Rehuff for Vorbis

[TheXung]

There is an interesting utility for vorbis which optimizes the huffman tables so that a vorbis file is losslessly ~3% smaller. As we speak the discussion rages over at xiph http://www.xiph.org/archives/vorbis-dev/200207/0210.html

I've been playing with it a little and it indeed does work. However, when the optimized vorbis file muxed into video, it results in the same file size as the unoptimized file. I was wondering if this is a problem with oggmux, oggDS or just the nature of muxing.

I had to go through the trouble of downloading the ogg headers to compile it, so I figure I might as well attach the exec for people to try out.

[Jon Ingram]

I had to go through the trouble of downloading the ogg headers to compile it, so I figure I might as well attach the exec for people to try out. [/B]
Does this compile include the patches in this message (http://www.xiph.org/archives/vorbis-dev/200208/0026.html)? They are necessary to stop rehuff from outputting invalid streams.

[TheXung]

Yes

[DSPguru]

rehuff had been integrated within BeSweet 1.4RC6.

[ookzDVD]

@DSPguru,

So.. how to use the rehuff from the BeSweet ?
Can I use it with the OggMachine GUI ?
Or I have to wait 'til the next version of OggMachine ?

Thank you.

[DSPguru]

no gui support so far :(

you'd need to add -ogg( --two-pass ) in BeSweetGUI freetext entry.

[ookzDVD]

@DSPguru,

thank you for the info,
3% is not significant for me ;)

[unplugged]

Well

Why Ogg seeking sux so badly after rehuff? :)
Tried with Winamp 2.80 + in_vorbis 1.2 and any media player (that uses OggDS):
Ogg loses seek capability.
Just to inform, anyone noticed this?

(Besweet 14RC7)

[gnoshi]

I have observed the same problem.
I believe that is one of the things that has prevented rehuff becoming part of the standard ogg vorbis packages.
I have not yet found a way of resolving this, but no doubt someone somewhere is looking at the problem, and will come up with a solution sometime in the future.
At that point hopefully it will become part of the standard packages (which would be pretty sweet).

gnoshi

[unplugged]

update

When further muxed in Ogg Movies it plays and seeks flawlessly, probably the seek problem resides in the Ogg container created by Rehuff.

[gnoshi]

I'd test this but I'm in the office right now - but if someone else is inspired.
What happens if you get the rehuffed ogg, demux it, and remux it using graphedit (or equivalent). Does it counteract the size improvement; fix the seeking; anyone?

If no-one else has time to test this or wants to I'll give it a go tonight if my machine is working (damn them new motherboards).

gnoshi

[unplugged]

update 2

ummmm... :(

But now, I can't manage to split my big .ogm without "illegal operation" errors by Tobias' OggCut...
Again, I think that the (previous reuffed) sound files have *something* to do with this :rolleyes:.

Finally, I can only advise: Don't use this 0.0 alpha problematic tool :(

[canadian_fbi]

i used rehuff (--two-pass in besweet) just recently:

encoded fine.
saved some space.
played/seeked fine in winamp.
muxed fine.
played fine throughout the movie.

i didn't cut the ogm, so i can't comment on that, but i can tell you that i used rehuff with no problems.

[unplugged]

found the real problem...

it was one of the .SRT sub-titles inserted in my list (8 :D), that has too few entries (23) :confused:, all concentrated in the ogm's 1st part.
For some reason when I am going to split the 2nd part OggCut crashes, probably because that sub-title track results empty (no sub-title entries fallen in 2nd part).

The strange thing is that when I have modified the SRT to insert a little sub-title entry (just "." for 20ms) falling in the 2nd part... this didn't avoid the problem and OggCut still crashes.
Anyway, the 1st part can be splitted without error(s), the 2nd only without that SRT in the big main .ogm.

Of course, reuff-ed vorbis tracks works :) (and the *little* space gain is also equally noticeable in .ogm), sorry for previous post.
played/seeked fine in winamp.
This (strangely) never worked to me, I have Winamp 2.80 with final in_vorbis 1.2 but seeking doesn't work starting from 20% of file (as I move the bar after ~20% the file reach the end, sequential steps with arrows work...)

[canadian_fbi]

Originally posted by unplugged
This (strangely) never worked to me, I have Winamp 2.80 with final in_vorbis 1.2 but seeking doesn't work starting from 20% of file (as I move the bar after ~20% the file reach the end, sequential steps with arrows work...)
hmm, i just wanted to say that i experienced something like that tonight on a file about 45 minutes long. actually, at first it seeked fine, but then after seeking a few times it seemed to "break". i'll try muxing it in and see if that creates any problems; i doubt it will, but this is pretty odd.

p.s.: i have the same winamp/in_vorbis as you do too.