DV to Divx newbie

[el_sr_al]

Hi there:
I Have read with loads of interest some of the recent posts in this forum about converting from DV to DVD or Divx. I have sony IP7 that records to some type on mpeg2 unsupported by DVD2AVI and the like applications. Fortunately the software provided (movishaker, the slowest ever) allows me to save it to DV format for up to 9 minutes.
Before reading the postings in here what I was trying to do was to convert the DV format to Mpeg2 through TMPGEnc or avi2mpg2 and then use the SBC process that I use to Rip my DVDs to convert it to Divx. However after reading some of the threats in this forum I realized I could directly feed the DV streams into Nandub or Virtual dub.

Sorry about the long introduction and forgive my ignorance but is there a way of replicating the frameseving process that is done through DVD2AVi and VFapi plugin to Nandub for the SBC ripping method for Nandub? If the answer is yes, How? and if it is NO which other methods/way arounds would you suggest to convert the DV streams into good quality Divx videos. My objective is Divx, I wouldn't be interested in Mpeg2 conversion.

Thanks in advance.
El_sr_al

[theReal]

I don't know exactly what format your DV file is in - hopefully it's type 2, because then it has pcm wave audio.

You can open this avi through avisynth with the directshowsource command (btw should it not be a directshow-compatible file, then it must be vfw compatible and you can open it in VDub directly!)

Try avisynth - install it, write a text file:

directshowsource("c:\video.avi")

and name it *.avs

Now you should be able to open it with any application like VDub.
If it has no sound, you are dealing with a type 1 avi - then you need a program that can convert type 1 to type 2 (Ulead Media Studio can do, for example).
If you need to do a type 1 to type 2 conversion anyways, you can just as well install the Panasonic DV codec http://bokova.bokova.lv/~daliv/video/down/codec/ and save to type 2 with this codec these files are then VFW compatible and you can open them in any video program directly.

[bb]

Just wanted to add that you'll definitely need some filtering, because DV source is pretty noisy. I'm currently evaluating new filtering methods (see AviSynth forum).

There will be a DV->DivX guide soon on this forum.

bb

[el_sr_al]

Hi again,
it is definetely DV type2, because it has pcm sound. I already install the Mainconcept DV codec so that I could open it with Nandub/Virtualdub and I already used nandub to use 2Pass SBC conversion to Divx 3. But I was wondering if there is some different specific cconveresion that could provide better quality?
I was also wondering if it worth it to keep the 720x576 resolution or it would be better to resixe to 640x480? My objective is to show the converted videos on a Tv through a tv out card)

Thanks again
El_sr_al

PS:I can't wait for a guide on Dv to Divx guide

[theReal]

Better use avisynth for the frameserving - just open the DV file with
avisource("c:\xyz.avi")
if it's in vfw-compatible Mainconcept DV already. You should deinterlace the video for Divx compression and probably apply some filters to keep the size down. Avisynth is very good for that as well.
For keeping interlaced video, I'd rather use mpeg2 compression (at full size and higher bitrates, something in the DVD range)

If you know how to encode well with Nandub, this is probably one of the best ways for Divx. If you don't, you can use Gordianknot as a helping tool or use Divx5 to encode (that's what I do, I'm not a Nandub crack and I like Divx5 because of its b-frame support).

If size doesn't matter to you, I'd keep the full resolution and encode with fixed quantizers. If size does matter and you want to use lower bitrates, I'd resize to 640x480 and apply some smoothing filters.

[el_sr_al]

TheReal,
thanks for your comments, once again forgive my ignorance, but when you say I could use gordianknot as a support tool, do you mean I can load DV avi files directly to be enconded to DIvx 3 or 5? If this is right, how could/should I do that(I thought gordianknot could only load DVD2Avi projects)?
Thanks again
El_sr_Al

[theReal]

DV (vfw, type2) files can be directly encoded to Divx with VirtualDub/Nandub.

What Gknot does with d2v projects is, it runs them through avisynth and Vdub/Nandub. The same you can do with DV avi (or any other avi), but you can't use all of Gknot's features.
You can't load avi files into Gknot, but you can nevertheless use Gknot's Divx 3.11 stats file editor, the bitrate calculator, the resolution calculator and the compress test feature.

