with 4 fans with fan control. Also there are other good cases. You will want a good power supply as well.
Generally Samsung is a better memory for overclocking, stays very stable.

Don't forget your graphics card as well that will be pricey too.

[Crucio]

thanx, ill try that