[el_sr_al]

The Real,
Thanks again, I understand now.
I have a question that nobody wherever I have posted has been able/willing to anwser.
My camcorder is a Sony Ip7 that records into this format called MICROMV by Sony. Although in almost single review of the product I have read so far they trick you saying it records in MPeg2 DVD compatible format, that's not true. Aparently from a review that I read somewhere else this Micromv format is: "MPEG2 Transport Systems which is completely incompatible with DVD MPEG2! There are no applications like Adobe Premiere that let you import Sony MPEG2 Transport Systems."
As I stated at the beginning of this post the software that comes with the camera let's you save into DV format for 9 minutes only.

I was wondering if there is any way around of this Mpeg transport systems format to deal with it as it was native Mpeg2 dvd alike format so that I could avoid conversion to DV and back to Divx so that I could convert from native MPEg2 transport systems to Divx?

I hope this long explanation makes sense and that I can finally obtain some enlightening comment.

Also apologies if this post is not considered relevant for this forum, I tried the New A/V formats with no luck a few months ago.
Thanks again
Alfonso

[theReal]

I didn't know Micromv, but it seems to be a new marketing strategy by Sony. What I found doesn't sound very good for you:

Sony is encouraging software companies to update their wares for MicroMV compatibility. But for the moment, only one program recognizes the MicroMV signal: Sony's own, rudimentary MovieShaker program for Windows. So, you have to wait until some companies jump in and make their editing software compatible.

btw. can you play those micromv files through Mediaplayer? If so, then there's a directshow filter for this format installed on your system and you can open the file through avisynth's "directshowsource()" command :)

[el_sr_al]

The_Real,
Thanks again.
No, I can't open them through WMP, I tried to use avisynth with direcshowsource but it didn't work. The only software able of playing the files once downloaded in the computer through firewire is Quick Time player 5 (appart from the editing software MovieShaker 2.1, Sony's own editor).
So I presume I got stucked and tricked in by the size of a €1800 camera. Well at least I can still use the saveas DV function till the remote near(ha!!) future where companies develope more sofware and filters that make it more usable.
Thanks again very much for your promt and valuable comments.
El_sr_al.

[bb]

If you have an MPEG2 transport stream, you might want to try some MPEG2 editors like M2-Edit (don't know if that works, though). I would also try PVAstrumento (by offeryn), but again, I don't know if that works...

bb

[el_sr_al]

bb that's excellent, a bit of light in my MicroMv darkness,
I tried PVAstrumento but unfortunately didn't recognize the video stream. However I downloaded the evaluatioin version of M2-Edit and BIIIIIIIIIIIIINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It recognized the stream as Mpeg2 transport and it gives you the choice of transconding it to video, or program MPEG2.
Can I ask what is the difference between the two of them??

Everything was good news till I checked the price of the programme ($695.00) I'll play with the demo version to see how it goes but I might have just to keep on saving my files as DV and then Divx them.
Unless you know of a cheaper source or of another freeware transcoder.

Thanks a million for such an enlightening suggestion bb, and thanks to The_Real for all the valuable comments.
Really thankfull
El_Sr_Al

[bb]

MPEG2 transport streams are usually used in transmissions like DVB broadcasting via satellite or cable. They have a different structure due to a different error handling compared with program streams. The latter are typically used on media like DVD or SVCD.

You can find more information at http://mpeg.telecomitalialab.com/standards/mpeg-2/mpeg-2.htm

bb

[theReal]

They have a different structure due to a different error handling compared with program streamsDoes that mean Sony's new MicroMV tapes possibly need a much better error correction than other media?

[el_sr_al]

The_Real,
I found a set of directshow filters in
http://moonlight.co.il/download/index.shtml?dl=mpeg2decoder

that now allow me to open mpeg2 transport system streams in WMP, I think finally I have found a way on encode directly from the source format recorded from the Sony IP7. So now I presume I should be able to use avisynth to serve Nandub/Virtualdub to Divx my MicroMv files.
Is that correct?

Thanks again,
a happy El_sr_al!!

[el_sr_al]

Ps.
the filter adds a little watermark logo on the top corner of the screen, but heh, who cares before I wasn't even able to open the files.

[theReal]

ah, moonlight :)
I'm using their directshow audio filter ("Odio Dekoda") for Divx playback - it's the only free directshow filter that allows 4-channel downmix of DD5.1 AC3 Audio.

You're right, now you should be able to open the video with "opendmlsource()" in avisynth. I think with avisynth 2.04 it shouldn't be a problem to also get the audio with it, older versions might have a problem with the audio of opndml sources.

[el_sr_al]

The_Real,
I cannont use Avisynth with the opendmlsource option but I can with the directshow one.
However, I'm having problems with the sound (even with avisynth latest version).The sound format is MPEG1 Audio Layer2(48kHz)(as per Sonys spec) How could I use the Moonlight mpeg2 demultiplexer to extract the audio?? Which programme should I use to this and how if is not much asking???
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!
Thanks again
El_Sr_Al

[theReal]

I cannont use Avisynth with the opendmlsource option but I can with the directshow one. That's what I meant but I mixed it up - duh! ;)

I have no idea how you to demux the audio if avisynth doesn't work for that, sorry :(

[el_sr_al]

The_Real,
I found out that TMPeg can demux the files when served to it with avisynth (I presume it is making use of the demultiplexer filter by moonlinght), so apparently all my problems are sorted now. Well I suppose now I'll have to find a way of optimizing my conversions (hopefully I wont have synch issues.
Again, thanks to you and BB for all the comments and suggestions.
a Happy El_sr_al

[el_sr_al]

Hi there,
All my assumptions in the previous post seem to be wrong.
Whenever I have tried to demultiplex the MicroMv video using TMPEnc (using Avisynth to provide the video source and giving the the MicroMv file itself as the Audio source) (the times that it has worked) I have obtained audio mp2 files of different lengths (first time 20 seconds when the original source is about 22 seconds, second tiime 21 seconds).

This has caused major synch trouble when joining the Divx video and the Mp3 audio with Nandu/Virtualdub.
Just to make sure that it is an issue with Tmpeg demultiplexing I did the same exercise with M2-edit demo version (max of 29 seconds of input video) and converted to mp3 with besweet and I had no synching issues.

So my question is/are:

Does anybody now of some other freeware/shareware software that would allow me to dempultiplex the Micromv source into mp2 sound file?

Or is there a way of using the Moonlight multiplexer/deplexer filters with other sotware so that I can extract the audio source correctly?

If this is possible, how is it done? Or can anybody point me to some source of info where I can understand how directshowsource filters work and how they can be called from other programs for sound demultiplexing purposes?

I HOPE that makes sense.
Thanks
El_Sr_Al

[bb]

Have you tried bbMPEG (available at doom9's downloads)? It's told to be the best multiplexer (don't know about demultiplexing, though). The GUI is a little strange, but well, it works.

bb

[el_sr_al]

Hi all,
I'm just posting this to thank everybody for its cooperation. Finally I managed to fullfil or my goals, so just in case and for future reference:

-Sony's MicromMv format is MPEG2 Transpor Systemas stream.

-It can be served to Virtualdub/Nandub through avisynth using the Directshow Filters available from WWW.moonlihgt.co.il (Elecard)
(a second possible option that I'm investigating at the moment is the use of the avisyinth plugin MPEGsource by NIC, with no luck yet, but we'll see)

- Through the moonlight audio Dakoda decoder and with AltMP (alternative media player available at http://timsara.freeservers.com/altmp.html
the audio can be extracted into Wav files and then converted to MP3 with your favourite convertor.

So once again thanks to everybody for all the help that solved my long time standing query/problem/frustration.

El_Sr_Al

[ulfschack]

It also should be "simple" to get Graphedit to do the job right. Just import the right DS filters (the ones that are in use when playing via wmp could be a good hint). It's a manual labor, but I've never seen GrahpEdit fail ... where other apps have.

cheers

[bb]

Just read that the new Pinnacle Studio 8 is the first video editing software with support for Sony's MicroMV format. Costs €99,-.

bb

[bracky]

Just read that the new Pinnacle Studio 8 is the first video editing software with support for Sony's MicroMV format. Costs €99,-.

I got all excited when I read this also. Well I've obtained pinnacle studio 8. I installed it. I read the readme and this is what I find.

6. MicroMV camcorder support
There are known problems with capture from MicroMV camcorders in this version of studio 8.

I'll be testing it out today to see exactly what those problems might be.

[bracky]

Well after some trial and error plus scowering the pinnacle forums I learn that micormv support in studio 8 does not function at all. They are working on a patch to fix the problem but it doesnt look like it will be anytime soon. :(

[bb]

That's bad news - and another proof of better not believing advertisements...

bb

[theReal]

You should be able to get the money back. You bought the software only because it was supposed to be able to edit MicroMV - it's like buying a car that doesn't drive...